Michelle Obama: Those Who Say: “I Ain’t Voting For No Nigger”

lynchings.JPG

I hoped it wouldn’t come into being. But, in my bones I knew this was coming. But, it was still like taking an unexpected gut-shot to the spirit.

I was at a Starbucks yesterday, not a normal occurrence for me. I mostly stay in the cave. But, as I’ve mentioned here on TMV before, I am trying to learn to draw. So, I went with my conte and pages to draw passersby out the window at Starbucks.

… and there at a table, four men were discussing the remark that Michelle Obama made about being proud of her country for the first time in her adult life…

Suddenly one of the four men burst out loudly: “I ain’t voting for no nigger!”

The entire Starbucks of all women patrons and wait-staff went into stop-motion. Silence. Were these guys miscreants, mentally-ill wanderers? No. They appeared to be just four businessmen, two middle-aged, two younger, talking out of their minds over their coffee cups, and laughing about ‘niggers.’

I sensed that if, “I ain’t voting for no nigger,” is said boldly by one person in a public place, by someone who rightly or wrongly feels no fear of confrontation or retaliation, then you can be sure, it is being said aloud elsewhere by thousands more.

Certainly there is much talk today about ‘what Michelle Obama’ said, and really meant. Many kinds of talk and opinion… various people have been discussing or debating or just flatly carrying on about what Michelle Obama meant or didn’t mean, and weighing in on her character, brainpower, heart, or lack of such, etc. (Her husband, later said she meant her words more narrowly with regard to the political process wherein people stood up for change.)

My thoughts however, keep returning to another matter entirely. I’m not new to scabrous words. This man’s outburst at Starbucks is not the first, but merely the elevendy-millionth time as a woman from a minority group myself, I’ve heard such or been felled by such words personally.

BUT, especially since being flash-shot by this man at Starbucks bellowing about “a nigger only gonna be president over my dead and burning body,” ….I rode the Time Machine back over the many decades I’ve be blessed to live thus far, and I see, with immediacy, how far we’ve come in this nation… meaning, that yes, any of us minority persons can be objected to publicly nowadays, and called names out loud, in print, in front of and behind backs….

but NOT immediately and with full looking away by all authorities and cronies, be dragged to the dark of the woods and dealt an ‘inch of one’s life’ beating, or death with finality, there…

when I count the changes of consciousness in law enforcement in many parts of our country, the changes in appellate court sight and insight, the plethora of ways eye-witness news is nowadays availed and delivered, the tireless souls who keep driving for justice for those unjustly treated….

then I am reminded for the uncountable-eth number of times in my life, that such as this man’s outburst at Starbucks, may in fact, represent progress.

Many of us wish, deeply, for FAR more than this kind of ‘progress’ for all of us on earth. But, I think strongly we have to also count even the smallest progressions. 5% here, 2.5 % there, .01% over there: They begin to add up to substance and movement. Some think ‘change’ is something that happens all at once. Most often not. Small increments, whole walls assailed by water time and again, give way. Water can and will wear through stone.

I don’t know that I can ever embrace ‘niggerspicswaztikajapwhiteykike’ talk as some mere cultural oddity. But I find it better, if such can be said, to see disgust and hatred and fear above ground in full daylight, even at such a usually phlegmatic Starbucks, than hidden and larded away in secrecy, wrapped with rage and viper’s breath, and acted out on innocent others in the dark.

Whether via the internet, in public places, or in private… I’d count this public marking of where levels of inhumanity still thrive, and in the most BANAL of places, as a significant veering away from ‘what once was’ considered the only option: The deadly one.

I grew up mere miles from where the KuKluxKlan was founded. It used to be Death of any person deemed insulting, unworthy, irritating, and/or expendable just for the fact that they lived, walked, spoke, thought as they do… all dispatching of persons by brutal means done in secret, undercover, away from ‘do-gooders’ and the ‘misguided’ who would risk their lives to intervene in such injustice.

Yes, it’s different now. Not secret. Easy to mark with red flares. Easy to note. Yet, still in need of vigilance.

Maybe it’s an ultimate irony that the screed-fest unleashed by some regarding Mrs. Obama’s words, perhaps poorly-fleshed out by her at the time… is actually an improvement, a seeming toothless one, over the immediate death sentence that used to be pressed on any outspoken person, poor white, black, Latino, or other.

Maybe at last a significant majority understands and holds to the idea, all posturing to the contrary aside, that bridges have never been made for hanging people, but that bridges are meant to hold both sides in even tension… so that people can cross to the other side, so that people can know and see what they have not known or beheld before… something new, something different, and hopefully something usefully good.

I know you’re maybe wondering what I said to the four men at the table. They were so close to my table I could have reached out and touched two on the shoulder. In moments like those, I think any sane person would have acted like I did. I thought, Why me, God? How come no one else is saying anything? Heartbeat, heartbeat. Then I thought, How do I know they aren’t going to beat me up outside? Heartbeat, heartbeat. Besides, I likely can’t change their minds about this or anything else. Then I heard my grandmother speaking to me: You can never tell outcomes; just speak.

I didn’t think anymore then. I just gulped and smiled sweetly and leaned directly toward the men, excusing myself, saying that I was sorry, but I couldn’t help but overhearing their conversation and I just wanted to make sure it was okay that I was sitting near them, for I have black blood, like most Latino Catholics who once were Jews from Moorish Spain, not to mention the African slave trade to the east coast of Mexico in the 1500s and 1600s.

Heartbeat, heartbeat.

The men stared me up and down. Silence.

Then, one man: You don’t look black.

I said Yes, there are a lot of people who carry black blood who don’t look like they do. I said, “But, we’re hidden everywhere. Especially in lighter-skinned people.” (I wasn’t going to say this next, but I could hear my grandmother goading me, Say it, say it aloud. So, I did…) “Like you and me, for instance…”

Your Dr E, I am afraid, went on then. On and on. Do you ever have those moments where you can’t stop speaking even though another part of you is going, stop stop, you’re going to get us in trouble….but there’s yet a strong imperative to speak, one way beyond the merely human…

So, I told the men words pretty close to these ……

You never know who is what. Why, one of my daughters was talking to me about mitochondrial DNA the other day and she said that you can now test the males of the family and find out all kinds of things about their blood lines, and it is becoming less and less expensive to do so, and soon, wouldn’t that be something, likely many people are going to be quite surprised about their actual bloodlines, but you know, maybe that will be helpful and bring us more together and….

The men squinted and kind of went blinkless while I was riffing, and suddenly they all seemed to remember they had a very important group appointment all the way across town and were late and they packed up their briefcases and took their coffee with them and actually left before I was done with my last sentence.

I don’t know, maybe words can act like an exorcism without meaning to. I packed up and left a minute after the men pulled away, just kept my eyes down and got into my pickup, thinking a little insanely, ‘my work must be done here.’

Was anything accomplished? I don’t know. Likely I’ll never know. But maybe 1% here or there, in someone other than the four men, maybe someone who overheard, but maybe one of the men in his right heart will remember a snippet of what was said years from now and it will be a blessing on him, or maybe someone who hears the story here….

All I know for now about Michelle Obama or anyone else, is, I ain’t voting for no good soul to go silent. Even when they have to call on extra cojones or ovarios from the angels in order to speak about what some deem, unspeakable.

________
Columnist Shaun Mullen here on the differing kinds of expression blogwise re Michelle Obama’s statement.

Also see Amba’s excellent commentary and wide ranging referencese to various reactions re Michelle Obama’s recently released undergraduate thesis.

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Author: DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

  • Peter_Allen

    I applaud you telling them what for. I don't think that I would have been as polite.

    I agree, progress has been made. Every day, we get a little further, and the bar can be set a little higher for the next day's goal :).

  • DLS

    Where (metro area or part of state) did this happen? Front Range?

  • StockBoySF

    That is great! Thanks for speaking out. Have no doubts- there will be something positive come out about it.

    And yes, I do have moments when I go on and on, especially when I feel strongly or if there is some injustice done.

    Thanks again and I'm really proud of you and all who speak out against such bigoted and demeaning comments.

  • EEllis

    I really hate to call a persons honesty into question. That being said I live in Texas. Houston is one of the most diverse and open places you can find but there are places in Texas where they are not so progressive. I can not think of one place where you can go in Texas and walk in to a coffee house and think for one second that it is in any way acceptable to use that kind of language. No matter how racist someone is they damn well know most people don't want to hear and won't put up with that kind of crap. Maybe if you live in some all white area you might think you could get away with it (I did live in Phoenix and it was a little scary white- and I'm white) but no where I know in Texas.

  • Rudi

    Suddenly one of the four men burst out loudly: “I ain’t voting for no nigger!”
    These same buissinessmen think and say, “I ain’t hiring no nigger!” The same racism is present in Michigan in boardrooms and on the assembly line.

  • superdestroyer

    No matter all of the historical references to lynchings, you obviously felt safe enough to confront middle age white men. You must have assumed that they would not assault you, not attack you, or not follow you. You assumed that they could be shamed.

    Compare your situation to the video of a white man being assaulted by several blacks in a NYC store. http://www.hamptonroads.tv/adv_search_embed.cfm

    If the table had been a group of blacks using profanity, using racial epitaphs and demonstrating gangster, ghetto attitudes, you would have been so fast to confront them? If they said, I ain't voting for no bitch, would you have made a comment or would you have feared them enough to ignore them and silently tolerate their brand of bigotry? Somehow, I doubt your courage would have gone that far.

    Until white America is as willing to confront the open bigotry demonstrated in much of the black community as you felt same enough to confront in the white community, the U.S. cannot really be a nation based upon equality.

  • http://themoderatevoice.com T_Steel

    Until white America is as willing to confront the open bigotry demonstrated in much of the black community as you felt same enough to confront in the white community, the U.S. cannot really be a nation based upon equality.

    Oh stop it SD. If much of the black community are “open bigots”, you DEFINITELY would here about it and Senator Obama wouldn't stand a chance.

  • Rudi

    Until the “black bigots” start lyching and cross burning as a form of intimidation instead of random criminal acts the resident SD/VDARE crowd has no argument. Most property and violent crime is white-on-white and black-on-black. Now hate crimes are a different story.

  • superdestroyer

    t-steel,

    All you have to do is watch a Kings of Comedy tour to see that open bigotry, misogyny, and racism are totally acceptable in the black community. And as Rudi alludes to, the double standard is alive and well. three or four whites attacking a black equal hate crime. Three or four blacks attacking a white equals random criminal act committed by misunderstood african-americans who just need more handouts.

  • http://greendreams.wordpress.com GreenDreams

    Oh, SD, <ad hominem attack self-deleted>

  • pacatrue

    I was thinking about SD's comments a bit. Many whites are afraid to approach black people, but why is this the case when most crime, as Rudi says, is white-on-white and black-on-black with the exception of hate crimes.

    (The following will relate.) I've been reading the Chronicles of Narnia series by C.S. Lewis to my son, the most famous of which is The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. I love the books quite a bit, read them myselves as a child, and my 5-year-old is eating them up himself. For all the good things in them, there are also some attitudes and beliefs from the UK of the early 50s, when they were written, that I'd rather not pass down to my child, including some rather clear racism.

    The nation to the south of Narnia is called Calormene and it's basically a fantasy version of the Ottoman Empire; with an absolutist emperor, scimitars, deserts, and worship of a false god. For us, it's hard to recall, but C.S. Lewis was a child when the Ottoman Empire fell, and the menace of this “Oriental” kingdom still resided in the European consciousness. Virtually every time the Calormenes are mentioned, Lewis cites their dark skin, their wild, white eyes; some people (though not good ones) call the Calormenes “Darkies”. And there's even a moment where bad Calormenes are crowding around with that dark skin again, with the smells of onion and garlic on their breaths. Onion and garlic? This recalls to me fears of this period and earlier of those swarthy southern and eastern Europeans; Greeks, Serbs, gypsies (Roma), Italians, etc.

    But it's not as if the greatest recent threats to England in 1952 were from swarthy Turks or Albanians eating garlic. In fact, the very recent greatest threat was from the Germans. And yet these attitudes and stereotypes were still lingering around 50-100 years after there was any real Ottoman threat to Western Europe.

    I would hazard a guess that most of the fear in whites of blacks today is not due to any actual risk but lingering cultural beliefs.

  • cosmoetica

    SD's comments are a perfect illustration of why so many black folk still have to shake their heads over the way whites react. He just does not get it.

    For every incident like he describes, there are dozens in the other direction to this day. there are blacks who are followed and harassed in retail stores, and some even abused.

    Wake up!

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    It was very smart as well as brave to tell those nimrods you have had black blood, Clarissa. I suspect that if I had been in the same situation I might have lost my temper, and you have witnessed what happens when I lose it.

    I do find it remarkable that these men felt free to use the word nigger so egregiously in a public place. But I must also find it a remarkable fact, because I know you are an honest person. I don't think you would just make something like that up.

    I've lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma for 11 going on 12 years now and I have never heard any nonblack person, including people I know to be thorough-going racists, use the word nigger in casual conversation, public or private. On the other hand, I don't hang out with the kind of unreconstructed peckerwoods that would be so mortally clueless as to use such a dangerous word. A good thing for them–and me, too–I don't need any new scars on my knuckles. Having the wit to shame them is much the better way.

    Absent the word nigger, I have witnessed hatred, bigotry, fear of the other, and so on and so wearily so forth expressed or acted out by human beings of all kinds irregardless of skin color, every place I have been spent enough time to have a conversation or two. We are all haters, bigots, fearmongers, and so fucking wearily so forth, to a greater or lesser degree.

    Those who claim vociferously not to be bigots demonstrate all the elaborations of bad liars. You are what you have to defend.

  • cosmoetica

    'Those who claim vociferously not to be bigots demonstrate all the elaborations of bad liars. You are what you have to defend.'

    It's interesting; I'm reading this new book called The Race Card, and that quote is typical of the sort of generalizing on the side of those who claim racism where there is not.

    It also illustrates how easily anyone of any color can broad brush another. In a sense, you are the flip side of Superdestroyer.

  • archangel

    …. for those commenting; thank you in part for helping me to see that much more eye-witness about the underlayers of culture, needs to be written about these matters… I will try in ensuing weeks. Others of my colleagues, esp T-Steel, Pete Abel, Angela Winters, Shaun Mullen, and others do also, pretty regularly.

    Peter_Allen, You're right I think, being able to 'hold' small progresses depends on small actions as well as larger ones. 'In the shelter of each other,' as my old world father used to say. Thank you.

    DLS: You hit it.

    StockBoySF: Should be SpiritBoySF. I promise to put your thoughts to good use.

    EEllis: “but no where I know in Texas.” We post-trauma specialists here in the Rockies helped many NOLA survivors who'd been transferred up from Houston. Their stories about their time in Texas are different. However, at the same time, EEllis, you are special blessed to live in the world you see. Be well there.

    Rudi: the assembly lines. You're right, there's a fine book that someone will write yet I hope, about blacks, latinos, poor whites and immigrants in the factories… the good, and the not at all useful. Maybe you?

    Superdestroyer. “you obviously felt safe enough to confront middle age white men.” I did not feel safe SD. I wish you had been there to protect me. You also ask if the mens' racial group were different, would I have spoken? I think I do not know for sure until I were in such a moment, but knowing how it goes with me and what I am guided by, I'd say a small hopeful Yes.

    T-Steels: You're accurate. And, I'd add that as a light- skinned minority (if for a moment i could call myself such… i don't normally like to) who people sometimes misjudge re background and heritage, I hear trash in all directions, but far more in one direction than the others. When offal-talk comes from some who have enjoyed so much privilege, regardless of race, it is sometimes more nuanced and difficult to understand. I keep trying. I know there’s a pony in here somewhere. lol

    Rudi again, you have hold of one of the most nuanced and unspoken about hierarchies in criminal law: You are right, the many types of inhumane behavior have to be differentiated one from the other in order to have a reasoned discussion about why/who/where/ how, and what for. Without those differentiations, discussions can lapse into what only looks like, I don’t know for certain, but just psychological discharge.

    SD, again: I have not seen Kings of comedy, I wish I could watch TV, but seldom have time until the late late hours of morning. Can’t say I really like watching how to make a million in the foreclosure market or how to make that last many pounds melt away on the love-handle destroyer. Re hate crimes: As I understand it from reading the law; it is differentiated not solely by race, but also religious and other factors. And you are right: there is still much miscarriage of just outcome for many many different kinds of people.

    GreenDreams: “ad hominem attack self-deleted.” That phrase made me smile. To perhaps return the favor: When I hear the phrase ‘ad hominem attack’ I often get a sudden picture of pre-Neanderthals bopping each other over the head with wiffle bats. Either that or one person with “where” written on their chest, and another with “ware” written on their chest, and both duking it out. Subtle. Lol, very subtle. (Hominem, homonym? Ok, Ok, enough of that. I go to my room now)

    Pacatrue: interesting and cogent view of the Narnia Chrons. … in part, because the entire series has so many heroic “small” beings, and also mirrors, as you point out, the seemingly timeless tensions between this tribe and that tribe, (by color, shape, customs, or other aspect) seemingly influenced by some unconscious matters of personal psychology and by world events. A five year old child. You are so blessed.

    Cosmoetica: Please send ‘wake up’ potion you had in mind immediately. Stop. By centaur courier, if need be. Stop. Desperately needed by us all. Stop. Thank you always. Stop.

    Dr. Omed: “Might have lost my temper, and you have witnessed what happens when I lose it.”
    Some here might like to visit Dr.Omed's blog at Salon.com He and I were street poets together long ago, a tag end of a bowry poets’ gang. Most of us had either lived on the streets or were currently living from shelter to shelter. His last “losing of temper” (though it was actually a righteous gorge rising up in him, I think) before he moved to Oklahoma, was when Dr. Omed sprang to everyone’s defense and disarmed a man bigger than himself who had pulled a knife. At a poetry reading. Also in a coffee house.

    dr.e

  • archangel

    …. for those commenting; thank you in part for helping me to see that much more eye-witness about the underlayers of culture, needs to be written about these matters… I will try in ensuing weeks. Others of my colleagues, esp T-Steel, Pete Abel, Angela Winters, Shaun Mullen, and others do also, pretty regularly.

    Peter_Allen, You're right I think, being able to 'hold' small progresses depends on small actions as well as larger ones. 'In the shelter of each other,' as my old world father used to say. Thank you.

    DLS: You hit it.

    StockBoySF: Should be SpiritBoySF. I promise to put your thoughts to good use.

    EEllis: “but no where I know in Texas.” We post-trauma specialists here in the Rockies helped many NOLA survivors who'd been transferred up from Houston. Their stories about their time in Texas are different. However, at the same time, EEllis, you are special blessed to live in the world you see. Be well there.

    Rudi: the assembly lines. You're right, there's a fine book that someone will write yet I hope, about blacks, latinos, poor whites and immigrants in the factories… the good, and the not at all useful. Maybe you?

    Superdestroyer. “you obviously felt safe enough to confront middle age white men.” I did not feel safe SD. I wish you had been there to protect me. You also ask if the mens' racial group were different, would I have spoken? I think I do not know for sure until I were in such a moment, but knowing how it goes with me and what I am guided by, I'd say a small hopeful Yes.

    T-Steels: You're accurate. And, I'd add that as a light- skinned minority (if for a moment i could call myself such… i don't normally like to) who people sometimes misjudge re background and heritage, I hear trash in all directions, but far more in one direction than the others. When offal-talk comes from some who have enjoyed so much privilege, regardless of race, it is sometimes more nuanced and difficult to understand. I keep trying. I know there’s a pony in here somewhere. lol

    Rudi again, you have hold of one of the most nuanced and unspoken about hierarchies in criminal law: You are right, the many types of inhumane behavior have to be differentiated one from the other in order to have a reasoned discussion about why/who/where/ how, and what for. Without those differentiations, discussions can lapse into what only looks like, I don’t know for certain, but just psychological discharge.

    SD, again: I have not seen Kings of comedy, I wish I could watch TV, but seldom have time until the late late hours of morning. Can’t say I really like watching how to make a million in the foreclosure market or how to make that last many pounds melt away on the love-handle destroyer. Re hate crimes: As I understand it from reading the law; it is differentiated not solely by race, but also religious and other factors. And you are right: there is still much miscarriage of just outcome for many many different kinds of people.

    GreenDreams: “ad hominem attack self-deleted.” That phrase made me smile. To perhaps return the favor: When I hear the phrase ‘ad hominem attack’ I often get a sudden picture of pre-Neanderthals bopping each other over the head with wiffle bats. Either that or one person with “where” written on their chest, and another with “ware” written on their chest, and both duking it out. Subtle. Lol, very subtle. (Hominem, homonym? Ok, Ok, enough of that. I go to my room now)

    Pacatrue: interesting and cogent view of the Narnia Chrons. … in part, because the entire series has so many heroic “small” beings, and also mirrors, as you point out, the seemingly timeless tensions between this tribe and that tribe, (by color, shape, customs, or other aspect) seemingly influenced by some unconscious matters of personal psychology and by world events. A five year old child. You are so blessed.

    Cosmoetica: Please send ‘wake up’ potion you had in mind immediately. Stop. By centaur courier, if need be. Stop. Desperately needed by us all. Stop. Thank you always. Stop.

    Dr. Omed: “Might have lost my temper, and you have witnessed what happens when I lose it.”
    Some here might like to visit Dr.Omed's blog at Salon.com He and I were street poets together long ago, a tag end of a bowry poets’ gang. Most of us had either lived on the streets or were currently living from shelter to shelter. His last “losing of temper” (though it was actually a righteous gorge rising up in him, I think) before he moved to Oklahoma, was when Dr. Omed sprang to everyone’s defense and disarmed a man bigger than himself who had pulled a knife. At a poetry reading. Also in a coffee house.

    dr.e

  • cosmoetica

    Dr E: Google The Race Card, and read the book. I'l have a review for Joe in a week or so.

    As for the potion- a good slap upside the head, lite on the latte.

  • cosmoetica

    Dr E: Google The Race Card, and read the book. I'l have a review for Joe in a week or so.

    As for the potion- a good slap upside the head, lite on the latte.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    And I only stopped strangling him when I came back to myself and realized I didn't want to go to jail for killing the likes of him. You make me think fondly of the good old bad old days, when you splash my attack on a fellow poet with such heroic varnish.

    cosmoetica.

    I AM the flip side of the Superduperator, but there is no sense about it. I am a bigot, a hater, a fearmonger. Which is to say, I share everything that is dark in our human heritage, genetic and cultural. I don't like to share, but I do. These things have a way of sharing themselves out. As Thoreau said, “it is error upon error, and clout upon clout, and our best virtue has for its occasion a superfluous and evitable wretchedness.”

    However, I am a misanthrope, not a racist. I hate those of my own species without regard to race, creed, or color. And I love them the same way, with a heart blacker than midnight.

    Is that a broad enough brush for you?

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    And I only stopped strangling him when I came back to myself and realized I didn't want to go to jail for killing the likes of him. You make me think fondly of the good old bad old days, when you splash my attack on a fellow poet with such heroic varnish.

    cosmoetica.

    I AM the flip side of the Superduperator, but there is no sense about it. I am a bigot, a hater, a fearmonger. Which is to say, I share everything that is dark in our human heritage, genetic and cultural. I don't like to share, but I do. These things have a way of sharing themselves out. As Thoreau said, “it is error upon error, and clout upon clout, and our best virtue has for its occasion a superfluous and evitable wretchedness.”

    However, I am a misanthrope, not a racist. I hate those of my own species without regard to race, creed, or color. And I love them the same way, with a heart blacker than midnight.

    Is that a broad enough brush for you?

  • StockBoySF

    dr.e, “Should be SpiritBoySF”.

    You're too kind, but thank you! What about, “StockBoy is what I do, but SpiritBoy is who I am”?

    Just kidding- I wouldn't be able to live up to it. I'd have to quit my day job. :)

  • StockBoySF

    dr.e, “Should be SpiritBoySF”.

    You're too kind, but thank you! What about, “StockBoy is what I do, but SpiritBoy is who I am”?

    Just kidding- I wouldn't be able to live up to it. I'd have to quit my day job. :)

  • archangel

    StockBoySF: You can be both.

    Cosmoetica: a long day, but “lite on the latte” made me laugh even this late at night after midnight. I dont know what latte is exactly, but it just sounded funny

    The Race Card book. Thank you.

    dr.e

  • archangel

    StockBoySF: You can be both.

    Cosmoetica: a long day, but “lite on the latte” made me laugh even this late at night after midnight. I dont know what latte is exactly, but it just sounded funny

    The Race Card book. Thank you.

    dr.e

  • superdestroyer

    Everyone's comments proved my point for me. Not one person claimed that they would confront sexist, racist, xenophobic, or bigotred statement if they were being made by blacks.

    And to claim that many more hate crimes are committed by whites, I suggest you goggle the recent rash of hate crimes committed on buses in Baltimore. All of them involved blacks attacking whites. If you can produce a rash of attacks by whites on blacks, then please cite it.

    Also, in about 1/2 of the felonies committed by blacks, whites are the victims. So much for most felonies involving blacks have blacks as victims.

  • superdestroyer

    Everyone's comments proved my point for me. Not one person claimed that they would confront sexist, racist, xenophobic, or bigotred statement if they were being made by blacks.

    And to claim that many more hate crimes are committed by whites, I suggest you goggle the recent rash of hate crimes committed on buses in Baltimore. All of them involved blacks attacking whites. If you can produce a rash of attacks by whites on blacks, then please cite it.

    Also, in about 1/2 of the felonies committed by blacks, whites are the victims. So much for most felonies involving blacks have blacks as victims.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    SD, It must be lovely to have a mind like a funnel.

    Makes it easy to top up all those milk bottles.

    Pulling unattested statistics out of your ass doesn't prove a thing–unless you have a mind like a funnel.

    Citing recent rashes without actually citing them only proves that you need to improve the hygiene of your nether regions, and that perhaps you need a new funnel.

    You may now proceed to the damn lies portion of your agenda. And get a Twain.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    SD, It must be lovely to have a mind like a funnel.

    Makes it easy to top up all those milk bottles.

    Pulling unattested statistics out of your ass doesn't prove a thing–unless you have a mind like a funnel.

    Citing recent rashes without actually citing them only proves that you need to improve the hygiene of your nether regions, and that perhaps you need a new funnel.

    You may now proceed to the damn lies portion of your agenda. And get a Twain.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Let me guess, I just proved your point again.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Let me guess, I just proved your point again.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Is that you, SD?

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Is that you, SD?

  • archangel

    Superdestroyer wrote: “Everyone's comments proved my point for me. Not one person claimed that they would confront sexist, racist, xenophobic, or bigotred statement if they were being made by blacks. “

    You must have misunderstood Superdestroyer. Or I did not make myself clear enough. See my comment to you farther above your last one. I responded to your question in the affirmative. I said, Yes, though I would not know til faced with that exact circumstance, no one can know til the exact moment …. that I would, I think, yes speak, regardless of the race of the person speaking to, at or over me.

    To be just Superdestroyer, I thought your question was aimed toward me, not the other commenters. I believe I answered. I hope you can see that. I thought the question was actually a good one: Would we speak, any of us, no matter what race, to people who are agressing who are black… or groups far from our own?

    dr.e

  • archangel

    Superdestroyer wrote: “Everyone's comments proved my point for me. Not one person claimed that they would confront sexist, racist, xenophobic, or bigotred statement if they were being made by blacks. “

    You must have misunderstood Superdestroyer. Or I did not make myself clear enough. See my comment to you farther above your last one. I responded to your question in the affirmative. I said, Yes, though I would not know til faced with that exact circumstance, no one can know til the exact moment …. that I would, I think, yes speak, regardless of the race of the person speaking to, at or over me.

    To be just Superdestroyer, I thought your question was aimed toward me, not the other commenters. I believe I answered. I hope you can see that. I thought the question was actually a good one: Would we speak, any of us, no matter what race, to people who are agressing who are black… or groups far from our own?

    dr.e

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Once upon a time I lived on 31st and Larimer (or thereabouts) in Denver. Mid nineties, I think. Very bad neighborhood. Gunfire was frequent enough to not to be particularly notable when you heard it. When I rode my bike to work I occasionally saw cars slowly cruising down the street around the nearby housing project, the windows rolled down and the passengers hanging their arms out, displaying their iron. Mac-10s were popular back then. I would occasionally make a detour if action seemed imminent, but often I rode right past them, they'd nod and I'd nod, and we'd both go on about our business–white guys on bicycles were not their targets.

    I've lived in a number of 'bad' neighborhoods in my time, walked the streets and alleys of these places at all times of the day and night, generally without fear. I've been mugged once–by white guys.

    I cite my personal experience because it proves nothing except that I can live in a poor neighborhood full of black people and assorted persons of color–and not feel threatened, or be threatened, for that matter.

    I witnessed the Martin Luther King Day 'riot' in Denver (in 1990?), when a small band of young wanna-be Klu Klucks demonstrated at the State Capital.

    I saw the police lift their tear gas guns, over the heads of the small scrum of counter protesters (the protester having been evac'ed for their “own safety”) directly in front of their barricade, and deliberately, with malice aforethought, fire gas grenades on long, lobbing trajectories, into a mixed race crowd peacefully dispersing after having heard a speech by the mayor in front of city hall (across the park from the State Capital).

    I helped people who got a worse whiff of the gas than I did get the hell out of there, including a woman with two small children.

    Let me repeat: There was no riot until the police started it by firing tear gas into a lawfully assembled peacefully dispersing crowd, rather than the small group of troublemakers right in front of them.

    This was never reported by the media, even tho' it happened right in front of their cameras.

    Whatever else happened that day, the police fired the first salvo, not at the 'perps' but at innocent bystanders. It certainly gave a lot of people a rash that day, including me.

    I call it a hate crime committed by the police given an excuse by white thugs against anyone who had dared to march in the MLK parade.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Once upon a time I lived on 31st and Larimer (or thereabouts) in Denver. Mid nineties, I think. Very bad neighborhood. Gunfire was frequent enough to not to be particularly notable when you heard it. When I rode my bike to work I occasionally saw cars slowly cruising down the street around the nearby housing project, the windows rolled down and the passengers hanging their arms out, displaying their iron. Mac-10s were popular back then. I would occasionally make a detour if action seemed imminent, but often I rode right past them, they'd nod and I'd nod, and we'd both go on about our business–white guys on bicycles were not their targets.

    I've lived in a number of 'bad' neighborhoods in my time, walked the streets and alleys of these places at all times of the day and night, generally without fear. I've been mugged once–by white guys.

    I cite my personal experience because it proves nothing except that I can live in a poor neighborhood full of black people and assorted persons of color–and not feel threatened, or be threatened, for that matter.

    I witnessed the Martin Luther King Day 'riot' in Denver (in 1990?), when a small band of young wanna-be Klu Klucks demonstrated at the State Capital.

    I saw the police lift their tear gas guns, over the heads of the small scrum of counter protesters (the protester having been evac'ed for their “own safety”) directly in front of their barricade, and deliberately, with malice aforethought, fire gas grenades on long, lobbing trajectories, into a mixed race crowd peacefully dispersing after having heard a speech by the mayor in front of city hall (across the park from the State Capital).

    I helped people who got a worse whiff of the gas than I did get the hell out of there, including a woman with two small children.

    Let me repeat: There was no riot until the police started it by firing tear gas into a lawfully assembled peacefully dispersing crowd, rather than the small group of troublemakers right in front of them.

    This was never reported by the media, even tho' it happened right in front of their cameras.

    Whatever else happened that day, the police fired the first salvo, not at the 'perps' but at innocent bystanders. It certainly gave a lot of people a rash that day, including me.

    I call it a hate crime committed by the police given an excuse by white thugs against anyone who had dared to march in the MLK parade.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Once upon a time I lived on 31st and Larimer (or thereabouts) in Denver. Mid nineties, I think. Very bad neighborhood. Gunfire was frequent enough to not to be particularly notable when you heard it. When I rode my bike to work I occasionally saw cars slowly cruising down the street around the nearby housing project, the windows rolled down and the passengers hanging their arms out, displaying their iron. Mac-10s were popular back then. I would occasionally make a detour if action seemed imminent, but often I rode right past them, they'd nod and I'd nod, and we'd both go on about our business–white guys on bicycles were not their targets.

    I've lived in a number of 'bad' neighborhoods in my time, walked the streets and alleys of these places at all times of the day and night, generally without fear. I've been mugged once–by white guys.

    I cite my personal experience because it proves nothing except that I can live in a poor neighborhood full of black people and assorted persons of color–and not feel threatened, or be threatened, for that matter.

    I witnessed the Martin Luther King Day 'riot' in Denver (in 1990?), when a small band of young wanna-be Klu Klucks demonstrated at the State Capital.

    I saw the police lift their tear gas guns, over the heads of the small scrum of counter protesters (the protester having been evac'ed for their “own safety”) directly in front of their barricade, and deliberately, with malice aforethought, fire gas grenades on long, lobbing trajectories, into a mixed race crowd peacefully dispersing after having heard a speech by the mayor in front of city hall (across the park from the State Capital).

    I helped people who got a worse whiff of the gas than I did get the hell out of there, including a woman with two small children.

    Let me repeat: There was no riot until the police started it by firing tear gas into a lawfully assembled peacefully dispersing crowd, rather than the small group of troublemakers right in front of them.

    This was never reported by the media, even tho' it happened right in front of their cameras.

    Whatever else happened that day, the police fired the first salvo, not at the 'perps' but at innocent bystanders. It certainly gave a lot of people a rash that day, including me.

    I call it a hate crime committed by the police given an excuse by white thugs against anyone who had dared to march in the MLK parade.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Need I mention that media coverage concentrated on alleged acts of “black thugs?”

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Need I mention that media coverage concentrated on alleged acts of “black thugs?”

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Need I mention that media coverage concentrated on alleged acts of “black thugs?”

  • EEllis

    I can remember a KKK rally here in Houston when I was a bit younger (late 80's early 90's) Most of the idiots (all 16 of them) were from out of state and were not well received. Me and some friends went down to see the rally and brought something for our visitors. D batteries. We pelted them and took off. The rest of the crowd was little friendlier. Death threats screamed at the top of the lungs seemed a real popular response. Though I thought, and still have no sympathy, that the KKK idiots deserved anything they got the idea that any counter protest of these people would ever be peaceful is absurd. Even an all white crowd. If on that day if we had gotten caught I would not of been happy but my dislike of the KKK didn't mean the laws had changed or that it would of been wrong to bust me. To often people see what they want in a crowd that they cannot view it from the other side. A mass of screaming, hollering, spitting people who are mad at the police for protecting garbage. Who outnumber the police 10 to 1 if not more. And as an aside to disperse a crowd you must get the people in the rear to leave first. If firing tear gas at the front the people there could easily be held in place by the crowd in back. Firing over into the crowd gets the rear moving and in theory the people close seeing this then flee. Sound and recognized tactics. The crime was in your head.

  • EEllis

    I can remember a KKK rally here in Houston when I was a bit younger (late 80's early 90's) Most of the idiots (all 16 of them) were from out of state and were not well received. Me and some friends went down to see the rally and brought something for our visitors. D batteries. We pelted them and took off. The rest of the crowd was little friendlier. Death threats screamed at the top of the lungs seemed a real popular response. Though I thought, and still have no sympathy, that the KKK idiots deserved anything they got the idea that any counter protest of these people would ever be peaceful is absurd. Even an all white crowd. If on that day if we had gotten caught I would not of been happy but my dislike of the KKK didn't mean the laws had changed or that it would of been wrong to bust me. To often people see what they want in a crowd that they cannot view it from the other side. A mass of screaming, hollering, spitting people who are mad at the police for protecting garbage. Who outnumber the police 10 to 1 if not more. And as an aside to disperse a crowd you must get the people in the rear to leave first. If firing tear gas at the front the people there could easily be held in place by the crowd in back. Firing over into the crowd gets the rear moving and in theory the people close seeing this then flee. Sound and recognized tactics. The crime was in your head.

  • EEllis

    I can remember a KKK rally here in Houston when I was a bit younger (late 80's early 90's) Most of the idiots (all 16 of them) were from out of state and were not well received. Me and some friends went down to see the rally and brought something for our visitors. D batteries. We pelted them and took off. The rest of the crowd was little friendlier. Death threats screamed at the top of the lungs seemed a real popular response. Though I thought, and still have no sympathy, that the KKK idiots deserved anything they got the idea that any counter protest of these people would ever be peaceful is absurd. Even an all white crowd. If on that day if we had gotten caught I would not of been happy but my dislike of the KKK didn't mean the laws had changed or that it would of been wrong to bust me. To often people see what they want in a crowd that they cannot view it from the other side. A mass of screaming, hollering, spitting people who are mad at the police for protecting garbage. Who outnumber the police 10 to 1 if not more. And as an aside to disperse a crowd you must get the people in the rear to leave first. If firing tear gas at the front the people there could easily be held in place by the crowd in back. Firing over into the crowd gets the rear moving and in theory the people close seeing this then flee. Sound and recognized tactics. The crime was in your head.

  • superdestroyer

    DrOmed

    See http://video.aol.com/video-detail/2nd-black-on-… for Baltimore.

    See Crime in the United States http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expand
    for the differences between black on white and white on black crimes.

    Now, since you insisted on statistics, please provide references for your data that provdes that blacks do not commit crimes at a higher rate than whites.

  • superdestroyer

    DrOmed

    See http://video.aol.com/video-detail/2nd-black-on-… for Baltimore.

    See Crime in the United States http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expand
    for the differences between black on white and white on black crimes.

    Now, since you insisted on statistics, please provide references for your data that provdes that blacks do not commit crimes at a higher rate than whites.

  • superdestroyer

    DrOmed

    See http://video.aol.com/video-detail/2nd-black-on-… for Baltimore.

    See Crime in the United States http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expand
    for the differences between black on white and white on black crimes.

    Now, since you insisted on statistics, please provide references for your data that provdes that blacks do not commit crimes at a higher rate than whites.

  • archangel

    just a note: There has been a comment made here overnight that has now been removed by TMV administrators. It was unacceptible according to TMV's commenting rules, (see #5 in this instance) which are listed below. Thank you.

    dr.e

  • archangel

    just a note: There has been a comment made here overnight that has now been removed by TMV administrators. It was unacceptible according to TMV's commenting rules, (see #5 in this instance) which are listed below. Thank you.

    dr.e

  • archangel

    just a note: There has been a comment made here overnight that has now been removed by TMV administrators. It was unacceptible according to TMV's commenting rules, (see #5 in this instance) which are listed below. Thank you.

    dr.e

  • edhillfiker

    fwd:

    The Real Barack Obama

    Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:06 AM

    By: Ronald Kessler

    Michelle Obama’s comment that, for the first time in her adult life, she feels proud of America helps crystallize who Barack Obama is.

    To be sure, the wife of a candidate is perfectly free to have views that are distinct from her husband’s. But on a matter that is so fundamental to one’s being as love of country, it is difficult to imagine that Michelle Obama would publicly twice make such a statement suggesting disdain for America unless she felt it comported with her husband’s views.

    Equally important, her statement aligns perfectly with the hate-America views of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama’s minister, friend, and sounding board for more than two decades. On the Sunday following 9/11, Wright characterized the terrorist attacks as a consequence of violent American policies. Four years later, Wright suggested that the attacks were retribution for America’s racism.

    “In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01,” Wright wrote in his church magazine Trumpet. “White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

    Wright has been a key supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in December, honored the Nation of Islam leader for lifetime achievement, saying he “truly epitomize[s] greatness.”

    Farrakhan has repeatedly made hate-filled statements targeting Jews, whites, America, and homosexuals.

    Those who think two of the closest people to Obama could publicly make anti-America statements unless Obama himself felt that way, are fooling themselves. To date, Obama has proven himself to be nothing more than a great orator, rendering the statements of those around him even more important in illuminating his true character and agenda. During his Senate career, he skipped 17 percent of the votes and sponsored only one bill that became law. That bill was to promote “relief, security, and democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo.”

    Bereft of official accomplishments, Obama has distinguished himself mainly by being against measures that protect American security, such as finishing the mission in Iraq. If we were to leave Iraq quickly, as Obama vows he would do, it would become a launch pad for al-Qaida attacks on the U.S.

    Obama avoided voting on extending the Protect America Act, thus putting America at risk when immediate interception of terrorist communications is required. Last August, Obama voted against a measure that would have allowed the U.S. to continue to monitor overseas conversations of terrorists like Osama bin Laden without first obtaining a warrant.

    If his radical vote had prevailed, bin Laden would have been given the same rights as Americans.

    To this day, Obama has not distanced himself from most of Rev. Wright’s comments. In a statement supposedly issued to address the matter, Obama ignored the point that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Farrakhan and that Wright’s church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader. Instead, as outlined in a Jan. 17 Newsmax article, he disingenuously claimed he thought the magazine bestowed the award on Farrakhan for his efforts to rehabilitate ex-prisoners.

    Neither Wright’s encomiums about Farrakhan nor the Trumpet article mentions ex-prisoners.

    Similarly, after John McCain’s wife Cindy responded to Michelle Obama’s remarks by telling a Wisconsin rally, “I have, and always will be, proud of my country,” Barack Obama told a radio interviewer that his wife did not say what people think she said. He then proceeded to rewrite her comments, claiming that she had meant she was encouraged by the “large numbers of people” who have gotten involved in the political process. Michelle Obama then made a similar revision of her remarks.

    In her speech in Milwaukee, Michelle Obama said flatly, “For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change.”

    And what has been wrong with America up to now? That it gave Michelle the opportunity to attend Princeton and Harvard Law School? That it gave Barack Obama the chance to attend Columbia University and Harvard Law School and become a U.S. senator making more than $1 million a year from book royalties?

    Was it that America stopped Nazi Germany from continuing to murder millions of Jews? That America has provided Africa and other countries with $15 billion to combat the spread of AIDS/HIV and that another $30 billion is on the way? That 46 percent of all Americans classified by the Census Bureau as poor own their own homes, 76 percent of them have air conditioning, and 75 percent of them have at least one car? Or that America allows us to express our views freely without fear of being put in jail, as is the case in Russia?

    A lawyer, Michelle Obama is perfectly capable of expressing herself precisely. In fact, she spoke from a written speech.

    Those who do not want to believe she meant what she said — and that Barack Obama could not be so close to Rev. Wright if he did not himself believe in much of what he has said — are in denial.

    The real Barack Obama is starting to emerge, and for those of us who are grateful to America for everything it represents, it is not a pretty sight.

    Ronald Kessler is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com. View his previous reports and get his dispatches sent to you free via e-mail. Go here now.

    © 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

  • edhillfiker

    fwd:

    The Real Barack Obama

    Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:06 AM

    By: Ronald Kessler

    Michelle Obama’s comment that, for the first time in her adult life, she feels proud of America helps crystallize who Barack Obama is.

    To be sure, the wife of a candidate is perfectly free to have views that are distinct from her husband’s. But on a matter that is so fundamental to one’s being as love of country, it is difficult to imagine that Michelle Obama would publicly twice make such a statement suggesting disdain for America unless she felt it comported with her husband’s views.

    Equally important, her statement aligns perfectly with the hate-America views of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama’s minister, friend, and sounding board for more than two decades. On the Sunday following 9/11, Wright characterized the terrorist attacks as a consequence of violent American policies. Four years later, Wright suggested that the attacks were retribution for America’s racism.

    “In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01,” Wright wrote in his church magazine Trumpet. “White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

    Wright has been a key supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in December, honored the Nation of Islam leader for lifetime achievement, saying he “truly epitomize[s] greatness.”

    Farrakhan has repeatedly made hate-filled statements targeting Jews, whites, America, and homosexuals.

    Those who think two of the closest people to Obama could publicly make anti-America statements unless Obama himself felt that way, are fooling themselves. To date, Obama has proven himself to be nothing more than a great orator, rendering the statements of those around him even more important in illuminating his true character and agenda. During his Senate career, he skipped 17 percent of the votes and sponsored only one bill that became law. That bill was to promote “relief, security, and democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo.”

    Bereft of official accomplishments, Obama has distinguished himself mainly by being against measures that protect American security, such as finishing the mission in Iraq. If we were to leave Iraq quickly, as Obama vows he would do, it would become a launch pad for al-Qaida attacks on the U.S.

    Obama avoided voting on extending the Protect America Act, thus putting America at risk when immediate interception of terrorist communications is required. Last August, Obama voted against a measure that would have allowed the U.S. to continue to monitor overseas conversations of terrorists like Osama bin Laden without first obtaining a warrant.

    If his radical vote had prevailed, bin Laden would have been given the same rights as Americans.

    To this day, Obama has not distanced himself from most of Rev. Wright’s comments. In a statement supposedly issued to address the matter, Obama ignored the point that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Farrakhan and that Wright’s church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader. Instead, as outlined in a Jan. 17 Newsmax article, he disingenuously claimed he thought the magazine bestowed the award on Farrakhan for his efforts to rehabilitate ex-prisoners.

    Neither Wright’s encomiums about Farrakhan nor the Trumpet article mentions ex-prisoners.

    Similarly, after John McCain’s wife Cindy responded to Michelle Obama’s remarks by telling a Wisconsin rally, “I have, and always will be, proud of my country,” Barack Obama told a radio interviewer that his wife did not say what people think she said. He then proceeded to rewrite her comments, claiming that she had meant she was encouraged by the “large numbers of people” who have gotten involved in the political process. Michelle Obama then made a similar revision of her remarks.

    In her speech in Milwaukee, Michelle Obama said flatly, “For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change.”

    And what has been wrong with America up to now? That it gave Michelle the opportunity to attend Princeton and Harvard Law School? That it gave Barack Obama the chance to attend Columbia University and Harvard Law School and become a U.S. senator making more than $1 million a year from book royalties?

    Was it that America stopped Nazi Germany from continuing to murder millions of Jews? That America has provided Africa and other countries with $15 billion to combat the spread of AIDS/HIV and that another $30 billion is on the way? That 46 percent of all Americans classified by the Census Bureau as poor own their own homes, 76 percent of them have air conditioning, and 75 percent of them have at least one car? Or that America allows us to express our views freely without fear of being put in jail, as is the case in Russia?

    A lawyer, Michelle Obama is perfectly capable of expressing herself precisely. In fact, she spoke from a written speech.

    Those who do not want to believe she meant what she said — and that Barack Obama could not be so close to Rev. Wright if he did not himself believe in much of what he has said — are in denial.

    The real Barack Obama is starting to emerge, and for those of us who are grateful to America for everything it represents, it is not a pretty sight.

    Ronald Kessler is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com. View his previous reports and get his dispatches sent to you free via e-mail. Go here now.

    © 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

  • edhillfiker

    fwd:

    The Real Barack Obama

    Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:06 AM

    By: Ronald Kessler

    Michelle Obama’s comment that, for the first time in her adult life, she feels proud of America helps crystallize who Barack Obama is.

    To be sure, the wife of a candidate is perfectly free to have views that are distinct from her husband’s. But on a matter that is so fundamental to one’s being as love of country, it is difficult to imagine that Michelle Obama would publicly twice make such a statement suggesting disdain for America unless she felt it comported with her husband’s views.

    Equally important, her statement aligns perfectly with the hate-America views of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama’s minister, friend, and sounding board for more than two decades. On the Sunday following 9/11, Wright characterized the terrorist attacks as a consequence of violent American policies. Four years later, Wright suggested that the attacks were retribution for America’s racism.

    “In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01,” Wright wrote in his church magazine Trumpet. “White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

    Wright has been a key supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in December, honored the Nation of Islam leader for lifetime achievement, saying he “truly epitomize[s] greatness.”

    Farrakhan has repeatedly made hate-filled statements targeting Jews, whites, America, and homosexuals.

    Those who think two of the closest people to Obama could publicly make anti-America statements unless Obama himself felt that way, are fooling themselves. To date, Obama has proven himself to be nothing more than a great orator, rendering the statements of those around him even more important in illuminating his true character and agenda. During his Senate career, he skipped 17 percent of the votes and sponsored only one bill that became law. That bill was to promote “relief, security, and democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo.”

    Bereft of official accomplishments, Obama has distinguished himself mainly by being against measures that protect American security, such as finishing the mission in Iraq. If we were to leave Iraq quickly, as Obama vows he would do, it would become a launch pad for al-Qaida attacks on the U.S.

    Obama avoided voting on extending the Protect America Act, thus putting America at risk when immediate interception of terrorist communications is required. Last August, Obama voted against a measure that would have allowed the U.S. to continue to monitor overseas conversations of terrorists like Osama bin Laden without first obtaining a warrant.

    If his radical vote had prevailed, bin Laden would have been given the same rights as Americans.

    To this day, Obama has not distanced himself from most of Rev. Wright’s comments. In a statement supposedly issued to address the matter, Obama ignored the point that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Farrakhan and that Wright’s church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader. Instead, as outlined in a Jan. 17 Newsmax article, he disingenuously claimed he thought the magazine bestowed the award on Farrakhan for his efforts to rehabilitate ex-prisoners.

    Neither Wright’s encomiums about Farrakhan nor the Trumpet article mentions ex-prisoners.

    Similarly, after John McCain’s wife Cindy responded to Michelle Obama’s remarks by telling a Wisconsin rally, “I have, and always will be, proud of my country,” Barack Obama told a radio interviewer that his wife did not say what people think she said. He then proceeded to rewrite her comments, claiming that she had meant she was encouraged by the “large numbers of people” who have gotten involved in the political process. Michelle Obama then made a similar revision of her remarks.

    In her speech in Milwaukee, Michelle Obama said flatly, “For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change.”

    And what has been wrong with America up to now? That it gave Michelle the opportunity to attend Princeton and Harvard Law School? That it gave Barack Obama the chance to attend Columbia University and Harvard Law School and become a U.S. senator making more than $1 million a year from book royalties?

    Was it that America stopped Nazi Germany from continuing to murder millions of Jews? That America has provided Africa and other countries with $15 billion to combat the spread of AIDS/HIV and that another $30 billion is on the way? That 46 percent of all Americans classified by the Census Bureau as poor own their own homes, 76 percent of them have air conditioning, and 75 percent of them have at least one car? Or that America allows us to express our views freely without fear of being put in jail, as is the case in Russia?

    A lawyer, Michelle Obama is perfectly capable of expressing herself precisely. In fact, she spoke from a written speech.

    Those who do not want to believe she meant what she said — and that Barack Obama could not be so close to Rev. Wright if he did not himself believe in much of what he has said — are in denial.

    The real Barack Obama is starting to emerge, and for those of us who are grateful to America for everything it represents, it is not a pretty sight.

    Ronald Kessler is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com. View his previous reports and get his dispatches sent to you free via e-mail. Go here now.

    © 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

  • cosmoetica

    SD: You live in your own world. There's no doubt blacks commit crimes (or, at least, are caught) at a higher rate than whites, but worldwide, that is a given for ANY group w lower poverty rates.

    But to equate that with somehow whites having it as bad as blacks, or suffering from bigotry worse, is ridiculous. It's these arguments by exceptionalism that define your extremism. It's akin to pointing to the Tawana Brawley case and claiming that all blacks or most make up claims of racism. That's simply specious.

    Dr O: Histrionics only play into the hands of folk like SD. You be Pavlov and make him woof.

    SD: “Everyone's comments proved my point for me. Not one person claimed that they would confront sexist, racist, xenophobic, or bigoted statement if they were being made by blacks. “

    For the record, I was 12 years old when I was, w/o knowledge, driven to a KKK rally on Long Island by the father of a friend of mine. I laughed out loud at the head ass, and called him an idiot. I got me, my friend, and his father booted out of the rally. When I was 17, I took a girl to an abortion clinic, was harassed by asses yelling and throwing ketchup around, and was assaulted, I kicked the primary assaulter in the teeth and he fell back down a flight of stairs, and the whole crowd of troglodytes was in horror that someone stood up to them.
    When I was 16 a Puerto Rican girl was being assaulted outside a gay bar by white guys. I stabbed one, hit another w a tree branch, and the pussies fled.
    When I was 6, an uncle of mine said positive things about MLK's death, in a crowd of LI Republicans. I asked him why he hated someone who was good?
    I went to a HS that was 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/3 Latino. There was an incident when a whiney white kid who was actually on the football team, and twice my side, was so scared of this big, tall black girl w a bitch attitude, who was talking trash on white folk. Having grown up ~ blacks, I stood up to her, called her a dumb bitch, and when she tried to slap me, caught her arm, twisted it, and slapped her down. Like with the abortion nuts, the kids- white and black were stunned.
    There are many other incidents- some which occurred in circumstances which I would have to invoke the 5th Amendment on, so I will leave it there.

    Thus, stop acting like a deluded child.

  • cosmoetica

    SD: You live in your own world. There's no doubt blacks commit crimes (or, at least, are caught) at a higher rate than whites, but worldwide, that is a given for ANY group w lower poverty rates.

    But to equate that with somehow whites having it as bad as blacks, or suffering from bigotry worse, is ridiculous. It's these arguments by exceptionalism that define your extremism. It's akin to pointing to the Tawana Brawley case and claiming that all blacks or most make up claims of racism. That's simply specious.

    Dr O: Histrionics only play into the hands of folk like SD. You be Pavlov and make him woof.

    SD: “Everyone's comments proved my point for me. Not one person claimed that they would confront sexist, racist, xenophobic, or bigoted statement if they were being made by blacks. “

    For the record, I was 12 years old when I was, w/o knowledge, driven to a KKK rally on Long Island by the father of a friend of mine. I laughed out loud at the head ass, and called him an idiot. I got me, my friend, and his father booted out of the rally. When I was 17, I took a girl to an abortion clinic, was harassed by asses yelling and throwing ketchup around, and was assaulted, I kicked the primary assaulter in the teeth and he fell back down a flight of stairs, and the whole crowd of troglodytes was in horror that someone stood up to them.
    When I was 16 a Puerto Rican girl was being assaulted outside a gay bar by white guys. I stabbed one, hit another w a tree branch, and the pussies fled.
    When I was 6, an uncle of mine said positive things about MLK's death, in a crowd of LI Republicans. I asked him why he hated someone who was good?
    I went to a HS that was 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/3 Latino. There was an incident when a whiney white kid who was actually on the football team, and twice my side, was so scared of this big, tall black girl w a bitch attitude, who was talking trash on white folk. Having grown up ~ blacks, I stood up to her, called her a dumb bitch, and when she tried to slap me, caught her arm, twisted it, and slapped her down. Like with the abortion nuts, the kids- white and black were stunned.
    There are many other incidents- some which occurred in circumstances which I would have to invoke the 5th Amendment on, so I will leave it there.

    Thus, stop acting like a deluded child.

  • cosmoetica

    SD: You live in your own world. There's no doubt blacks commit crimes (or, at least, are caught) at a higher rate than whites, but worldwide, that is a given for ANY group w lower poverty rates.

    But to equate that with somehow whites having it as bad as blacks, or suffering from bigotry worse, is ridiculous. It's these arguments by exceptionalism that define your extremism. It's akin to pointing to the Tawana Brawley case and claiming that all blacks or most make up claims of racism. That's simply specious.

    Dr O: Histrionics only play into the hands of folk like SD. You be Pavlov and make him woof.

    SD: “Everyone's comments proved my point for me. Not one person claimed that they would confront sexist, racist, xenophobic, or bigoted statement if they were being made by blacks. “

    For the record, I was 12 years old when I was, w/o knowledge, driven to a KKK rally on Long Island by the father of a friend of mine. I laughed out loud at the head ass, and called him an idiot. I got me, my friend, and his father booted out of the rally. When I was 17, I took a girl to an abortion clinic, was harassed by asses yelling and throwing ketchup around, and was assaulted, I kicked the primary assaulter in the teeth and he fell back down a flight of stairs, and the whole crowd of troglodytes was in horror that someone stood up to them.
    When I was 16 a Puerto Rican girl was being assaulted outside a gay bar by white guys. I stabbed one, hit another w a tree branch, and the pussies fled.
    When I was 6, an uncle of mine said positive things about MLK's death, in a crowd of LI Republicans. I asked him why he hated someone who was good?
    I went to a HS that was 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/3 Latino. There was an incident when a whiney white kid who was actually on the football team, and twice my side, was so scared of this big, tall black girl w a bitch attitude, who was talking trash on white folk. Having grown up ~ blacks, I stood up to her, called her a dumb bitch, and when she tried to slap me, caught her arm, twisted it, and slapped her down. Like with the abortion nuts, the kids- white and black were stunned.
    There are many other incidents- some which occurred in circumstances which I would have to invoke the 5th Amendment on, so I will leave it there.

    Thus, stop acting like a deluded child.

  • superdestroyer

    cosmoetica,

    Since you used a string of anecdotes, I assume that they are acceptable. I work in healthcare. Virtually every hospital that I have business with has the problem that the black employees seem to believe that when they are talking to each other, that whites cannot hear them. In every large urban hospital, I have personally witnessed black employees using vulgar, racist, sexist, and xenophobic behavior, I have never seen a supervisor correct the black employees or any white/non-black patient confront the anti-social behavior.

    I have see blacks spit on whites in the DC metro, on the side walk in DC, and in Union station. I have seen blacks taunt whites and asians on an almost daily basis on the DC metro. I have never, ever seen a white or Asian person confront the rude, anti-social, bigoted behavior of the blacks. Whties and Asians do want they have been taught: flee from the blacks and avoid them at all costs.

    Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low. However, a white person accosting black bigots on the Green LIne in DC is an open invitation for violence with all the rest of the blacks on the subway cheering on the perpetrators. See the rape in the Howard County Maryland public school. Blacks have learned that in attacking a white person by themselves that they can alibi each other. See the racial bus attacks in Baltimore.

    You do not have to do back twenty years to reference Tawan Brawley. Baltimore in 2007 have an faked hate crime in their fire Department. Also see the Duke non-rape case.

  • superdestroyer

    cosmoetica,

    Since you used a string of anecdotes, I assume that they are acceptable. I work in healthcare. Virtually every hospital that I have business with has the problem that the black employees seem to believe that when they are talking to each other, that whites cannot hear them. In every large urban hospital, I have personally witnessed black employees using vulgar, racist, sexist, and xenophobic behavior, I have never seen a supervisor correct the black employees or any white/non-black patient confront the anti-social behavior.

    I have see blacks spit on whites in the DC metro, on the side walk in DC, and in Union station. I have seen blacks taunt whites and asians on an almost daily basis on the DC metro. I have never, ever seen a white or Asian person confront the rude, anti-social, bigoted behavior of the blacks. Whties and Asians do want they have been taught: flee from the blacks and avoid them at all costs.

    Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low. However, a white person accosting black bigots on the Green LIne in DC is an open invitation for violence with all the rest of the blacks on the subway cheering on the perpetrators. See the rape in the Howard County Maryland public school. Blacks have learned that in attacking a white person by themselves that they can alibi each other. See the racial bus attacks in Baltimore.

    You do not have to do back twenty years to reference Tawan Brawley. Baltimore in 2007 have an faked hate crime in their fire Department. Also see the Duke non-rape case.

  • superdestroyer

    cosmoetica,

    Since you used a string of anecdotes, I assume that they are acceptable. I work in healthcare. Virtually every hospital that I have business with has the problem that the black employees seem to believe that when they are talking to each other, that whites cannot hear them. In every large urban hospital, I have personally witnessed black employees using vulgar, racist, sexist, and xenophobic behavior, I have never seen a supervisor correct the black employees or any white/non-black patient confront the anti-social behavior.

    I have see blacks spit on whites in the DC metro, on the side walk in DC, and in Union station. I have seen blacks taunt whites and asians on an almost daily basis on the DC metro. I have never, ever seen a white or Asian person confront the rude, anti-social, bigoted behavior of the blacks. Whties and Asians do want they have been taught: flee from the blacks and avoid them at all costs.

    Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low. However, a white person accosting black bigots on the Green LIne in DC is an open invitation for violence with all the rest of the blacks on the subway cheering on the perpetrators. See the rape in the Howard County Maryland public school. Blacks have learned that in attacking a white person by themselves that they can alibi each other. See the racial bus attacks in Baltimore.

    You do not have to do back twenty years to reference Tawan Brawley. Baltimore in 2007 have an faked hate crime in their fire Department. Also see the Duke non-rape case.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Arf! Where's the drool cup?

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Arf! Where's the drool cup?

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Arf! Where's the drool cup?

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Eellis, in the particular incident I witnessed, the police outnumbered the counter protesters (maybe 30 people altogether), who were all gathered in a knot at one point in the police line. I speak as an observer, not a participant, with a good vantage point on rising ground. The main body of MLK day marchers and attendees were at least a hundred yards away on the other side of the park, no where near the point of conflict. There was no impediment to dispersal of the people who were throwing stuff and yellling because there was no crowd behind them–TV trucks, random people watching the fun, yes, but no shoulder to shoulder mass.

    The Police fired more than one volley of tear gas, and the counter protesters got a dose, too, but the initial volley was hail maried over the trees into a peaceful crowd.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Eellis, in the particular incident I witnessed, the police outnumbered the counter protesters (maybe 30 people altogether), who were all gathered in a knot at one point in the police line. I speak as an observer, not a participant, with a good vantage point on rising ground. The main body of MLK day marchers and attendees were at least a hundred yards away on the other side of the park, no where near the point of conflict. There was no impediment to dispersal of the people who were throwing stuff and yellling because there was no crowd behind them–TV trucks, random people watching the fun, yes, but no shoulder to shoulder mass.

    The Police fired more than one volley of tear gas, and the counter protesters got a dose, too, but the initial volley was hail maried over the trees into a peaceful crowd.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Eellis, in the particular incident I witnessed, the police outnumbered the counter protesters (maybe 30 people altogether), who were all gathered in a knot at one point in the police line. I speak as an observer, not a participant, with a good vantage point on rising ground. The main body of MLK day marchers and attendees were at least a hundred yards away on the other side of the park, no where near the point of conflict. There was no impediment to dispersal of the people who were throwing stuff and yellling because there was no crowd behind them–TV trucks, random people watching the fun, yes, but no shoulder to shoulder mass.

    The Police fired more than one volley of tear gas, and the counter protesters got a dose, too, but the initial volley was hail maried over the trees into a peaceful crowd.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    My dear Superduperator,

    You ask,

    “Now, since you insisted on statistics, please provide references for your data that provdes that blacks do not commit crimes at a higher rate than whites.”

    I don't believe I insisted on statistics, or was attempting to “provde” any particular point, except that statistics are irrelevant when you misuse them to prove a point that you a priori believe to true beyond doubt as an article of some misbegotten creed.

    Occam had a razor, you got a funnel.

    All human lineages trace back to Africa, thus, we are all in a sense African Americans, and many if not most African Americans have as many–or more–European ancestors–than they have directly from Africa.

    When you peel a banana, it's still a banana. Peel the skin off a human, it's still the same bloody mess whatever the color of that skin.

    You and I and Michelle Obama and every human being on Earth share all but one tenth of one percent of our DNA, of the human genome. Does that make you itch? It does me, sometimes, when I regard fellow members of my species, such as you.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    My dear Superduperator,

    You ask,

    “Now, since you insisted on statistics, please provide references for your data that provdes that blacks do not commit crimes at a higher rate than whites.”

    I don't believe I insisted on statistics, or was attempting to “provde” any particular point, except that statistics are irrelevant when you misuse them to prove a point that you a priori believe to true beyond doubt as an article of some misbegotten creed.

    Occam had a razor, you got a funnel.

    All human lineages trace back to Africa, thus, we are all in a sense African Americans, and many if not most African Americans have as many–or more–European ancestors–than they have directly from Africa.

    When you peel a banana, it's still a banana. Peel the skin off a human, it's still the same bloody mess whatever the color of that skin.

    You and I and Michelle Obama and every human being on Earth share all but one tenth of one percent of our DNA, of the human genome. Does that make you itch? It does me, sometimes, when I regard fellow members of my species, such as you.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    My dear Superduperator,

    You ask,

    “Now, since you insisted on statistics, please provide references for your data that provdes that blacks do not commit crimes at a higher rate than whites.”

    I don't believe I insisted on statistics, or was attempting to “provde” any particular point, except that statistics are irrelevant when you misuse them to prove a point that you a priori believe to true beyond doubt as an article of some misbegotten creed.

    Occam had a razor, you got a funnel.

    All human lineages trace back to Africa, thus, we are all in a sense African Americans, and many if not most African Americans have as many–or more–European ancestors–than they have directly from Africa.

    When you peel a banana, it's still a banana. Peel the skin off a human, it's still the same bloody mess whatever the color of that skin.

    You and I and Michelle Obama and every human being on Earth share all but one tenth of one percent of our DNA, of the human genome. Does that make you itch? It does me, sometimes, when I regard fellow members of my species, such as you.

  • cosmoetica

    SD:

    'Since you used a string of anecdotes, I assume that they are acceptable. I work in healthcare. Virtually every hospital that I have business with has the problem that the black employees seem to believe that when they are talking to each other, that whites cannot hear them. In every large urban hospital, I have personally witnessed black employees using vulgar, racist, sexist, and xenophobic behavior, I have never seen a supervisor correct the black employees or any white/non-black patient confront the anti-social behavior.'

    So, the point is that there are black assholes and white cowards- sort of like my riff on the white football player who was scared of a black chick I knocked on her ass. Boy, that's a real oddity in America- white folks scared of blacks and they hopping on it because it's their way of getting back at the assorted little racisms that occur every day. I've worked many years in many businesses, and there is always a glass ceiling for blacks, there are always blacks followed by security guards, even if in a suit and a man over 50.
    Let's see, I've worked with many people- black, white Latino, Asian, and most of the men, even bosses, speak of females and genitalia and getting laid, make jokes about this group or that. So what you are telling me is that you NOTICE the black assholes, but don't notice the other groups' assholes.
    This is what I mean by arguing by exceptionalism. And the fact you notice may have to do w that same sort of fear the white footballer showed.

    'I have see blacks spit on whites in the DC metro, on the side walk in DC, and in Union station. I have seen blacks taunt whites and asians on an almost daily basis on the DC metro. I have never, ever seen a white or Asian person confront the rude, anti-social, bigoted behavior of the blacks. Whties and Asians do want they have been taught: flee from the blacks and avoid them at all costs.'

    Spoken like a true Archie Bunker. I've known people of all groups taunt, curse, assault, and taunt others. I've known obnoxious militant queers who've taunted churchgoers, and vice-versa. A childhood friend of mine's cousin was one of a van full of white kids who beat 2 black kids nearly to death w a baseball bat (I was not there), but heard him bragging later. Do you realize how insulated and paranoid your argument is?

    'Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low. However, a white person accosting black bigots on the Green LIne in DC is an open invitation for violence with all the rest of the blacks on the subway cheering on the perpetrators. See the rape in the Howard County Maryland public school. Blacks have learned that in attacking a white person by themselves that they can alibi each other. See the racial bus attacks in Baltimore.'

    I believe Dr. E said she was not comfortable. But, how did the people look? What age were they? I avoid all teen men or those in their early 20s, because pack-like behavior is a given- black, white, or whatever. Again, argument by exception.

    'You do not have to do back twenty years to reference Tawan Brawley. Baltimore in 2007 have an faked hate crime in their fire Department. Also see the Duke non-rape case.'

    I don't have to go to Baltimore. A guy in my own dept at work tried to BS a fake claim of racism because he was bitchy. He was Mexican. Shall I assume all Mexicans are self-centered little be-yotches?

  • cosmoetica

    SD:

    'Since you used a string of anecdotes, I assume that they are acceptable. I work in healthcare. Virtually every hospital that I have business with has the problem that the black employees seem to believe that when they are talking to each other, that whites cannot hear them. In every large urban hospital, I have personally witnessed black employees using vulgar, racist, sexist, and xenophobic behavior, I have never seen a supervisor correct the black employees or any white/non-black patient confront the anti-social behavior.'

    So, the point is that there are black assholes and white cowards- sort of like my riff on the white football player who was scared of a black chick I knocked on her ass. Boy, that's a real oddity in America- white folks scared of blacks and they hopping on it because it's their way of getting back at the assorted little racisms that occur every day. I've worked many years in many businesses, and there is always a glass ceiling for blacks, there are always blacks followed by security guards, even if in a suit and a man over 50.
    Let's see, I've worked with many people- black, white Latino, Asian, and most of the men, even bosses, speak of females and genitalia and getting laid, make jokes about this group or that. So what you are telling me is that you NOTICE the black assholes, but don't notice the other groups' assholes.
    This is what I mean by arguing by exceptionalism. And the fact you notice may have to do w that same sort of fear the white footballer showed.

    'I have see blacks spit on whites in the DC metro, on the side walk in DC, and in Union station. I have seen blacks taunt whites and asians on an almost daily basis on the DC metro. I have never, ever seen a white or Asian person confront the rude, anti-social, bigoted behavior of the blacks. Whties and Asians do want they have been taught: flee from the blacks and avoid them at all costs.'

    Spoken like a true Archie Bunker. I've known people of all groups taunt, curse, assault, and taunt others. I've known obnoxious militant queers who've taunted churchgoers, and vice-versa. A childhood friend of mine's cousin was one of a van full of white kids who beat 2 black kids nearly to death w a baseball bat (I was not there), but heard him bragging later. Do you realize how insulated and paranoid your argument is?

    'Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low. However, a white person accosting black bigots on the Green LIne in DC is an open invitation for violence with all the rest of the blacks on the subway cheering on the perpetrators. See the rape in the Howard County Maryland public school. Blacks have learned that in attacking a white person by themselves that they can alibi each other. See the racial bus attacks in Baltimore.'

    I believe Dr. E said she was not comfortable. But, how did the people look? What age were they? I avoid all teen men or those in their early 20s, because pack-like behavior is a given- black, white, or whatever. Again, argument by exception.

    'You do not have to do back twenty years to reference Tawan Brawley. Baltimore in 2007 have an faked hate crime in their fire Department. Also see the Duke non-rape case.'

    I don't have to go to Baltimore. A guy in my own dept at work tried to BS a fake claim of racism because he was bitchy. He was Mexican. Shall I assume all Mexicans are self-centered little be-yotches?

  • cosmoetica

    SD:

    'Since you used a string of anecdotes, I assume that they are acceptable. I work in healthcare. Virtually every hospital that I have business with has the problem that the black employees seem to believe that when they are talking to each other, that whites cannot hear them. In every large urban hospital, I have personally witnessed black employees using vulgar, racist, sexist, and xenophobic behavior, I have never seen a supervisor correct the black employees or any white/non-black patient confront the anti-social behavior.'

    So, the point is that there are black assholes and white cowards- sort of like my riff on the white football player who was scared of a black chick I knocked on her ass. Boy, that's a real oddity in America- white folks scared of blacks and they hopping on it because it's their way of getting back at the assorted little racisms that occur every day. I've worked many years in many businesses, and there is always a glass ceiling for blacks, there are always blacks followed by security guards, even if in a suit and a man over 50.
    Let's see, I've worked with many people- black, white Latino, Asian, and most of the men, even bosses, speak of females and genitalia and getting laid, make jokes about this group or that. So what you are telling me is that you NOTICE the black assholes, but don't notice the other groups' assholes.
    This is what I mean by arguing by exceptionalism. And the fact you notice may have to do w that same sort of fear the white footballer showed.

    'I have see blacks spit on whites in the DC metro, on the side walk in DC, and in Union station. I have seen blacks taunt whites and asians on an almost daily basis on the DC metro. I have never, ever seen a white or Asian person confront the rude, anti-social, bigoted behavior of the blacks. Whties and Asians do want they have been taught: flee from the blacks and avoid them at all costs.'

    Spoken like a true Archie Bunker. I've known people of all groups taunt, curse, assault, and taunt others. I've known obnoxious militant queers who've taunted churchgoers, and vice-versa. A childhood friend of mine's cousin was one of a van full of white kids who beat 2 black kids nearly to death w a baseball bat (I was not there), but heard him bragging later. Do you realize how insulated and paranoid your argument is?

    'Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low. However, a white person accosting black bigots on the Green LIne in DC is an open invitation for violence with all the rest of the blacks on the subway cheering on the perpetrators. See the rape in the Howard County Maryland public school. Blacks have learned that in attacking a white person by themselves that they can alibi each other. See the racial bus attacks in Baltimore.'

    I believe Dr. E said she was not comfortable. But, how did the people look? What age were they? I avoid all teen men or those in their early 20s, because pack-like behavior is a given- black, white, or whatever. Again, argument by exception.

    'You do not have to do back twenty years to reference Tawan Brawley. Baltimore in 2007 have an faked hate crime in their fire Department. Also see the Duke non-rape case.'

    I don't have to go to Baltimore. A guy in my own dept at work tried to BS a fake claim of racism because he was bitchy. He was Mexican. Shall I assume all Mexicans are self-centered little be-yotches?

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    I myself have black cousins, because some of my ancestors owned some of their ancestors. One of my cousins is Melba Pattillo, and if you don't know who she is, you can google it up. She certainly knows something about getting spat on, and walking through a hurricane of hateful verbal abuse.

    I'm much prouder to claim her as a blood relative than I am my own great great grandfather who fought on the Confederate side in the Civil War.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    I myself have black cousins, because some of my ancestors owned some of their ancestors. One of my cousins is Melba Pattillo, and if you don't know who she is, you can google it up. She certainly knows something about getting spat on, and walking through a hurricane of hateful verbal abuse.

    I'm much prouder to claim her as a blood relative than I am my own great great grandfather who fought on the Confederate side in the Civil War.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    I myself have black cousins, because some of my ancestors owned some of their ancestors. One of my cousins is Melba Pattillo, and if you don't know who she is, you can google it up. She certainly knows something about getting spat on, and walking through a hurricane of hateful verbal abuse.

    I'm much prouder to claim her as a blood relative than I am my own great great grandfather who fought on the Confederate side in the Civil War.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Pack behavior–important point, cosmoetica. Facing down a pack. Getting caught between packs. Look 'em in the eye, address them directly, and move toward them, most–but not all–will flinch and back off. Like dogs, most humans are cowards and will not fight unless they're sure of winning–not on a rational level, but instinctually. A person who acts aggressively with the odds against is seen as, felt as, dangerous.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Pack behavior–important point, cosmoetica. Facing down a pack. Getting caught between packs. Look 'em in the eye, address them directly, and move toward them, most–but not all–will flinch and back off. Like dogs, most humans are cowards and will not fight unless they're sure of winning–not on a rational level, but instinctually. A person who acts aggressively with the odds against is seen as, felt as, dangerous.

  • http://blogs.salon.com/0002296/ DrOmed

    Pack behavior–important point, cosmoetica. Facing down a pack. Getting caught between packs. Look 'em in the eye, address them directly, and move toward them, most–but not all–will flinch and back off. Like dogs, most humans are cowards and will not fight unless they're sure of winning–not on a rational level, but instinctually. A person who acts aggressively with the odds against is seen as, felt as, dangerous.

  • archangel

    Superdestroyer wrote: “Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low.”

    dear Super destroyer. I agree there are many different kinds of conflicts, as you have mentioned, and many are unjust and wrong.

    And, also, I think holding all these many different incidents altogether as 'same kind' no matter the factual aspects and details of all involved, makes it difficult to sort and address them with some usefulness in our larger culture.

    To hold all levels of conflict together as though they all have the same underlying factors makes them into a non-differentiated issue that cannot be solved.

    I think that's why so many commenters here are speaking of specific eyewitness: many of us are continuing to learn our ways through by trying to understand and analyze not just others, but also ourselves, our own reactions, too.

    In this article, I wrote about 1% action/ influence or less, being countable as progress. That includes self-analysis. Without asking what stands behind my own fears, aversions, instant affront, in myself, as best I can, I don’t know that we can keep the more safe world, the more bridged world, we all somewhere in our lives, hope for.

    If noting a problem in our culture is a small progress, if intervening in a problem to attempt to seed something useful and new, is a kind of small fastener for a new and better way, then self analysis, tightens those new fasteners… so that new ideas and trajectories can actually happen and continue to evolve.

    That is what I would like to bless over all, Superdestroyer.

    I do not invalidate your views of your experiences nonetheless.

    You mentioned my 'feeling comfortable to accost white men…' I looked through my article and did not see anywhere that I referenced these four men as 'white' as you note in your comments. That's not the way I thought of them. I was snagged by their behavior, not by whatever race they might be.

    I don’t know if they were 'white,' by whatever standard the dominant culture might apply. I can see how you might have assumed they were though. There is an odd almost collective idea in our culture that I think we might need be inoculated against… that if there's trouble, we might all jump to imagine it's between those who the news media perseverates on… either of the two sides understood night after night, as the current and ongoing 'alien other.'

    But, the men were, light-skinned. And I have no idea if they were white, as I reflected in my article. Using a race moniker for any individual, has for decades in our country, been pretty debatable as we find via DNA testing that so many are mixtures of many backgrounds… as I also wrote in the article…re the multi- heritages each person carries in our times.

    If I did not state my point strongly or repetitively enough, I can say it another way here now: that the issues regarding 'racially tagged' opprobrium are as much, at root, about behavior… and unlaid ghosts and old covert angers, unhealed wounds, self-protection born of a priori trauma, grief, misunderstandings, unforgiven grudges, and lack of differentiation, rather than race alone. I would hold these as evidences to inquire of, no matter which race a person filled with such opprobrium carries.

    This is just my .02. There appears to be an automatic almost archetypal one-sided reaction in some, to 'race', rather than a reasoned inquiry that can see many sides underlying.

    One of the men might have been east Indian, but I would not know this for certain; especially since the conversation was cut short…. one perhaps was German-African-American-British, one could have been Mexican-Irish, one could have been Korean-Anglo, or Vietnamese-Swedish… all combinations of souls that have come into being in the US as a result of 'war brides,' relocation of war torn people to the US by religious groups in the US, proximity of railroad and other kinds of workers brought in to work in communities far afield from their natal heritages.

    I don’t know Superdestroyer what racial mix or heritage the persons were. I was writing about what was said, not about what race they were. It doesn’t matter to me what bloodline said such things. I think I stated that here in comments earlier also.

    I know you keep imagining I was “comfortable,” but more careful readers here, note that I've said now for the third time, I was not 'comfortable.' How can a woman like me alone in such a situ be 'comfortable'? I admit, I don’t know how to do that. I wished instead, I'd had able warriors, preferable in full bronze over batting, watching from somewhere near by.

    I'm a post-trauma specialist Superdestroyer. There is no way to judge whether 4 men or 2 men, or one man, or ten women ….in any proximity are packing or not, are carrying hidden landmines in their minds or not.

    I think that my knowledge of 'the worst of the worst' of what humans can be/do to one another, gives me reason to have fear. Your thought is that “risk of physical violence was extremely low.” But, my witness is different.

    The word 'accost' that you imagined, means aggressive. I was other than that Superdestroyer. I was speaking conversationally to the men, and I have a natural voice so soft that people tell me constantly to 'speak up,' because it is so low and, well, soft. Could I shriek if need be? Yes, if urgent. But, in this case, your imaginings do not accurately reflect the reality.

    This is just my two cents

    Most of the commenters here are telling the stories of their own lives, their own specific, not global, but “I was there” direct witness, and how they found, are finding their ways through. I think that is reasoned and worthy to the discussion, and furthers it. Most are trying to see more than one side to matters critical to all of us.

    And lastly of all, although it is off-topic, I think the issue you brought up about renegade DA's, not only the case you mentioned, but many others, that involve 'defendants' of all colors being charged wrongly, is an ongoing travesty. I am interested in what grabs hold of such men who are DA's and why they lose reason. Losing reason is not beyond any of us. Extended loss of reason is, I think, worthy of ongoing cultural study and self-study, both.

    dr.e

  • archangel

    Superdestroyer wrote: “Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low.”

    dear Super destroyer. I agree there are many different kinds of conflicts, as you have mentioned, and many are unjust and wrong.

    And, also, I think holding all these many different incidents altogether as 'same kind' no matter the factual aspects and details of all involved, makes it difficult to sort and address them with some usefulness in our larger culture.

    To hold all levels of conflict together as though they all have the same underlying factors makes them into a non-differentiated issue that cannot be solved.

    I think that's why so many commenters here are speaking of specific eyewitness: many of us are continuing to learn our ways through by trying to understand and analyze not just others, but also ourselves, our own reactions, too.

    In this article, I wrote about 1% action/ influence or less, being countable as progress. That includes self-analysis. Without asking what stands behind my own fears, aversions, instant affront, in myself, as best I can, I don’t know that we can keep the more safe world, the more bridged world, we all somewhere in our lives, hope for.

    If noting a problem in our culture is a small progress, if intervening in a problem to attempt to seed something useful and new, is a kind of small fastener for a new and better way, then self analysis, tightens those new fasteners… so that new ideas and trajectories can actually happen and continue to evolve.

    That is what I would like to bless over all, Superdestroyer.

    I do not invalidate your views of your experiences nonetheless.

    You mentioned my 'feeling comfortable to accost white men…' I looked through my article and did not see anywhere that I referenced these four men as 'white' as you note in your comments. That's not the way I thought of them. I was snagged by their behavior, not by whatever race they might be.

    I don’t know if they were 'white,' by whatever standard the dominant culture might apply. I can see how you might have assumed they were though. There is an odd almost collective idea in our culture that I think we might need be inoculated against… that if there's trouble, we might all jump to imagine it's between those who the news media perseverates on… either of the two sides understood night after night, as the current and ongoing 'alien other.'

    But, the men were, light-skinned. And I have no idea if they were white, as I reflected in my article. Using a race moniker for any individual, has for decades in our country, been pretty debatable as we find via DNA testing that so many are mixtures of many backgrounds… as I also wrote in the article…re the multi- heritages each person carries in our times.

    If I did not state my point strongly or repetitively enough, I can say it another way here now: that the issues regarding 'racially tagged' opprobrium are as much, at root, about behavior… and unlaid ghosts and old covert angers, unhealed wounds, self-protection born of a priori trauma, grief, misunderstandings, unforgiven grudges, and lack of differentiation, rather than race alone. I would hold these as evidences to inquire of, no matter which race a person filled with such opprobrium carries.

    This is just my .02. There appears to be an automatic almost archetypal one-sided reaction in some, to 'race', rather than a reasoned inquiry that can see many sides underlying.

    One of the men might have been east Indian, but I would not know this for certain; especially since the conversation was cut short…. one perhaps was German-African-American-British, one could have been Mexican-Irish, one could have been Korean-Anglo, or Vietnamese-Swedish… all combinations of souls that have come into being in the US as a result of 'war brides,' relocation of war torn people to the US by religious groups in the US, proximity of railroad and other kinds of workers brought in to work in communities far afield from their natal heritages.

    I don’t know Superdestroyer what racial mix or heritage the persons were. I was writing about what was said, not about what race they were. It doesn’t matter to me what bloodline said such things. I think I stated that here in comments earlier also.

    I know you keep imagining I was “comfortable,” but more careful readers here, note that I've said now for the third time, I was not 'comfortable.' How can a woman like me alone in such a situ be 'comfortable'? I admit, I don’t know how to do that. I wished instead, I'd had able warriors, preferable in full bronze over batting, watching from somewhere near by.

    I'm a post-trauma specialist Superdestroyer. There is no way to judge whether 4 men or 2 men, or one man, or ten women ….in any proximity are packing or not, are carrying hidden landmines in their minds or not.

    I think that my knowledge of 'the worst of the worst' of what humans can be/do to one another, gives me reason to have fear. Your thought is that “risk of physical violence was extremely low.” But, my witness is different.

    The word 'accost' that you imagined, means aggressive. I was other than that Superdestroyer. I was speaking conversationally to the men, and I have a natural voice so soft that people tell me constantly to 'speak up,' because it is so low and, well, soft. Could I shriek if need be? Yes, if urgent. But, in this case, your imaginings do not accurately reflect the reality.

    This is just my two cents

    Most of the commenters here are telling the stories of their own lives, their own specific, not global, but “I was there” direct witness, and how they found, are finding their ways through. I think that is reasoned and worthy to the discussion, and furthers it. Most are trying to see more than one side to matters critical to all of us.

    And lastly of all, although it is off-topic, I think the issue you brought up about renegade DA's, not only the case you mentioned, but many others, that involve 'defendants' of all colors being charged wrongly, is an ongoing travesty. I am interested in what grabs hold of such men who are DA's and why they lose reason. Losing reason is not beyond any of us. Extended loss of reason is, I think, worthy of ongoing cultural study and self-study, both.

    dr.e

  • archangel

    Superdestroyer wrote: “Dr Estes felt comfortable verbally accosting whites because the risk of physical violence was extremely low.”

    dear Super destroyer. I agree there are many different kinds of conflicts, as you have mentioned, and many are unjust and wrong.

    And, also, I think holding all these many different incidents altogether as 'same kind' no matter the factual aspects and details of all involved, makes it difficult to sort and address them with some usefulness in our larger culture.

    To hold all levels of conflict together as though they all have the same underlying factors makes them into a non-differentiated issue that cannot be solved.

    I think that's why so many commenters here are speaking of specific eyewitness: many of us are continuing to learn our ways through by trying to understand and analyze not just others, but also ourselves, our own reactions, too.

    In this article, I wrote about 1% action/ influence or less, being countable as progress. That includes self-analysis. Without asking what stands behind my own fears, aversions, instant affront, in myself, as best I can, I don’t know that we can keep the more safe world, the more bridged world, we all somewhere in our lives, hope for.

    If noting a problem in our culture is a small progress, if intervening in a problem to attempt to seed something useful and new, is a kind of small fastener for a new and better way, then self analysis, tightens those new fasteners… so that new ideas and trajectories can actually happen and continue to evolve.

    That is what I would like to bless over all, Superdestroyer.

    I do not invalidate your views of your experiences nonetheless.

    You mentioned my 'feeling comfortable to accost white men…' I looked through my article and did not see anywhere that I referenced these four men as 'white' as you note in your comments. That's not the way I thought of them. I was snagged by their behavior, not by whatever race they might be.

    I don’t know if they were 'white,' by whatever standard the dominant culture might apply. I can see how you might have assumed they were though. There is an odd almost collective idea in our culture that I think we might need be inoculated against… that if there's trouble, we might all jump to imagine it's between those who the news media perseverates on… either of the two sides understood night after night, as the current and ongoing 'alien other.'

    But, the men were, light-skinned. And I have no idea if they were white, as I reflected in my article. Using a race moniker for any individual, has for decades in our country, been pretty debatable as we find via DNA testing that so many are mixtures of many backgrounds… as I also wrote in the article…re the multi- heritages each person carries in our times.

    If I did not state my point strongly or repetitively enough, I can say it another way here now: that the issues regarding 'racially tagged' opprobrium are as much, at root, about behavior… and unlaid ghosts and old covert angers, unhealed wounds, self-protection born of a priori trauma, grief, misunderstandings, unforgiven grudges, and lack of differentiation, rather than race alone. I would hold these as evidences to inquire of, no matter which race a person filled with such opprobrium carries.

    This is just my .02. There appears to be an automatic almost archetypal one-sided reaction in some, to 'race', rather than a reasoned inquiry that can see many sides underlying.

    One of the men might have been east Indian, but I would not know this for certain; especially since the conversation was cut short…. one perhaps was German-African-American-British, one could have been Mexican-Irish, one could have been Korean-Anglo, or Vietnamese-Swedish… all combinations of souls that have come into being in the US as a result of 'war brides,' relocation of war torn people to the US by religious groups in the US, proximity of railroad and other kinds of workers brought in to work in communities far afield from their natal heritages.

    I don’t know Superdestroyer what racial mix or heritage the persons were. I was writing about what was said, not about what race they were. It doesn’t matter to me what bloodline said such things. I think I stated that here in comments earlier also.

    I know you keep imagining I was “comfortable,” but more careful readers here, note that I've said now for the third time, I was not 'comfortable.' How can a woman like me alone in such a situ be 'comfortable'? I admit, I don’t know how to do that. I wished instead, I'd had able warriors, preferable in full bronze over batting, watching from somewhere near by.

    I'm a post-trauma specialist Superdestroyer. There is no way to judge whether 4 men or 2 men, or one man, or ten women ….in any proximity are packing or not, are carrying hidden landmines in their minds or not.

    I think that my knowledge of 'the worst of the worst' of what humans can be/do to one another, gives me reason to have fear. Your thought is that “risk of physical violence was extremely low.” But, my witness is different.

    The word 'accost' that you imagined, means aggressive. I was other than that Superdestroyer. I was speaking conversationally to the men, and I have a natural voice so soft that people tell me constantly to 'speak up,' because it is so low and, well, soft. Could I shriek if need be? Yes, if urgent. But, in this case, your imaginings do not accurately reflect the reality.

    This is just my two cents

    Most of the commenters here are telling the stories of their own lives, their own specific, not global, but “I was there” direct witness, and how they found, are finding their ways through. I think that is reasoned and worthy to the discussion, and furthers it. Most are trying to see more than one side to matters critical to all of us.

    And lastly of all, although it is off-topic, I think the issue you brought up about renegade DA's, not only the case you mentioned, but many others, that involve 'defendants' of all colors being charged wrongly, is an ongoing travesty. I am interested in what grabs hold of such men who are DA's and why they lose reason. Losing reason is not beyond any of us. Extended loss of reason is, I think, worthy of ongoing cultural study and self-study, both.

    dr.e

  • cosmoetica

    Regardless of the POV, SD will simply pick and choose what is comfy w his presuppositions, as that is the exceptional argument's raison d'etre.

    But, for every incident that he can reel off about a poor white man's testes' reascending out of fear I can reel off another ten in the reveres; and I'm white. Doubtless, several fold more could be spoken of from a person of color.

    But I'm scared, my position in life is not as set as it once was. I'm not guaranteed the job I used to be over the darker guy over there. That's unfair, that's racism in reverse.

    Grow up. Those very facts suggest that many others have.

  • cosmoetica

    Regardless of the POV, SD will simply pick and choose what is comfy w his presuppositions, as that is the exceptional argument's raison d'etre.

    But, for every incident that he can reel off about a poor white man's testes' reascending out of fear I can reel off another ten in the reveres; and I'm white. Doubtless, several fold more could be spoken of from a person of color.

    But I'm scared, my position in life is not as set as it once was. I'm not guaranteed the job I used to be over the darker guy over there. That's unfair, that's racism in reverse.

    Grow up. Those very facts suggest that many others have.

  • cosmoetica

    Regardless of the POV, SD will simply pick and choose what is comfy w his presuppositions, as that is the exceptional argument's raison d'etre.

    But, for every incident that he can reel off about a poor white man's testes' reascending out of fear I can reel off another ten in the reveres; and I'm white. Doubtless, several fold more could be spoken of from a person of color.

    But I'm scared, my position in life is not as set as it once was. I'm not guaranteed the job I used to be over the darker guy over there. That's unfair, that's racism in reverse.

    Grow up. Those very facts suggest that many others have.

  • http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress JillyDybka

    http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/review.asp?… < — regarding the assembly line stories, Dr E, this is a good book.

    I hear the n-word all the time at work if I walk around campus (HBCU) — the kids say it all the time.

  • http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress JillyDybka

    http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/review.asp?… < — regarding the assembly line stories, Dr E, this is a good book.

    I hear the n-word all the time at work if I walk around campus (HBCU) — the kids say it all the time.

  • http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress JillyDybka

    http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/review.asp?… < — regarding the assembly line stories, Dr E, this is a good book.

    I hear the n-word all the time at work if I walk around campus (HBCU) — the kids say it all the time.

  • archangel

    thank you for the reference to the short story writer JillyD. I just read up on her as per your link. I will look for her work.
    dr.e

  • archangel

    thank you for the reference to the short story writer JillyD. I just read up on her as per your link. I will look for her work.
    dr.e

  • archangel

    thank you for the reference to the short story writer JillyD. I just read up on her as per your link. I will look for her work.
    dr.e

  • Daskleiben

    They call it the “WHITE HOUSE” for a reason and that is because it will always be occupied by a WHITE man (or Woman).

    Still, Obama is a NIGGER and that is that….

  • Daskleiben

    They call it the “WHITE HOUSE” for a reason and that is because it will always be occupied by a WHITE man (or Woman).

    Still, Obama is a NIGGER and that is that….

  • Daskleiben

    They call it the “WHITE HOUSE” for a reason and that is because it will always be occupied by a WHITE man (or Woman).

    Still, Obama is a NIGGER and that is that….

  • Raechel

    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

  • Raechel

    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

  • Raechel

    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

  • john1213

    Obama is a NIGGER! and a marxist at that!He is loved by all of Americas enemies(Iran,communist China,North Korea,Taliban,radical muslims world wide).Drill now! and keep the White House…..WHITE!

  • john1213

    Obama is a NIGGER! and a marxist at that!He is loved by all of Americas enemies(Iran,communist China,North Korea,Taliban,radical muslims world wide).Drill now! and keep the White House…..WHITE!

  • john1213

    Obama is a NIGGER! and a marxist at that!He is loved by all of Americas enemies(Iran,communist China,North Korea,Taliban,radical muslims world wide).Drill now! and keep the White House…..WHITE!

  • IHTENGRS

    THIERS NO WAY A BLACK MAN WILL WIN,THE YOUNG PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR HIM JUST TO SHOW THIER NOT RACIST THEY WILL CHANGE THIER MINDS WHEN THEY ENTER THE WORK FORCE AND START TO PAY FOR THESE LOWLIFE DIRTBAGS. MY NIECE WORKS FOR THE STATE OF CT. AND HERES HOW IT WORKS, THESE WOMAN HAVE A COUPLE KIDS AND OF COURSE DONT HAVE HUSBANDS OR EVEN KNOW OR CARE WHO THE FATHERS ARE THEY CALL THE STATE AND TELL THEM THEY HAVE TO PUT THIER KIDS IN FOSTER CARE,BY LAW THE STATE TAKES THEM SO THE GIRLS CAN GO TO SCHOOL,GET A JOB AND GET THIER KIDS BACK, HOWEVER IF THEY GET A JOB THEY HAVE TO PAY A PERCENTAGE BACK TO THE STATE FOR THIER KIDS CARE SO THE LOWLIFE MOMS (MOSTLY BLACK) DONT GET JOBS GET PREGNANT AGAIN AND HAVE TWO OR THREE MORE KIDS CALL STATE AGAIN AND SAY YOU GOTS TO TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS I CANT AFFORD IT, AND BY LAW THE STATE OF CT. TAKES THEM. WHAT THE FUCK . . SO YOU PEOPLE VOTE FOR THIS STUPID NIGGER GO AHEAD ASSHOLES HE WONT WIN ANYWAY THIERS TO MANY PEOPLE LIKE ME IN THIS COUNTRY WHO HATES NIGGERS, THATS RIGHT I SAID NIGGERS.

  • IHTENGRS

    THIERS NO WAY A BLACK MAN WILL WIN,THE YOUNG PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR HIM JUST TO SHOW THIER NOT RACIST THEY WILL CHANGE THIER MINDS WHEN THEY ENTER THE WORK FORCE AND START TO PAY FOR THESE LOWLIFE DIRTBAGS. MY NIECE WORKS FOR THE STATE OF CT. AND HERES HOW IT WORKS, THESE WOMAN HAVE A COUPLE KIDS AND OF COURSE DONT HAVE HUSBANDS OR EVEN KNOW OR CARE WHO THE FATHERS ARE THEY CALL THE STATE AND TELL THEM THEY HAVE TO PUT THIER KIDS IN FOSTER CARE,BY LAW THE STATE TAKES THEM SO THE GIRLS CAN GO TO SCHOOL,GET A JOB AND GET THIER KIDS BACK, HOWEVER IF THEY GET A JOB THEY HAVE TO PAY A PERCENTAGE BACK TO THE STATE FOR THIER KIDS CARE SO THE LOWLIFE MOMS (MOSTLY BLACK) DONT GET JOBS GET PREGNANT AGAIN AND HAVE TWO OR THREE MORE KIDS CALL STATE AGAIN AND SAY YOU GOTS TO TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS I CANT AFFORD IT, AND BY LAW THE STATE OF CT. TAKES THEM. WHAT THE FUCK . . SO YOU PEOPLE VOTE FOR THIS STUPID NIGGER GO AHEAD ASSHOLES HE WONT WIN ANYWAY THIERS TO MANY PEOPLE LIKE ME IN THIS COUNTRY WHO HATES NIGGERS, THATS RIGHT I SAID NIGGERS.

  • IHTENGRS

    THIERS NO WAY A BLACK MAN WILL WIN,THE YOUNG PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR HIM JUST TO SHOW THIER NOT RACIST THEY WILL CHANGE THIER MINDS WHEN THEY ENTER THE WORK FORCE AND START TO PAY FOR THESE LOWLIFE DIRTBAGS. MY NIECE WORKS FOR THE STATE OF CT. AND HERES HOW IT WORKS, THESE WOMAN HAVE A COUPLE KIDS AND OF COURSE DONT HAVE HUSBANDS OR EVEN KNOW OR CARE WHO THE FATHERS ARE THEY CALL THE STATE AND TELL THEM THEY HAVE TO PUT THIER KIDS IN FOSTER CARE,BY LAW THE STATE TAKES THEM SO THE GIRLS CAN GO TO SCHOOL,GET A JOB AND GET THIER KIDS BACK, HOWEVER IF THEY GET A JOB THEY HAVE TO PAY A PERCENTAGE BACK TO THE STATE FOR THIER KIDS CARE SO THE LOWLIFE MOMS (MOSTLY BLACK) DONT GET JOBS GET PREGNANT AGAIN AND HAVE TWO OR THREE MORE KIDS CALL STATE AGAIN AND SAY YOU GOTS TO TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS I CANT AFFORD IT, AND BY LAW THE STATE OF CT. TAKES THEM. WHAT THE FUCK . . SO YOU PEOPLE VOTE FOR THIS STUPID NIGGER GO AHEAD ASSHOLES HE WONT WIN ANYWAY THIERS TO MANY PEOPLE LIKE ME IN THIS COUNTRY WHO HATES NIGGERS, THATS RIGHT I SAID NIGGERS.

  • 3wood

    Yea thats bad but what about the young blacks that sit next to you on the train and every-other word is NIGGER this and NIGGER that. I wonder why all the white women are scared to death to say a word to them as well as men also. Knowing if you did a 16 year old will pull out a gun and end your life for nothing. At least in the 40s-60s our fathers new if a NIGGER dared to confront a white person they would at least get the shit beat out of them or possibly hung and burned like a “Strange Fruit”. great song

  • 3wood

    Yea thats bad but what about the young blacks that sit next to you on the train and every-other word is NIGGER this and NIGGER that. I wonder why all the white women are scared to death to say a word to them as well as men also. Knowing if you did a 16 year old will pull out a gun and end your life for nothing. At least in the 40s-60s our fathers new if a NIGGER dared to confront a white person they would at least get the shit beat out of them or possibly hung and burned like a “Strange Fruit”. great song

  • 3wood

    Yea thats bad but what about the young blacks that sit next to you on the train and every-other word is NIGGER this and NIGGER that. I wonder why all the white women are scared to death to say a word to them as well as men also. Knowing if you did a 16 year old will pull out a gun and end your life for nothing. At least in the 40s-60s our fathers new if a NIGGER dared to confront a white person they would at least get the shit beat out of them or possibly hung and burned like a “Strange Fruit”. great song

  • Raechel

    Racist people are so ignorant.
    Y'all hate Michelle/Barack for being black?
    What shallow idiots.

    BUSH is the one you should hate.

  • Raechel

    Racist people are so ignorant.
    Y'all hate Michelle/Barack for being black?
    What shallow idiots.

    BUSH is the one you should hate.

  • Raechel

    Racist people are so ignorant.
    Y'all hate Michelle/Barack for being black?
    What shallow idiots.

    BUSH is the one you should hate.

  • PeterGriffin

    I think we should vote for a guy because he uses the word “change” often. Reminds me of a 2-year old espousing the word “cookie”.

    Will the real Obama please stand up. Check out the facts on his past on http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?…

  • Aguila

    While we're on the subject of racism, can any one of you liberal geniuses out there tell me:
    1) How often does the Congressional White Caucus meet?
    2) What channel in White Entertainment Television on?
    3) What benefits can I get from the National Association for the Advancement of White People?

    Sound ridiculous? It sure does. Yet all you liberals seem to accept the Congressional Black Caucus, BET, and NAACP without question. Who is perpetuating racism in America? Racist niggers like Jessee Jackson, Al Sharpton, Jerimiah Wright, Michelle Obama, and Raechel above. I rest my case, Your Honor.

  • DR_DAVID_DUKE

    Aguila. GOOD JOB. You know, all through my military career, civilian career and all the places I've been in the U.S. have I ever not heard black people openly use some form of racism. True too is the simple fact that black comedians constantly refer to whites as dumb and constantly use the word NIGGER. Of course NIGGER hardly ever gets bleeped out. It's acceptable as long as a black says it. You know, blacks should really start learning to appreciate whites more. I mean, most of the tax monies go to help them supposedly advance. Advance in what, stupidity? But, I guess we're really the stupid ones. It's so funny how the majority of people believe that blacks are the deprived minority. Wake-up you damned dumb fools!!! Take any average white guy and see if he can qualify for what the government has for handouts. Are you done researching? Yeah, shouldn't have taken long. That's right, there are none. But, take any average black guy and see what he can qualify for. Ahhhh. WOW!!!! Look at all of these grants, free housing, free insurance $3500 towards a car so he can try to get a job, free schooling for him and his children, free food (foodstamps) and reimbursement for using public transportation and the list goes on…. But who pays for all of these “HANDOUTS” for the blacks??? Yeah, that's right, the working white class!!! “Oh, those poor deprived black people. They only steal, market drugs,rape and commit more crimes than any other race in the U.S. because we enslaved them over 100 years ago. We should tax the crapt out everyone who works for a living and give 60% of those taxed dollars to those poor, confused and deprived black people”. Ha ha. Oh, how about the state tests. Lets see. I, along with 14 other people took the test to get in to the state prison for employment. Funny thing. I scored a 94%, second highest score to a younger white guy who had a 98%. There were 2 positions open. I should have been given the job. Guess what? They went to the 7th highest scorer, a black guy, for the second job. Why? I was told this right from the representatives mouth, “I'm sorry Mr. ———, but we had to give your opportunity to the black gentleman, Mr. ———. He only scored a 76% but we can grace (them) up to a 20% curve. I do apologize and we will hang on to your score record for another 30 days in case we get an opening.” I'm a veteran and he was not. He gets a 20% curve for being a fully upright ape. What a bunch of bull!!!! Oh yes, they are so deprived. We should give them more. All of the white working class should just send their entire damned check every week to the NAACP !!!!! Yes, be stupid, vote for Obama, so that all the blacks don't riot and burn every town and city to the ground because they didn't get their way, be afraid dumb white people, be afraid of what the blacks will do to you and your home if the great BLACK MOSSIAH doesn't get elected. You stupid chicken crapt morons. Be a real hero for your own children, friends, relatives and yourself. Vote with your own mind not because you're afraid of the blacks or you feel that they need a chance to lead. Wake-up!!! Come on. They have been openly leading and dictating just about every damn thing in this country for sometime, around the mid-seventies actually, now. Look how screwed up things get when you turn a bunch of baboons into the mix. You get a jungle!!!

  • Notziway666

    Shut the fuck up u dumb nigger bitch u fucking spook the reason there are ghettos is cuz of u fuckin shines dirty filthy fucks, your like a fuckin desease that just keeps spreading every city u step in is fuckin ruined, who the fuck in their right mind would want to live with u fuckin filthy pigs, i i were those men and u comfronted me id smack the fucking taste outta ur mouth, i hope theres another civil war so we can get rid of u fucking dirty coons. Go back to africa. And if niggerama does win he'll probably get shot anyway dumb bitch, fuckin niggers have more rights than whites wtf. fuck u i hope u all fuckin die women children all u dirty fucking grease monkeys.

  • fuckosamabama

    Dr david duke u are a real hero in my eyes, as for voting for and idiot it wont be me bacause , im not afraid of fucking apes they bleed just like everyone else, i hope they do riot , itll just give people like me a reason to clean up fuckin shop.

  • fuckosamabama

    you didnt do shit u =dumb fuck, ur a pussie just like everyone else go tell your war stories somewhere else, id smack the shit outta u if u even ever attempted to kick or stab me that would be the end of your miserable being. Go die and rot somewhere. pussy.

  • jq40

    This story and many of these comments make me very sad. I disagree with both Obama's–I believe what Michelle meant was what she said–I think her husband is a socialist bent on transforming this county into a more European style socialist state–I'm not going to vote for him–Not because he's black though, but because we could not be more polar opposites when it comes to the way I feel our Country should be run. I'm a hardcore Liberatarian with anarcho-capitolist leanings and have descided to go with McCain.

    I do however give credit where credit is due–Senetor and Mrs. Obama are a credit to Black Americans everywhere and I am happy that we as a nation have finally taken another step to be a more inclusive society.

    as for the guy that said that WORD in Starbucks–he's an idiot–as for the rest of you who can't seem to say anything even remotely intellegent — let it go– If that's all you can think of to say I feel so sorry for you–your lives must be so barren of any substance. Do us all a favor you have proven it here that you are far to ignornat to exercise you right to to vote–so don't I know Senetor McCain doesn't want your support so really there's no point–crawl back underneath the rock from whence you came.

  • raggy

    I have tried to wade through most of the opinions and keep an open mind about things. But living in North East Texas where it is so plain to see who is voting for who. You can ride through any neighborhood and just know by the sign in the yard if a black or white person lives there. When you drive through a prominate black area all you see is Obama signs, its the same with McCain in the white neighborhoods. This election is NOT about who can help our country, its about race.

    On the subject of race. I have been privileged to live all over this great country and will tell you one thing. I have met lots of people, some white, some black and a few niggers. I hope you caught what I'm trying to say. You don't have to be black to be a nigger. Some of the sorriest humans I ever met were white. If your not contributing to the better good of this country and your living off our tax dollars, Im sorry but your a nigger.

    Randy

  • no_obama_for_pres

    Obama is a liar, he will not do as he says. There is no experience at the executive level, being a senator for a short time does not give experience to lead the country. It’s pathetic that there are so many persons that may vote for obama because he is black not because of the skill set.. or the severe lack there of! No way will I or any persons I know will vote for Obama. Stop pissing and moaning about being black, your no longer a minority… facts are the white population is the minority after considering the Black, and Mexican population. Keep in mind over half are not in the stats due to the fact they are illegal and are ghosted in surveys. We can’t have white TV, it’s racist! That’s pathetic that there are people like u crying about being black but the white population is so restricted cuz what we do or say may be racist, it’s only going to get worse with a black man in the white house. I say right on to the guys in the coffee shop at least they have the balls to say what they feel, after all it’s suppose to be equal rights. Remember the blacks that beat the white truck driver in LA? Probably not.. He was white. If it was a black man we would be hearing it for 30 years. Stop the pity party are you not educated to the fact the whites where the first slaves in Rome? You must accept the fact cuz they are not going to change. There are a lot of people out there that are sick of all the whining, NAACP and all the other black watchdogs. Like I said when the whites that are gathered get fed up enough its not going to be pleasant.
    Tired of The Whining. How long do you think he will last before the extremists get hold of him? They are out there.

  • FreeMan54

    Guess what? I ain't voting for a nigger either.

  • booger

    To all my white brothers and sisters… Lord help us all.

    Most important to watch.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ROOriYvJM4&feat

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nU3fNh-PRk&feat

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&feat

    The truth is the truth and cannot be denied.
    There is a very liberal social and political change
    taking place not only in American but throughout the world.

    Yes I am proudly a middle aged white man that has gradually seen our
    homogenized country go down the tubes. A recipe for disaster like every other
    great white society of the past… has been diluted by mongralization and non homogeny.

    Thank god I do not have children that will be required to live in the declination
    of a mixed and falling america and/or Europe. Nor will I be around to see it.

    Sincerely

    .

  • republikan

    When u talk like that, it sounds to me that ur nothing less but a goddamn MF nigger who hates being born a nigger and tries to spread around ur own self-contempt. U should go to Africa too, u nasty piece of shit ! Or else go to Iraq and get killed. America doesn't need people like you*** Go Mc Cain 08 !!!

  • RobertWayne

    The Ku Klux Klan was started to combat yankee asswipes and their tools the former Negro slaves to destroy what was left of the South. We need another uprising like those former Klansmen were doing in 1865.

  • RobertWayne

    This was obviously a lot of bullshit put out by some wetback spic who hates the white man and is on the same side as the nigger shine……at least for now.

  • RobertWayne

    David Duke……I couldn't agree with you more. You're 100% correct.

  • numbawunwhiteboy

    Racism is equal now days. White people are discriminated against just as much as blacks. Yes, there is white people that are very racist against blacks, but at the same time there are just as many racist black people. When a white person says the word “nigger” its a big deal and everybody flips out about it. why? because black people are sensitive to that word. But when a black person calls me a cracker or something else similar, its no big deal. what if im sensitive to being called a cracker? black people can call white people whatever they want and its never racist, but if I call a black person a nigger im a terrible person. I dont know about you but i dont understand that. If black people want white people to respect them enough to not call them niggers then they should give white people the same respect and not call them names. Youre supposed to treat others how you like to be treated. so as long as black people can say cracker, whitey, or whatever else they call white people, i dont see anything wrong with a white man saying nigger… do you?

  • http://www.themoderatevoice.com/ JOE GANDELMAN, Editor-In-Chief

    Phocknigs left a comment on TMV that did not merely go over the line it justifies something I do not do: immediate banning. Racist comments (this was not even a close call) is not welcome on TMV and we don’t allow language like that here.

  • phocknigs

    Fuck all you niggers. Go back to fucking Africa, you horses asses. Take your bullshit back home, we don't want you here in OUR country, you fucking niggers.

  • N_0bama

    I would have to agree with you, I'm racist to a degree for example there is a difference in between niggers and black people, I have many black friends but there are people who degrade and deficate our city streets turning them into shithole crime infested cities, ex Baltimore, Philly, D.C, Seriously just drive to one of these places and you will see what I am talking about, even down in salisbury maryland where I live, there have been many crimes recently mainly blacks and mexicans, example, there were 3 black kids, 2 girls 19 and 16 and then a boy who was 16, they asked a white girl for a ride home she gave it to them, as they went home the niggers started to demand things from her then they pulled a knife out on her and stabbed her, she died in a field using her last breath to call the cops, why did she die? hmm. because some nigger decided that he needed a small amount of cash, niggers have no value for human life and will kill without mercy, another example there was a decent hard working black man around 25 years old who worked his way up from the bottom well 3 niggers decided one night that they needed some money so they find this guy on a random street and for no reason start beating the shit out of him, they killed him that night and when his family went to go identify the body, the only way they could identify it was through fingerprints because his face was so horribly smashed in that they couldnt tell who it is, this guy is now dead because some niggers decided it was time to make 20 dollars and couldnt give a fuck how they got it, there have also been multiple robberies in salisbury, niggers walking around looking for people at night to threaten with baseball bats and take peoples stuff. In my family my 13 year old cousin was raped by a nigger who was 40 in NC, the list can go on and on and on, I'm not going to say it's just blacks though because I have some really good black friends, in fact I think I know just as many white and mexican niggers as I do black.

  • garydoubelu

    until black america can quit acting like a pack of animals and stop thinking that America owes them, you're right this will never be an equal country. get a job , get off welfare, quit blaming the past for your troubles. i am an american indian if you want to talk about the past.

  • scraaas

    Blacks are more racist than white folk these days, Name a black that did not vote for Obama because he's black. If Obama did not have the white vote he would have flat lost big-time.

  • winemkr

    To me a niggger is nothing but a lazy ungrateful asshole. It doesn't matter what their skin color is.

    Niggers suck, that's all there is to it.

    Find something else to fixate on, like for instance the government creating a permanent welfare society for the white and black niggers of America.