According to MSNBC five of the six “fake” Democrats have been defeated in Wisconsin’s recall election primary. It was reported here two were defeated and four were in trouble earlier. Six Republicans have been forced to run in a recall election in the wake of what many deem excessive measures against public sector employees in that state. Should the recall be successful, Democrats would have more than enough seats to take back control of the state legislature. Beyond allegedly fake candidates in the Democratic primary, other dirty tricks including robo-calls directing registered Democratic voters to not vote due to absentee ballots being mailed directly to their residences have been alleged.

Three Democrats are also subject to recall however, fake candidates have not been alleged in those races to date.

The general recall elections are scheduled for August. A new Democratic majority is expected to roll back much of Governor Scott Walker’s anti-public sector employee legislation. Ironically, much of the anti-employee legislation was proposed to save money while each forced primary (since most of the Democrats were running unopposed in the primary, save the fake candidates) cost the state a purported $50,000.00 per primary.

D.R. Welch
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superdestroyer
Guest

Well the coming one party state. Hand over all of your money to the parasite class and let the nanny staters run unopposed.

I wonder what the private sector is thinking in Wisconsin when they face the prospect of the Democrats regaining total control and the public sector taking revenge on the private sector.

Don Quijote
Guest

I guess the subhuman state employees should work for free. Maybe we can bring back indentured servitude.

Done.

In Wisconsin, Prison Labor Replaces Unions

According to the Madison Capital Times, part of Gov. Walker’s bill strips unions of the right to claim certain work as a “union only” job. As a result inmates have been able to step in and fill what used to be good-wage jobs not for pay, but for time off of their sentences.

Racine County took advantage of this measure almost immediately, using inmates for landscaping, painting, and other basic maintenance around the county that had previously been done by county workers. Just last year the union had successfully sued to prevent the county from using prison labor in lieu of unionized county workers, but under Walker’s law the union no longer has the right to challenge the move.

superdestroyer
Guest

D.R. WELCH

The Union controlled democrats offered up some short term savings that would have been given back in the near future. Just like future spending cuts never really occur, there is no such thing as a permanent cut for the public sector.

As in most of Wisconsin, those areas outside of Madison, the best paying, most secure jobs are the government jobs. The public sector employees have become economically decoupled from the state’s economy. The public sector employees get pay, benefits, and job security not found in the private sector and are immune to ecomonic downturns.

The future is clear in Wisconsin and the only question should be why any private sector company would want to stay there. Look at California to see what happens to a state when the public sector unions call all of the political shots.

acolorado1
Guest

SD – are you really arguing that because private sector jobs are low paying and insecure that we need to get rid of government jobs which in your own words provide their community with secure and well-paying positions?

Now to say that public employee’s are immune to economic downturns is news to the thousands who have lost their jobs to cuts or had a pay freeze.

But it’s hard to argue with someone who has chosen to believe in a fantasy.

Absalon
Guest

“The public sector employees get pay, benefits, and job security not found in the private sector and are immune to ecomonic downturns.”

Typical envy. Rather than work for stronger private unions and better wages for all employees you can at least destroy those who dare to have it better than you, eh?

Zzzzz
Guest

Hand over all of your money to the parasite class and let the nanny staters run unopposed.

Really. People who do valuable work for a living are now the parasite class. What a load of pure putrid [email protected]

I define the parasite class a BIT differently. I define it as hedge fund managers that insert themselves between investors and productive enterprises so that they can either skim money or use legalized gambling to drive up costs and destabilize the economy. I would also label News Corp (parent of Fox News) as a parasite, as it uses off-shore shell companies to rip off tax payers.

LOGAN PENZA
Member

Since when are hedge fund managers being directly paid by taxes extracted by the government under threat of imprisonment?

I guess hedge fund managers qualify as a “parasite class” from an ideologically marxist, Pol Pot-style category, but that wasn’t really what we’re talking about here, I don’t think.

LOGAN PENZA
Member

Wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and make all private-sector unions give their workers the same level of benefits as public-sector workers without increasing unemployment by the resulting increase in per-worker costs?

Oh wait. There is that nasty thing called “reality” that stops us. Sad.

Zzzzz
Guest

Since when are hedge fund managers being directly paid by taxes extracted by the government under threat of imprisonment?

Are they being paid directly? No. Are they paying half the tax rates on their income that people who really do work for a living pay? Why, yes. Are they actually contributing to the economy? No. They are feeding off of it, and in the process, through speculative investments on commodities, destabilizing it. So, as far as I am concerned, they are neither producing a productive good nor a productive service. By a wide margin, government sanitation workers are more productive and useful that these wallstreet middle men.

And by the way, those taxes are your duty as a citizen, and something our government has the absolute, incontrovertable right to levy under our constitution. People who work for the government to provide services based on constitutional laws and appropriations ARE NOT PARASITES. You can argue about the utility of some programs, but I surely hope you are not saying all legislators and government workers (including soldiers) are parasites. That comes straight out of the crazy, rightwing anarchist playbook.

LOGAN PENZA
Member

DRW,

Maybe if public sector union leaders were more reasonable and responsive to fiscal realities when setting their demands, the backlash would not be quite as strong and the layoffs would be less severe.

When you demand excessive and unsustainable benefits packages under the assumption that boom times will last forever, however, I don’t have much sympathy when reality comes calling. My sympathy goes down even further when the unrealistic demands continue and/or escalate even AFTER reality comes calling. And that’s what happened in Wisconsin and many other places.

Try as you might, you can’t shield the fact that the unreasonable and short-sighted behavior of union leaders was PART of what contributed to the problems we now face in state and local budgets.

I am not signing on to the agenda that says ONLY unions are to blame, but I do think it must be conceded that they have HELPED create the problem of unsustainable state and local budgets and that they must be accountable for that PARTIAL contribution to the problem.

P.S. The practice of dismissively referring to literally every argument that someone disagrees with as a “talking point” is becoming tiresome, especially given the degree to which it is disproportionately applied around here ONLY to conservatives. Those who want respect for their own perspectives should grant a little more respect to others’ that to immediately dismiss them out-of-hand as mere “talking points”.

casualobserver
Member

 

 
Is 1993 far back enough for you? There is a breakdown by class and sector that also shows that public sector is compensated more for the same types of skill and education requirements. 
 
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1993/05/art2full.PDF

As to Wisconsin results, if the 30 plus percent that voted for the plug candidate were all crossover Rs, the results might be predictive. Then again, it might be predictive as well if any of that 30 plus was D or I, but not in the way you would like.

rudi
Member

CO Your link actually affirms almost all of what DRW said.

Many of the salary surveys conservatives quote neglect the fact that a very high percentage of public sector jobs require not only a college degree but, advanced technical degrees. The links Page 17 spells out why this is true. Even public service salaries are higher – cops, EMS and firemen are service, but highly trained and most college educated.

The private sector leaches off these services. Walmarts rentacops only fill space, they don’t enforce laws or cannot LEGALLY detain anyone.

SteveinCH
Guest

The debate over pay is irrelevant. The indication of whether someone is overcompensated has to do with whether they leave. The rate of voluntary departure of public service employees is substantially below that of private sector employees and has been for a very long time.

Thus, public sector workers are (relatively) overpaid.

Government workers quit at a third to a half the rate of private sector workers…they are better compensated period.

Are Catholic elementary school teachers underpaid? Well they are paid less but leave at a lower rate. By my definition, they aren’t underpaid because a higher percentage of them choose to stay for the pay they are given.

SteveinCH
Guest

DR,

Vesting is a choice that is part of the overall compensation package. And it doesn’t move the numbers the way you think it does. Let’s say I vest in 5 years and you vest in 10. All else equal, who is more likely to leave in year 4? I’d say that you are since I’ve only got to last a year to get to year 5. So from years 1 to 5 in this theoretical example, the person who vests in 5 is more likely to stay. From years 6 to 9, the person who vests in 10 is more likely to stay and from year 10 on it’s equal.

Net/net, the effect you describe exists but is small in magnitude and could in no way account for the differences seen in quit rates.

I appreciate your perspective but there are fewer methodological issues with the approach I describe than with the one you favor at least in my opinion.

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