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Posted by on Mar 24, 2016 in Politics | 42 comments

Sanders supporters warn: they won’t vote for Hillary

Bernie Sanders flashed peace symbol in solidarity with Belgium on day of terror attacks. Photo by Chris Stone

Bernie Sanders flashed peace symbol in solidarity with Belgium on day of terror attacks. Photo by Chris Stone


Sanders supporters warn: they won’t vote for Hillary
by Ken Stone
Times of San Diego

SAN DIEGO — Dylan Souza wore a Pokémon outfit, including yellow headgear, to the San Diego Convention Center. But his presence Tuesday night at the Bernie Sanders rally wasn’t Comic-Con kid stuff.

If the Vermont senator doesn’t win the Democratic nomination, he said, “I’d probably end up voting for Elizabeth Warren” as a write-in for president.

Souza, a 24-year-old from Cypress (near Anaheim), wasn’t alone.

Among thousands cheering for Sanders were many jeering any mention of Hillary Clinton on a large screen showing CNN or MSNBC results of voting in Arizona, Utah and Idaho. At one point, a brief chant began: “Turn it off! Turn it off!” referring to the TV.

Teresa Whitney of Point Loma said: “I’ve loved Hillary a long time until she started taking all her money from big corporations. I love that Bernie is one of us.”

Whitney, 61, said she contributed to Sanders’ campaign “all the time.”

Sean Train of North Park, an Independent who last voted for Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson, said if Sanders doesn’t win the Democratic nod, “my vote will end up going to a third party.”

Saying he wants to break up the two-party monopoly, the 30-year-old Train declared: “Now that we know fully and definitively that we live in an oligarchy, and no longer a democracy, we need someone radical like Bernie to flip things around and get us back on track.”

Wayne Peters of Pacific Beach, a retired San Diego City College and Southwestern College teacher who calls himself a cancer researcher, was unequivocal.

He said if Sanders doesn’t win his party’s nomination in Philadelphia, he “definitely” won’t vote for Clinton, and “it’s not going to Trump.”

“Doesn’t [Sanders] have the option to re-register as an Independent?” asked Peters, 68.

And another PB resident, John Nicksiz, had one big reason to oppose Clinton — her early support for the TPP — the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement.

Nicksiz, at 74 the same age as Sanders, said he spent 37 years as a steel worker in Indiana mills, retiring in 1980.

“I won’t vote for her,” he said, suggesting that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce expects her to again back TPP. “I’ll write Bernie in.”

Of a dozen rally-goers quizzed by Times of San Diego, only a handful said they’d vote for Clinton if she is the party’s standard-bearer.

But not enthusiastically, they said.

Sanders capitalized on such energy Tuesday despite CNN calling the Arizona primary for his opponent about 15 minutes before he began his standard stump speech.

He declared near the end of his 45-minute talk: “If there’s a large voter turnout, we will win in California” on June 7.

Scheduled to start at 8 p.m., the rally didn’t begin until 8:27, when TV and film star Rosario Dawson made a heart with her hands and said:

“You’re here because you’re talking to each other” and not at the orders of the Democratic National Committee. “We need you now more than ever. Youth has been on the right side of history on every issue.”

And: “If you want to beat Trump, vote Bernie.”

Sanders recited his popular-with-young-people plans, including free public-college tuition, loosening of marijuana limits and campaign finance reform.

He got the usual laughs with: “I have been criticized for saying this, so let me say it again: I believe health care is a right for all people.”

But perhaps the biggest cheers from an estimated 8,800-person indoor audience came when he said his campaign would side with Latinos on immigration — and end what he called the exploitation of 11 million undocumented people.

Dozens of Secret Service agents were present for security, but no threats were observed — just a topless woman in the crowd.

“Well, when your nipples are #Bern ing, time to cool them off!” said a response to images posted on social media.

This article is reprinted from the Times of San Diego which, along with The Moderate Voice, is a member of the San Diego Online News Association.

Click here for reuse options!
Copyright 2016 The Moderate Voice
  • There are nobody serious about politics that care about a bunch of young Bernie-whiners who represent the worst of the the millennials, a whining group of college kids who feel entitled to everything without ever having had to work for anything. The majority of these whiners are among the electoral group who never even bother to turn up on election day in the first place but those who are, come November when the choice is between Hillary and Trump, will not even blink before voting for Hillary because they do understand just how much more distrastrously difficult they will make life for themselves if they don’t vote for Hillary, and come 2020 they will be back in force to vote for our Madame President because they will see how she will make good on her valid, serious and realistic policy proposals!

    • KP

      Those students must be the whiners at Emory university who still have chalk on their hands from what they wrote about on the cement 🙂

      This is what professors are teaching today. Heard at a local university pub:

      “What’s your major?

      “I major in whining and minor in agitation.”

      “Me too!”

      “Bet we can’t get a job after graduating.”

      “Yeah, we better vote for Bernie.”

    • Orange

      Excuse me? I’m on board with them and I average 60 hour weeks in a damp, dingy warehouse forming metal parts on rusty machines. It’s just like a comfortable boomer to denigrate the younger generation for not being nihilistic pragmatists.

      • The Ohioan

        You have to realize; the 61, 68, and 74-year-olds quoted don’t count. Only the 24 year old who can be zeroed in on as a “Bernie whiner” is fair game; consigned to the refuse that litter our institutions of higher learning – malingerers every single one, along with their pinko professors. 🙂

        Europeans must find it frustrating – trying and failing to understand Sanders voters

        • KP

          To be clear, I have 25 and 28 year old daughters who both work 60hrs a week. I have nothing bad to say about millennials (19-39?). I don’t like that kind of labeling anymore than assuming baby boomers are comfortable. Both are fraught with error.

          I did take some liberty with whiners at Emory University who whined to the president Wagner about seeing Trump’s name in chalk.

          Remind me of Fee Waybill’s from 1975!

          Dweebs 🙂

          • JSpencer

            “I have nothing bad to say about millennials (19-39?). I don’t like that kind of labeling anymore than assuming baby boomers are comfortable. Both are fraught with error.”

            +1

    • Slamfu

      What you call valid and realistic I call submission to the GOP narrative. Hell, she can’t even talk about raising taxes in a debate, which is precisely what needs to be done. The GOP has done such a good job beating down the DNC that even they basically let the GOP decide what is and isn’t something we can even talk about. 70% of voters are staying home, and the ones that aren’t are voting GOP, because the DNC can’t inspire or motivate people into thinking there is another valid choice out there, another direction we can take things.

      Clinton personifies the losing strategy of the last 8 years. The strategy fully endorsed by one of her closest political allies and former campaign co-chair Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, whose shortcomings I can go on for days about. Percentage of registered voters has gone from 39% to 29% in the last 8 years, the GOP has run the tables electorally everywhere but the White House, and and that despite the GOP being weaker than ever as a party. The GOP is a party of lunacy and incompetence and has been for years now, and yet the DNC doesn’t seem to be able to beat them, ever wonder why? It’s because instead of attacking the GOP for their weaknesses, the DNC pretends for some reason those are unassailable strengths, and tries to not offend anyone by sounding too liberal.

      • JSpencer

        Someone needs to explain to the GOP there is no such thing as “free stuff”. Either we invest wisely in America or it falls apart. Do we actually need more evidence of this? Maybe they want it to fall apart.

  • KP

    Will the Dem and Repub divides within each party end up having the same effect as a third party candidate due to no shows and write-ins?(!)

    • The Ohioan

      Could turn out to be the first presidency to be decided by the House in 191 years. Not sure if there’s going to be enough popcorn – ever.

      • KP

        indeed!

  • SteveK

    That’s the way the world goes ’round

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNu46mpJC60

    • SteveK

    • SteveK

  • JSpencer

    If in the end, Sanders supporters are foolish enough to help put a Cruz, Trump, or even a Ryan into the white house, then they will have shown themselves to be no better than supporters of the same. Claims to principle, rationalizations, and/or excuses (however they are dressed up) will carry no weight if that happens. As my Dad used to say, the proof is in the pudding.

    • DocPolitics

      Bravo

    • Slamfu

      They won’t do that. The entire argument that Sanders supporters are going to not vote for Clinton if she wins is just a meme to paint Sanders folks as nutjobs. There is no polling data to indicate that the people who do fit in that category exist in any statistically relevant numbers. Like every primary, there will be heated assertions like this, but after it’s over the party closes ranks and moves on. Every time.

  • Petulant adolescents can’t be trusted to turn-out anyway. So long as they don’t vote for Trump or Cruz, the demographics are clear and we’ve got this one.

  • roseyrey

    I find it very disturbing that Sanders himself now seems to be supporting this. Until this week, he’s been clear that he would support Clinton if he loses the primary. Now he’s saying that unless Clinton takes up each of his campaign points, he will not be supporting her.

    Each person gets to do with their vote what they wish, even if it’s wasting it on a write-in or sitting out the election. Pretending that doing so is somehow a principled or progressive stance is laughable. The day that Trump or Cruz is elected, we lose every executive order protecting people like the trans individuals who now get passports with their correct gender (thanks to Hillary, by the way), or LGBT couples, we lose the court (many, many courts across the country, in fact), we lose the veto of overturn of ACA, meaning millions will lose their newly-won health care, my guess is in the first week. Your care about the environment, hope for fighting climate change? Haw! I’m sure President Cruz will get right on that. My guess is President Cruz will sweep in a 20-week (12 maybe?) no-exceptions abortion ban, which will ruin the lives and maybe kill many women before it gets upheld by a court system packed with Scalia clones. Voting rights? Hahahaha, good luck if you’re not white!

    So go ahead: vote your conscience. Maybe think hard about what the conscience is really going to feel in January, though.

  • The Ohioan

    Looks like we’re talking about petulant adults, if the ages in the article are correct. Not sure what “a handful” out of 12 voters means…2? 4?, must be less than 7, right? Maybe a number rather than the dismissive appellation of “a handful” would be more meaningful.

    Any Sanders supporter that refuses to vote for the VP and for the rest of the down ticket candidates deserves every insult hurled in their direction; without a Dem dominated House and Senate, a Trump or Cruz President will be a terrible burden on our democratic process.

    Any Sanders supporter that votes for Clinton for President while considering her to be a danger to the Presidency, is the exact twin of any Rep. that votes for Trump or Cruz while considering them to be a danger to the Presidency.

    Any Sanders supporter that votes for Clinton will be responsible for whatever good or ill comes from that decision. No complaining will be acceptable. If you trust her enough to vote for her, you must be willing to live with your choice.

    It’s not as black or white as most portray. There are important considerations that must be weighed in every possible vote whether for Clinton, Sanders, Trump or Cruz (or whoever finally ends up on the ballot). Much depends on career members in the Military, Department of Justice, Department of State and their ability and willingness to keep any President and any Congress within the law and the constraints of the Constitution. We have seen how Presidents can misuse their power, and, on the other hand, fail to use their power effectively. It is not as easy a choice as we could hope it would be, and to dismiss any doubts as unimportant or simple obstinacy is not an accurate read.

    There are serious doubts about each and every one of these candidates and we all know it.

    • Doubts? Yes. Responsibility? Some. Responsible for whatever good or ill comes from that decision? No! Someone else’s actions do NOT define my morality. If I vote for someone who will do less evil than another; I am NOT responsible for the evil the former does. I am responsible for the evil the latter does NOT.

      • The Ohioan

        Nice try, but I’d say we’re responsible for whatever comes from our vote. If we vote for Trump and he decides Putin isn’t such a great guy after all and we need to kick him out of the Ukraine – we’re responsible. We knew he might, even probably would, follow such a course.

        It’s not that we don’t know enough about all these candidates to predict how they will probably act in office. We have their moral choices over many years to rely on. They may behave better, even much better than we expect. But they could behave much worse and then we’ll feel like kicking ourselves.

  • sparrow

    Will just sigh and forego the cheap shots about the millenniums. By the way, we older ones have given them so much to be grateful for… here i will reframe from listing the current state of our country, the world, and the environment…Seems to me we would all do better to take thoughtful radical responsibility for what we have created for the young people and their children to be than to further reduce ourselves to degrading name calling…

    Concerning whether i would vote for Hilary if Sanders is not successful…at first it was a resounding yes…no longer can say that, will do a write in…

    Many of Hillary’s fans will declare that is a vote for Donald Trump… It might be and it might be a vote to further shatter the polarized beast of American politics that has us all in it’s death grip of inertia ….

    This op-ed piece by David Brooks is the most intelligent piece of writing i have read this political season… It concerns the progression of ‘revolutions’… Perhaps, the best vote is the one that will allow the process to move through all the stages, so something new can emerge which is beyond the current system that feeds off so many in this world, the elite… Something has to change, and Hillary will only add to the problem. ( Remember when Hillary was in charge of the White House as FirstWoman and the Lincoln Bedroom was sold out to the biggest contributors? What would that one look like in the Oval Office? As freaky as the GOP is these days, i see more promise in the post Trump era than extending the same old same old… imho

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/opinion/the-post-trump-era.html?_r=0

    • JSpencer

      Pragmatism can be hard, but it’s not as hard as abdicating responsibility. Someone needs to explain this to David Brooks.

      • sparrow

        Even political movements such as the GOP ‘have the right to die’ and move through the stages … to prolong the agony for the nation might be the greatest responsibility and the most humane..

        • JSpencer

          Yes, those stages will take place – eventually, but however obvious it seems to many of us, I’m not convinced the GOP understands what’s been happening and why. They know something has gone terribly wrong, but still resist holding themselves accountable. Until they engage in that sort of honest self-examination, the “stages” that take place will be in the form of reaction, not direction.

          • Brownies girl

            JS writes: “Until they engage in that sort of honest self-examination, the “stages” that take place will be in the form of reaction, not direction.”

            Agree whole-heartedly. I just hope there are still a few GOP leaders capable of “honest self-examination” — am not sure there are.

    • Davebo

      “This op-ed piece by David Brooks is the most intelligent piece of writing i have read this political season…”

      That’s just sad. You need to broaden your reading sources.

  • Slamfu

    I keep seeing this meme floating around and just once I’d like some stats to back it up. Yes, some Sanders fans are rabid enough to not vote for Clinton if she wins, but lets have some stats? Is is 50% of them? 1%? I’m pretty sure it’s less than 1% in actuality, and that this is just being used as another dumb club to hit people with that in reality is not reality. Sure, they can find a person to quote who says the most outlandish thing, then pretend that represents a larger group. I call shenanigans. Like EVERY OTHER PRIMARY EVER people will get worked up, but once it’s over they remember which team they support and vote accordingly.

    Unless I missed it somewhere and someone has done a study to prove that this is a statistically relevant number of people in this crazy camp of “Sanders or nobody!” and not just somebody making a mountain out of a molehill for no reason. And for the record, 40 y/o, male, small business owner, Pro Adam Smith capitalist, pro New Deal, pro raising taxes to pay for stuff, pro regulation, liberal white guy here who is pretty sure he knows better than everyone else, just like most of us here 🙂

    • JSpencer

      Never underestimate the entertainment value of speculation.

    • The Ohioan

      I suspect there are enough of the Sanders and the Trump voters who are new to voting (or new to voting in this millennium), and are also not willing to vote for other than their candidate, to be statistically significant. The problem is finding out the real numbers because people are prone to fuzz their answers to the people who are asking. Polls and studies are in a wholly different zone than usual which is disorienting

      A more interesting question may be why two such different personalities became the agents of such massive change at the same time – without collusion, as far as we know. This election will be studied for the rest of this century, and maybe this millennium, depending on what happens – and I don’t mean just the election.

      • sparrow

        agree TO…
        “May you live in interesting times” known as the Chinese curse…

        We are living ‘the’ interesting times…

      • DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

        Just saying… ‘may you live in interesting times’ is a tired old quip by an American. It is not Chinese anything. My grandson from Asia, speaks Mandarin, his first language. He says firstly, IF there were ;a Chinese curse; that it would be the height of disrespect to repeat such a thing without proper purpose and containment, that such words can snag others and dishearten them. My Asian colleagues consider this phony ‘curse’ to be part of ‘the Charlie Chan’ idea many Americans carry and spout about Asians in a racist view of Asians who are considered exotic, evil, savage, filled with curses, wise beyond belief and other claptrap. It is the same plaint many of us who are biracial, particularly Native American, deal with also. Phony curses, phony blessings, all whipped up completely out of context, misquoted, and made up.

        I’d mention too that it makes no sense to me to dun any generation because of words or actions of ten or one-thousand from that generation. Nor tout any generation, even if one million of that generation did good.

        I resist utterly the idea that any generation has ever had the power to turn the governments of their world to their dreams. It has never been so. We cannot, even cross generationally, force our government to stop creating nuclear weaponry, stop the war involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, force our government to stop pretending agent orange /DOW/ Monsanto/ Round Up exposure doesnt murder soldiers when the enemy did not, cant force the government buddy-boys to stop their filthy accumulation of lucre from war machines and contracts that benefit the likes of Cheney, Halliburton, Blackwater, cant force our government to protect our water and creatures, cant force our own government to with all dispatch unleash the curing of cancer instead of the gigantic $$$$ moolah-industry of merely ‘treating’ it, cant force, cajole or persuade our own government to care for the elderly, the sick, the desperately poor, cant force one’s own govt to righteous prosecution of evil bankers and criminal securites and stock persons who literally caused the collapse of the world economy,loss of millions of family homes, suicides of desperate people, no where to turn for food, shelter, sustenance. Cant cause our government to STOP deporting innocent hardworking persons, tearing families apart.

        Dont tell me x or y generation ‘ruined’ the world.

        Look to where the power to force change is tourniquetted, name the names of the very few who are invested in severing of power from the people, so they can live like self annointed kings with their gangs of perfumed and coifed thugs. Ya basta. Leave the ‘generations’ be. Live and let live.

        JS is right about what would elucidate “…honest self-examination.” Brownie’s girl is correct “…hope there are still a few GOP leaders capable of “honest self-examination” TO is insightful “Polls and studies are in a wholly different zone than usual which is disorienting”… so true… polls are a diversion, something like racehorse prediction, but even more so, they are often meant to dishearten. Surely we remember that in ancient mythos and fairytales, the heads of armies lied to the soldiers of the other side, hoping to weaken them by predicting, declaring the Great Seer or the Oracle or the Hag at the Gates foresaw their defeat.

        really, polls are no different imho. They purport to give info, but in fact they are I think, not so clever psychological weapons to engage the ‘this is a some cheap laconically exciting horseracce’ mentality we all carry, instead of ‘this election is critical for the decency and survival of the world’s people’. Polls, I think, far too often disengage critical thinking and effective action. Same for ‘calling the winner’ before all votes are in. How many disheartened then do not vote even tho polls are still open. And as for cheering for ones candidate, it is good to remember I think, that the candidate is making mere promises. What they WILL DO and be ABLE to do, if elected, is where their avid ‘followers’ need to follow them right into the Oval Office and not just go home and say as old Bush did, Mission accomplished. The mission IS NOT accomplished at election of one’s candidate. Not.

        KP said it. He learns from his children. We all learn from the young, I think. I have a passel of them myself… and they are so clear, so often. And heartfelt. We were too. Are still. Most of us.

        Keep the faith.

        • Your discourse reminds me of Billy Joel’s song, “We Didn’t Start the Fire.”

          • Archangel

            an amazing song Robert, thanks for bringing it … it was a monster song that took many into not only remembering, but re-upping to renew one’s efforts, as I put it over and over : To do what one can within one’s reach…

            The lines I love best: “We didn’t start the fire
            No, we didn’t light it
            But we tried to fight it”…

            Not just trying. Doing. Still. Most all of us in ways that will ever matter… within our reach. And then some.

            [Verse 1]
            Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnnie Ray
            South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio
            Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, Television
            North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe
            Rosenbergs, H-Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
            Brando, The King And I, and The Catcher In The Rye
            Eisenhower, Vaccine, England’s got a new queen
            Marciano, Liberace, Santayana goodbye

            [Chorus]
            We didn’t start the fire
            It was always burning
            Since the world’s been turning
            We didn’t start the fire
            No, we didn’t light it
            But we tried to fight it

            [Verse 2]
            Joseph Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser and Prokofiev
            Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bloc
            Roy Cohn, Juan Peron, Toscanini, Dacron
            Dien Bien Phu Falls, “Rock Around the Clock”
            Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn’s got a winning team
            Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland
            Bardot, Budapest, Alabama, Khrushchev
            Princess Grace, Peyton Place, Trouble in the Suez

            [Chorus]

            [Verse 3]
            Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouac
            Sputnik, Zhou Enlai, Bridge On The River Kwai
            Lebanon, Charles de Gaulle, California baseball
            Starkweather Homicide, Children of Thalidomide
            Buddy Holly, Ben-Hur, Space Monkey, Mafia
            Hula Hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go
            U-2, Syngman Rhee, payola and Kennedy
            Chubby Checker, Psycho, Belgians in the Congo

            [Chorus]

            [Verse 4]
            Hemingway, Eichmann, Stranger in a Strange Land
            Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion
            Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania
            Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson
            Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician sex
            J.F.K. blown away, what else do I have to say?

            [Chorus]

            [Verse 5]
            Birth control, Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again
            Moonshot, Woodstock, Watergate, punk rock
            Begin, Reagan, Palestine, Terror on the airline
            Ayatollah’s in Iran, Russians in Afghanistan
            Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal suicide
            Foreign debts, homeless Vets, AIDS, crack, Bernie Goetz
            Hypodermics on the shores, China’s under martial law
            Rock and Roller cola wars, I can’t take it anymore

            [Chorus]
            We didn’t start the fire
            It was always burning since the world’s been turning
            We didn’t start the fire
            But when we are gone
            It will still burn on, and on, and on, and on…

        • JSpencer

          Speaking of Agent Orange, last week my seatmate on a returning flight from Florida was a retired Chicago cop who was telling me his younger brother died as a result of exposure to the stuff, and that he too suffered from it’s effects. Needless to say, both are/were Vietnam vets. He didn’t have much good to say about the government in that regard. My hometown (which to this day is littered with reactionaries) produced the stuff. : (

          • @JS:

            The deadly legacy of Agent Orange is still with us and continues to take the lives of many of our Vietnam War veterans.

            While no consolation for those who have already left us or who are beyond saving, the VA (albeit too slowly and too late for many) continues to expand the list of associated ailments and resulting eligibility for health benefits, disability and other benefits.

            This piece (http://themoderatevoice.com/va-updates-agent-orange-information/) written almost five years ago discussed the VA’s expansion of diseases related to Agent Orange and other herbicides and of service periods and areas making veterans eligible for such benefits.

            This August, the VA may add more health problems* linked to Agent Orange and other herbicide exposures that could make yet more veterans eligible for health benefits and disability compensation this August.

            Every year, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) reviews evidence of health problems linked to Agent Orange, including the review of all published medical and scientific literature on the subject permitting the VA secretary to take action on the IOM recommendations.

            Again, no consolation for many, but perhaps new hope for others.

            *”…those suffering from bladder cancer, hypothyroidism, Parkinson’s-like symptoms and even high blood pressure…”

          • DR. CLARISSA PINKOLA ESTÉS, Managing Editor of TMV, and Columnist

            thanks dorian, appreciate the notes on progress. They have been fighting for relief since before the war ended in 1978, and so so many have died, and so many are so ill and now in their early, late 70s with diseases that take parts and pieces from them… one of my cousins, 10 of my classmates the kids of E Eu immigrants and refugees, seven of my colleagues who are Lakota and Diné, a fine Irish firefighter at 911 … hundreds of the veterans who had exposure over the ‘war’ and I listened to their stories, including the massive illnesses amongst the forgotten allies, the south vietnamese… all dead or dying from Agent Orange.

            Dorian, I hope you will place your comment from here in an article, so everyone can know there is hope and know the updates… to keep the subject which is a huge form of discrimination against the violently ill, those sent into harms’ way in ways they never dreamed would rob them of their very lives–while still alive. I think it would be good and you are the person to write it, to keep the entire matter above the waterline

          • Thank you for your interest and comments on this and my euthanasia remarks.

            It is always good and uplifting to hear from you.

  • dduck

    I will cancel one nohillaryvote with my voteforhillaryugh.

    • Okay, then I’ll double your sacrifice

      • dduck

        Welcome fellow Rep. 🙂

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