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Posted by on Dec 23, 2014 in Crime, Featured, Politics, Race | 51 comments

Wrongly pointing fingers

122214_rudy1

WASHINGTON — It is absurd to have to say this, but New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, activist Al Sharpton and President Obama are in no way responsible for the coldblooded assassination of two police officers in Brooklyn on Saturday. Nor do the tens of thousands of Americans who have demonstrated against police brutality in recent weeks bear any measure of blame.

A disturbed career criminal named Ismaaiyl Brinsley committed this unspeakable atrocity by himself, amid a spree of insane mayhem: Earlier in the day, he shot and critically wounded a woman he had been seeing; later, on a subway platform, he shot and killed himself.

Brinsley’s reported claim to be acting in some warped sense of revenge for the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner was delusional and illegitimate. Reasonable people understand this, of course. But we live in unreasonable times.

Not for the first time, one of the loudest and least temperate voices has been that of former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. “We’ve had four months of propaganda, starting with the president, that everybody should hate the police,” Giuliani said on Fox News. “I don’t care how you want to describe it, that’s what those protests are all about.”

No, no, no. The demonstrations sparked by the exoneration of the officers who killed Brown and Garner were pro-accountability, not anti-police. As I’ve pointed out many times, no one better appreciates the need for an active, engaged police presence than residents of high-crime neighborhoods. But nobody should be expected to welcome policing that treats whole communities as guilty until proved innocent — or a justice system that considers black and brown lives disposable.

New York police officials and union leaders should explain this to the officers who bitterly turned their backs on de Blasio — their commander in chief — as he arrived to pay his respects to slain policemen Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos.

Yet Ed Mullins, president of the police sergeants’ union, made this inflammatory charge: “Mayor de Blasio, the blood of these two officers is clearly on your hands.” And Ray Kelly, a former New York police commissioner, accused de Blasio of running an “anti-police” mayoral campaign and said there was a “firestorm” of anger within the department over remarks de Blasio made regarding Garner’s death.

What did the mayor do to provoke such ire? During the campaign, he spoke out against the city’s stop-and-frisk policy — a stance validated by a federal judge who found the practice discriminatory against African-Americans and Hispanics. And more recently, in talking about the Garner case, de Blasio told of how he had counseled his biracial son to be especially cautious and deferential in any encounter with police.

Saturday’s execution-style killings were immediately condemned in the strongest terms by Sharpton (who, I should note, hosts a daily broadcast on MSNBC, where I am a contributor). Yet Sharpton later reported receiving death threats, apparently because of his role in calling attention to the Brown and Garner cases and helping organize the “Hands Up” and “I Can’t Breathe” demonstrations.

Those protest rallies were timely and necessary, however, as most police officials across the country seemed to understand. In New York, peaceful demonstrators marched while phalanxes of NYPD officers cleared the way. It should be obvious that hating perceived injustice is not the same thing as hating the police.

Brinsley had a long police record and a history of mental problems. Authorities say that early Saturday morning he went to a gated apartment complex in Owings Mills, a suburb of Baltimore, and shot a woman identified as Shaneka Nicole Thompson; she was critically injured but survived. Brinsley then traveled to New York, announcing via social media his intention to kill police officers. In one post, he wrote, “I’m Putting Wings On Pigs Today. They Take 1 Of Ours. … .Let’s Take 2 of Theirs #ShootThePolice #RIPErivGardner #RIPMikeBrown This May Be My Final Post.”

In Brooklyn, Brinsley walked up and coldly shot Liu and Ramos as they sat in their police cruiser. Neither had the chance to unholster his weapon.

I don’t know the right way to make sense of such depravity. But I am certain that the way (BEG ITAL)not(END ITAL) to make sense of it is to blame nonviolent protesters, exercising their constitutional rights of assembly and speech, for the acts of a deranged killer.

Brinsley had somehow arrived at a day of personal apocalypse. He was beyond any rational search for reasons to commit a string of heinous acts. He needed only to give himself an excuse.

Eugene Robinson’s email address is [email protected](c) 2014, Washington Post Writers Group

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Copyright 2014 The Moderate Voice
  • Slamfu

    These police are self righteous jackasses who not only think they should get away with murder, literally, they want apologies for even being called on it. It is impossible to put into words my disgust at the institutionalized defense of these policemen. The upper levels of law enforcement engaged in it are no better than the bishops and leaders of the Catholic Church that sought to cover up the sexual abuse of children. And now they are trying to shift the blame for a madman onto those calling out for justice. That is the act of corrupt, craven, scumbags. Did the Mayor and protestors also push that madman into killing his girlfriend? The stupidity of the analogy is staggering. I wouldn’t be so fired up here but the men who issued these statements are not nameless bloggers or the peanut gallery, they are some of the top dogs in NY law enforcement. That is scary.

    • dduck12

      ER is wrong and so are you. This is a highly charged issue and emotional responses on both sides are understandable.
      So two cops were executed in NYC during a decade where 41 cops were killed on duty. Crime was rampant and cops were targeted by militants. Those of us that lived in NYC during that period appreciate that the last execution, whatever the reason for and rationale for it, was back in 2011.
      When folks are marching and hollering “what do we want” “dead cops” “when do we want it” Now”, without any push back from the mayor’s office and other “civil rights experts’, and when two Lts. are attacked wit similar no response, or weak response, then we are back to the 70″s.
      This was an enormous story for New Yorkers about two guys, one white and one black who fought together as Marines in Vietnam and were patrolling in the East Village, my old neighborhood where the cops kicked our asses sometimes. This opens old wounds, so I am trying to remain cool when I hear remarks from people who were not here.
      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/23/nyregion/targeted-attacks-on-new-york-police-reopen-old-wounds-from-70s.html?_r=0

      • Slamfu

        Man, are you missing the point entirely. And what part was I wrong about? This guy was a nut. Whatever the protesters said, which no matter how disgusting is by the by protected by the 1st Amendment, this guy was going to kill some people. He also killed his girlfriend. Care to rationalize how that is also somehow the fault of DeBlasio, or Sharpton, or whoever?

        And there is one very important detail. No one is closing ranks behind the cop killer to say he was justified, or that he did nothing wrong. Had the murderer lived, he would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and everyone would have been calling for his head. Everyone would have pushed for justice for those murders. He was a pariah and representative of no one in this debate. Many people would no doubt love to paint this whacko as somehow in league with their critics, but that is simply not the case, and the attempt to do so is shameful. The same can not be said when police shoot innocent civilians.

        Incidentally, I can find no video of protestors actually chanting that they want dead police. Anyone got a way to confirm that story? While during a heated protest it is totally plausible it was said, it would not surprise me in the least to find out it was just made up to distract people. But either way, it doesn’t matter. We didn’t go back to the 70’s because protestors said mean awful things or even because police were killed. We are back in the 70’s because police are out of hand. Seriously there are THOUSANDS of videos on Youtube showing police basically doing whatever they damn well please to civilians. Take a few hours and watch some of them. And they could just as easily do them to you and me and we would just have to take it because the law doesn’t police its own.

        • dduck12
        • The_Ohioan

          There is a video
          http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/12/22/last_week_nyc_protesters_chant_what_do_we_want_dead_cops_when_do_we_want_it_now.html

          if it hasn’t been doctored.

          When only right-wing websites are carrying a story…be prepared for the story to be proven false. Happens all the time no matter how incendiary the result.

          http://gawker.com/slimy-baltimore-fox-affiliate-caught-faking-kill-a-cop-1674040381

          • dduck12
          • The_Ohioan

            If either is doctored, NBC and CBS shouldn’t be showing them. The qualifiers “appeared to show” and “alledgedly” chanting in the NBC report gives us the warning to be wary of accepting the video without reservations. Something the right wing websites have not seen fit to include.

            According to the NBC story it was a few dozen people and lasted for a very short time. NOT the impression you get from WND, and their ilk.

            The bridge video shows people attacking and people helping the policemen. From what I understand the attackers are turning themselves in to the authorities – hardly a hard core revolutionary tactic.

            You live in NYC. You must know about the thousands of people joining peaceful protests now and in the 70’s.

            You owe it to yourself to make SURE there has been no pushback from the mayor’s office and the “civil rights experts” in both cases. That’s not what I’m hearing, but you are on the ground and have local TV and newspapers to consult.

          • dduck12

            Well, everything is national these days, but I am proud of Eric Garner’s daughter going to the assassination site and on CNN decrying more violence in her fathers name.
            BTW, in only takes a small group to start trouble, and I don’t think the film was doctored.
            The shooter, voiced his opinion of the police and the Brown/Garner verdicts, but he had his own demons and (satire coming) that he and others are not influenced in the slightest by what people that have the public forum and heads of unions say. Nope, everyone is an independent thinker, just like here on TMV. 🙂
            P.S. You assume I don’t know there were protesters (I “must know”), Yes I am fight in the middle. My brother-in-law protested, but when those around him started making nasty remarks about racist cops, and such, they were smart enough to leave and go back to NJ. Without further evidence, I assume the film was correct. And, I don’t “owe” anything to anyone.
            The mayor is a politician, and he will bullshit his way out of his own mess.

        • SteveK

          Yes there is a video but…

          1) Is seems strange that, though there are several street level photos, there is NO audio from the street. The only audio is supposedly off a video taken from several stories above the protest. And from the video you can not tell whether or not the audio and video are even connected.

          Didn’t any of the ground level observers taking pictures of the protest have cell phones and take videos with audio so we could see lips move?

          2) If proven to be an valid actual video regarding these 100 or 200 people who are they? Were the liberals with an agenda or was it another Breitbart / James O’Keefe production?

          Maybe on closer inspection they’ll find a baby faced white kid dressed up like a pimp. ?

          3) And finally, If there were 100 or 200 left wing protesters that certainly doesn’t paint all of us liberal progressives (let alone the 10’s of thousands of non-political people that have protested police actions over the last several months) as crazies anymore than the hundreds of wing-nuts that went to the Bundy Ranch with guns aimed and ready to shoot Federal Marshall’s make all conservatives regressives crazy.

          • DdW

            Baltimore’s Fox affiliate, WBFF, was forced to apologize after deceptively editing a video and claiming a protester led a chant to “kill a cop,” when she was in fact calling for “killer cops” to be put behind bars. WBFF also invited the protester on air.

            http://bluenationreview.com/fox-affilliate-forced-apologize-claiming-protesters-chanted-kill-cop/

          • SteveK

            Thanks Dorian. As usual another Fox News / Wing-nut Blogosphere ‘scandal’ is blowing up in their face.
            Now lets see if anyone comes out and acknowledges that they were mistaken and/or mislead.

          • dduck12

            “We here at Fox45 work hard every day to earn your trust and bring you fair and comprehensive news from around the country. Although last night’s report reflected an honest misunderstanding of what the protesters were saying, we apologize for the error.”

            http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-affiliate-apologizes-for-deceptive-kill-a-cop-edit-honest-misunderstanding/

          • SteveK

            It wasn’t just the reporter’s misquoting what the protesters were saying… They edited the original C-SPAN video.

            Their error was no accident, it was done intentionally.

        • SteveK

          Slamfu wrote:

          And there is one very important detail. No one is closing ranks behind the cop killer to say he was justified, or that he did nothing wrong. Had the murderer lived, he would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and everyone would have been calling for his head.

          Yes, You’re right about that too Slamfu, but don’t expect any of those trying to make this something more than it is to acknowledge what you wrote.

          • dduck12

            “These police are self righteous jackasses who not only think they should
            get away with murder, literally, they want apologies for even being
            called on it”. I Don’t expect anyone with this opinion to be acknowledging it as a sane remark.

          • SteveK

            @ dduck – If I knew who you were quoting and who the “These police” the quote was talking about it would be easier to respond to your comment. (note: I googled the first 12 words of your quote and came up dry.)

          • Slamfu

            He’s quoting me.

          • SteveK

            Well Slamfu, your remark hasn’t made it to google yet! ?

            But, in re-reading your ‘quote’ and the context of what you were writing I both agree with you and have a hard time understanding how anybody could misinterpret the point you were making. ETA: But it’s easy to understand why.

            It’s obvious that you are not talking about all police officers and your equating it to other atrocities committed by other groups reinforced the intent of your words and the point that you were making.

            It’s a shame to to have a comment taken out of context less than 500 words away from where they were written.

          • dduck12

            So do you stick by your words or are you going to take the “out” from SK.
            BTW, It’s typical that my remarks are well read, but what I am responding to are not.

          • Slamfu

            Of course I stick by it. The police and their supporters do in fact regularly and through incompetence kill civilians without cause and they ensure they face no punishment for that. And on several occasions when protests have come up, such as when sports players wear shirts with slogans reminding them of those they’ve killed, they have the balls to ask for an apology. It’s not some random opinion, this is a fact. How are you not shocked by it? Should I make a list of the number of people that are unarmed who have been killed with little to no cause in just this last year and detail the ways they have not been prosecuted and in many cases not even fired? Its a long list.

            My personal favorite one for now is the NY cop who shot a man in a stairwell. They guy opened the door, startled the cop, the cop shot him. But the real kicker? He didn’t even call an ambulance. The man and his girlfriend had to walk down a floor and use someone else’s phone. He died of his injuries in the hospital. The officer did make a call though, it was to his union rep, while the guy was bleeding out in front of him. What happened to this cop? No indictment. Grand Jury decided that apparently startling an incompetent cop is a capital offense. If you need more there is plenty.

  • The_Ohioan

    Maybe we need to expand those random psychological tests I’ve been touting for armed law authorities to the supervisor sections.

    This seems to be “us vs them” that a constant exposure to vicious criminals almost always brings about. It becomes difficult to separate the vicious from the innocent bystander. It happens in police departments and security agencies and occupying armies.

    • rudi

      It happens in police departments and security agencies and occupying armies.

      The problem is that many police agencies think of themselves as occupying armies instead of local police.

      This story illustrates good policing.
      http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/12/tarrant_police_officer_deliver.html

      TARRANT, Alabama – Helen Johnson stared in amazement at the piles of food accumulating in her small Tarrant apartment on Wednesday.

      “The last time I saw my house this full, I was 12-years-old and staying with my grandmother,” said the 47-year-old mother and grandmother. “I’ve been crying all day.”

      On Wednesday, Tarrant police delivered two truckloads of groceries to the woman, who on Saturday was caught stealing five eggs from the nearby Dollar General. Instead of arresting Johnson, Tarrant Police Officer William Stacy bought her a carton of eggs and sent her home with the promise to never shoplift again.

      That in itself, Johnson said, was a blessing. But those blessings now seem to have taken on a life of their own. Tarrant police said they’ve received calls from across the United States and world since hearing of Johnson’s plight. People have offered food, money and clothing.

      It’s been so overwhelming, said Tarrant Police Chief Dennis Reno, he had to bring in a second police dispatcher to handle the volume of calls.

  • The spin is on….. the one’s in power infiltrating the protests and being the agitators in order to blemish and degrade… then ones like these ‘leaders’ milking any and every situation, whether it relates or not, simply to discredit and under mind… Power has little use for justice these days… Veils in this situation and around the world can be lifted… Keep writing and speaking truth to one’s such as this… Thanks…

  • archangel

    Sparrow, you are right, there are always infiltrators who try to create disruption, often violently, or instigating it in others, at every strike line or march I’ve ever participated in. The difference is in having leaders of protests who gather everyone together and lay out what to do and how to act if provoked by other ‘protesters’ and what the goal is, and what is acceptable. Protests that draw large walk in populations dont usually have boundaries, nor training in how to recognize people who literally either want to be ‘important’ by acting out, or much more often, are sent to infiltrate by ‘the opposing’ side. I dont know what the situation is on this in nyc, just hearing from various who live there, that emergency vehicles and persons needing to get home to meet young children after school, people on way to doctors for various, were barred from proceeding. The goal of reform or retraining is no longer the issue then. Many more issues are added about rights of access, for instance, by all in nyc, while protestors went what appears to be free form. The city is supposed to have created the boundaries. It is a hot mess with afterthought aplenty from what I hear. The clean issue of protest is not at issue as far as I hear.

    There’s also the lack of mature experience in handling a huge multicultural city re de Blasio. Politicians who sneer at detractors and call them ‘my friend’ without sincerity, only worsen the sour, and are very different than seasoned leaders who dont snark, dont act peevish, dont try to take the slimelight off themselves, dont blame others. I just note with puzzlement that de Blasio said, let’s turn to the funerals and leave all this other for later, and then turned around yesterday and lengthily and publicly blasted the media for all his probs in nyc at present. I thought he said, let us focus on the families.

    And Sparrow, I believe in days coming, de Blasio will calm down, and lead as best he can, and other groups will also lower their rhetoric but not necessarily ‘following’ him, rather leading as best they can in their own ways. The murders of two police officers will never be forgotten on de Blasio’s watch, as 9-11 will never be forgotten without Guiliani’s name being attached.

    But the new york city people have experience, deep deep experience, in surviving and getting back to their feet, as they have struggled mightily to do after 9-11.[Many who dont live in nyc, think that struggle is over. It is not. The trauma to all, continues and cannot be left out of the current equation]. Eventually the men and women with the best minds and hearts will talk aloud and nyc will move forward. Thing is too, there are those already looming in nyc in the background, individuals who want to succeed de Blasio, who in the minds of many a new yorker I know, would be even more inexperienced than de Blasio and some say, as is often true in politics, he is grooming the next mayor [he hopes] by what he is laying down now. Thing is nyc people do better, we all do, by being asked what we want, rather than being told without consult, how its going to be because one man and his coterie say so. It’s as true in Chi-town as in LA and elsewhere. It’s not new. It’s old. as old as having ‘bosses’ run the show. How they engage the whole populave before trouble comes, influences, for certain. It’s a huge job. Huge.

  • archangel

    HI there everyone, just stick to the topic of ER’s post, not each other.

    thanks

  • dduck12
    • SteveK

      Your link doesn’t work but I’m curious… What does a LP issued by a punk band 33 years ago (1981) have to do with this?

      Edit to add: MDC was re-released on CD in 1995 so I guess to some that makes it a current event. ?

      • dduck12

        Back to the 70’s. I guess Amazon has buyers.

        • SteveK

          Yes they do dduck, I just bought 5 seasons of Leverage and we’re binge watching all 5. ?

          Happy Holidays to you and Mrs. Duck.

  • adelinesdad

    I think there is a pattern of excessive police force and abuse of authority used against black Americans, and so the protesters have a legitimate grievance to protest. However, looking at recent reports there’s also no question that there is also an anti-cop and incendiary element within the protests. When you have videos and reports of chants and banners comparing the NYPD to the KKK, claiming that cops are murderers and even genocidal, and as it appears, even explicitly calling for dead cops you can’t say those fit into the general message of just wanting better policing. Add to that cops who are out doing their jobs being spit on, verbally abused, and physically assaulted in some cases.

    The question is not whether there is this kind of element, small but not insignificant, among the protesters. The question is how much responsibility others within the movement bear. I’m reminded of the Gabby Giffords shooting, which has many parallels except that the sides arguing for and against an expanded view of culpability were reversed, not surprisingly. I think it’s worth thinking about how much any movement is responsible for the actions of fringe elements.

    Some might argue that as long as we don’t participate in the incendiary chants or actions, we have no responsibility for them. Others may say we only have a responsible to condemn them. But once we become part of a movement, can we really claim we are responsible only for the effects of that movement that we wanted and intended, or that the movement’s mainstream actors articulated? Does there come a point where we have a responsibility to withdraw from the movement if we can’t push out the fringe elements? After all, especially if our goal is social justice, what is the point if the end result is different injustice?

    To be clear, I think the claim that the mayor and Obama have “blood on their hands” is ridiculous and shameful. On the other hand, the movement can’t completely deflect responsibility. In the face of their extreme elements, I do think there is some responsibility within the movement to do more than just say nice words about just wanting more accountability.

    What do I want? Civil discourse that leads us to real solutions and recognizes that these problems are complicated and all perspectives have some portion of truth.
    When do I want it? As soon as it can be arranged, within reason.

    Just my view.

    • Slamfu

      “On the other hand, the movement can’t completely deflect responsibility.”

      Yea, actually it can and for a very simple reason. They didn’t do it. Regardless of what the protestors said, which by the way has been almost entirely peaceful which is remarkable given the cause of it, the leaders of the protest and their supporters have gone out of their way to do what they can to keep things sane. Protests are always going to have an anti authority and incendiary element to them, that is precisely what they are for. You think their cause loses points because they aren’t being nice about it? This is how change happens against a corrupt institution in authority.

      That was a crazy guy, his actions have no bearing on the validity of the protestors grievances.

      • adelinesdad

        “Yea, actually it can and for a very simple reason. They didn’t do it.”

        That’s a valid position as long as we apply it consistently. But I think if I help push a boulder I’m partly responsible for where it goes, even if that’s not where I intended. I’m also partly responsible if it breaks up and goes in lots of different directions. I may say, in my defense, that the boulder needed to be pushed, but I think that’s not the same as saying I have no responsibility.

        If it doesn’t matter what the protesters said, the rest of your comment is beside the point, but we have a difference of opinion on the degree to which anti-police rhetoric and actions have been a part of the movement, and what leaders and other participants of the movement could do to counteract that.

        Re: “That was a crazy guy, his actions have no bearing on the validity of the protestors grievances.”

        As I said in my first sentence, I recognize the grievances as legitimate. The question is whether the movement, in its zeal of justice, has overstepped in its rhetoric and actions to the point where it is partly responsible for creating injustice itself.

        • Slamfu

          “The Movement” has been quite clear in its overwhelming requests to keep things peaceful. So the answer to that question is no, they are not responsible for someone who acts contrary to their wishes. The fact this guy also murdered his girlfriend should indicate there was a lot more going on in that nut jobs head than being pissed at police. Unless I missed the video where the protestors were also calling for the death of his girlfriend, in which case you might have a point.

          • adelinesdad

            My argument about partial responsibility does not imply or require that there weren’t other factors.

          • SteveK

            No adelinesdad what you said was that any form of protest to the disproportionate violence on black youths and lack of accountability by the police is to blame for the deaths of the two NYPD officers.

            What you are implying is that anyone involved in these protests are partially responsible for what happened. This attitude is IMO totally illogical.

          • adelinesdad

            No I’m not arguing that “any form of protest” is to blame. I’m arguing that the movement in the form that it has and does exist is partly responsible.

            I’m also not saying that individuals involved in the protests should pack up and go home, though I did bring up that possibility in the context of protests in general. That all depends on whether there are more things that could be done to counteract the extreme elements (which i think there are) and whether we have gotten to the point where the potential injustice caused by the movement outweighs the injustice it is intended to resolve (I think probably not).

          • Slamfu

            There is no partial responsibility no matter what they were chanting. You want to start saying a movement’s got to pick up the tab in any way shape or form because of a random nut you are going to have a hard time finding any legit people. And by the way, here’s a link to how the local FOX affiliate made up the thing about protestors chanting about killing cops:

            http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/fox-station-apologizes-to-black-lives-matter-protester-for-editing-chant-to-say-kill-a-cop/

            But it’s already out there. You’ll have tons and tons of police supporters swearing hand to god those protestors were out there chanting for cop blood no matter how widespread this retraction is spread. Fact is, it doesn’t matter whether they were chanting it or not. People are allowed to get angry and say angry things, especially when the powers that be are literally killing people and pretending like its no big deal. As far as I can tell, apparently protestors have to be perfectly well behaved and endure everything police can throw at them short of gunning them down with real bullets instead of rubber ones, while the Police get to call dead people cost of doing business. And lo and behold a nut job goes off and all of a sudden these activist leaders who’ve been doing their best to make rallies of thousands of angry people stay peaceful get made out to be violent rabble rousers.

            In short Adel, you’re being played.

          • adelinesdad

            I didn’t form my opinion based on the reporting from that fox affiliate. In fact, I was not even aware of that particular alleged chant. What I am observing is a pattern of anti-police (not just police aggression) rhetoric and actions, and at the extreme even explicit endorsement of violence, among a small portion of the protests. This can be observed from a wide variety of reporting.

            But I’m fine if you disagree with my opinion that there is a “small but not insignificant” portion of the protesters that are engaging in this rhetoric and actions. We can debate all day about how small it is and whether it is significant and whether the movement as a whole has some responsibility for it. But what troubles me more is that you say it doesn’t matter at all what the protesters are saying.

            Before I go on further, I want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that even the very small number of protesters that are calling for violence against cops aren’t responsible for any act of violence? Just because “they didn’t do it”? Or are they responsible but not those chanting anti-police slogans (ie. “no cops no prisons”) without explicit calls for violence? I’m just trying to understand where you draw the line. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

      • SteveK

        Yea, actually it can and for a very simple reason. They didn’t do it.

        Some people have a real difficult time with that concept.

        Above I pointed out the fact that Al Sharpton wasn’t in NYC or involved with the “Kill the cops” chant (nor were 99.999999% of the protesters) and was accused of being a Sharpton fan… With fleas.

        Now you’re getting the “I agree with you BUT” deflection. Some people just aren’t open to allowing facts to change their positions.

        • adelinesdad

          I’m proud to wear the “yeah but” badge. Truth is usually complicated. One side, or one line of reasoning, is hardly ever entirely right. Injustice is commonly done by those who adhere to an apparently sound line of reasoning too strongly which leads them to go too far in righting a wrong (you can apply that in both directions on this topic).

          That’s just my point of view, which maybe I embrace too strongly at times.

  • SteveK

    So many lies and misinformation… Where to start?

    How about the fact that though many are trying to blame Al Sharpton… Al Sharpton’s protest march was in Washington D.C… Lie much ‘Townhall’?

    Then there is this story that puts a time line and details to the “Kill Cops Chant” story.

    The truth about the ‘dead cops’ chant

    The shooting deaths of two New York City Police officers at the hands of a deranged man last Saturday has drawn an outpouring of grief for the victims and their families, but also a backlash against the growing national movement to reform police practices.
    […]
    I covered one of the major protests – the “Millions March NYC” demonstration on December 13th, which drew at least 25,000 peaceful protesters to the streets of Manhattan.

    At the march, which I chronicled on my Instagram page, I heard my share of tough chants against the NYPD, whose officers lined the parade route. The officers I saw were grim-faced, but silent and professional, as a seemingly endless sea of marchers – white, black, old, but mostly young – chanted things like:
    “Whose streets? OUR streets!”
    “No justice, no peace, no racist police!”
    “How to you spell racist? N-Y-P-D!”

    The chant I didn’t hear on Dec. 13 was the one captured on a cell phone video and uttered by a small group numbering a few dozen, marching in a cluster behind a makeshift banner:

    “What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!”
    […]
    Some are attributing the chant not just to organizers of the New York march but even to Rev. Al Sharpton, whose National Action Network had nothing to do with the New York march and held its own separate rally earlier that day in Washington, D.C. with the spouses and parents of Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Amadou Diallo and others…

    And yet, evidence shows the group that engaged in the death chant against police weren’t part of Millions March NYC. And if they did indeed march on Dec. 13, they did so long after the larger protest had moved downtown. They were not part of the main group.

    For one thing, according to the video, which was posted to YouTube the same day as the protest, the “dead cops” chant took place after sunset. You can see from the video that city lights are already on. The group starts by chanting “hands up, shoot back,” before switching to the death chant…
    […]
    By the time [Millions March NYC] reached Herald Square, which is on the west side of the city at least a mile from Murray Hill, it was still daylight. My photos from Herald Square are time stamped at around 3:30 p.m.

    The official march ended at One Police Plaza at 6:30 p.m., when the march’s permit expired, a point reinforced by a tweet sent by the organizers at 7:26 p.m.
    […]
    Millions March organizers told me they don’t know the identity of the group was that was caught on cellphone camera marching through Murray Hill chanting about “dead cops.” But in response to press inquiries in the wake of the two officers’ slaying, the group released the following statement:

    “On behalf of the Millions March NYC, we express our deepest condolences to the families of the officers who were killed on Saturday. Our march last weekend was a peaceful outcry that senseless violence in our society is harmful to trust, community, and security. This tragedy is in no way connected to our march, or ongoing protests against police brutality, discrimination, and profiling – and we condemn, and are disappointed with any entity that would try to imply such connection. As New Yorkers, we will continue to march for a peaceful society, where trust between communities and law enforcement is finally achieved.”

  • archangel

    hi there, it is just two hours from Christmas Eve now. Stay to the topic of the post, not each other. We’ll all try to add our piece of peace on Earth.

    Thanks

    and Blessed Christmas
    and Happy Holidays
    to all.

    Archangel

  • SteveK

    NYT (Opinion Page) – Police Respect Squandered in Attacks on de Blasio

    Mayor Bill de Blasio has spent weeks expressing his respect and admiration for the New York Police Department, while calling for unity in these difficult days, but the message doesn’t seem to be sinking in.

    When he spoke at a police graduation ceremony at Madison Square Garden on Monday, some in the crowd booed and heckled him. This followed the mass back-turning by scores of officers when the mayor spoke on Saturday at the funeral of Officer Rafael Ramos; the virtual back-turning the day before by an airplane-towed banner (“Our backs have turned to you”), and the original spiteful gesture by officers on the night Mr. de Blasio visited the hospital where Officer Ramos and his partner, Wenjian Liu, lay dead.

    Mr. de Blasio isn’t going to say it, but somebody has to: With these acts of passive-aggressive contempt and self-pity, many New York police officers, led by their union, are squandering the department’s credibility, defacing its reputation, shredding its hard-earned respect. They have taken the most grave and solemn of civic moments — a funeral of a fallen colleague — and hijacked it for their own petty look-at-us gesture. In doing so, they also turned their backs on Mr. Ramos’s widow and her two young sons, and others in that grief-struck family.

    These are disgraceful acts, which will be compounded if anyone repeats the stunt at Officer Liu’s funeral on Sunday.

    […]

    http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/12/30/opinion/30TUES1/30TUES1-articleLarge.jpg

    The ‘NYT Picks’ comments section adds a lot to the Editorial Board’s position.

    Edit to add: Here’s the top rated ‘Readers Pick’ comment in the thread written by ‘East Side Bob‘:

    Whether you voted for the mayor or not, he’s the mayor, the person elected by a majority of New York voters to represent them. When misguided police officers rudely turned their backs on Mayor de Blasio, they essentially turned their backs on the citizenry of New York, on the very people they’re supposed to protect and whose respect they’re now demanding.

    When white middle-aged guys like me, the demographic the NYPD could normally count as among its strongest supporters, are outraged by police behavior, the NYPD has got a serious PR problem. It’s time for Pat Lynch and the rest of the union leadership to open their eyes and change tack.

    • Slamfu

      The NYPD has a long history of shameful corruption and self serving excuses. The statements made by their union President only serve to show that they have learned little about humility or shame in the face of public scrutiny. They clearly see themselves as a thing apart from the citizenry, and above it. The Mayor of NY has done nothing to earn that show of disrespect and as stated has gone out of his way to get a discourse going. But that doesn’t serve the interests of the police, who wish to be free to do whatever they want without any restraints and certainly without any criticism from outside the dept.

  • dduck12

    “It is not an easy choice to stand up, to serve people in this way. It
    takes courage, it takes determination, it takes commitment.”
    “It’s a noble calling, because you stand for everyone around you. You serve the people…….”
    ” You are here for people in need 24 hours a day. You protect others –
    people you don’t even know, total strangers, linked to you by our
    common humanity. You are there for them through thick and thin, and
    that is a heroic choice.”
    “It takes a special kind of person to put their lives on the line for
    others – to stare down the danger. Because that’s what you will do. You
    will stare down the danger. You will keep the peace.”
    Yup.

    • dduck12

      Crickets.

      • archangel

        chirp.

        people often dont come back after days, duck, to post more. They’re all at the newest posts.

    • The_Ohioan

      Source please. I assume, since your post is in this thread, it’s about NYPD? Could be about soldiers or Ebola health workers, etc.

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