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Posted by on Jun 26, 2006 in At TMV | 8 comments

Towards A Cul-De-Sac in Iraq?

Once individuals/nations get caught in a vicious web of violence/revenge/lies, it is difficult to have a level-headed discussion on any subject. But this question would always haunt us: WHAT PRICE THE IRAQI WAR?

It is the sign of our time that we have begun to view the entire ugly episode in terms of statistics regarding “how many soldiers killed”, “how many civilians killed”, etc.

Horrors of this war, as and when these are told in a truthful fashion, would again highlight the necessity to seek peaceful resolution of conflicts. We are witnessing the unending cycle of revenge and violence…and the consequent pain and brutality.

Some recent news stories have now vividly demonstrated how this “war” is clearly headed towards a cul-de-sac. The first story was about the secret memo from the US ambassador in Iraq to the Secretary of State. And the second, as reported by MSNBC.

If we add these earlier two stories to the one below, we have before us a recipe for disaster.

Here is a shocking report from Iraqi Health Ministry’s morgue in Baghdad written under the heading “Horror show reveals Iraq’s descent” in The Sunday Times. “A morgue’s grim scenes testify to a disintegrating nation.”

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Copyright 2006 The Moderate Voice
  • SnarkyShark

    A week after the war started, and after no WMDs were used(meaning there weren’t any), I told my rightwing father that we would fail in Iraq. He sneered at me, and said I must be a loon.

    He’s not sneering anymore.What is sad is that a simple guy like with me with a marginal grasp on geopolitics, and a decent grip on 20th century history could see the complete lack of planning for the aftermath and its consequences. But our impervious legends-in-their own-minds leadership apparently could not. I remind the reader that this was gamed by the war college, with exactly the result we have. Our war loving cabal of chicken-hawks thought they knew better. Apparently they were wrong, yet some people still give them the benifit of the doubt.This is maddening, and why some of us on the so called left view moderates as wishy washy.

    Not to hard to see whats coming either. Vauge images of choppers on rooftops come back to my mind. Except this time they will have to fly through vollys of sophistacated manpads.

    Not having learned a damn thing from the first debacle, we will have to suffer through even worse.

    Once again, people who seem to love war, but passed on the personal oppertunity to go fight in the wars they loved then and love now, are cowards and blowhards, and are not to be trusted. If someone takes this as a persaonal attack, thats becasue the label fits.

  • SnarkyShark

    From MTP roundtable

    MR. BROWNSTEIN: Two quick points. First, the, the risk that Republicans took in trying to get to the position of being able to accuse Democrats of cut-and-run is to wrap themselves around President Bush’s strategy in the war and basically say to the American people, “We are offering you a stay-the-course message” at a time where, in your last NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, you have a majority of the people saying the war wasn’t worth it, it was―it was the wrong decision and that we are not on track for success. So that’s the danger.

    Republicans thought they could parly Z-Mans death and Bushes PR dash to Bagdad into a winning return of the vindicated Daddy party.

    Not only are they out of touch with the population, they are out of touch with reality.

    This PR ploy might have worked if there was some small chance of Iraq getting better.

    It won’t, it will get infinatly worse.

    Now they have firmly chained themselves to Bushes policy of letting someone else clean up his mess.

    I perdict an electoral bloodbath, teaching Bush once and for all what a mandate really means.

    Hint-its not an hour with Jeff Ganon/Guckert.

  • SnarkyShark

    The fact that Bush had a confrence at Camp David that was allegedly for formulating a plan(good thing), but was really a cover for his mad PR dash to Bagdad.(political ploy) shows you how they view the war strategy.

    To bad 18 year old kids have to have their heads hacked off so Republicans gain gain power so as to defeat the interminable liberal

    Becasue Liberals are the real enemy to Republican cultists, with AQ and Iraq just a means to an end.

    Criminals, but do be sure to vote for them, as they are quite unified in their headlong dash over the cliff. They have ideas! They may be terribly bad ideas, but those damn wimpy Dems don’t have any ideas. No Dems don’t do stuff like Social Security, 40 hour work weeks, or win the peace like in Kosovo, no siree!

    I know thats terribly important to a large segment of the population, having a unified front and all.

    That whole disscussion thing looks terribly messy.

  • SnarkyShark

    From Novak of all places

    Novak, Sept. 20, 2004: “Inside the Bush administration policymaking apparatus, there is strong feeling that U.S. troops must leave Iraq next year. This determination is not predicated on success in implanting Iraqi democracy and internal stability. Rather, the officials are saying: ready or not, here we go … Well-placed sources in the administration are confident Bush’s decision will be to get out.

    Clearly, Bush is playing politics with our soldiers lives.

    I challange any Republican to prove thats not the case. And quoting the Ditto-master doesn’t count.

    I just provided a quote from the number one water-carrier.

    If any centerist is still willing to give Bush and the Rubber-stampers the benifit of the doubt, there is no hope for you. Do the the US and the world a favor and don’t vote, don’t talk about politics, just stay the hell out of it.

  • Rudi

    Thank you Swaraaj, you are a voice of reason and true moderation compared to your European counterpart. Some people view war as a movie or intellectual exercise. The real cost of war is in physical, mental and political casualties. People like Dick**** Perle Dick “Dead Eye Cheney” profit in idealogy(sp?) and money at the cost of others peoples sons and daughters blood.

  • Chippedchips

    Unless I have missed the boat completely, almost everything coming out of Iraqi’s and their government leadership for the past few months says “they want their country back Iraqi control period.”

    This last Iraqi demand for a “timetable to withdraw troops” seals it in concrete.

    It seems as if the only people not getting it, not seeing the full picture, are our own people in power of our own government.

    I have no idea as to the actual numbers, battalians, divisions, tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqi troops that have been trained and equipped by the U S. And I do wonder if “our people” have ever considered the fact, that if a timetable for troop withdrawal is not set and met, that the Iraqi government just might turn all their trained, equipped, ARMED troops on our troops and at the very least escort them out of Iraq if in fact not make war against them and we are back to square one again.

    It is a fact however that once the U S and its military decide on occupation of a country they stay. Proof in the pudding is that the U S military are still entrenched in former enemy nations, Germany, and Japan 60+ years after the end of WW II and still in South Korea some 50+ years after the end of that conflict. And most probably U S military would still be occupying at least three Southeast Asian countries had not the U S given up under a republican administration, nixon’s, and lost that war.

    During every U S military occupation of any country I can remember, no matter what or how much good has been accomplished, its been “Yankee Go Home.”

    The same was cited in Dixie during Yankee Army occupation of the south after the war between the states and the Yankee carpetbaggers began pillaging. In fact the outcry “Yankee Go Home” could have, and may have originated right there in Dixie.

    Unless our government intentions are to permanently occupy Iraq as has been done in the aforementioned nations, why can’t they say “we” have done all the good we can accomplish, ousting a dictator, freeing the Iraqi people, assisting to establish a more or less democratic government in Iraq…and now, withing a reasonable timeframe withdraw with honor, and let the Iraqi’s take total control of thier nation and let the healing process there begin.

    Its a clear fact that coalition troops continued presense and occupation isn’t either helping or accomplishing anything truly positive toward healing in Iraq, but hindering that process.

    The plaintive right wing outcry “better to fight terrorists over there rather than here in our streets” just doesn’t wash anymore.

    Because terrorists and terror war will continue in Iraq, and can pop up in other countries at any time unexpectedly. And what is the U S to do should that happen? Send more troops, and how many more U S troops “over there?”

    Right now in Iraq we have some 130,000 U S troops being held more or less at bay, or at least continually kept off balance, by probably no more than 2000 hit, run and disappear until they strike again in a different place (terrorist) insurgents that never seem to lack supplies weaponry to make guerilla war and there is no solid evidence as to whom, is supplying them, or which nation is supplying and resuppluing the terroristic insurgent/guerillas.

    In another reply I brought out the fact of what would the U S do if guerillas started up terror war in another Islamic nation, say Malaysia, a nation made up of 10,000 islands. Can you imagine the logisitcal problems that would be involved sending in (how many?) troops, keeping them supplied, having enough transports, sea and air, island hopping after even a small terrorist contingency?

    Then what if a third and fourth Islamic nation has terror war pop up? Where do we get the troops and supplies to send “OVER THERE?!”

    The U S military is already spread out as thin as black ice on a highway.

    So let me put it in simple terms easy for anyone to understand… right wingers, especially the gutless ones, that won’t themselves serve in the military, and their shouts of “better to fight terrorists over there rather than here in our streets” is plain uladulterated BULLSHIT! All this type shouting accomplishes is cowardice digging the U S A and those of our citizens that do serve into a deeper and deeper hole.

    People don’t have to have military expertise in order to able to think outside the box, but it sure would be nice for a change if some of them would think period before popping off “better to fight them over there than here!!”

  • Pyst

    Cul-de-sac, Swaraaj I think you have framed this debacle with this simple term.

    We are but chasing our proverbial tail’s in Iraq untill election ’06, making this pure political gamsmanship. Making this years GOP campaign donations in military, and Iraqi civilians lives. I know that is considered flamethrowing rhetoric to those on the right, but the GOP has imbraced the term “cut ‘n run” so lives are their political bartering chips for ’06 now. Stagnant military ideas (lack of ideas is more like it) for the sake of politics (stay the course in ’04) has cost lives, not to mention the 25,000+ maimed as well. Campaigning as some macho men with others lives is beyond deplorable, since almost everyone of those chanting these meaningless jingoisms have never served a minute. They, and their war planning are fakes that imperil our military future for the next 20+ years, and China is around the corner smiling the whole time.

  • Salmineo

    Casey reminds me so much of that political bastard Westmoreland. I guess he thinks he can run for president after his glorious victory. Delusional arse.

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