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Posted by on Mar 21, 2010 in Health, Politics | 22 comments

Obama Beats GOP On Health Care

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Daryl Cagle, MSNBC.com

This copyrighted cartoon is licensed to appear on TMV. Unauthorized reproduction prohibited. All rights reserved.

  • shannonlee

    i must be on time delay….210 and counting.

  • shannonlee

    216…

  • ProfElwood

    219

  • Axel Edgren

    This isn’t about abortions you crazy person stop grandstanding!

    • shannonlee

      The House really needs to get itself in order.

  • DLS

    Well, Shannon, this didn’t merit my going out on the road to hear it transpire, as I did with Obama’s inauguration in January ’09 (“He’s in!”), but I did look at the news on-line and passage has happened.

    Time to call it.

    Did the Republicans succeed at the Greatest Goal Line Stand in Super Bowl History?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uYd0d-h_vw

    No.

    The Dems broke through and made it over the goal line.

    [whistling] TOUCHDOWN!

  • DLS
  • WagglebutII

    LAUS DEO! It’s done.

  • DLS

    The rest of the year may have just become interesting again.

    Will the Dems run rampant now? Stopped at Moscow, hell — it’s to the Urals at least, if not Vladivostok.

    (They weren’t thrown back!)

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Minard.png

    Will the GOP keep filibustering everything, and do nothing other than keep filibustering, everything until November?

  • Schadenfreude_lives

    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

    Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

    • DLS

      I wonder, actually, where we are currently: I believe we’re beyond selfishness at this point.

      • Schadenfreude_lives

        Dependency, heading towards bondage

    • pacatrue

      Intriguing idea, Scha. I think where I disagree is that it seems to assume people never vote for liberty and freedom. However, I think they clearly do. The idea presented (not clear if it’s a quote or not) has a very low opinion of people.

      Also, for many (I’ve always been mixed and ill-informed on the health care issue), universal coverage is actually a vote for liberty. Those who are unable to invest in business ideas because they are strapped with health debt, or those who cannot work as they wish due to lack of adequate medical support, are not as free as they could be.

      Think of it like incorporation and limited liability. The idea behind LLCs is that we limit the personal risk of doing business, which then allows people to do more than they would otherwise try. We hope that the result is net innovation and entrepreneurship. Similarly, if a person cannot leave their current job or move to another state or whatever, due to health care ties, then they are not being as innovative as they wish. If we can remove that risk, it could be to the benefit of society generally. This is not bondage. One of the critical ideas we hear is that we want a flexible workforce who can move and innovate as the economy changes — but then we sometimes tie that same workforce to a single company through health benefits.

      • Schadenfreude_lives

        The formation of an LLC is not the same at all.

        A LLC is first and foremost limited, which no government program can ever be truly thought of in those terms, as Congress can change those any time they wish, and as this is not limited at all, but forced upon all, supporters and detractors alike.

        Second, a LLC it is a voluntary construct, able to be disbanded at anytime. NO major government program has ever been voluntarily shut down.

        Third, creating an entitlement, to be funded by all, is twisting the words ‘liberty’ to the straining point and beyond. I want the ‘liberty’ of housing, so why not have the government provide housing for all? I want the liberty of movement, so all transportation should be provided by the government. I want fine clothes, so government funded clothing for all. And so and so on.

        Liberty at its very essence is the ability to make choices for yourself, whether good or bad. This is not liberty.

        • pacatrue

          Scha, I take your point that people choose to enter an LLC, but I disagree with your reply in a couple ways.

          1) You clearly shifted the focus away from the individual to government. I was presenting the argument that an individual who was the beneficiary of community-provided healthcare could be more free than someone who lacks health care.

          2) We’re having the same old debate that is hundreds if not thousands of years old about the nature of liberty. Is liberty freedom from imposition or the ability to accomplish one’s own will? If no one is stopping me from doing anything, but I cannot accomplish my will due to lack of resources, am I completely free? One can make up extreme cases to make the point. It was a common debate recently in Iraq where some Iraqis believed they were better off with more security restrictions on them that allowed them to stay safe than freedom from government to die at the hands of “insurgents”.

          • Schadenfreude_lives

            Well then, by your proposed definition, the old Soviet Union and Communist China under Mao are among the most free societies ever created, as they had guaranteed food, shelter, clothing, employment and health care.

            I think I will pass on any definition of freedom that leads to that conclusion.

  • Silhouette

    Hate to be the wet blankie on the parade but I haven’t heard a peep about the Public Option. So as far as I’m concerned, nothing meaningful happened today.

  • DLS

    Hi, Dubya Bee. Don’t worry; this legislation is movement toward the Public Compulsion, eventually.

  • DLS

    (Public Coersion, if you prefer.)

  • WagglebutII

    The sooner this country has a single non profit payer system the better we all will be. With technological advances and people living longer, health care reimbursement will no longer work as a for profit private enterprise. The very natures of health care and capitalism are antithetical. It has nothing to do with government largesse. Eventually the kinks will be worked out and the middle class in the country will rejoice.

  • Leonidas

    November

    • Axel Edgren

      Yeah, that’s the democrats’ own fault for not daring to make a case for something they knew they should have voted on gladly, or for not fighting to improve the bill much.

      It’s like this – democrats may have won a pyrrhic victory, but on a macro level the benefits the republicans derive from the democrats’ pyrrhic victory is just *another* pyrrhic victory.

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