Those Forked Tongue Democrats: Long Term Costs

Snake.jpgBack when I was young, Kris Kristofferson warned us all of the dangers of the silver tongued devil… the person who would come off as a charming fellow and say things you want to hear, then turn around and do you wrong. If you’ve been paying any attention at all to the running series of comments from both President Obama and Congressional Democrats on matters of spending, the deficit and the national debt, you should be getting an old, familiar feeling. It was only six months ago to the day, on Feb. 22, when Barack Obama proclaimed that he was going to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. And let’s be sure to recall that this was after TARP was already in play and Porkulous was under construction like a fully operational Death Star. The economy had begun to collapse the previous fall, so nobody could say it was coming as a surprise.

My, how things change in six months. (Hat tip: Hot Air)

Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration will raise its 10-year budget deficit projection to approximately $9 trillion from $7.108 trillion in a report next week, a senior administration official told Reuters on Friday.

The higher deficit figure, based on updated economic data, brings the White House budget office into line with outside estimates and gives further fuel to President Barack Obama’s opponents, who say his spending plans are too expensive in light of budget shortfalls.

Politically, the deficit has been an albatross for Obama, a Democrat who is pushing forward with plans to overhaul the U.S. healthcare industry — an initiative that could cost up to $1 trillion over 10 years — and other promises, including reforming education and how the country handles energy.

You’ll keep hearing more and more claims about how the Democrats’ proposed health care legislation will actually wind up saving money through the miracles of cutting waste, fraud, and abuse. (Oh yes, and eliminating the evil insurance companies.) But the CBO keeps on shooting those ideas down, saying that the Dem plan will not result in any savings and putting the price tag at close to one trillion. Not to mention that some analysts are convinced that the CBO is using an outdated model and the real cost of ObamaCare will come in at closer to two trillion.

And yet some supporters still protest loudly here, saying, “Oh, Jazz. Don’t you call us tax and spend Democrats. That’s an old myth and you can’t prove it.”

You’re right about one thing. So far all we’re really seeing is the spend side of that characterization, aside from some early hits on tobacco, alcohol and “luxury” items. The real taxes haven’t started yet. But don’t worry … you can trust Congress. They wouldn’t lie to you, would they? Hisssssssssssssssssssssss.

54 Comments

  1. Where have I heard this before?

    “For decades, we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children's future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals.

    You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we are not bound by that same limitation?”

    — From Ronald Reagan's first inaugural address

    Deficit under Carter $74 Billion in last year. Deficit under Reagan $155 Billion in last year.

  2. Is he spending the money on the wrong country? If the answer to that question is “no”, I think a little introspection and humility is expected from the majority of his critics.

    However, adding to the deficit simply is a problem even if it would be caused by an important decision. While fiscal responsibility and sustainability are words the GOP and the right have abandoned the right to brandish with any credibility, Obama has not made it easy for himself by claiming he doesn't want to add to the deficit with reform. That's one of the reasons he and his party are not having an easy time of it – there is no terrorist attack to allow the administration or congress to abandon reality and cut corners.

  3. We've gotten used to the cycle: Repbulican Presidents run up unfunded massive deficits and leave it to Democrats to raise taxes.

    If Democrats are “tax and spend,” I guess that makes Republicans “borrow and spend.”

  4. Thanks for reminding us of this! What the Democrats never counted upon (but what all good Conservative mothers remind their children of) is the fact that our lies always eventually catch up with us.

    There is an avalanche of karma that Obama will soon have to deal with. :D

  5. “(but what all good Conservative mothers remind their children of) is the fact that our lies always eventually catch up with us.”

    Then those conservative mothers elected Bush and proved to their children that, no, America isn't a meritocracy and you can get ahead by lying.

  6. “Deficit under Carter $74 Billion in last year. Deficit under Reagan $155 Billion in last year.”

    Two questions:

    1. What was the deficit in percentage of GDP IRT Carter v Reagan.
    2. Reagan brought on the collapse of the USSR and the end of the cold war. What has Obama given us to justify the 9 trillion dollar deficit?

  7. vey9 -

    If you check your Constitution, it's the House that draws up the budget, not the President. The House was Democratic during Reagan's two terms. Even though the tax cuts brought in record revenue, the Democratic House spent about $1.50 for each $1.00 brought in.

    So it was the Democrats, not Reagan.

  8. Can we all just admit that politicians from both sides have their own interests based on what lobbing group gives them the best deal. Most could care less about what “We The People” want. I am an x republican, now an independent and I am more concerned about using my future vote for candidates who believe in the Constitution. No matter what side of the argument these comments always seem to deteriorate into a well the other guys did/do this.

    I think the point is that politicians never get held accountable for what they say on the campaign trail and President Obama, so far has made a “lot” of promises that are 180 degrees from what he said while campaigning. And a lot of those issues have turned out to be extremely costly for this country. I wonder how many people would vote the same way knowing what they know now. And yes I know, well what about this one or that one. Right now Obama is the one I am worried about.

  9. “The cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on … If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we'd see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.” – Barack Obama, Speech in the U.S. Senate, March 13, 2006

    http://www.barackobama.com/issues/index_campaig

  10. “The cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on … If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we'd see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.” – Barack Obama, Speech in the U.S. Senate, March 13, 2006

    http://www.barackobama.com/issues/index_campaig

  11. Deficit under Carter $74 Billion in last year. Deficit under Reagan $155 Billion in last year.

    so after you deduct the deficit Reagan inherited, the deficit increased 81 billion-over eight years. Let's not forget that Reagan fought (and won) the cold war. He broke the Soviet Union's back. But that didn't come cheap. Now taken in the context that the money was spent eliminating the greatest singular threat to world peace, wasn't it worth it? It's not fair to compare the deficit left by the hapless Carter to that of Ronald Reagan in light of their respective accomplishments.

  12. To all the Repugs commenting here; where was your outrage when W and Delay pushed thru the Medicare Drug plan in the hopes of buying the senior vote?

  13. To all the Repugs commenting here; where was your outrage when W and Delay pushed thru the Medicare Drug plan in the hopes of buying the senior vote?

  14. More than Carter/Reagan this reminds me more of Bill Clinton, who campaigned on a platform of middle class tax cuts. In fact when asked in a debate what his first act as president would be, he responded he would enact a middle class tax cut.

    Of course when he got into office the story was different. After the election he announced things were worse than he thought and then it was “Silly me, did I say tax cut? Actually I have to raise taxes, sorry about that!”.

  15. I notice you ignored the jist of the gentlemans post. I can only assume you agree that we need a greater deficit and taxes to fund it as long as the programs you like are paid for. Also, if the GOP has lost credibility on spending, what does that say about the Democrats? They ran on fiscal responsibility and less spending during the 2006 midterms. If you are a fair minded person then I think you would agree that both parties are not to be trusted with the peoples labor.

  16. I notice you ignored the jist of the gentlemans post. I can only assume you agree that we need a greater deficit and taxes to fund it as long as the programs you like are paid for. Also, if the GOP has lost credibility on spending, what does that say about the Democrats? They ran on fiscal responsibility and less spending during the 2006 midterms. If you are a fair minded person then I think you would agree that both parties are not to be trusted with the peoples labor.

  17. “What has Obama given us to justify the 9 trillion dollar deficit?”

    He didn't. All of the deficit isn't Obama's, you know.

    “They ran on fiscal responsibility and less spending during the 2006 midterms.”

    When the party you compare yourself to spend very much on a stupid goal, then spending much on an important goal is still fiscally responsible. Fiscal responsibility doesn't mean never having a deficit or never raising taxes.

  18. Ok let's run with this Jazz. What's your solution to this problem? Is it pithy enough that you hid it somewhere in this post? If both the Democrats and Republicans have broken the public trust, what are…should I say CAN…you do about it?

  19. One picture says 1,000 words

  20. Kastanj: “Is he spending the money on the wrong country?”

    How about $2B for off-shore drilling in Brazil? With our economic problems and needs here at home, I believe that is extremely irresponsible. Esp. when Congress et al. will not agree to more drilling for oil domestically, and Obama prattled on during the campaign about the U.S. becoming “energy independent.” How will that happen if we have to buy oil from other countries, instead of drilling into our own supplies?

    No matter how much Obama or anyone else wants to wean us off oil, it's not going to happen very quickly, if ever. Here in the Northeast (and other parts of the country, I'm sure), too many people rely on fuel oil to heat their homes. They either get oil (at a price they can afford) or they freeze — well, that's one way to reduce the population. Gasoline — how many areas really have good mass transit? Some of the large cities, like New York City, Wash. D.C., and probably others. But far more cities do NOT, and that's before we start talking about the rural areas. If we can't get gasoline, or the price goes too high for lower-income families, what then?

    I realize this is a little off the topic of the budget deficit, but IMO it all fits together. Esp. when our illustrious “leader” is giving/lending money to Brazil, Hamas, and whatever other countries. Stop the spending to foreign countries, and we'll have a little less on the deficit!

  21. Nevermind that most of the deficit comes from the Bush tax cuts, the Bush wars, the Bush Medicare Part D and the economic meltdown (which was a combination of Clinton and Bush policies).

    But no. It's all the Obama's fault.

  22. “To all the Repugs commenting here; where was your outrage when W and Delay pushed thru the Medicare Drug plan in the hopes of buying the senior vote?”

    Our outrage was expressed on our talk shows, on the editorial pages of papers like the WSJ, and in conservative magazines like National Review. You just weren't paying attention. If it hadn't been for that outrage, there's no way the Democrats could have taken back Congress.

    The deficit was heading downward at the end of Reagan's 2nd term, and upward at the end of Carter's. Also, it was heading downward throughout Bush's 2nd term until the Democrats took back Congress.

    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_g

    Try to not ignore all the facts.

  23. Most of the deficit comes from the Public wanting to be tucked in at night by the Federal Government and given milk and cookies and promises that everything will be alright, just go to sleep.

  24. Nevermind that most of the deficit comes from the Bush tax cuts, the Bush wars, the Bush Medicare Part D and the economic meltdown (which was a combination of Clinton and Bush policies).

    But no. It's all the Obama's fault.

    When your house is already on fire it's not a good time to pour gasoline on it.

  25. Speaking of Fork Tongued Democrats….

  26. Burt what was the deficit as a percentage of gdp at the end of carter's disaserous four years versus the end of reagan's second term? just asking.

  27. Obama is the worlds greatest LIAR ever. He can stand straight faced, and lie on and on and on about deficit neutral Universal health care, when he knows they're taken $250 billion off the table, because they already knew about it?? WTF does sthat mean?? Liberals, don't you have any answers to anything,when your partys grown the deficit from $588 billion, to $1.6 trillion, in 6 months? Bush's fault?? IDIOTIC. It's Nancy, Reid, and Obama writing the checks kids, not Bush. Obamas caught in a new lie everyday, and all you idiots can say is, BUSH'S FAULT, BUSH'S FAULT?? How long are you going to repeat that?? 3 1/2 more years, until people come to their senses, and remember, the guy controlling your life, determining your success, should be the person in the mirror, not the one in DC?

    Imagine that, another lie??
    Fact Check just busted Obama for lying about the abortion side of the healthcare debate.
    http://factcheck.org/2009/08/abortion-which-sid

  28. It's no surprise. What happened under Reagan, revenues going up but the Demmies in Congress spending $1.43 or something like that?

    This year Obama and his Congre-Dems have dwarfed what the Republicans under Bush did.

    It's not surprising, though the exploitable and collaborationists will still “defend” and “justify” [rolling eyes] the misspending and other misconduct this year.

    All that remains is the return of the libs' and Dems' “ignore the deficit scare” and “deficit myth” nonsense.

    “Speaking of Fork Tongued Democrats….”

    And all that is needed here is to add the name of the Democrat of the Moment who has lied this time.

  29. “When your house is already on fire it's not a good time to pour gasoline on it.”

    They insist more gasoline is needed. More gasoline, NOW!

  30. “what does that say about the Democrats? They ran on fiscal responsibility and less spending during the 2006 midterms”

    P.T. Barnum remains correct, when it comes to these Demmies. There's a sucker born every minute.

    (Also, buying votes continues to be rewarding so long as there are those whose votes are easily bought.)

  31. “Bush's fault?? IDIOTIC.”

    Presumably there are idiots who believe this. It also helps manipulate the opinion of the manipulable, too, as a handy diversion from another Dem failure (dwarfing what Bush did wrong) and which raises concerns among better people yet again about the Dems' health care effort (not only costs but issue of character).

  32. Or health care. Milk and cookies… or health care. Equivalent of course.

  33. Dangerd, because Reagan destroyed the Soviet Union all within 6 months!

    Obama is trying to give us: 1) a revived economy, 2) not destroying ourselves through environmental destruction over time, and 3) a health care system that doesn't pay more for less care than 30 other national systems.

    Maybe you do not care about the environment, the economy, or health care, but many do.

  34. Yes, dipwad, it's all Barry's fault. Barry said he would cut the deficit in half. What happened before is irrelevant. Once again D'ohbama has proven to be a liar. Deal with it.

  35. The very transparency this president proclaimed to create will be the primary thorn in his side during his presidency. It is his lack thereof that has hurt this country most. He promised to be different, but instead he has reduced the trust that Americans have in Washington and made evident, the contempt that Washington has for average American folks. Yeah, I said “folks”.

  36. Rudi stfu with your faux outrage if bush and delay hadn't put through medicare you would have accused them of wanting old people to die but when they did they bought off the old folks vote they are damned if they od and damned if they don't with twerps of your ilk

  37. Rudi,
    Thanks for admitting that Obama is atleast as worse as Tom Delay and George W Bush , unintentional as it may be. And i am sure that the Democrats in Congress VIGOROUSLY OPPOSED the Medicare Drug plan in hopes of sacrificing the senior vote on behalf of “principles.”

    By the way do those principles include trying to buy the senior votes with Ponzi schemes like Medicare and Social Security.?

    George W Bush and the thug Delay made sure that there was no real discernible difference between DemocRATS and Gopeeeers when it came to fiscal policy – that is not a badge of honor or a shield to be used against attacks from conservatives on Obama ballooining the deficit more in his first 6 months what Bush did in the last 6 years.

  38. <o>When your house is already on fire it's not a good time to pour gasoline on it.

    Maybe so, but if you (non-specific “you”) are one of the people who set the house on fire, or if you supported and cheered on the people who set the fire, or if you knew the house was being set on fire and acted like it wasn't happening, or if you have spent zero time acknowledging that the fire burning down the house was set by somebody else, then you lack the credibility to say that the firefighters are doing their job wrong.

    Jusy sayin', you know?

  39. Let me see: Hamas 100 million, foreign aid DOUBLED, International Monetary Fund 108 billion, offshore drilling (Brazil) 2 billion loan, cash for clunkers to buy Toyatas and Hondas – what country is the “wrong” country?

  40. Freedom writer,

    While I'm generally on the Conservative side of the line, I do not have a problem with the loan to Brazil. Two reasons.

    1. Its an investment and may well show a good return

    2. It provides more oil on the market and cuts into the power of middle eastern oil producers and othat of Hugo Chavez.

    What I do find fault with is foot dragging and resostance to US off shore drilling, but that does not make the Brazil deal a bad one.

  41. @ Kathy

    ” Maybe so, but if you (non-specific “you”) are one of the people who set the house on fire, or if you supported and cheered on the people who set the fire, or if you knew the house was being set on fire and acted like it wasn't happening, or if you have spent zero time acknowledging that the fire burning down the house was set by somebody else, then you lack the credibility to say that the firefighters are doing their job wrong.”

    Well said, and many Republican's such as myself were outraged at some of the Spending the GOP carried out when in power. We didn't want Republicans who acted like democrats. Those who claim to be fiscal conservatives who turned a blind eye deserve all the derrision they get, and are no better than that idiot Paul Krugman who was against deficits when the GOP was in power and now is in favor of them to achieve a liberal wish list from decades past in a time of economic hardship.

  42. It's no surprise. What happened under Reagan, revenues going up but the Demmies in Congress spending $1.43 or something like that?

    Congress actually approved less spending than Reagan proposed. Reagan slashed taxes and sharply increased spending, mostly on the military. He operated under tooth fairy economics. Still, these conservatives will take no responsibility for any of the national debt. It was all somebody else's fault.

    Bush left a $1.2 trillion deficit, a crashing economy teetering on the brink of depression and two wars in progress. NIce job. HIs tax cuts also wiped out the budget surpluses left to him by Clinton and helped create huge deficits. Nice job.

    Now all the folks who voted for Bush twice are just horrified at deficit spending and the guy who trounced them, Obama, is to blame for all of it. Even as Wall Street, which is based on expectations of the future, soars by 50% and the economic news continues to improve they stand around screaming about how terrible everything is and how great the Republicans were. We've seen what happens when your guy wins. You should apologize and slink away in shame.

  43. Both Bush and Obama have been grossly irresponsible in the spending category. Watching people point fingers back and forth on this and blaming only one side is comical. Bush was an idiot for spending like this, Obama is now a bigger idiot for spending even more, but they are both still idiots.

  44. Do you believe the Constitution is the rule of law? Do you believe in the original intent of our founding fathers? Do you want to reform Congress? If your answer is yes, we have to work together to make this happen.

    http://animal-farm.us/change/constitution-proje

  45. Jazz has been defended by many as not being a doctrinaire conservative. However, on this subject he has shown over and over again that this is precisely what he is. His deep hatred of the current administration and Democrats in general is on full display. He says that given the economy this shouldn't have been a surprise. Really? Economic statistics are always being revised. Projections are too. In the Reuters article he links to there is this passage:

    “The new forecasts are based on new data that reflect how severe the economic downturn was in the late fall of last year and the winter of this year,” said the administration official, who is familiar with the budget mid-session review that is slated to be released next week.

    “Our budget projections are now in line with the spring and summer projections that the Congressional Budget Office put out.”

    The White House budget office will also lower its deficit forecast for this fiscal year, which ends September 30, to $1.58 trillion from $1.84 trillion next week after removing $250 billion set aside for bank bailouts.

    Oooh, how evil. Speaking of evil, Jazz does love to make fun of anyone who criticizes those corporate saints, the American health insurance companies. Somehow he never addresses what makes so many people resentful and mistrustful of them. Do I need to write out the list? I think everyone but Jazz knows the reasons quite well. As far as his citation of Elmendorf's testimony to Congress is concerned, not everyone sees things the same way Elmendorf's testimony seemed to go. Disagreements can be found here, at the OMB (Which is currently headed by a former head of the CBO.) and in this column in Roll Call. And then there is what Elmendorf himself wrote later in the Director's Blog. Here's a significant admission (emphasis mine):

    CBO does not analyze national health expenditures (NHE) as closely as we analyze the federal budget (although we are working to enhance our capabilities in this area). Accordingly, we cannot provide precise quantitative estimates of the effect of health reform proposals on NHE even within the first 10 years. However, we will try to offer a qualitative indication of whether proposals would be more likely to raise or lower NHE during the next couple of decades. Expanding insurance coverage would raise NHE, because insured people generally receive more medical care than do uninsured people (see CBO’s Key Issues in Analyzing Major Health Insurance Proposals, December 2008, pages 71-76). Yet, the increase in NHE would be much smaller than the increase in federal spending because some of that additional spending represents a shift in costs from other payers to the government (for example, new subsidies for people who would have purchased insurance anyway). At the same time, changes in Medicare or Medicaid that reduce federal spending and do not merely shift health costs to other payers would generally reduce NHE. For specific pieces of legislation, we will try our best to provide a very approximate sense of balance between these two opposing forces.

    In sum, as health reform legislation is considered by the Congress, CBO will endeavor to offer a qualitative indication of whether certain legislation would be more likely to increase or decrease the federal budgetary commitment to health care, the federal budget deficit, and national health expenditures in the decade beyond the 10-year budget window. Whether these effects would persist in more-distant decades is not clear, and that uncertainty is an inherent feature of policy changes that could have substantial effects on such a large and growing share of the U.S. economy.

    It seems that much as climate change deniers do, some on the right insist on using uncertain estimates of things to attempt to prove their points and completely ignore any changes or follow ups in the the interim that either disprove their claims or at least weaken them in other areas, like in health care.

  46. Because when dealing with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and two foreign wars he really should be able to do EVERYTHING he promised in under 8 months.

  47. @ Jim Satterfield,

    When I see a moderate post from you I'll consider taking any labels you try to give others some credence, thus far I haven't.

  48. @obarmadopeandstrange
    Try using only capitals on your next rant. Loved the non use of punctuation…
    ;-P

  49. Leonidas

    I agree, all the politicians suck. Don't any of you people realize this is exactly what both sides want. My sides got one bigger than yours. And while we are doing all this fighting over the past they slip little bills through and half of us, or more don't even know about them. No matter what side you are on saying the other side in the past did this or that is no defense, period. If you accidentally backed out of your driveway and ran over my child and killed him then I guess it would be OK for me to wait for your kid and run him over. Thats what you all are saying when you defend which idiot was/is the biggest one. If you don't start having real, civil, thoughtful conversations with each other, (without politicians) we are all going to wake up in a place that none of us may like a whole lot. Think about it!! Find out what your neighbors think. No, not them, the neighbors from that other party.

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