Men’s Rights “Hate Speech”

The following poster is being placed prominently in multiple cities in Canada, starting in Vancouver but also elsewhere. Similar posters with similar messages are beginning to appear in Seattle and other parts of the United States, as well as Australia and the UK. In every place so far that they’ve gone up, they’ve faced ridicule, mocking, and, worst of all, received regular vandalism and torn down in locations where it’s perfectly legal to place and display them. They have been classified by people who call themselves “feminists” as “hate-speech.”

Click to enlarge

The statistics from these posters are from the Canadian government and apply to Canada nationwide; statistics for the US, Australia, and other advanced Western nations are very similar, however. The poster reads:

40% of domestic violence victims are male

94% of all industrial deaths and accidents happen to men

42% of Bachelor’s Degrees are earned by men

90% of divorces are initiated by women

30% of those named as fathers who test for paternity find they are not the biological father

85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes

Government funding for Prostate Cancer is 60% less than the amount for breast cancer despite diagnosis rates being idential.

80% of all suicides are men.

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes.

76% of homicide victims are men

97% of combat deaths and casualties since the 1st Gulf War have been men

90% of the homeless are men

90% of all homeless children are from fatherless homes

85% of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes

Fathers receive primary custody of their children less than 10% of the time.

Had enough of this yet?

Those are Canadian government statistics, but they are very similar in the United States. Furthermore, the domestic violence and general violence victim rate for men is almost certainly higher than the numbers given, since virtually all sources agree that male victims and female perpetrators are under-reported in a wide variety of violent crimes, including domestic violence and sexual assault.

In case you’re having trouble reading that, click the image to enlarge it. Or if you would like a full-size PDF of it, suitable for printing out and posting yourself, you can find it here, and may find similarly useful posters in PDF form here and here. Just be sure that if you do print and post any of these, that you are fully in compliance with the laws in your area and have the consent of any property owners.

For the record, I find conservative traditionalists to be somewhat better than radical feminists on these issues–but only by a tiny, miniscule amount, since the usual “conservative” response to these things is to say nice things about “Traditional manhood” but otherwise the same as the radical feminist response: “man up,” “suck it up,” or “men need to get their act together.” To which a growing number of men, young men in particular, are starting to lift a middle finger.

We aren’t going to accept your definition of “manning up.” We are not going to accept a “blame the victim” mentality thrown at us. We aren’t going to go away, we are not going to let you divide us by race, and we are not going to shut up. These statistics are just the tip of the iceberg, for there’s more, far more to look at and far more to be done.

If someone can tell me which of the major Presidential campaigns in America plans to do anything about any of the above, I’d like to hear it. So far as I can see, Barack Obama has nothing to say about any of it, and neither does Mitt Romney.

Further mainstream news coverage of the postering campaign and active censorship efforts against them here. Further discussion of these issues, as well as censorship efforts against them, here.

Why do I write about these things? Because I have sons I love, growing up in a world that is increasingly contemptous and dismissive of them.

Author: DEAN ESMAY, Guest Voice Columnist

Dean Esmay is a long-time associate of Joe Gandelman and The Moderate Voice. He is Managing Editor of A Voice for Men. He also blogs on a variety of issues at Dean's World, one of the world's first blogs and one of the few that was archived as Historically Significant by the Library of Congress for the 2004 elections. You can also follow Dean via Twitter here.

45 Comments

  1. and, worst of all, received regular vandalism and torn down

    The obvious question that comes to mind: What percentage of the vandalism is taking place at the hands of men and what percentage is at the hands of women? No answer to this of course – and I know it strays from the point of the post, but I wonder just the same.

  2. 40% of domestic violence victims are male
    Significant

    94% of all industrial deaths and accidents happen to men
    not relevant

    42% of Bachelor’s Degrees are earned by men
    so?

    90% of Divorces are initiated by women
    so?

    30% of those named as fathers who test for paternity find they are not the biological father
    relevant, but not a surprise.

    85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes
    ok, fatherless or single parent? what about two women raising a child?

    Government funding for Prostate Cancer is 60% less than the amount for breast cancer despite diagnosis rates being idential.
    breast cancer has better advocates

    80% of all suicides are men.
    ok

    63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes.
    again… what about lesbian parents? having two parents is probably better than 1, whether or not it needs to be a man is debatable.

    76% of homicide victims are men
    not shocking.

    97% of combat deaths and casualties since the 1st Gulf War have been men
    again… not relevant

    Fathers receive primary custody of their children less than 10% of the time.
    this is a problem and I understand your concern

  3. Zephyr: It is unclear at the time, although a recently-photoducmented incident of it happening showed that it was primarily a group of young self-identified “feminist men” accompanied by women. Video report here, transcript forthcoming:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ature=plcp

    ShannonLee:

    94% work-related deaths for men is relevant in a society which claims men are “privileged” and where any discrimination faced by females is automatically given priority in the news and in government policy.

    42% of bachelor’s degrees earned by men: Matters because the vast majority of High School and College dropouts are men, women are now the majority, and a continually growing majority, of college graduates, which the government considers greater “equality” even as boys and young men lag further and further and further behind girls and young women and as the government institutes still MORE programs to give preferential enrollment status to women.

    90% of all divorces initiated by women: in a society where we are constantly told men “won’t commit” or “fear commitment,” and in a society where divorced men routinely lose their custody and a huge chunk of their income to the woman who left them, this is quite significant. (NB: I note the usual response to this is to say that men are just bums, abusers, etc. and that’s why women divorce them; no other reason is generally entertained.)

    63% of youth suicides, fatherless homes, and lesbians: If I had to guess, two lesbian parents is probably better than one single parent, although I couldn’t say. I struggle to see the relevance to the general population, but certainly it deserves careful study.

    97% of combat deaths being male “not relevant”: how you don’t think that’s an outrageously sexist statement I have no idea. Are males merely disposable utilities? Not to put words in your mouth, but this appears to be the widespread cultural assumption. Men routinely die on the job and die in wars at a rate almost 9:1 men-women, and you consider that “irrelevant?” Just how little respect do you have for the lives of the men in your life, honestly?

  4. They have been classified by people who call themselves “feminists” as “hate-speech.”

    Who? As in, which ones? I mean, giving a bunch of statistics is certainly not “hate-speech”. It is, again (as with all your MRA articles), patently ridiculous to blame these stats on feminists, or to act like feminists aren’t working to help many of these causes. Perhaps it’s MRAs out there working with the feminists to get women ability to serve in all jobs on the military? Oh, they’re not? Maybe it’s MRAs trying to make it so that women can hold a larger number of industrial jobs? No? Maybe MRAs work with the suicide prevention groups or prisoners rights groups and anti-poverty groups that progressives of many stripes — including feminists — dedicate their time to? Not so much?

    And connecting a stat on who initiates divorce (90% seems really high to me, but maybe that’s just Canada) with the idea of “fatherless households” and their affects on kids is pretty unbelievable, considering the fact that most kids who end up in prison or homeless have no fathers because their fathers left. No divorce can be requested if dad refuses to stay with mom in the first place.

    The leaps in logic implied here are baffling. Stats — fine. Let’s let women have jobs usually only allowed to men, let’s work hard on suicide prevention and prison reform, let’s give every woman who wants it birth control so that we can slow the single mother statistics. Let’s curb how we as a society teach violence to our men and boys, and curb the poverty that means that young men, particularly poor young men, have options other than crime and violence.

    But this?

    We aren’t going to accept your definition of “manning up.”

    ? Seriously, the phrase “man up” is one of my least favorite expressions out there, along with the idea of “having balls”. Don’t put that crap on feminists. It didn’t come from us, we fight against it all the time. Wherever you got this idea that the meanie feminists have the same stupid idea of traditional masculinity that you seem to resent is beyond me.

  5. So, it looks like 90% is high — about 2 of 3 divorces are initiated by women. Of course, another stat I found while looking to confirm or refute the 90% number above was that, upon marriage, the average woman’s standard of living drops by 27%, while the average man’s rises by 10%. Maybe a little insight into why the initial statistic exists.

  6. in a society where divorced men routinely lose their custody and a huge chunk of their income to the woman who left them

    I’d like to throw out there that the “huge chunk of their income” is because men usually make significantly more than women, despite all your stats about how women are earning more degrees, etc. Er, also something (in case you missed it), that feminists are working on. It should be noted that when women make more than their husbands, a divorce generally ends up in a huge chunk of her income going to him.

  7. I basically agree with Roro on this one.

  8. The figures given were for Canada, not the United States. The number for the United States, last I checked, is indeed around 2/3rds.

    I have already provided a link documented the self-described “feminists” who claimed this is hate-speech, I specifically called them “radical feminists,” and you may follow the link or not as you wish.

    The notion that most children grow up in fatherless homes because the fathers “left” needs to be supported by references; that should be jibed somehow with the reality that women file most divorces, and with the fact that in this country single motherhood is a choice not an obligation. And with the fact that women enjoy rights to reproductive freedom that men do not.

    I rather suspect that the statistic that men’s standards of living go up after divorce is outdated; it certainly does not match my experience nor the experience of countless men I know. And it would have to be jibed somehow with the reality of the 90% homeless population and the large number of men in debtor’s prison who cannot (I did not say “would not,” I said “can not”) afford the support payments the state demands. This is the only area where I am aware that debtor’s prison is still even legal in this country.

    Since I did not put anything on “femnists” as a group, I see no reason why I should defend the notion that I did. My comments and my references speak for themselves; I said “radical feminists” and I further noted that I see nothing meaningfully better about conservative traditionalists.

    More references are available to anyone who would like to request them without putting words in my mouth.

    (And I apologize if my question to Shannon above was a little inflammatory, but I have to ask: if there was a 9:1 workplace injury and death rate to women rather than men, do you think I’d be off-based to assume this would be viewed as a huge crisis the nation needed to address immediately?)

  9. “It is patently ridiculous to blame these stats on feminists, or to act like feminists aren’t working to help many of these causes.”

    But feminists worked to make divorce much easier, and told women that divorce would work out fine because children don’t need a father. This leads to children growing up without a father’s influence and being more likely to commit crime, abuse drugs, or attempt suicide. A man in America is 3 times as likely as a woman to be a victim of a violent crime, yet feminists push for a Violence Against Women Act. Feminists complain all the time about the “pay gap” and fight to remove it yet never talk about the “death at work gap”. And on and on and on.

    When was the last time you heard a feminist say “instead of campaigning to restrict men marrying women from other countries, let’s work to eliminate Selective Service?” or “why don’t we fight to make workplaces safer instead of creating websites to complain about being whistled at on the street?” I sure haven’t.

    The “best” feminists offer regarding the problems in the poster is “more feminism will solve these problems”. But feminism hasn’t done men any good so far, so we aren’t going to hold our breath that more feminism will help.

  10. “Er, also something (in case you missed it), that feminists are working on. ”

    Yes, feminists are definitely working on getting women more pay, but not so much on making divorce settlements more reasonable.

  11. “upon marriage, the average woman’s standard of living drops by 27%, while the average man’s rises by 10%”

    With all due respect, that defies belief. There was a book called “The Divorce Revolution” which stated that after a divorce a man’s standard of living rises by 10% but the wife’s drops by 27%; of course, that book is based on a 35-year-old survey of only 228 people in one city (Los Angeles).

  12. “94% work-related deaths for men is relevant in a society which claims men are “privileged” and where any discrimination faced by females is automatically given priority in the news and in government policy.”

    No no no, those numbers prove absolutely nothing when it comes to privilege. Men mostly do those jobs because the have the genetic advantage of strength and they have kept women out of those jobs…even though that is slowly changing. Women with the same education are secretaries or retailers. One job is significantly more dangerous than the other.

    So now we are at 2/3s and that still is not relevant.

    Combat deaths??? How many women were in on the raid to kill OBL? What percentage are on any special forces team? Come on, you need to look behind the numbers a little bit more.

    I hear you and understand what you are trying to do, but imho, you are grasping a straws to make a case that can simply be made with your last stat. You will convince more people that there is a problem with you come at them with real facts…. not stuff that can be easily argued away.

  13. “Men mostly do those jobs because the have the genetic advantage of strength and they have kept women out of those jobs”

    Is there nothing that can be done to make those jobs safer? Maybe we should take the money spent on the VAWA and use it to make coal-mining or commercial fishing safer. I think that would be a better use of it.

    You sure sound like you simply don’t care about men dying at work. “Men are just stronger” is certainly a blase way of waving off tens of thousands of deaths a year. What if I said “women are murdered because they are weaker than men, there’s nothing we can do about it, who cares about murdered women?” Would you stand for that?

  14. Yeah, well, when I see a lady working the deck on The Deadliest Catch, I will take that argument into more consideration…and even then… one lady out of hundreds…
    Walking on steel beams is dangerous. Changing out lights in antenna towers is dangerous. Even building a 2 story home is more dangerous than working at Macy’s.

    When those jobs are split 50 50 and considerably more men are still falling to their deaths…then we have a sexism problem… and it will most likely be because men are not using the safety equipment they are required to use.

  15. When was the last time you heard a feminist say “instead of campaigning to restrict men marrying women from other countries, let’s work to eliminate Selective Service?” or “why don’t we fight to make workplaces safer instead of creating websites to complain about being whistled at on the street?” I sure haven’t.

    Then you are not paying attention. See, feminists think we can talk about and work for changes in workplace safety (BIG defenders of unions, feminists are), equality in military service, and at the same time work on sex trafficking and the constant microagressions that make millions of women feel unsafe in public places. I know this might seem like a stretch to the more small-minded, but people are actually capable of caring about more than one thing at a time. And pretending like the issues you site as things that feminists do work on are trivial — sex trafficking and the public safety and harassment of women — is pretty telling about your personal motives.

  16. feminists worked to make divorce much easier

    Yep. Sorry, but if one of the parties in a marriage does not want to be in that marriage, they should be able to get a divorce. We can argue about terms, but legally shackling together two people who do not want to be together is not my idea of marriage.

  17. “94% work-related deaths for men is relevant in a society which claims men are “privileged” and where any discrimination faced by females is automatically given priority in the news and in government policy.”
    No no no, those numbers prove absolutely nothing when it comes to privilege. Men mostly do those jobs because the have the genetic advantage of strength and they have kept women out of those jobs…even though that is slowly changing. Women with the same education are secretaries or retailers. One job is significantly more dangerous than the other.

    It is true that the number implies a simple “they don’t care if men die” when the reality is more complex. But I think that is the point. Many have pointed at things like the wage gap which implies that if you are women, they write you a smaller check when the reality is more complex. Many who claim one will try and dismiss the other, and you can’t have it both ways.

  18. “and it will most likely be because men are not using the safety equipment they are required to use”

    That’s absurd.

    It seems you just don’t care about men. They are disposable to you, like napkins.

  19. I have already provided a link documented the self-described “feminists” who claimed this is hate-speech

    I see 3 poster PDFs, a link to an article about a poster that is different (and much more incediary) than the one you posted here, and 2 GWW youtubes. Where are the feminists who call this hate speech?

  20. ShannonLeee If you believe that these stats are because women are not allowed to work in dangerous jobs. Then I challenge you to find two hundred women who are willing to leave the warmth of their homes and family and friends to spend several months on a deep sea fishing vessel. In dangerous conditions, then I will acknowledge your point!

  21. Then I challenge you to find two hundred women who are willing to leave the warmth of their homes and family and friends to spend several months on a deep sea fishing vessel.

    Holy cow. Good lord, you’d think that it was women who made the men go take those jobs, instead of it being that they pay a helluva lot better than the jobs relegated to women of similar education level. Men have the same option to clean up bedbans and sweep floors and clean rich people’s houses, but they choose to do the more dangerous jobs because they pay better. Most women don’t have that option, so they do the still strenuous but not as strength-based jobs. And yes, of course the real work here is to make sure that labor laws are made and enforced in such a manner that death at work is not considered acceptable to employers, that all safety precautions are strictly held-to, that job safety training is mandatory for all workers to whom it might be necessary.

  22. Maybe we should take the money spent on the VAWA and use it to make coal-mining or commercial fishing safer.

    OMG of course coal mining and commercial fishing should be made safer! Union busting, lax regulation, the inability of our leaders to grow a backbone on issues that concern their donors, and absolute disregard for safety by mining companies and fishing companies holds firm blame for this. Is lax laws on domestic violence going to help coal miner safety? Will a coal miner who is allowed to smack around his wife do a better job at standing up to his boss about unsafe work conditions? Good lord, this is ridiculous. And offensive.

  23. There was a book called “The Divorce Revolution”

    The place I had read the stat initially incorrectly had it indicated as a post-wedding statistic, but upon further review, you are correct that the stat was post-divorce, not post-wedding.

  24. Many have pointed at things like the wage gap which implies that if you are women, they write you a smaller check when the reality is more complex.

    Not really. In the 77c/$ figure, things like hours worked and time off and different career choices are taken into account. But the pay gap taking all these things into acocunt still exists, although it is less than 77c/$. Surely you’ve looked at Lilly Ledbetter’s particular case? And if a company is legally allowed to discriminate by paying women less, which in that case was found to be so, then why wouldn’t a big company do so?

    In any case, the argument about physical labor doesn’t apply in the same way to well-paying highly skilled labor as it does to lower earning jobs.

  25. Until these 4 x mo. rants about how ‘Poor Men’ are being mistreated by ‘Evil Women’ I lived in a fantasy world where the women in my life and I really liked one another… we like who we are… and, we like how we relate to one another.

    After reading these ‘Poor me… I’m an abused man’ rants I feel the same way. Though now I realize there are some having a real time trying to adjust to modern society. I hope that they are able to get some help.

  26. Yikes, it got awful trollie around here.
    My cousin would. She also works wildfires and is a paramedic.

    And yes… I’m a dude.

  27. you can stop personalizing everything and making emotion arguments for yourself

    Hahaha! …..and my comment was actually for Peterman, not you, about a comment made to Shannon, a man. The hysterical roro lady will stop making such wildly emotional comments such as “but hey”. Or, you know, not.

  28. ” Hell is oneself, Hell is alone, the other figures in it merely projections.”
    T.S. Eliot

    Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.

    Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.

    An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure. The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and by redirecting libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or “projecting,” those same faults onto another person or object.

    Sexual wounding is a very deep wound….for both women and men …Often times it requires one to remove the scab that covers the deep infected wound…It is often painful and definitely not a pretty process…But for those that have the courage to heal that healing can bring great depth, strength, sensitivity, and tenacity of being…

    Dean i fully agree, we need more education and support for fathering… not only external fathering in men fathering children but internalized fathering…A great many of our social, political, and individual issues are crying out for greater fathering for men and women…As important as it is to internalize mothering that is how important it is to internalize fathering on the way to becoming an adult.

    What did you learn from fathering and what would you want fathers to teach their children? What is a good father? How is fathering internalized?

  29. it seems to bounce all over the place.

    If I’ve not been clear, by all means let me know where and I’d be happy to give clarification. And I suppose I’m glad I’m entertaining? Not really why I’m here though…being so emotional and stuff what with my ladybits and all that bidniz has evidently made me personalize issues that personally affect me (horrors!), which seems to be seen as a problem by others on this board.

  30. Dean I find no difficulty in considering the message these posters imbue. That they would be torn down is emblematic of the soft violence of contempt that many men face in their lives. It is no less a process of silencing followed by an accusation of stoic emotional insensitivity for not speaking up. It is the hypocrisy of our culture that will damn you if you do and damn you if you don’t. It is for men a culture that gives little and takes much and tells you it is a privilege.

  31. Hi there all: IF youre new here, read the commenters rules. No attacking other commenters, trying to ‘read their minds’ (no one can), no attacking writers. Read the rules and abide and all will be well. Stick to the topic of the post, and not each other, or what you think of others’ ways of presenting their facts, opinions or teachings, and all will be well. We reserve the right by the fact that you register here, to edit or delete comments that are not in keeping with the house rules for civility.

    Thanks,
    archangel/ dr.e

    Also “oooooooooogh” suggest you shorten your screen-name otherwise likely to get hung up in spam. Most here use their real names or their first names or initials. Spam filter more easily seems to recognize actual names. Up to you.
    thanks,
    archangel/ dr.e

  32. and it will most likely be because men are not using the safety equipment they are required to use

    Shannon — I do want to point out that, unless it a man working for himself, safety incidents, particularly those that end in death, are very often the result of extremely unsafe work conditions, insufficient safety or hazard communication training, and overall blasé attention by management toward the issues of safety. This is because it’s expensive to do correctly, and regulations favor profits over the safety of the worker. In all the factories I’ve audited (maybe 40 now, from high-tech to heavy industrial), every single safety hazard I saw was due to a lack on the part of management rather than simply a lack on the part of the worker. For those companies where safety is treated as a priority, workers who either refuse to comply or are incapable of complying to safety policies are quickly recognized and removed from the situation.

  33. @ ordinarysparrow

    your comment on projection is very insightful,sensitive and well stated. Would you mind if I quoted your comment?

  34. 80% of all suicides are men.

    With the rest of the statistics, I can see why! :)

  35. I think we can all agree that there are some men who beat up on women and some women who beat up on men. Given that men are more likely to work in dangerous situations, i.e. truck driving, factories, military, etc., I am not surprised that men have the higher percentage of workplace deaths.

    I think there are both men and women (as has been noted) who, for various reasons, do not report crimes against themselves. I think the growing awareness and education among women is great and allows them to report crimes and seek help. I think it’s important for men to be educated on violence perpetrated against them for the same reasons I support programs for women.

    At the end of the day, violence does not discriminate.

    I’d like to believe that everyone would like to see a better and safer world for everyone. If it means programs aimed at educating women, then fine. If it meansprograms aimed at educating men, then fine. If it means educating men and women in the same program, that’s fine too.

  36. I hear you dr.e. yet i would not know how to read a book, a poem, a post without first hearing where the content is coming from, so how can that be separated when it so often speaks louder than the content? Dr.e, it is not okay to speak of that?

    Keith you are welcome… most of us project when we get into highly charged topics that pit one against another…

    I so know that just like a bird that needs two wings to fly, men need women and women need men…I am in the and both camp without need to bash either sex…

  37. @ ordinarysparrow

    my earlier comment referred to our culture. I have linked a thoughtful youtube clip 3-4 minutes in length. I thought you may enjoy it’s context. Thank you for your response. I found your initial questions to Dean regarding fatherhood curious. I find his effort in this post to be an extraordinary exercise of thoughtful fathering given the value that our culture places on fatherhood.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5aGIWyGNUA

  38. OS: Commenters certainly can ask about origins of any content in the posts on TMV. The point is civility in the asking. The replies ought be civil also. Commenters are welcome to give their facts and opinions and teachings about the content or sources of content. Civilly. I hope that helps to clarify. And, thanks for asking OS.

  39. @ keith Thanks….

    Took a look at the clip. Am familiar with Terrance McKenna and have found him and a number of the early explorers in consciousness to be most interesting. For many years worked as a psychotherapist where it was very common to encourage ‘inner mothering’ yet not once do i remember any professional material on ‘inner fathering’…my interest are more with how the imbalance or neglect of fathering effects the collective…

    Shrug the shoulders and say i don’t know when it comes to the feminist/anti-feminist–masculine/anti-masculine debates… all too often they are based in individual perspectives and personal life experiences that lead to polarization. The debates become defensive and protective of one’s own sex, whereas mothering and fathering are rooted in a deeper ground of something greater than personal self. I sense that is where we might bring a greater balance.

    Example of pondering:

    If we had a more balanced and healthy fathering principle, would there of been the banking crisis? A few of the characteristics of healthy fathering is teaching children consequences of behavior, responsibility for self and others, moral values, and how to live from a place of personal integrity.

    If we had a society based in healthy mothering principle would we so readily send our children to war for profit for the few, such as oil interest?

    Perhaps the purest model we can know as human is Father/Mother/Child, the holy trinity grounded into earth, why not honor and enhance fathering and mothering principles in the institutions that governor us?..

    Just rambling here, but am all for a healthy cooperative balance of mothering and fathering at individual and collective….

  40. @ OS
    “my interest are more with how the imbalance or “neglect” of fathering effects the collective”
    if by “neglect of fathering” you are referring to fathers being neglectful I would say that it reflects a pervasive cultural perspective with dire outcomes for the inflexibility of it’s position.

    If you mean that fatherhood itself suffers neglect, the outcome is what we have now. The collective is vanishing, eroded by division. Fathering was removed from the culture when we urbanized, the traditional marriage all but destroyed fathering. No effort has been made since to give it back its life or even sanctify it as part of the culture. It has been rendered as redundant and unnecessary in this culture. What our culture is teaching our children is that adult females have families, adult males do not. There is a point at which this will become irreversible. The decline in marriage, the decline in birth rates that sustain population and the statistics on the above poster are all indicators of a trend away from fathering.

  41. Roro, my family is in the construction business. We run numerous safety programs including a reward based system (free stuff) for good behaviour. All of that still does not keep certain people from doing dumb and dangerous stuff.

    Anyone know the stats on seatbelt usage?

  42. The only thing wrong with Dean’s message is that half of the point do not support his argument. The solid half is all Dean needs to make a very strong case. The rest detracts from his case and gives any opponent a wide variety options to negate the real case he is making.

    And that is my point.

    There is value in his message. It is just buried by the rest of the piece.

  43. Shannon — of course things will be at different levels depending on the industry. But to your seatbelt point, in California where it has been mandatory for decades and failure to use them carries high fines, usage is practically universal, particularly when compared with (as just an example) Argentina, where there are no laws about wearing seatbelts, and most consider it kind of silly and nerdy to wear them. Safety outcomes are also much better for those areas where it’s illegal not to. Sure, as with your construction company, not everyone follows the rules, and sometimes even those who do end up in fatal crashes, but it’s a great deal better than where there are no rules or rules that exist are ignored.

  44. There is value in his message. It is just buried by the rest of the piece.

    I keep hoping that maybe he’ll come out with a piece about how to help change those statistics, which as you note, are important and should not be ignored. But his pieces just turn into anti-feminist screeds, where the message is not “these are problems that need to be fixed” but instead “feminists are terrible and awful and hate men”. The latter is neither correct nor at all valuable as a message.

  45. @ keith

    Sorry neither interpretations resonate with what was conveyed. Merely suggesting an honoring of both mothering and fathering principle….compassion and responsibility….a society that nurturing children as well as teaching moral values… i am not invested in polarization of the sexes…mothers and fathers can teach and model both mothering and fathering…

    The feminism i am familiar with is not ‘misandry’ but rather egalitarianism.

    Do not agree that the movement of women working for an egalitarian society has destroyed the masculine, fathering, or the family…. Perhaps male as dominate has changed….and some are having a more difficult time in sorting through how to be strong vibrant men and fathers when the roles have changed from domination to egalitarian. Overall i hear victim mentality with the thread that runs through ‘poor men’ and do not see that as being the most effective advocacy.

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    DRIVE ALL BLAMES INTO ONESELF

    There’s a slogan in the mahayana teachings that says, “Drive all blames into oneself.” The essence of this slogan is, “When it hurts so bad, it’s because I am hanging on so tight.” It’s not saying that we should beat ourselves up. It’s not advocating martyrdom. What it implies is that pain comes from holding so tightly to having it our own way and that one of the main exits we take when we find ourselves uncomfortable, when we find ourselves in an unwanted situation or an unwanted place, is to blame.

    This slogan is a helpful and interesting suggestion that we could begin to shift that deep-seated, ancient, habitual tendency to hang on to having everything on our own terms. The way to start would be, first, when we feel the tendency to blame, to try to get in touch with what it feels like to be holding on to ourselves so tightly.

    Pema Chodron

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    If i were going to advocate for any issue, would first drive all blame into myself…for that which we can take responsibility for we can change…on this issue, instead of putting energy into hate or blame, would put it into that energy into helping men in being better fathers and making peace with evolving roles. … In truth there are lots of programs of men coming together and supporting each other to bring forth their best when it comes to being fathers…May they be successful…

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