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Posted by on Sep 6, 2008 in At TMV | 55 comments

Stupid, Unpatriotic, Wrong and Stupid (NOT?) (YES?)

flags.jpgSEE THE UPDATE BELOW: It is now claimed that the story below resulted from a some dirty tricks and the flags were destined for other events, but stolen.

UPDATE AGAIN: Sources from Fox News (Yes… I know) are disputing the claims in the update and say that the flags were definitely found “stored” in Hefty Bags “near a dumpster.” Odd storage if true, but apparently the game is afoot on this one.

Here is a picture from the Denver Post (with a hat tip to Hot Air) which I missed earlier today but seriously got my blood boiling. It was taken at Invesco Field, the site of the Democrats’ big party for Barack Obama’s speech, after the lights went down and everyone left. You can click through the links for the entire story, but it seems that this was the fate of hundreds of flags used at the field for the speech.

We have flags at my home and at our camp and other places among our family. I was raised by an honest-to-God WW2 war hero, (make of that what you like) but we learned that one has respect for the flag, and this is not it. I’m not alone in this, and you’ll find plenty of people across red and blue America who feel the same way. This is simply not done.

Am I saying that you don’t have the right to treat a flag this way? Not at all. The protection of your rights to free speech are clear in my book. You can actually burn a flag in the streets if that’s your choice to express your opinion about the government. You can also put a white sheet over your head, cut a couple of holes in it for your eyes, and march down the street chanting about how evil the “darkies” are. I’ll defend your right to do it, but I’ll also call you a hateful, ignorant ass.

Let me be very clear that I am not personally blaming Illinois Senator Barack Obama or Delaware Senator Joe Biden for this. But there was somebody in charge of the planning and logistics for this event who should have known better and done better. This is completely unacceptable to me, and they should find that person and hold them accountable. It’s not just stupid, unpatriotic, wrong and stupid, but it’s a political disaster as well. They should have at least realized that much if they didn’t actually care about their country’s flag.

UPDATE: The Democrats in charge of the event claim that the flags were STOLEN and were heading for another site. They probably could have been stored better, but if this is the case, then there was at least one GOP operative playing a VERY VERY VERY dirty trick.

YET ANOTHER UPDATE: See the top of the article. This article disputes the dispute, if you will, and claims that the Democrats’ claims are inaccurate and the flags were found in Hefty Bags near a dumpster, which would be odd storage indeed if true. We’ll keep digging on this one.

AND ANOTHER: This source from Colorado contines providing two sides to the story with the DNC saying the flags were “stored and stolen” and the GOP saying they were “rescued” after being found in trashbags near a dumpster. Nothing definitive yet that I can see.

JUST KEEP CHECKING FOR UPDATES AS THEY DON’T SEEM TO END: Courtesy of both people in comments and Ed at Hot Air, the original author has updated his story with even more information which is making the DNC defense look more thin.

I just spoke with the person at Invesco who found the flags and he thinks both sides are exaggerating a bit. The person claims the majority of the bags with flags in them were near the trash, on a dock, and would have been thrown away. The person thinks it was probably an “oversight” by the Democrats rather than any nefarious plot against the flag. But the person doesn’t believe anyone was coming to get them: “The flags were there for a week and a day and no one came looking for them.”

Having spoken to the person who found the bags, it’s difficult to believe that anyone was coming to get them a week after the convention. If so, who was it? I’ve sent a query asking that question.

It seems like some poor intern or volunteer probably made a mistake and McCain campaign used it to pull a gotcha.

This keeps on rolling out, but it’s looking more and more like somebody at the DNC screwed up and put the flags out with the trash. Did some McCain supporters try to capitalize on this? Not out of the question at this point.

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Copyright 2008 The Moderate Voice
  • DdW

    It certainly doesn’t sound good at first glance. But perhaps we should wait for an explanation from the DNC and, just perhaps, we should also post the preliminary response from the DNC that was at the same link posted by Jazz:

    “American flags were proudly waved by the 75,000 people who joined Barack Obama at the Democratic Convention. John McCain should applaud that, but instead his supporters wrongfully took leftover bundles of our flags from the stadium to play a cheap political stunt calling into question our patriotism. On the same day he agrees to join Barack Obama at Ground Zero on September 11, John McCain attacks the patriotism of Obama supporters who so proudly waved the American flag at our historic event in Denver just days ago.”
    —Democratic National Committee Spokeswoman Karen Finney

  • jwest

    They could have been expecting Bill Ayers to walk down the aisle.

    He is pretty famous for standing on flags.

  • cfpete

    I would say that the Republicans might make the same mistake, but I could also imagine McCain going completely insane on those that disrespected the flag.
    So I would imagine the RNC this year has properly disposed of American Flags.
    2000 -2004, not so sure.
    A little bit of difference, makes you think.

  • holymoly3

    Holy GOD! Are you going to correct this SMEAR? How many Rovian tricks are you going to fall for.

    This story is FALSE. Those flags were meant to be distributed at Investco, and they were TAKEN WITHOUT PERMISSION. McCain camp STOLE the flags for a cheap political stunt.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/06/thrown-away-flags-story-f_n_124499.html

  • Ricorun

    If what you say is true holymoly3, the implications are despicable. Honestly, I really really REALLY hope you’re wrong.

  • jwest

    Who ya gonna believe, Huffington Post or your lying eyes?

    Seriously, who is the public going to believe?

    I’m sorry for the democrats on this one, but the track record is just enough and the general perception is such that even if you’re as pure as the driven snow, you’re still going to take a hit.

    You can see it in Shaun’s reaction. As much as he loves the democrat party, he didn’t hesitate to believe they would trash American flags. It’s just something you could imagine some stupid young staffer doing.

    Sometimes, it just sucks to be a democrat.

    • RememberNovember

      Well, when the kool-aid wears off, I guess we’ll see.

  • Updated prominently. Thanks for the update. That would have been a horrible story if it were true. And yes, I missed that one paragraph in the Denver post story, sorry.

  • SCANDAL.
    Did you know that McCain wasn’t wearing a flag pin during his RNC acceptance speech?

    Why does John McCain hate America?

    • RememberNovember

      He only loved America “once he was deprived of her company”- his own words. Spoken during the Michelle Obama brewhaha.

  • jwest

    Hey, cheer up.

    This will only run about 4 or 5 days, so maybe there will be a few people in the country that won’t think the dems are trashing flags.

    Sometime next week on page 14C (in the style section) of the New York Post, there will be a correction issued.

    Everything will be fine then.

  • RememberNovember

    …so then we should put some pictures of flag-draped coffins from Iraq/Afghanistan next to it and compare…oh wait the White House has put a press blackout on those…so which is the greater insult? By the look of it( picture posted) It looks like the flags were rolled up and put into bags for retrieval- how Else are these 5.99 made in China flags supposed to be dealt with? ( I am being fecetious here of course with the China jab, but a heck of a lot of them are made overseas. Thanks NAFTA! Did we really hafta? Oh the irony) Yeah- read another debunked smear. WAy to rush to judgement like so many dittoheads Jazz Minus 10 points for Hufflepuff! Ask yourself first- who took the picture? If it was a vetted organization (AP, Reuters ) it would have the credits. If it was a hackjob stunt- not so much. Patriotism blinds so many and needs to be tempered with reason.

    Much like Inhofe, a complete retard saying this:
    “Regardless of what polls show, Inhofe said, voters will have to ask themselves a question once they get behind the curtain in the voting booth on Election Day.
    “Do you really want to have a guy as commander in chief of this country when you can question whether or not he really loves his country?” he asked.

    “That’s the big question.” (…)

    After he was asked for an explanation on why voters should question Obama’s love for his country, Inhofe issued a written statement on Friday to clarify his earlier comments.

    “Let me be clear,” he said.

    “I am not questioning Sen. Obama’s patriotism, but you have to question why at times he seems so obviously opposed to public displays of patriotism and national pride, like wearing an American flag lapel pin.””

    WTF? What a pablum puking idiot!!! Does he actually listen to the stupidity that comes out of his mouth?

    but you can’t show the flag draped coffin of one who gave everyting for this country…nononono that wouln’t be right…too upsetting.

    Welcome to Bizarro America. We Am Perfekt.

  • DdW

    jwest:

    How in the heck can you come up with conclusions–and smears–like this:

    “As much as he (Jazz) loves the democrat party, he didn’t hesitate to believe they would trash American flags”

    Please read again “Right” Convention, Wrong Country?

    • RememberNovember

      jwest is a Townhall troll, didn’t you know? You know those folks who think “Right makes Might” He’s about as moderate as a Nuremburg Rally.
      oh dang, invoked Godwins law….-pts for me,lol.

  • jwest

    Sorry about the mixup, I have trouble lately telling Shaun and Jazz apart.

    Luckily, I found the true story about how those flags were rescued from the garbage dump by some brave vendors and distributed to Boy Scouts.

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/06/mccain-camp-to-chastise-dems-for-discarding-american-flags/

    • RememberNovember

      Fox news, about as reliiable as Daily KOS for non partisan information.
      Next!

  • in a previous thread, jwest pretty much lost all credibility with me as a serious political analyst, as only votes cast for Republicans count in this country. This story, however, continues to be a he said, she said story, and since I posted on it, I’ll keep digging and updating as I find things.

  • Either way, the GOP is disputing the dispute. Updated yet again.

  • pacatrue

    What’s the proper way to dispose of several thousand flags? Is a flag never thrown away? I mean, I was a boy scout. I know how to fold the flag, the proper way to fly it up a mast, touching ground rules, height rules, etc. But, hey, we only had one flag, so I never received training on flag disposal procedures. But I really do hope that whichever random one or two people the DNC hired to take care of the flags, whom may or may not have received appropriate flag disposal training, is taken to represent the patriotism of tens of millions of Americans because that’s perfectly legit.

  • jwest

    Jazz,

    In the previous thread I said that if you didn’t vote for either Barak or McCain, you were simply avoiding a decision – just like voting present.

    Yes, I tend to be the tiniest bit right-of-center, but I believe that’s a good counter to Shaun’s occasional left-of-center thoughts.

    • jwest, I wasn’t originally going to answer you any more, and then I thought about doing an entire new post on this. (Which you don’t merit.) But I will take the time to do one more answer here before we most likely end our political discussions here. You can be as liberal or conservative as you like. You can be the most hard core partisan for either party that you care to be. (And I certainly refute your claims about “tiniest bit right of center” and find you to be a partisan GOP hack in my experience.) The entire point here goes well beyond Democrats or Republicans or Libertarians or liberals or conservatives or moderates. The only point of significance is that you don’t have the authority to pass judgment about how any other individual citizen casts their vote if they cast it in good conscience for the candidate they feel best represents their interests.

      It may come as a surprise to you, but we still have an active Communist Party in this country. Most of us despise them and never agree with their views, but in this American system they have a right to their views and to vote for their candidates. And each one of their votes counts for exactly as much as yours. That’s how it is in the actual America, rather than the two party monopoly you picture as America.

      Each person gets the chance to cast their vote for the person (even a write-in not even on the ballot) who they feel will provide the leadership and direction they desire for their community, state and nation. If an insufficient number of other people agree, those candidates will not be elected. If their view *never* gains enough numbers to elect anyone to any office, that doesn’t matter either. They have registered their preference, on the record, for the direction they would personally like to see their government going in. And who knows? If enough people notice those votes, in the future it may take hold and grow into a successful movement. If not, then it won’t. Again, it doesn’t matter.

      When Ross Perot ran for president the first time, more than one in five Americans cast their vote for him. He didn’t capture a single state, but does that mean that one fifth of the country “sat it out” or “wouldn’t make a choice” or whatever other assenine way you choose to phrase it? Or was it a significant group of voices that made the two dominant parties take notice? I say the latter.

      But even if my vote was cast for somebody whose only platform item was to dig more canals, then it’s MY vote. You have no right to it and you have no right to denigrate it as an invalid voice in the political spectrum. Bob Barr isnt’ going to win this election, but he’ll draw about 5% of the vote in a number of states from people who care about REAL conservative values and “small L” libertarian values. Those are real voices of people with real concerns who want their voices heard.

      It’s not MY freaking job to elect YOUR candidate. It’s YOUR freaking job to convince enough other people to vote for your candidate that he wins. What we do with our votes is none of your business, nor are you in any position to sit up upon your high partisan hack horse and claim that we are “voting present” which is insulting, assenine, ignorant and demonstrates that you don’t understand the basic concepts of democracy (with a “small D” just so you don’t explode at the mention of anyone not a Republican) well enough to be taken seriously in a discussion of government or politics. And as long as you maintain this ignorant, insulting position, our conversation is concluded.

      And for the record, just in reference to your “Jazz is so in love with the Democrats” comment, I have never once in my entire life registered as a big “D” Democrat. I was a registered Republican for 25 years and have been a registered small “I” independent since 2005 leaning more and more toward registering as a large “L” Libertarian. So stick your Democrat loving comments where the sun doesn’t shine, since that is yet again another topic where you are talking out your arse and know nothing. I voted for Reagan twice and Bush Sr. twice. I’ve also voted for Democrats and 3rd party candidates at all levels.

      In closing, just to keep this really classy, bite my fat white ass.

  • From http://www.usa-flag-site.org:

    Furthermore, many municipalities have contacted USA Flag Site for what they should do with unserviceable flags. The only definitive answer is found in the US Flag Code. TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 8(k). It states:

    “The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning”

    Which begs the question: which would have been the bigger story, finding unused flags near a dumpster, or burning unused flags after festivities?

    On a personal note, I used to be a Boy Scout, and was allowed to be a flag bearer during my early school years. We brought the flag in at the notion of rain, or snow. The flag, today, has been commercialized much more than I would prefer to see.

    Under such circumstances, where you can buy a $.50 flag for your car’s bumper, such things are still undesired, but also unavoidable. I’d like to see us make a pass back to the olden times… but then, there are a lot of things I think of on that, and doubt just as much it will come to be.

  • holymoly3

    Okay Fox News is a bought and paid for RNC operation. For chrissake.

    Here is a neutral news source –

    http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=99204&catid=339

  • holymoly3

    And for chrissake – do they LOOK like garbage? Neatly rolled up? COME ON!

  • jwest

    Holymoly3,

    This is not a situation where the facts matter.

    Just as democrats automatically assume republicans are bible-thumping racists, most Americans believe liberals are flag burning (or dumping) hippies.

    Perception is reality.

  • Marlowecan

    Actually, does anyone know what normally happens to flags after conventions?

    Every convention has thousands of them left lying about. Surely there must be a Convention SOP each party has in place to deal with them.

    Of course, it is silly to stick Obama with this, as this is below his pay grade.
    One might as well blame Sen. Obama for the crappy coffee at DNC.

    But if true, it is a clear embarrassment for the Democratic party.

  • holymoly3

    jwest – yes, I know that is what the republicans hope. That is the only way they win.

    UPI has picked up the official DNC denial of what they are calling ‘the Fox News story’.

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/09/06/Dems_deny_Fox_flag_story/UPI-24741220743610/

    Swift-boating. Remember it?

  • Updated with your link, holymoly3, thanks. Still nothing definitive that I can see. I’d like to see an interview with both the either “vendor” or “janitor” who found them and with the people who “stored” them before we can make a decision. Still a “he said she said” story as near as I can tell.

  • Jazz — your Denver Post story (that included the picture) has an update below the photo. Have you seen it?

    And to all: do you seriously think that somebody would go to the trouble of picking up and carefully rolling 12,000 flags, just so they could thrown away?

  • pacatrue

    I would like to re-utter Marlowe’s question. What IS usually done with the thousands of flags, and, also, thanks Jazz for the link, despite it’s dizzying-ness. Along with Peter_Allen, I could find no statement about disposal other than to burn it when it’s too soiled to keep. Images of Invesco or DNC temporary staff (that’s who we are talking about after all) tossing thousands of flags into a fire would have gone over much better. So, in short, the only thing that they could have done is kept them or re-distributed them — or dispose of them in a respectful manner. Perhaps higher quality bags would have been more patriotic than clearly the cheapo garden bags from Home Depot.

    Anyway, I was intrigued by a couple other sections of the Flag codes. First, we have this one:

    (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

    I would think half the nation’s Fourth of July celebrations either blatantly violate this or get close. I suppose they get around it by having vague blue, red, and white stars that aren’t exactly the flag but are meant to convey flag-ness. Then you have this confusing one:

    (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

    First of all, crap! I wore a flag bandana/hankerchief on my head when my son and I marched in a 4th of July parade a couple years ago. I thought I was honoring America, when I was desecrating it.

    Moreover, I guess the question is whether the flag lapel pin is considered a flag patch or not, because the latter is restricted to people in uniform. Have all those people wearing flag lapel pins been in violation of this rule who weren’t in uniform? Actually desecrating the flag? Perhaps both parties can get away with claiming that the Dems and Republicans are patriotic organizations, so it’s okay. That means I’m now going to get really angry if I see someone independent wearing a flag pin.

  • onleyone

    bob dole/kodos: Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!

    http://tinyurl.com/6gfvce

  • jazz,
    Great comment.

    I just want to say, this is the sort of faux outrages that distract us from the real issues facing this country. We have a crumbling infrastructure, schools falling further behind global standards, an economy left shaky from years of questionable lending that wouldn’t have been possible without deregulation, skyrocketing healthcare costs, two wars that seem impossible to “win” by any reasonable measure….

    …and yet we’re talking about what happens to a bunch of campaign props likely made in China. God, we’re all morons.

    • You’re obviously welcome to that view, Chris, but this is one that I don’t personally feel is a distraction. I may be old fashioned, but if you’re going to order thousands of flags, I think it’s your reponsibility to dispose of them properly and respectfully, only if they are used, soiled, tattered, etc. beyond usefulness, and otherwise they should be made available to others. The Democrats may in fact have taken the steps to do this, and if so, good for them! I’m trying to provide all of the information to get to the truth. It’s an issue for me, though I understand and accept that it’s not an issue for everyone. As I said, I’m an old veteran and probably old fashioned.

  • jwest

    Ouch!

    Jazz, you certainly can take a lot of words to totally miss my point.

    Of course you can vote for whoever you want. If you think that Bugs Bunny embodies the qualities you want in a president, write him in.

    But it does not take away from the reality of the situation. By not being a part of the decision between Barak Obama and John McCain (WHOEVER YOU VOTE FOR), you are deciding to let the rest of the voters choose the next president.

    This isn’t a partisan call for you to go one way or another.

    This is a lesson on the difference between people who take on the responsibility of making tough choices with imperfect options and those who sit on the sidelines.

    Go back, read this comment again, and see if you can comprehend a simple point of reality versus idealism.

    (Oh, and try to keep the personal attacks under control)

    • Goodbye jwest. We’re done. It’s been a trip. You don’t understand democracy and are not a serious person in this sort of debate. I’m not “letting the rest of the voters choose the next president.” I’m voting for my choice. You’re not removed enough from your dedication to the GOP to see that, and see any vote for Barr as damage to McCain. I can’t help you further. Adios.

    • onleyone

      jwest:

      i respect the views expressed in many of your posts, so don’t take this the wrong way… but as far as jazz’s “personal attacks”, you condescended to tell Cfpete to, “Put your big boy pants on and pick one [Column A or Column B].” now, i don’t know what you consider an “attack”, but if that wasn’t a jab at someone’s character, it was still more than a little d!ckish.

      http://xrl.in/erp

      of course, what do i know? as far as you’re concerned, i obviously haven’t manned up enough to put on my “big boy pants” either.

  • jwest

    So long, Jazz.

    It appears I’ve been talking so far over your head that you’re getting a neck ache just trying to keep up.

    When you calm down, try to think through the concept that was spelled out to you. Once you grasp what has been said, I’ll be here to accept your apology.

    You’re a bright guy, Jazz. You’re just not used to thinking at this level.

  • Post updated with more from the original author. This is looking worse for the Dems in terms of incompetence on the part of some low level functionary, but also a definite chance that a GOP operative tried to amplify that to make some hay out of the story.

  • jwest

    Onleyone,

    That “put your big boy pants on” term is (in my world, at least) a harmless way of saying that it’s decision time.

    It’s a bit like “bite my fat white ass”, only with a little more finesse.

  • onleyone

    jwest:

    you may not intend to insult, but over here in my world, even your last comment to jazz is thick with condescension. i’m fairly certain he grasps what you’re saying; i believe he’s simply taking the longer, less cynical (i think you confuse that with “less realistic”) view of the american political landscape. and i don’t care how right you think you are, patronizing an honorable opponent is reprehensible. spiteful and mean is what it is, no matter what side of the aisle you fancy.

  • jonimp9

    jwest: “letting the rest of the voters choose the next president.”

    Why don’t we let your comment develop into its logical conclusion. You say this like there is a way to not let the rest of the voters choose the next president. As if it was your and only your voted that decided. Show me a case when a presidential election was decided by 1 vote. If that were to happen, how many recounts do you think there would be. It would be even worse than the partisan debacle in 2000 (and I don’t have to remind anyone about the hanging chad debate, as if something that subjective could be done in a non-partisan matter.)

  • ktkeith

    Note that the two different stories are not in conflict – and the photos you show support the Democratic version.

    There may well have been flags in trash bags in Dumpsters after the convention. With tens of thousands of people in attendance and huge amounts of decorations, there were likely thousands of pounds of trinkets and displays to be disposed of, no doubt including many flags. Maybe you’d like somebody to go through all the trash from a convention hall and an outdoor football stadium by hand, separate out anything that looks like a flag, and hold a ritual pyre for it, but I doubt anyone did that and I can’t see anything wrong with that. (And do you think that’s what the GOP did with all their trash after their convention?) It doesn’t upset me that flags may have gotten swept up and thrown away after a political convention, and I would assume that’s exactly what happened after each and every political convention that has been held by every US party in history so far.

    But the flags in the black bags shown in your post are obviously brand new and unused. They are clean, rolled neatly, and tied in identical bundles. It doesn’t matter what kinds of bags they are stored in (you can call those “trash bags” if you like, but they don’t have trash in them; why not just call them “flag bags”?). It’s obvious those flags were leftovers from the convention, and I would assume they were going to be used at some later function, if only for reasons of expense.

    Note also that it’s obvious the GOP did not “rescue” any flags from actual trash bags – all the flags they show are neat and brand new. Which means the GOP also allowed the used post-convention flags to go out in the trash, after making a stink about finding them. They simply stole the clean, unused ones for their own use and then bragged about it.

    For God’s sake, grow up and find something real to talk about.

  • elrod

    Reading the back and forth and looking at the pictures, it’s obvious that these flags were intended to be given to some organization to be disposed of properly (VFW?). The only problem is that they had not yet made the arrangements and were still there at the stadium. The presence of Hefty bags does not mean they were going to be trashed as they would have already been throw away with everything else. Being rolled up properly they were obviously awaiting pickup from somebody. At worst, some staffer failed to follow through and make the arrangements.

  • Guest

    We should just forget about the past eight years, roll over, play dead and let them take over the county again because they love Jesus and America more than any of us ever could.

  • elrod

    The Fox News “response to the DNC” is BS. The flags were in the loading dock area of Invesco Field awaiting transfer to the VFW and cemeteries. The term “near a dumpster” means that a dumpster is in the loading dock area. Well, duh. There’s always a dumpster near a loading dock.

    There is nothing odd about the flags being there. It takes a long time to dispose of that many flags if you want to do it properly. If the Democrats wanted to throw away 125,000 flags they would have thrown them away last week with everything else.

    This is a disgusting story from the GOP and doesn’t pass the laugh test.

  • markg8

    The US government is about to take over Fannie May and Freddie Mac incurring $5 trillion dollars in mortgage debt, a whole lot of it bad thanks to Republican fiscal policy, their Vice Presidential candidate is stonewalling and trying to scuttle an investigation into what clearly looks like her abuse of power and what does McCain’s campaign come up with? This stupidity. Unf*ckingbelievable.

  • elrod

    If the DNC had, in fact, planned to throw away thousands of flags then it would be a big story. But it’s quite obvious that that isn’t what happened.

    I’m hoping the DNC takes legal action against the McCain campaign for stealing the flags.

  • elrod

    Jazz,
    You should include the info from Clarissa in her post above. She apparently spoke with some DNC people in Denver today. It was worker who tried to stir up trouble by pushing this bogus story to the GOP. The flags were awaiting transfer; they were not headed for the dumpster.

  • nepr

    I wonder…

    Is there a right to dispose of ones property, even throw it in a dumpster, if you don’t need it anymore?

    If I was to sit in my room, with my crayons, and draw an United Stated of America flag on a piece of paper, would I have created an object of reverence?

    Some people who burn USA flags are just practicing cultural vandalism, but some are asking, “What’s more important, the flag, or my right to burn it?”

    Does someone actually have a right, when merely exercising it exposes them to scorn, ridicule and sanction?

  • Lit3Bolt

    If this is what the USA has become, then GOD. MAY. DAMN. THE. U. S. A.

    All of you turned topsy turvey by this BS, SHAME ON YOU. I hate you. Each and every one of you. Because you care more about a piece of CLOTH than the patriots that shed their blood for it. SO SPARE ME. Your fake outrage does NOT impress. It is BS, and everyone, including yourself, knows it. It is only to to score political points. And you are lying, in effective, to make those points true. So may God Damn All Republicans Forever. This is my deepest wish and my most sacred prayer.

  • StockBoySF

    The real issues are the economy, education, war, etc. I think we need to continue to focus on these. But our flag is America’s most sacred symbol and it needs to be treated with respect. Like Jazz, I agree that if someone wants to burn the flag as part of a protest, then that is their right. Though I would hope that anyone who wants to burn the flag in a protest will only do so after much consideration.

    I read the update where the person says that flags have been there for over a week and would have been thrown away. The question I have is why wasn’t the trash picked up sooner? Don’t they pick up trash more often than every week or two? Or was the trash picked up within the last week and the flags remained? I find it hard to believe that convention officials would actually leave trash sitting in dumpsters for over a week in the hot summer sun without having it picked up.

    At any rate I think the Republicans are throwing our stories to raise the ire against Democrats and throw up a smokescreen around their own failings. The GOP so desperately needs to make this campaign about why the Dems can’t lead the country.

  • Jeff_from_Mpls

    What disturbs me is the low standard of proof we hold for the Democrat Party.

    Their statement imparts two claims:
    1. Yes, we threw the flags in trash bags and set them at the garbage pickup.
    2. We had good intentions.

    I’m willing to take them at their word, because let’s face it, a man can’t read the intentions of another man with any certainty.

    But please, on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is a pretty transparent “I got caught but you can’t prove it” and 10 is “Here’s your proof, now apologize,” this Democrat Party reply is a 1.

    Does this limp denial logically justify the headline: “SHOCK: BOGUS REPUBLICAN FLAG STORY EXPOSED?” Of course not. But it’s good to see the clandestine Democrat-MSM relationship being forced out of the closet, out into the bright light of scrutiny.

  • Well, now. I guess no one has bothered to consider a couple of points. First, it’s illegal to burn trash in Denver. I think perhaps the “proper flag disposal” thing is a bit out of date. We actually don’t need the air pollution, however patriotic. I’m not saying that the flags were going to be disposed of, just pointing out that burning 125,000 flags to show respect for their symbolism isn’t really that great an idea. Which brings me to point two. Do you want to wave a recycled flag? Not refurbished or sanitized in any way; just picked up from the seat at a convention and given to boy scouts (or whatever). I don’t think that’s an especially great idea either.

  • Well? Want to get practical here? Or are we too enamored of these paper and cloth objects to think about trivial matters like public health?

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