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Posted by on Dec 21, 2012 in Breaking News, Crime, Education, Featured, Politics, Society | 23 comments

Police State Is NRA’s Answer (With News, Twitter, Blog Roundup)

Bob Englehart, The Hartford Courant

It was probably foolish to think something useful would come from watching the NRA “news conference”. This “news conference” allowed for no questions from the press.

Following a transparent expression of grief for the families who lost loved ones in Newtown, the “news conference” proceeded into a blame game that held everyone responsible for the tragedy. Everyone, that is, except the NRA. The one thing the NRA did not do was take any responsibility for its policies or demonstrate any reflection on its positions or how any of those policies or positions may have contributed to gun violence in America. If you believe in taking personal responsibility, you did not see it from the NRA today. But, boy did they blame everyone else.

They blamed an “unknown number of monsters” in our society who heard voices in their heads. Understand this. They are referring to the mentally ill as an “unknown number of monsters.” They also made reference to the criminal element. And, so you appreciate it, reference to criminals was different than the “unknown number of monsters”. To equate mental illness with monsters is, in one word, inexcusable.

The NRA then blamed the media, accusing them of rewarding mentally ill monsters with the “wall to wall attention” they crave. Later in the presentation, the media would again be blamed for demonizing lawful gun owners.

Then video games were blamed. Then film makers were blamed. Then politicians were blamed for trying to exploit the tragedy “for political gain.” Federal prosecutors were blamed for not being vigilant enough in prosecuting federal gun crimes.

The NRA’s solution? Put armed guards in schools. And that helps in movie theaters and shopping malls, how? A “program” was announced called the National School Shield Program to be headed by former congressman Asa Hutchinson. At its core was, you guessed it, armed personnel in every school.

What never came into question? The proliferation of firearms in America and the NRA’s own policies. Yes, by all means, let us send our children to be educated in armed camps. But, God forbid the NRA should take a look in the mirror.

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The NRA just wrapped up a long-awaited press conference to address the recent tragedy at Sandy Hook. The event was hyped as containing a major announcement for the organization who has come under fire for its agenda as the number and severity of mass shootings continues to rise in America.

So, what would the big announcement be? Would they finally be willing to admit that assault weapons aren’t necessary for hunting? That people don’t need extended magazines in machine guns for personal protection?

Please, the answer is more guns, of course.

I’m writing about this here, in our little corner of the site, because in the speech, Wayne LaPierre, executive vice-president of the NRA, cited violent video games as a contributing factor in tragedies like these. ”Guns don’t kill people.” he said. “Video games, the media and Obama’s budget kill people.” He even called out a few by name:

“There exists in this country, sadly, a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people, through vicious, violent video games with names like “Bulletstorm,” “Grand Theft Auto,” “Mortal Kombat,” and “Splatterhouse.”

No form of media was sparred however, as he also mentioned “bloodsoaked” movies and even violent music videos as influencing young minds. Because we’re still enjoying the gangster rap of the ’90s, after all.

The message here was clear, blame everything but guns. Why bother considering that violent video games are played in all corners of the world, yet somehow it’s only the US with its lax gun laws where tragedies like this happen at this frequency? Video games are an easy target, almost as easy as the NRA itself who is doing everything it can to act like they’re the solution to the problem, not one of the primary causes.

The press conference went from standard stump speech to truly bizarre when the NRA’s big idea to help protect children in school turned out to be a national program to enlist an army of volunteers to patrol the corridors of high schools, junior highs and elementary schools, keeping the kids safe from potential shooters. A direct quote from LaPierre: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

He is literally suggesting that retired police and military members patrol schools with guns. The program would be nationwide, and schools could opt out of it, but that would be up to the faculty and the parents. You know, those freedom-haters who who WANT their children to be at risk.

Go to the link to read it all.

A cross section of Tweets
Seth Meyers [email protected] suggests the group has now done HUGE damage to its image and given its opponents political…ammunition:

NRA: If we banned schools there would never be another school shooting.

4m Slate [email protected]
Shooting in Pennsylvania kills at least four during NRA press conference:

11m DC Debbie [email protected]
A national registry for the mentally ill should include any NRA member who doesn’t shred their card after watching that press conference

11m [email protected]
The @NRA said they want to have a conversation — but refused to accept a petition signed by +235K Americans

14m Invisible Obama [email protected]
“What if we actually weren’t humans…just characters in an NRA video game?” – Keanu Reeves

14m Jamie Dupree [email protected]
Rep Chris Murphy D-CT on NRA statement today: “The most revolting, tone deaf statement I’ve ever seen”

18m several_ [email protected]
Shorter NRA: We just wanted to remind everyone that we are the most sociopathic organization in all of US politics.

21m AmberTozer [email protected]
[email protected] I just added u to my mentally ill database bc you’re responsible for the guns good guys buy that bad guys use to kill the good guys

23m Gavin Juniper [email protected]
#nra already damned by history with their kindergarten cop plan. Columbine HAD an armed peace keeper during school

24m Steve Silberman [email protected]
Important: NRA called for “active national database of mentally ill.” O RLY. Depressed folks? Autistic kids? Who draws lines?

24m Mediaite [email protected]
Michael Steele Left Speechless By ‘Very Haunting And Very Disturbing’ NRA Press Conference (VIDEO) …

25m Michael [email protected]
I now see what the Mayans predicted about today has come true. Except that the only world that’s going to end is the NRA’s.

26m The Fake CNN [email protected]
Breaking: NRA offers to send Liam Neeson to your school

28m davidfrum [email protected]
RT @SovernNation: NRA imposes a 3-day waiting period on reporters wanting to ask questions at its “news conference.” Background checks too?

Andy Levy
That press conference is exactly why I’m a *former* NRA member.

Something truely shocking about seeng the US NRA in the flesh: A real whiff of the Taliban about their irational love of the gun.

34m John Elerick [email protected]
NRA: “the issue isn’t guns, it’s children, so we want to ban children. in 18 years… problem solved. thank you, no questions please.”

34m Anonymous [email protected]
Are you a @NRA memeber and their PR pisses you off as much as it did us? Send back your card to show them that they don’t speak for you.

34m Sir Michael [email protected]
Residents of Pompeii: “We’re worried that Mount Vesuvius is going to erupt.” NRA: “Have you considered adding more volcanoes?”

36m davidfrum [email protected]
NRA message: Higher taxes for more guns in school.

Bette [email protected]
NRA says we need armed guards at every school. Well, since NRA IS SHILLING FOR THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY, this makes good sense for them.

39m Seth Meyers [email protected]
NRA: If we banned schools there would never be another school shooting.

45m Megan Ganz [email protected]
Why don’t we just put an armed NRA member in every classroom? That way there would either be fewer school shootings, or fewer NRA members.

45m davidfrum [email protected]
NRA is imagining Marshall Will Kane guarding every US school. I’m imagining an armed Barney Fife.

46m Chris Majewski [email protected]
#NoWayNRA Thanks, NRA for using the death of children as a means to promote your personal agenda of ignorance. You’re all asses.

47m Amanda [email protected]_like_wine
The NRA’s only contribution this morning was yet another nail in the coffin of logical thought.

52m Kyle Lippert [email protected]_Lippert
Following the NRA’s logic, cigarette companies are now blaming lung cancer on lighters.

52m Reuters Top News [email protected]
NRA goes on offensive as Americans mourn school shooting

56m Mike Drucker [email protected]
“The only way to stop shootings is to give more people guns to shoot with.” – NRA

56m Lu Lippold [email protected]
If you haven’t already donated to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, NOW IS THE TIME. @bradybuzz #nra

57m Josh Marshall [email protected]
I didnt expect NRA to change stripes, core policies. But that stunned me. Didn’t expect a screed. Left me wanting to throw up. Upset.

57m Chase Mitchell [email protected]
Just want to point out the NRA’s plan to stop school shootings is literally the plot of Kindergarten Cop.

59m Justin Wolfers [email protected]
Advice for the @NRA: Next time, have Oprah do the press conference. Much more upbeat: “A gun for you! And for you! And for every school!”

59m davidfrum [email protected]
NRA “shield” plan, if taken at all seriously, means TSA everywhere, forever.

59m Clara Jeffery [email protected]
NRA speechwriters < Romney internal pollsters. @davidfrum Fiscal cliff + NRA = a movement unable to achieve even instrumental rationality. 1h Michael Moore [email protected] "@jayrosen_nyu: Exact quote frm NRA press conference. "This is the beginning of a serious conversation. We won't be taking any questions."" 1h Boing Boing [email protected] Shorter NRA: the solution to gun killings in schools is gun battles in schools. 1h Jeremy Littau [email protected] If I follow correctly, LaPierre is advocating regulation of video game guns but not real ones. Konami NRA might have a problem with this. 1h Invisible Obama [email protected] NRA: "The only way to fight obesity is with more cheeseburgers." 1h Lydia DePillis [email protected] Kudos to the @NRA for the ballsiness of proposing the government reward it for Sandy Hook with a giant gun-industry stimulus package. 1h Eric Boehlert [email protected] between the Boehner fiasco last night and the NRA's meltdown today, we're watching the condensed destruction of the conservative movement 1h Jeff Green [email protected] Congratulations to the @nra for grotesquely encapsulating everything wrong with this country today. An utter embarrassment to humanity. 1h Anonymous [email protected] Republican congressmen are now free to talk about gun control, now that they've been given their official position by the @NRA. #YAN 1h Anonymous [email protected] George Zimmerman was an armed volunteer "watchman" do we really want this in our schools, @NRA? 1h TJ [email protected] If guns don't kill people, and violent videogames kill people, why not just put violent videogames in schools instead of armed guards? #nra 1h Josh Greenman [email protected] THIS IS NOT THE DAY TO POLITICIZE THE NRA'S PRESS CONFERENCE. 1h Russ Pitts [email protected] Dear @NRA: As a result of your failure to lead on the critical issue of reasonable gun controls, I hereby resign my NRA membership. 1h Michael Moore [email protected] NRA head says everyone is to blame but them. The most deranged, delusional "press conference" I've ever seen. 1h Jay Rosen [email protected]_nyu That the NRA's CEO had a press conference at which no member of the press was allowed to ask him questions settles the legitimacy question. 1h Jim Norton [email protected] Watching Wayne LaPierre's press conference. The NRA is right on the money with this issue. 1h Jonathan Capehart [email protected] An extraordinary statement by NRA's Wayne LaPierre delivered from an alternate reality. Arm everyone everywhere. 1h Stephanie Cutter [email protected] NRA press conference is sad day for our democracy. If we're all to blame, then accept your share and get out of the way of our safety. 1h Carey Hart [email protected] Love me or hate me, I back @NRA. Dude spoke a lot of truth and is making valid points. 1h ThinkProgress [email protected] FLASHBACK: The NRA repeatedly responds to massacres by lobbying for weaker gun safety. 1h Rex Huppke [email protected] FUN FACT: The NRA's Wayne LaPierre is a recent graduate of the Mitt Romney School of Empathy. 1h Ben Fenton [email protected] I think the NRA just shot itself in the foot. 1h Matt Seaton [email protected] This NRA presser is not train wreck. It's an asteroid impact. Media profs will be teaching it for years as epic 'how not to' do crisis comms 1h Ezra Klein [email protected] It's amazing how much damage LaPierre is doing to the NRA without even allowing questions. 1h John Fugelsang [email protected] Guns don't kill people, NRA people who own Congress people just make it easier for crazy people to get guns & kill people 1h John Fugelsang [email protected] #NRA head Wayne LaPierre is explaining how all of our allies with substantially lower murder rates are less safe than us. 1h Christopher Hayes [email protected] This is a colossal fail for the NRA. Just total PR disaster. 1h Anonymous [email protected] Breaking: @NRA just got renamed to Not Rational Adults. 1h Steve Marmel [email protected] "Remember, Guns Don't Kill People… Fictional Guns Do." - LaPierre, NRA. 1h Indecision [email protected] NRA, shorter: Guns don't kill people. Reporters, courts, video games and hurricanes kill people. Oh, also movies. 1h Rachel Maddow MSNBC [email protected] The NRA has rickrolled the whole country into watching just another standard Wayne LaPierre stump speech saying we need more guns.

Crooks and Liars Susie Madrak:

As this mess unfolded, I found I was as angry at the media as I was at the NRA. Is there any wingnut so crazy that the librul media will refuse them a national platform? Of course not! LaPierre will be Dancing Dave Gregory’s guest on Press the Meat this weekend, and he will be accorded the same respect and thoughtful consideration as a Bishop Desmond Tutu.

In a way, though, Wayne may have done us all a favor. Normal people, anyone except the dyed-in-the-wool gun worshippers, will be repulsed by his rationalizations, and appalled by his “School Shield” program to put ARMED VOLUNTEERS IN EVERY SCHOOL.

As my mother would have said, “Jesus, Mary and Joseph, he’s just plain crazy.”

–Former RNC Chair and current MSNBC conservative contributor Michael Steele seemed almost in a state of shock over the press conference:

–The Huffington Post has an additional page of tweets HERE from David Frum’s page. MUST READING.

–America Prospect:

This morning, NRA president Wayne LaPierre held a press conference—occasionally interrupted by protesters—in which he explained where the organization stood in light of last week’s violence. But rather than stand behind the modest gun-regulation efforts brewing in Congress or even offer a simple message of condolence, LaPierre decided to go on the offensive, blaming everything from video games, movies ,and music—Natural Born Killers, a 20-year-old film, received a shoutout—to Obama’s budget for the proliferation of mass shooters.

In fact, the media came in for wide criticism: “A child growing up in America today witnesses 16,000 murders, and 200,000 acts of violence by the time he or she reaches the ripe old age of 18,” said LaPierre, “And, throughout it all, too many in the national media, their corporate owners, and their stockholders act as silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators.” The obvious implication to all of this was that someone ought to limit what media outlets can show, lest it leads to further violence—this despite the fact that there is no known connection between violent media and actual acts of violence.

But those statements, evasive and disingenuous as they were, paled in comparison to LaPierre’s proposal for dealing with school violence. Taking a page from Republican politicians like Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell, LaPierre has proposed a plan for mass arming of the nation’s schools

Daily Kos’ Joan McCarter:

Any doubts that the NRA has been overtaken by paranoid, conspiracy theorists who live in a cartoon world of good guys and bad guys had to be put to rest by the appalling press conference just held by the organization’s executive vice president Wayne LaPierre.

The upshot, 20 children in Newtown, Connecticut were killed last week because politicians passed gun-free school zone laws that made them sitting ducks and the only solution to prevent more massacres of children is to have—yes, this is really the proposal that the NRA has come up with in the wake of the tragedy—armed guards at every school in the nation.

It would be very difficult to overstate the appalling insensitivity LaPierre showed; the paranoia, the victimhood, the passing of blame onto every other possible entity—Congress, the people who fight the NRA, the video game manufacturers, Hollywood, the medical community….

…The NRA might have just done the one thing necessary for real progress on work on gun violence: exposing to a national audience that, as an organization supposedly representing responsible gun owners, it has completely lost its bearings. This should be the end of the NRA’s influence on the coming debate. It should, but only if the national media continues to react to LaPierre’s national meltdown with the shock it showed in its immediate response on twitter. LaPierre gets more attention from the Very Serious People this Sunday, when David Gregory gives him the national microphone.

Steve Hynd:

Armed NRA wingnuts in every school – including every inner-city High School – in America, deputized by the local cops so they get to play goosestepping clown legally. What could go wrong with that plan?

The Politico’s piece shows how BADLY this is playing:

The National Rifle Association stunned Washington observers Friday when the group’s CEO announced a plan to install armed guards at every school in the country — its response to the Connecticut shooting last week that left 20 children dead.

Wayne LaPierre called the idea the National School Shield program, which would rely on local police forces. It will be led by former Rep. Asa Hutchinson (R-Ark.).

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said. “Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away … or a minute away?”

–The Washington Post’s Jonathan Capehart:

One week after the slaughter at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the National Rifle Association’s Wayne LaPierre took to a microphone to deliver a defensive, crackpot speech that didn’t fully grasp the impact of the murder of 20 first-graders at the hands of a madman with an assault rifle. Everyone was to blame. The media and their corporate owners. The political class in Washington. Video games. Violent movies. The mentally ill. But at no point did he point his finger back at the NRA, the one institution that has made it difficult, if not impossible, to bring about common-sense firearms legislation in the country….

…..When the NRA broke its silence on Dec. 18, the gun rights group promised it was “prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.” LaPierre failed miserably at that task. What he had to say was not what the American people wanted to hear, needed to hear. What he said was an insult.

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  • slamfu

    The NRA is just insane.

  • dduck

    No, they are smart. They are going to bury their responsibility to the country by providing security expertise. BS, all.

  • cjjack

    So let me see if I’ve got this right…

    A video game where people are encouraged to shoot virtual guns at virtual targets is to blame for the violence.

    But an organization that encourages people to shoot real guns at real targets is not?

  • I spotted the madness of the right wing the other day.

    — the right hates paying taxes
    — the right works to defund government, including schools/teachers & mental health treatment among other things.
    — the right propagates “government as problem” and “government threatens your rights” to sell their agenda
    — fear of government feeds into the Gun Fetishist regime
    — gun fetishism leads to higher-power, higher capacity weapons that serve no civilian purpose
    — said weapons lead to more mass-shooting incidents
    — the right blames the mentally ill & says more needs to be done
    — the right says schools & public places need more armed guards
    — this basically causes an increase in government in terms of police & armed guards
    — this costs more money requiring an increase in taxes
    — this also results in bigger government, bigger ARMED government in civilian areas
    — this means we should be more afraid of government invasion into our lives
    — the cycle of life continues :groan:

    The Right is the snake eating its own tail. Or, more accurately, our own.

  • ordinarysparrow

    List of Ten of the craziest quotes NRA today complied by Think Progress:

    1) Gun-free schools zones “tell every insane killer in America that schools are their safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk.”

    2) “There exists in this country a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people.

    3) “[V]iolent crime is increasing again for the first time in 19 years! Add another hurricane, terrorist attack or some other natural or man-made disaster, and you’ve got a recipe for a national nightmare of violence and victimization.”

    4) “We need to have every single school in America immediately deploy a protection program proven to work —and by that I mean armed security.”

    5) “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away … or a minute away?”

    6) “And throughout it all, too many in our national media … their corporate owners … and their stockholders … act as silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators.”

    7) “Then there’s the blood-soaked slasher films like ‘American Psycho’ and ‘Natural Born Killers’ that are aired like propaganda loops on Splatterdays and every day, and a thousand music videos that portray life as a joke and murder as a way of life.”

    8) “In a race to the bottom, media conglomerates compete with one another to shock, violate and offend every standard of civilized society by bringing an ever-more-toxic mix of reckless behavior and criminal cruelty into our homes — every minute of every day of every month of every year.”

    9) “Through vicious, violent video games with names like Bulletstorm, Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse. And here’s one: it’s called Kindergarten Killers. It’s been online for 10 years. How come my research department could find it and all of yours either couldn’t or didn’t want anyone to know you had found it?”

    10) “Isn’t fantasizing about killing people as a way to get your kicks really the filthiest form of pornography?”

    Tidbits # 1….Threaten them at the core.

    Form a viable and credible organization to take on the NRA. That requires money, leadership, commitment and a willingness to play the power game. My suggestion would be an organization whose primary goal is repeal of the Second Amendment. This serves two purposes. Confronted with such opposition, it could be possible to derive certain concessions from the pro-gunners as they try to avoid giving impetus to a repeal movement (i.e. threaten them right at their core). The second purpose is that the Second Amendment might actually be repealed some day, giving rise to real gun control reform.

    You truly called that one right!..the only thing that will work is to go full power against them…reminded me of C.Heston’s “Cold Dead Hands hubris”..

    In truth i had to stop listening due to disgust. Are the wingnuts ever going to learn they are their worst enemy?

  • Just found the exact quote about the mentally ill that so offended me. This from Wayne LaPierre at today’s “news conference”:

    “The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters — people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them. They walk among us every day.”

    Every American with a mentally ill child, sibling, relative or friend should be repulsed by this.

    Like Sparrow, I too wanted to turn this obscenity of a “news conference” off after about five minutes. I heard it through only because I planned to write on it for TMV.

  • dduck

    Geez Barky, you forgot the horns and cloven hooves, please refer to the Insulting The Right handbook.

  • yoopermoose

    “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

    Now all we need is a law that all bad guys wear black hats, and all good guys wear white ones. What could possibly go wrong?

  • dduck

    How’s this one: Zimmerman somehow (It’s Florida) goes free. At loose ends until his book comes out, he volunteers to be a school security guard. I am trained and experienced neighborhood security watch person and have experience with firearms and police procedures, says Z on his interview with the NRA team setting up school security.

  • sheknows

    Thank you for the post Elijah. I commend you on your composure because I know I could not have listened to it.

    On the plus side: There are several anti-gun organizations that seem to be gaining strength. One I am impressed with is The Committed Majority For Sensible Gun laws started by Senator Dick Durbin. He has a petition online and has 13,000 signatures so far.
    Another one Is Mayor Bloombergs organization Mayors Against Guns. He also has received quite a bit of support and recently read where he received a sizeable donation from a rather wealthy celebrity.
    There are others out there but I feel if everyone who is seriously opposed to NRA control of our legislators would all pull together, perhaps getting behind influential politicians, we might have a chance to minimize their influence in the coming years and hopefully, once and for all.

  • sheknows

    Correction : Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

  • The_Ohioan

    Anything from Clint or Sylvester yet? Anything from any video producers yet? Anything from the producers of “24” yet? Anything from anyone who has contributed to the violence addiction in our society yet? Anything from the banks and investment firms that handle all the gazillions of dollars raised by those who promote violence under the first amendment protection of “artistic license” yet?

    I didn’t expect anything from Mr. LaPierre, his previous statements clearly show he is only interested in his bosses selling more guns and ammunition; I did expect someone in the entertainment industry to speak up by now. I’m waiting.

  • sheknows – thanks for the references. My view: they should all merge into one mega group big enough to take on NRA. Splintering the effort makes them easier to pick off one by one. An example is autism where many smaller groups are involved but no over-arching group serves as national spokesperson. Compare to the American Cancer Society, the Alzheimer’s Association or the Heart Association. Then compare the research dollars and national attention available to the various causes.

    Ohioan – Though I have been tracking reaction, I have not seen anything from video or film producers. Most reactions from the entertainment industry are like the tweets Joe G added above after the end of my article.

  • ordinarysparrow

    “The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters — people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them. They walk among us every day.”

    You are right Tidbits, that was despicable… i would not be surprised if many NRA and Teaparty members were to take the MMPI, the indicators for paranoia would be elevated. Maybe he does walk among ‘them’ everyday…?

    I have been looking for this online but have not found the answer, if anyone here knows would appreciate.

    When a person applies for a gun license how do they check for mental illness issues? If the mental health records are private then how could they check to make any kind of reliable assessment? Who would they contact? Surely not mental health professionals? Do they just take the person’s word or is it that they might pick up something on a police report, if the person has been charged for something? All of this is fuzzy for me i do not see how it would be possible to do checks without it being a violation of confidentiality?

  • Sparrow,

    Answer to your question comes from the Executive Director of the National Alliance on Mental Illness in a statement responding to the NRA’s statements today:

    Law already exists requiring states to report the names of people ‘adjudicated as mentally defective’ to the National Instant Background Check System (NICS). It has never been properly implemented because of confusion surrounding the highly stigmatizing term “mentally defective” and the uncertain meaning of ‘adjudicated.’

  • dduck

    OS, NYS had added 100,000 entries for mental health into the national DB. Most states have added very few. It is up to each state to make entries and the feds to properly administer the records.

    BTW: I getting disturbed my rumors of checking the DNAs and brain scans. What next, back to analyzing bumps on heads? Whenever there is a tragedy people get a little nutsy looking for some secret key to predicting future events. All that does is deflect some attention from taking away the tools of the murderers.

  • sheknows

    Elijah, what do you mean never implemented? Are you saying that due to semantics, no one can be denied a gun? What law, where? Maybe we need to rewrite the law so it’s clearer, not puzzle over what’s been written. SURELY there are definitions in there that clarify it. Heavens, go to any legal document and you will find definitions for everything! 🙂

    Last week I had proposed everyone getting a psychological profile when they apply for a gun permit. But based on what you say E, who would qualify to read it, and who to implement it? Someone would have to be able to say ” Well, based on your test results…… no gun for you”.

  • ordinarysparrow

    Thanks Tidbits and dduck….that is most interesting….

  • sheknows,

    This is a tough one. I understand what “adjudicated mentally deficient” generally means legally, but I’m not sure it helps in the arena of gun sales. On a regular basis there are “mental hearings” in various courts to determine whether a particular individual is mentally “competent”. The reasons can be anything from dementia related to aging to mental illness. The “adjudication” is generally done by a judge, with procedures and standards varying from state to state. The most common standard is “dangerous to self or others.”

    Competency hearings or mental hearings cover a tiny fraction of those we might regard as mentally ill. Most either go untreated, protected by family members, or they are treated privately. Those who go untreated are not recognized by the system. Those who are treated privately are shielded by medical privacy laws like HIPPA, as well as physician/patient confidentiality.

    Mental health assessment in the context of gun sales is a serious dilemma given that the vast majority who would fall into the category have never been “adjudicated” and will not be disclosed by family or cannot be disclosed by treating professionals.

    With all that said, I do not know what specific confusion the Exec. Dir. of NAMI was referring to in the implementation of the law as quoted in my prior comment.

  • rudi

    How’s this one: Zimmerman somehow (It’s Florida) goes free. At loose ends until his book comes out, he volunteers to be a school security guard.
    GZ murdered an unarmed teen carrying ice tea and Skittles. GZ’s would kill kids for being kids…

    Florida just had a shooting in a Little Caesar’s when some idiot became incensed when another customer complained when his pizza wasn’t ready. Stand your ground over a late pizza or a flat soda??

  • dduck

    rudi, sorry, I forgot to put a smiley face after my admittedly crass scenario.

  • ordinarysparrow

    This says something i have though while listening to the “it is my right to have as many guns as i want, because i am protected by the Second Amendment”, the one’s such as yesterday’s NRA that have a ‘But’ for any attempt for gun control that would make our culture more safe….

    As for the National Rifle Association bumper stickers arguing that only an armed citizenry can prevent tyranny, I wonder if that isn’t a form of narcissism, involving the belief that lone, heroic individuals will have the ability to identify tyranny as it descends, recognize it for what it is, and fight back. There is also the small matter that I don’t think America is remotely close to becoming a tyranny, and to suggest that it is is both irrational and a bit offensive to people who actually do live under tyrannical rule.

    This comes from The Economist

  • ordinarysparrow

    This is also an interesting consideration while contemplating the Second Amendment Rights.

    Does unrestricted gun rights stifle free speech, the First Amendment Rights?

    This morning was pondering on whether unrestricted gun rights trumped health and safety rights? Wonder if any legislation, which will likely find it way to the Supreme Court, if they will find the First and Second Amendment Rights locking horns?

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