Paul Zanetti, Australia

UPDATE:

In the most eloquent and powerful words I have heard thusfar on the Newtown tragedy, conservative Republican Joe Scarborough, “a conservative Republican who received the NRA’s highest ratings over four terms in Congress,” said, “I come to you this morning with a heavy heart and no easy answers. Still, I’ve spent the past few days grasping for solutions and struggling for answers — while daring to question my own long-held belief on these subjects.”

Urging for action, he said:

I knew that day that the ideologies of my past career were no longer relevant to the future that I want, that I demand for my children. Friday changed everything. It must change everything. We all must begin anew and demand that Washington’s old way of doing business is no longer acceptable. Entertainment moguls don’t have an absolute right to glorify murder while spreading mayhem in young minds across America. And our bill of rights does not guarantee gun manufacturers the absolute right to sell military-style, high-caliber, semi-automatic combat assault rifles with high-capacity magazines to whoever the hell they want. It is time for Congress to put children before deadly dogmas.

Watch below, via MSNBC:

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

You can read some of the more stirring excerpts here

===

Original Post:

Twenty beautiful children, twelve girls and eight boys, all of ages 6 and 7, and six adults mowed down by bullets fired from the semi-automatic rifle of a lone gunman.

“They’re wearing cute kid stuff…I mean, they’re first-graders,” said Connecticut Chief Medical Examiner Dr. H. Wayne Carver II.

Noah, the youngest of the children, had just turned six on November 20.

But, but, guns don’t kill children; psychopaths and sadists do.

Ana was only six.

But, but, if they take our guns away, only the criminals will have guns.

Olivia was only six. She was to have had a role in her church’s nativity play.

But, but, I am sick and tired of people always wanting to exploit a tragedy to take our guns away, to push their gun control agendas…

Dylan was only six.

But, but, if the teachers had been armed, this would not have happened.

Madeleine was only six.

But, but, our schools have become a place of carnage because we have systematically removed God from our schools.

James was only six.

But, but, a larger percentage of people die in motor vehicle accidents, suicides, falls, poisonings, drowning and choking on an ingested object.

Catherine was only six.

But, but, as gun ownership has expanded over the past decade, crime has gone down.

Jesse was only six. “He loved working on his mom’s farm.”

But, but, we cannot disarm honest, law-abiding citizens and leave our children and ourselves vulnerable to these psychopaths
.

Benjamin was only six.

But, but, the total violent crime, homicide, robbery and aggravated assault rates are higher in the restrictive states than in the less restrictive ones.

Allison was only six.

But, but, the slippery slope…

Caroline was only six.

But, but, people have always killed people.

Avielle was only six.

But, but, a law-abiding citizen plus a firearm does not a criminal make.

Jack was only six.

But, but, we can’t do anything about mail order gun purchases, they are protected under the Constitution.

Charlotte was only six.

But, but this tragedy only underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones.

Jessica had celebrated her seventh birthday on Tuesday.

But, but, we must enforce the laws that are currently on the books before suggesting new gun laws.

Chase was only seven.

But, but, there are at least eleven other countries with worse gun violence rates than in the U.S.

Grace was only seven.

But, but, there is no real evidence that gun bans reduce gun violence.

Daniel was only seven.

But, but, making schools “gun-free zones,” has made schools safer for the shooters.

Emilie was only six. “She was always smiling…She always had a kind thing to say about everybody.

But, but…

Sometimes there are no more buts available, no more reasons left to make sense of such tragedies.

Let us at least agree that the slaughter of our most innocent demands fewer “buts” and more “hows” by both sides in order to even begin to “take meaningful actions to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.”

LEGAL NOTICE ON CARTOON: The above copyrighted cartoon is licensed to run on TMV. Reproduction elsewhere without licensing is strictly prohibited. See great cartoons by all the top political cartoonists at http://cagle.com. To license this cartoon for your own site, visit http://politicalcartoons.com

EDITOR’s NOTE: But after the school shootings Washington remains quiet on gun control.

Dorian de Wind, Military Affairs Columnist
Click here for reuse options!
Copyright 2012 The Moderate Voice
Sort by:   newest | oldest
Barky
Guest

Very well put, Dorian. An amazing piece of writing.

dduck
Member

The rights and safety of the many trumps the pleasure and convenience of a few.

sheknows
Guest

The juxtaposition is PERFECT Dorian.
AS long as we allow the NRA to weild such power over our elected officials, we as a nation will remain vulnerable and as a people damnable.

sparrow
Member

Outstanding post…Thanks Dorian…

Last evening i listened to gun rights activists and the degree of allegiance to guns was truly frightening…if we do not find ways to turn the oppositional around to cooperation as you share i could see how the U.S. could be in Civil War in less than 20 years or so…

For many they deeply believe: ” First they take our guns,then they take our Nation, then they persecute us and take our God.” and the THEY is One World Government, that wants one currency, one Nation, one Religion. What they cannot see is the degree of entrenchment reveals the degree of their own projections…

Dorian, How do we begin to combat that? The issue of guns tied to a pervasive ideology that leaves no room for any consideration beyond their fear, beyond their tribalism.

It seems to me that the ‘Founding Fathers’ could of never dreamed how the First and Second Amendments are the very things that will likely be its destruction…

We are not in a box Canyon created by a brittle Constitution…

I will now re-read this post and continue to swim through sadness and unknowing with an earnest attempt to move to ‘How’….

Here is a link to Chicago Tribune with little Ana Marquez Greene singing Come, Thou Almighty King

wwhttp://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/73712469/Home-video-of-Newtown-Victim-Ana-Marquez-Greenew.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/73712469/Home-video-of-Newtown-Victim-Ana-Marquez-Greene

STinMN
Guest

I’ve always enjoyed your writing Dorian but this is some of the finest.

I’m a gun owner but I’ve always been a gun control advocate as well. I’ve had some training on proper handling and use of a firearm, enough that when I corrected someone I later found out was a law enforcement officer he just nodded and acknowledged his mistake. On thing I’m slowly realizing is that the majority of the gun rights activists will only change if they see that they are in the minority. Most of them truly believe they are speaking for the majority of the people, which is why they are so passionate about it.

The other part I’m realizing is that while guns are part of the problem, so too are the lack of alternative coping mechanisms for those that would perpetrate these tragedies. They don’t know of any other way of coping than violence. But teaching and providing alternative means of coping will things cost money.

In a society where the only thing that seems to matter is the amassing as much money as possible I harbor serious doubt we’ll ever make any progress. There is a cost for eliminating social programs and reducing education funding, sizing government so it can drowned in a bathtub, and as long as that remains the priority we will continue to see mass killings.

RON BEASLEY, Assistant Editor
Member

I agree Dorian, a great piece of writing. As a country we need some help from a mental health professional. Guns and god have become one in the same thing to be worshiped equally – if that’s not insanity I don’t know what is.

dduck
Member

“Guns and god have become one in the same thing to be worshiped equally – if that’s not insanity I don’t know what is.”
Nonsense.

ProfElwood
Guest

Yeah, while we’re at it, let’s start addressing the end of the Federal Reserve and the eventual return to real money. Not relevant you say? Neither is gun control law related to this event.

If we want to protect the kids, start protecting the kids. Armed guards would have protected them, “gun free” zones obviously don’t. Emotional appeals are great for swinging opinion, but they’re most useful when reason doesn’t apply.

Shannon Lee
Member

We should just hand guns out at birth and enterance into the country. Just think of how safe we will be with our weapons all pointed at one another! It will be just like the wild wild west, the safest period of American history.

Something about a heavily armed fear and greed based society that makes me a wee uneasy.

sparrow
Member

Prof…And you feel the solution to protect little children in our culture is to protect them with guns? surely we are more intelligent and better than that…surely a world that can reveal the Higgs particle can create societies where six and seven year olds are not slaughtered while they are being taught their ABC’s, how to count to 100, how to share their crayons, how to cover their mouths when they cough, how not to be a bully, how to be considerate of others…

Armed guards for first graders…that is our United States?

Can you see there is something wrong with that picture?

sheknows
Guest

Why on EARTH would we need “armed guards”? “gun control law not relevant to this event”?

Yes, what lack of foresight on the part of our school systems not to post armed guards!

Do you honestly believe the reason the NRA supports arming themselves and everyone else to the teeth is because it’s just a “SPORT” to them???

There is an underlying paranoia that is part and parcel to that organization, and has been most notably seen in the far right element of our government since the 1920’s. So fearful are they that someone may take their guns away…that is all they are concerned with. Not restricted use of firearms…not commitment to the ABUSE of fireamrs…just continual PROTECTION of their firearms.
I see it as a sickness.

sheknows
Guest

Just a note of interest….Hey kids, did you know you can apply for a gun permit ONLINE in N Carolina?

Wonder when there will be an app for that on my Iphone!!

sparrow
Member

HOW: A Good place to start.

Dianne Feinstein to introduce Assault weapon ban on the First Day of Congress….

” On Sunday Feinstein laid out details of the bill.”

“It will ban the sale, the transfer, the importation and the possession, not retroactively, but prospectively,” and ban the sale of clips of more than ten bullets, Feinstein said. “The purpose of this bill is to get… weapons of war off the streets.”

It needs to be retroactive….There is no reason for a citizen of the U.S. to own a military style assault weapon…the excuse that some are proposing is they are needed for prairie dog hunting…which is such a poor excuse of hunting as the ‘hunters’ sit up their gun on a table then they sit in a chair and use big scopes and clips to turn the slaughter of animals into a carnival shoot….

sheknows
Guest

Yes, prairie dogs are a major concern to everyone in the country, and we definetely need to blast these poor little creatures to hell with as many 100 round clips as we can carry on any hunting expedition.

That’s the best argument they could come up with? That’s one our congress will accept? I applaud the effort of Feinstein, and maybe “something is better than nothing” but we are still making concessions that are unacceptable to any intelligent person.

sheknows
Guest

just brainstorming aka dreaming….. perhaps if we as voters take a little power back from the NRA. How about writing, calling, tweeting whatever our lawmakers and let them know that if they accept campaign contributions from the NRA, they can do without our vote. We have to hit them where it hurts, and we have to stop the purchase of elected officials by an organization and BACKERS of that organization who have no moral compass and no social conscience when it comes to the safety of our society.

dduck
Member

Hey Feinstein, too big to not fail.

The_Ohioan
Guest

Yeah, but damn those little prairie dogs are fast. It takes a lot of bullets to bring one down.

dduck
Member

Ohio, the PDs are safe cause after the first shot they dive underground not to be seen again. Real hunters have to be good on their first and only shot. Humans aren’t so lucky on this front.

The_Ohioan
Guest

Oh.

Sorry Dorian; didn’t mean to highjack your post. Good job and – I’m waiting.

sparrow
Member

actually dduck one of the reasons that PD hunting is attractive is the hunters can: ” Not only can you fire literally hundreds of rounds in a day, but in much of the best prairie dog country, the wind is always blowing.” Guided Prairie dog hunts…i think they pop up to take a peek from time to time…

And to be fair the hunters say the reason they do it is not for the meat, so it does not matter that the carcass is blown to bits , but rather it is excellent practice for long distance accuracy. No problem with hunters but wish they would go back to bow and arrow….then it really is about skill.

The weapon of choice for many PD hunters is the AR15 which is the gun that the Colorado shooter used…

sheknows
Guest

I don’t want to go off-thread here, but a very good friend of mine and her husband used to love gun hunting. They stopped and became bow hunters because they felt it was unfair to kill animals without giving them at least some sporting chance. It’s one thing she said, to aim a rifle at an unsuspecting deer from so many yards out they can’t even sense your presence. It’s quite another to have to get into closer range. She said more than half the time you are heard, seen or smelled and they take off, which was fine with them.

Perhaps all those “great” gun hunters would like to give their prey more of a fighting chance.

sparrow
Member

Thanks Dorian, i so hope we have bottomed out from no adequate solutions and we can move upwards from this tragedy…

Sorry about the prairie dog comments, it started with the reason why the NRA crowd does not want to band assault weapons is because they are used in PD hunting which is the fastest growing hunting in the U.S. at the present time…And the attempt was to say how absurd that justification for assault weapons with big clips in the face of the current murders of children….

Shannon Lee
Member

sadly, like most things… change will require more blood. We dont really look at ourselves and our attitudes until after a tipping point of innocent blood has been spilled. Apparently, gun control requires a lot dead children.

Shannon Lee
Member

Yet another shooting tragedy in my home state of Kansas today… 2 police officers shot and killed… had they had armed guards, this would have never happened.

zephyr
Guest

Thanks Dorian for a fine post. Nothing will ever bring these children back, but there is one way we can honor them. It won’t be by repeating NRA and libertarian talking points either. It’s time we started growing up as a society and this will never happen if we can’t be honest when talking about our problems, their causes, and possible solutions. If we are too cowed and intimidated by the gun lobby to do even this much then we don’t deserve to have beautiful children to begin with.

ProfElwood
Guest

It seems to me that disarming the public in an attempt to stop gun violence is about as appropriate as disarming our military in order to stop war deaths.

The only thing that’s changed recently is that we’ve announced that schools are safe killing grounds. Why is it considered inappropriate or dumb to protect our children using means that everyone knows will work?

ProfElwood
Guest

The point is, Dorian, that changing the gun control laws won’t save a single child. The politicians put up armed guards, the president is surrounded by armor and guards, even my county’s courthouse has several policemen guarding the entrance at all times. They understand perfectly how to protect people from kooks, and it’s not with “gun-free zones”. No, it’s only someone else’s kids that need to be put up for the slaughter.

I have kids in school right now, and I fear for their safety now, because I see how defenseless our politicians have made them.

brcarthey
Guest

Beautiful post Dorian. As a parent whose oldest is 5 and a half years old, my wife and I have grieved for these parents all weekend. Our only hope is that Washington will actually be able to do something positive with this tragedy when it comes to gun control.

I also watched and (for once) agreed with Joe Scarborough’s speech. Here’s the link in case you haven’t gotten it yet: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/ns/msnbc-morning_joe/#50222624

petew
Guest

Yes Dorian, rationalizations do not yield results—even admitted by Joe Scarborough! Now all we need is for Exxon Mobile to end its negative propaganda campaign against global warming.

ProfElwood
Guest

My point is simple: the idea that gun control will save these lives is a shaky connection, at best. Connecticut already had such laws, and they obviously didn’t work.

I’m also glad to hear that you wouldn’t mind, you know, actually protecting the kids, because some of the posters here have spoken against that. I wouldn’t suggest arming the students (kids aren’t know for their self-control), but well-trained and trusted adults, especially if no one know who is and isn’t armed, would make schools much riskier places for shooting sprees.

dduck
Member

Interesting article about Newtown. Turns out that there are a lot of pro-gun people there and they have noisy legal and illegal shooting ranges close to town.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/nyregion/in-newtown-conn-a-stiff-resistance-to-gun-restrictions.html?_r=0

dduck
Member

Better late than never. Good work, Joe.

sheknows
Guest

Several statistics from various universities now show that states which have greater gun control have fewer shootings. Period. While correlation cannot necessarily lead to causation, it is nonetheless a step in the right direction since we are blindly walking around in the dark.

Among the theories about why mass shootings have risen at an alarming rate since 2007, is that they have become “popularized” to the mentally ill by the very media that covers these horrendous events. Those looking for as much carnage and hence attention as they can get, even when considering their own death. Accessibility to the types of weapons that would do the most damage is usually by legal means, which is another argument for making these types of weapons illegal.

Barky
Guest

The point is, Dorian, that changing the gun control laws won’t save a single child. The politicians put up armed guards, the president is surrounded by armor and guards, even my county’s courthouse has several policemen guarding the entrance at all times. They understand perfectly how to protect people from kooks, and it’s not with “gun-free zones”. No, it’s only someone else’s kids that need to be put up for the slaughter.

So there have been two themes from conservatives over the past few days. One is this is a mental health issue, not a gun issue. Two is we need more armed guards, more security.

So here’s some rebuttals, right from the conservative playbook. One, they want this country out of the health care business, privatize everything. Private mental health care won’t help those with mental dispositions towards violence. Two, who’s going to pay for all these armed guards everywhere? Up go local taxes. Three, what about personal liberties? The Tea Party and other conservative groups are also afraid of a belligerent government violating their rights with force (hence their fetishism with guns). So their solution is … more armed officers patrolling everything?

sheknows
Guest

Just an added note: Mass shootings were at their height during the 20’s and continued on through the 30’s and 40’s, however these were done with sub machine guns owned by the criminal element as well as the police. Most were gang related and robberies. Private homeowners did not have them for protection of their homes and families and neither did hunters use them for hunting game. And sports gun enthusiasts saw no reason to have them.
Today we have the equivalent of those rapid fire killing machines all throughout our society.
And the National RIFLE association defends the “right” to own them.

ELIJAH SWEETE
Member

There’s an awful lot of misunderstanding going on around here. I’m not taking sides, though I may at some point, but we need to have our facts straight if we’re to have a meaningful discourse on the subject.

“Assault style” weapons are not the functional equivalent of “Tommy guns” or “sub-machine guns”. Semi-automatic rifles are the most common type of sport rifle in the United States. Assault “style” weapons, as used in Aurora, Portland and Newtown, are semi-automatic rifles designed to “look like” assault rifles. Other than cosmetic appearance, they are the functional equivalent of common hunting rifles.

Fully automatic “Tommy guns” and “submachine guns” have been effectively banned (regulated beyond beyond common ownership) since 1934.

I very much appreciate the desire to find solutions to gun violence, but we really need to get on the same factual page. It’s possible that the appearance of these assault “style” guns appeals to a certain personality type, but the weapons themselves are not functionally more dangerous than other rifles that look more traditional.

dduck
Member

Tidbits, it is true, though it hasn’t happened yet, that some of these military look a likes can be modified for full automatic or some variation like burst firing.
And, the look of a product, and yes, a firearm does have some psychological effect on the purchaser/owner. Sort of like a fat balding 50-year old in a red convertible probably gets a jolt of testosterone and steps heavier on the gas pedal.

I do empathize with the average gun owner, who isn’t necessarily a conservative Rep as some are bandying about on these threads, being denigrated unfairly. I would have and would enjoy guns if I didn’t live in NY, but I would not be doing speed shooting, just accuracy shooting.

ELIJAH SWEETE
Member

Duck,

As to this,

“Sort of like a fat balding 50[or more]-year old in a red convertible probably gets a jolt of testosterone…”

I trust that is not a personal attack on a fellow commenter. :)

My only point is that we need to understand that these are not military weapons in civilian hands. Can they be modified to fully automatic? Probably. Many semi-autos can be, and often in a garage or home shop. But, I am not aware of any evidence that the weapons used in any of these mass murders had been so modified.

dduck
Member

If the car fits wear it.
Yes, my Hummer is not a military version, but you better move over anyway buddy. :-)

EEllis
Guest

Today we have the equivalent of those rapid fire killing machines all throughout our society.
And the National RIFLE association defends the “right” to own them

No we don’t. In the 20’s you could buy a “tommy gun” from the Sears catalog but that ended in 1934 when automatic weapons became restricted and they, and their equivalent, are restricted to this day,

sparrow
Member

Tidbits please explain… these semi-automatics? they are the ones that have been most prominent in the shooting sprees, right? these are the ones that can hold clips up to 100 shots. which is a civilian rife of the M16? And can you please explain to me how many rounds of ammo is it possible for a semi-automatic gun to get off in one minute? That is what i really want to know is with the clips that are currently accessible what is the count of ammo can go through these guns in one minute?

Yet the AR15 is miltary weapon.

sparrow
Member

found the answer i was seeking for Semi-Automatic rate….

“The semi-automatic rate is the assault rifle/semi-auto only version on rapid fire. It is the maximum rate that a weapon can fire with any degree of accuracy in semi-auto mode, usually 45-60 rpm.”

ELIJAH SWEETE
Member

Sparrow,

There is nothing magical about these assault style guns when it comes to mega clips. When the “Assault Weapons Ban” [misnomer] was passed in 1994, there were already 24 million mega clips in private hands. One of the reasons the legislation is widely regarded as ineffective is that it allowed all existing clips to be grandfathered rather than try to round them up. They were sold privately, at exhorbitant prices, the entire ten years the legislation was in effect.

The mega clips work just fine in traditional rifles as well. The distinction between semi automatic hunting rifles and these assault style weapons really is cosmetic primarily. I am planning an article on this subject in which I will go into more depth on the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. BTW, Feinstein’s reintroduction of that legislation specifically would exempt 900 varieties of firearms. This all requires more than a comment. I’ll get there, but not now. I want things to calm down a bit before I write at length.

Number of rounds per minute in a semi automatic depends on how many times you can pull the trigger before your trigger finger grows tired. Estimates I’ve seen are five rounds per second. But, if your goal is to kill, you might want to aim from time to time as well as simply pulling the trigger.

All of this requires great thought and care. My view.

ELIJAH SWEETE
Member

Dorian,

I was asked a question and provided an accurate answer. It is not much different than Sparrow’s reference to shooting “with any degree of accuracy” citation. You may not like the way I said it, but it is not out of the context of the question that was asked.

Am I cold, casual and tachnical? You’re welcome to your opinion, my friend. If tears have fallen from my eyes over the loss of these children, my grief is private. Kindly have the respect not to accuse me of lack of feeling for my fellows and especially for the innocent children. That I choose a different approach than you makes our approaches different; it does not make me cold, casual or technical.

Thank you for saying it was not directed at me, but it was in response to my comment, and I draw my conclusions from that. My dear friend from Austin – I understand your anger. I demand the right to shed my own tears and seek my own catharsis, in my own time. Like you I am a father.

In my experience, the facts matter. That is circumspection, not insensitivity.

God bless you, Dorian. I look forward to kinder conversations.

SteveK
Member

Most impressed with Joe Scarborough and most appreciative of EEllis’s comments too.

They highlight the differences in goals, objectives, and points of view in a way that makes the problem(s), and the problem makers motives so much easier to understand.

sparrow
Member

I just want to say the reason i went technical is because it does all get confusing… i wanted to know how many rounds because when a rifle, no matter, it’s name can expel 50 to 100 shots in a minute without pausing to reload it seems insanely overwhelming when the target is the most innocent.

I keep going back to the premise of this outstanding post …. HOW do we come together and keep the most vulnerable safe?…deeply trust that is the ground of each person…we are all horrified and heartbroken and whether there be tears or anger i had so rather those be present than the helplessness of nothing being done which can lead to more of these incidents…

HOW? … Dorian I am living with the question, HOW?….

Nelson Mandela said: ” Safety and security don’t just happen, they are the result of collective consensus and public investment.We owe our children, the most vulnerable citizens in our society, a life free of violence and fear.”

I am reposting Dr. E’s comment that she shared Saturday evening, for i find much wisdom in it….
There is a pointing to HOW here ….which i appreciate.

DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist
December 16, 2012 | 7:19 am

OS, the dialogue will be won by the will of the people I think. Those in the wrong and the right often try to argue stats which is excercise in futility on this matter, I think. Stats are so manipulatable as to often be stone stupid.

Also, attempts to detract from the central issue, which is the will of the majority, by bringing in 20 other aspects or issues from all over creation, is in my opinion, in no way contributing to balance nor solutions. Redefinition has never solved issues. It is past-timing, opining and powerless to get anything done.

Covering the legislatures over the years, i see those who get down to the 2 or 3 factors of an issue, turn away the blabbers and shriekers and the disrespectful… and instead discussing how to solve those, then log-rolling to solve them to best ability, and then moving on, gets the job done to best possible outcome.

I note strongly over the last couple years esp, that problem solving, proposing sincere helps is seldom forthcoming from those who want what they want, what they want, what they want, without regard for others who are different than they are and who are in the majority.

There’s something that stands behind ‘my right, my gun, must have, or else.’ There’s also something that stands behind, let’s put our heads together and make this a better country. The two ideations that stand behind are not at all in the same light.

I also note OS, a depressive ideation fostered by some;
‘genie’s out of the bottle.’ ‘nothing can be done.’ ‘we all just have to pound sand’

I not only dont believe those are true. I know they are not true. So do many many others. h.i.t. Ordinary Sparrow and others who are willing to work toward a new day on many fronts.

Read more at http://themoderatevoice.com/170571/elementary-school-shooting-what-gun-control-laws-might-us-voters-support/#Yg8DA9AhEAJOy7ZF.99

Underneath the question on rounds was a how? How does classification of automatic and semi-automatic change the capacity to kill with such force as Newtown…

Just my opinion here, i do not think that it is futile for us to wrestle and tangle with the complexity of all of this… for it is the messy process of synthesis that brings forth solutions…

Any time people gather together and enter the fray with the intent to find a ‘How’ i deeply feel there is something that occurs in the unseen collective world that begins to shift and that is what evolves us into change with these tough issues…

Just want to say that i truly trust the goodness, heart, and soundness of processing of both Dorian and Tidbits… i truly listen and consider your opinions as wise and worthy…and so often i take what has been struggled through here into the world view with others…

Thanks for all that can allow the messy for the ground is good here at TMV.

sheknows
Guest

Everyone copes with grief and tragedy differently. Some become angry and emotional and “in your face”. Others step back from the intensity and become more objective and analytical. The fact that so many here have commented and remained with this thread shows very deep feeling about what we all share. Horror, pain, disbelief and deep sorrow.

wpDiscuz