Due to travel, I got online late. The following are some live blogging entries on the debate in South Carolina between GOPers seeking the 2012 Republican nomination. These are the reactions of an independent voter who has been in both parties — reactions not to political stands as much as to how they answered, came across and how what they say will help or hurt them with their voters and independent voters.
Since I’ve started this late I will also include some live blogging from other websites and Twitter as well. Newest entries on top. All times here are EST:
CONCLUSIONS: My quick conclusions — which could change within minutes as I ponder what I have seen. These comments are not based on my own political preferences but evaluating how they all did:
MITT ROMNEY: B+ No one laid a hand on him. Very appealing in a debate but falls into boilerplate platitudes.
NEWT GINGRICH: Except for the question early on about his Bane Capital attack (which I did not see since I started late) it was his night. Very strong. Playing to the crowd. A
RICK PERRY: My bias. He always seems to be pandering. C
RICK SANTORUM: Not bad but not up to Gingrich. B
RON PAUL: Got booed on foreign policy and probably did not expand his constituency. B-
It’s hard to say who “won” but Gingrich came on very strong. See Tweets by Larry Sabato below. I agree with him: if Gingrich gets more votes than Santorum, this debate will be why.
And Romney? No one destroyed him. He didn’t gain; he didn’t lose. So given his polls — if the primary election results reflec the polls — it will was a win.
10:44 Romney says he can’t call and take it off the air. But he can tell them publically if anything that’s inaccurately “I hope they take it off the air and don’t run it” — and then hits Gingrich for his super Pac ad. “It’s probably the biggest hoax since bigfoot.” This is a case of the pots calling the pots “pots.” Gingrich says the PAC has sent a set up questions to Romney’s ad to be editing. Now calls on Romney to edit his PAC’s ad on Gingrich. Romney balone: “This campaign isn’t about ads, it’s about issues.” Romney blasts PACS etc. (If Romney is put on Mount Rushmore will they have room for his two faces?). Of course, it’s all spin: Gingrich and Romney will use the Super Pacs to do their dirtywork if it benefits them. Welcome to Hypocrisy 101…
10:43: Gingrich says Romney saying he has no influence over his super pac “makes you wonder how much influence he’d have if he was President.” Says Romney pack completely distorting a vote he made related to abortion. Calls it “an absurdity” and calls on Romney to use his influence to take falsehoods off the air.
10:42 Ron Paul laughs off Santorum claiming Paul if he had his way would do away with the 2nd amendment to protect manufacturers of guns. Paul says tort law should be a state function.
[A couple of Tweets from the great Andy Borowitz:
BorowitzReport Andy Borowitz
Watching these Republicans debate on MLK day is like going to a Mel Gibson movie on Yom Kippur. #scdebate
3 hours agoBorowitzReport Andy Borowitz
Newt Gingrich has a dream and it involves 9-yr-old janitors.
4 hours ago]
10:34: I just LOST a long entry in a system hiccup. Gingrich and Santorum had an extended debate about social security, etc and both looked exceedingly good. Serious debate. On issues. But Gingrich is the one shining tonight. I bet there are some social conservative activists who are watching this and now feel they backed the wrong anti-Romney. Gingrich is much stronger candidate of the two — at least in this debate.
[Some Tweets from toprate columnist Dick Polman’s TWitter page:
DickPolman1 Dick Polman
Wait…Did Perry just say that Obama has “disdain for America?” The same president who has overseen decapitation of al Qaeda? #SCdebate
9 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Wait….did Perry just say that our longtime ally Turkey is run by terrorists? #SCdebate
13 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Is Rick Perry still on that stage? #SCdebate
16 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
After getting booed by the white yahoos, Juan Williams might beg to go back to NPR. #SCdebate
19 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Uh oh. South Carolina whites learn that a Romney forebear was born in Mexico. That could be a bigger turnoff than his Bain tenure. #SCdebate
35 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Bingo, we have audience yahoos booing at the mention of “Mexico.” #SCdebate
42 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Audience pining for dream comment: “If this food stamp apologist socialist doesn’t shape up, we oughta fire on him at Ft. Sumter.” #SCdebate
43 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
THAT’S the Newt we love. He honors Martin Luther King Day by playing the race card, calling Obama a “food stamp president.” #SCdebate
50 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Major yahoo factor in this GOP audience. Cheering the deadbeats who keep getting jobless benefits. #SCdebate
52 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Romney says, “I believe in freedom.” That should put the flip-flop image to rest. #SCdebate
56 minutes agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Rick Santorum, defender of ex-felon voting rights. Is that really a winning issue in a South Carolina Republican primary? #SCdebate
1 hour agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Hilarious to see the candidates whining about hits from super PACs – which were a creation of the Supreme Court’s GOP appointees. #SCdebate
1 hour agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Romney said Obama doesn’t have a jobs plan. Another Romney lie. He omitted the ’11 jobs plan that the GOP blocked on Cap Hill. #SCdebate
1 hour agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Romney praises the USA: “Income per capita in this country is 50 percent higher than Europe.” Gee. Who’s the president of the USA? #SCdebate
1 hour agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Romney talks/rebuts for a full minute without addressing the demand that he release his tax returns. #SCdebate
1 hour agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Now Romney claims that at Bain he helped create “120,000 jobs.” Two weeks ago it was “100,000.” Last summer it was “tens of 1000s.”
1 hour agoDickPolman1 Dick Polman
Fox has “Alcatraz,” and Fox News has the Republican debate. Two casts with lots of dead people. #SCdebate]
10:23: Romney asked about social security, etc. Gives some specifics on what he’d do. His explanation is reasonable — he’s not foaming at the mouth. Advocates the Paul Ryan plan on Medicare. The Dems will indeed have fun with this in campaign ads but Romney is good enough in debates that if he explains it in a highly watched debate with Obama it’ll take some of the edge of the Dem’s attacks. Again, Romney is a very watchable, listenable candidate.
10:22: Perry going on about jobs again. I wonder: why is he doing this. He REALLY thinks he can win this? Another thought: my reaction to Ron Paul was not about the concept of the Golden Rule or about how it would have been useful to get info from bin Laden. Paul is suggesting in front of THIS crowd…THIS audience…THIS market that these should be firm rules (don’t kill but capture, do unto others…)
[Some Tweets carried on the Huffington Post, some from the HP’s political maven Howard Fineman:
7:09 PM – Today
Gingrich Dominating
@ howardfineman : watching the debate and the stream of Twitter commentary it’s clear: Newt Gingrich is kicking butt, impressing conservatives, in the debate
7:08 PM – Today
Gingrich: ‘Kill’ Enemies
@ jonward11 : Newt: “Andrew Jackson had a pretty clear cut idea about america’s enemies: kill them.”
7:08 PM – Today
Paul Talks Killing Of Osama Bin Laden
@ howardfineman : “All of a sudden gone, that’s it,” Ron Paul laments about the killing of Osama. And so, perhaps, is with Ron Paul’s candidacy.
7:08 PM – Today
Crowd Not Pleased With Paul
@ MSignorile : SC crowds boos Ron Paul for promoting due process and the Constitution. #SCDebate
7:07 PM – Today
Paul Comment Draws Boos From Crowd
@ LEBassett : Ron Paul: Why didn’t we try to get some information from Osama instead of killing him? …draws boos from crowd
10:15: Perry blasts Obama administration for calling Marines peeing on dead Talibans “despicable.” He talks about Danny Pearl getting his head cut off as an example of despicable. Mr. Perry: I covered Camp Pendleton as part of my job as a reporter for the San Diego Union newspaper in the 1980s. The young Marines, officers, and bigwigs I knew would consider this DESPICABLE. That is NOT marine or military behavior. But why lecture Perry? He has set the record for a politician who was hyped becoming a total turnoff not to just Democrats but Republicans. (Oops!)
[Some Tweets on the great political scientist Larry Sabato’s Twitter page:
Seeing this core of the SC GOP, I understand better why Lindsay Graham is always on the edge of oblivion.
1 minute agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
If Newt beats Santorum on Saturday, this debate will be one major reason why.
3 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
I’d love to know more about this audience…Seriously, I think they’re on the verge of rushing Ft. Sumpter.
4 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
Gone with the Debate Wind: Rick Santorum. Is he still on stage?
7 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
Newt Gingrich owes Juan Williams an expensive dinner for asking that question.
14 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
This is just too easy for Newt. Biggest Standing O of the night. But will it help him Saturday?
16 minutes ago
\LarrySabato Larry Sabato
Look, if you were Romney & skating to the nomination, you’d wait until it was yours before releasing your tax returns too.
21 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
Mitt should have just announced, “I will release my tax returns in April.” 2012’s equivalent of “I will go to Korea.” 🙂
24 minutes agoalexcast Alex Castellanos
might release taxes in april? no point saying “might”. now he has to in april. strange
26 minutes ago
Retweeted by LarrySabatoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
Back to Romney’s income taxes. He accepts the inevitable. Put it on your April calendar.
28 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
Gingrich knocked the tax question out of the park. Paul launched a probe to Mars.
29 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
The other candidates are like waxen statues looking at Ron Paul.
30 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
SC very hawkish–Paul’s defense position won’t play as well there than in more dovish IA & NH.
31 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
This SC R audience is THE most conservative of any debate so far. Has it really been 150 yrs since the Civil War? 🙂
34 minutes agoLarrySabato Larry Sabato
The pattern is set. If these candidates want to get SC Rs in a Standing O, turn any question to states rights & Obama’s wrongs.
38 minutes ago
»LarrySabato Larry Sabato
Strong question by Juan Williams on voting rights. But this is a SC GOP audience–so home run by Rick Perry.
40 minutes ago10:11 In terms of content, I could not vote for Gingrich. But in terms of his debate performance? I suspect he has greatly helped himself. But it may be too little, too late.]
[Some Tweets on the Hot Air Town Hall aggregator on Hot Air:
allahpundit Newt playing like the Giants tonight, everyone else like the Jets
8 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favoriteKatiePavlich . @BretBaier please ask about ridiculous rules of engagement and whether GOP candidates would get rid of them
14 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favoriteKatiePavlich Bullet through the face, courtesy of Navy SEALS #Americanway
about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favoriteguypbenson RT @jimgeraghty: Newt: “Kill our enemies.” Paul: “Warmonger!”
about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favoriteallahpundit Did Newt just take over this debate? #newtmentum
about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favoriteTinaKorbe Members of the crowd stand for Newt’s “Kill” our enemies; boo Ron Paul.
2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favoriteKatiePavlich If Ron Paul were president, we’d a have a national “Hug a Taliban so they are nice to us” day
2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favoriteKatiePavlich “Andrew Jackson had a pretty good view about America’s enemies: Kill them” -Gingrich
2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favoriteallahpundit LINO —> RT @andylevy: Does Ron Paul know that Argentina claimed Israel violated it’s sovereignty by capturing Eichmann?]
10:08 Romney says me too on bin Laden. Agrees with Gingrich that bin Laden deserved a “bullet in the head.” Attacks Obama for “weakness” re Taliban, pulling out of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Calls for stronger military.
10:06: OMG. Paul – in today’s climate – says the U.S. should use the “Golden Rule” in foreign policy. Uses word “war mongering.” He has probably decreased his votes on this answer. He will now be limited to his loyalists and to some Democrats, who can’t vote in the primary.
10:05: Gingrich on bin Laden. “Now, he’s not a Chinese dissident.” Good Gingrich response also on Pakistan complicity. Gingrich looks good in this latter part of the debate. Says Andrew Jackson had a good idea what to do with America’s enemies: “Killed them.”
10:04 pm: Ron Paul is toast. He is hung up now saying the U.S. should have captured and not killed Osama bin Laden. He is DONE. Crowd is not happy but aside from this group, I suspect most Americans will react the same way.
[I missed the first part of the debate. Gingrich didn’t have a good beginning. The Hill reports:
Newt Gingrich was put on the defensive with the first question of Monday night’s GOP presidential debate when he was asked about his recent attacks on Mitt Romney.
The former speaker repeatedly avoided making the same strident attacks on Romney’s private-sector record he’s made in recent weeks.
Meanwhile, Rick Santorum and Rick Perry heavily criticized Romney, the GOP frontrunner for the nomination.
Gingrich was asked twice by Fox News’s Brett Baier about his attacks on Romney. Both times, he painted his attacks as honest questions about Romney’s record that the candidate should have time to respond to before the general election, but seemed to squirm in avoiding a direct attack on Romney.He didn’t make eye contact with Romney while he was speaking, keeping his focus toward the audience.
Finally, on the third repetition of the question, Gingrich gave a tepid version of his original attack. “There was in a pattern in some companies, a handful of them, of leaving them with enormous debt and then within a year or two or three having them go broke,” he said of Romney’s record at Bain Capital. “That is something he ought to answer for.”
Romney, smiling, then praised Gingrich’s record before giving an answer on his time in the private sector.
Gingrich was quickly upstaged by Perry, who went directly at Romney. “Mitt, we need you to release your income tax returns,” he said. “”We cannot fire our nominee in September. We need to know now.”
Perry turned directly to Romney during his talk but the former Massachusetts governor did not answer whether he’d release his returns.
Santorum also hit Romney heavily, pressing him on his stance about convicts voting.]
9:56: My impression right now as they go to a break is one I noted on this website earlier: many independents, Republican moderates, Democratic centrists could vote for Romney. But they would never vote for Newt Gingrich. Many would vote against the GOP rather than stay home. For all his flaws you can’t imagine Romney picking up a piece of paper during the McCarthy era and saying he has the names of Communists; you can with Gingrich. And you could see how Romney might try to build bridges to the opposition; Gingrich would tell anyone who doesn’t agree with him to take a hike. Of course, my reaction probably means Gingrich will now SOAR in the polls in South Carolina. More than ever before, Newt Gingrich is an utter turnoff to independent voters or any Americans who hope that we can lower our voices and talk to rather than demonize each other.
9:51: Juan Williams asks Gingrich whether he thinks his comments about blacks and work and putting kids to work as janitors is insulting. “No,” Gingrich says. Gingrich is really of a party of one: The Gingrich Party. He is prepared, with anecdotes about people who think his comments are wise. Is he going to talk about Joe the Plumber? Or Joe the Janitor? Any second now. Here is Gingrich talking about how much it costs to hire janitors. Has the GOP (and Gingrich) fallen this far? Will he soon talk about the importance of changing toilet paper rolls. “Only the elites despise earning money.” So where did ANYONE say they despise work. Juan Williams is nailing him on the questions. Notes Gingrich’s reaction to a black church. Williams is booed which says more about the GOP crowd. A turnoff for many independents if they’re watching. Gingrich goes into Obama putting more people on food stamps than any other President in American history.
Gingrich may actually gain in votes with this: this is the kind of thing that appeals to some voters — voters that many independents will flee away from. Gingrich is now suggesting “liberals” don’t want the pursuit of happiness or for people to work and get jobs. (If I was not live blogging I would turn off this debate right now.) Gingrich would have been at his glory in the McCarthy era.
9:49 pm: I haven’t watched much of the debate but I don’t see anything so far that (excuse the word, puh-leaze) trumps the spate of polls showing that the nomination belongs to Mitt Romney. None of the others look really bad right now but no one is really delivering a hard punch to Romney and Romney is good when he does specifics and knows how to fill up time with boring boilerplate to avoid more specifics.
[A bit of Stephen Green aka Vodka Pundit’s legendary “drunk blogging”:
6:34PM I’m just fascinated by the fact that Santorum’s hair is just as perfect at Mitt’s, but his colorist is so much more heavy-handed.
Also, he has some nice content here, but I never want to hear that “we gave the states” flexibility. I want to hear more stuff like Perry says, that it isn’t DC’s business.
6:35PM Wow. A question for Newt. He’s been almost an afterthought so far tonight.
6:36PM Newt: Tie unemployment benefits to job training, because DC knows where the jobs are. Or something.
Such small-government instincts, tied to big-government dreams.
6:37PM To Mitt: Are you going to print up a bunch of money to bail out Europe?
Mitt: No blank checks.
But what about blank Czechs or Belgians or Spaniards or Greeks?
6:38PM Oh, Mitt just sounded all Reaganesque there. I don’t buy it, but he sure sounded it.
6:39PM To Ron: Why do you hate the military?
6:40PM Ron: When I’m President, I’ll open Army bases right in your house!
Um… Third Amendment?
6:42PM I’ve never heard Ron this incoherent. I don’t always agree with him — by a longshot — but I can always follow his logic. That answer was all over the place, trying to justify his military budget plans while pandering to SC voters. His worst debate moment of this campaign.
6:42PM MItt: I’d like to lower taxes, but keep collecting them as-is until then. Or something.
6:43PM Ron: “The inflation tax.” He’s right. That one is in full effect, too.
6:43PM To Mitt: Release your income tax records.
6:45PM Mitt: A definite maybe that Might at some point when it becomes traditional with the exposure if I’m the nominee and with the April date.
Bad answer. Enough ummmms to fill a Hanson video.
6:45PM Mitt: The Latin voters love me like the Bossa Nova.
6:46PM I’m loving the heck out of the Everybody Hates Mitt show, but I could use another commercial break.]
9:45: Romney on immigration. His answer slides into some platitidudes. But insists those here illegally can’t be given special treatment to stay here over those who’ve been in line. Would veto the Dream Act if it allows those here going to school illegally to stay here. “I want people to know I love legal immigration.” HINT TO ROMNEY: your answer is good for the Republican right but is probably making Jeb and George W and George HW Bush wince. Kiss the Latino vote goodbye.
9:43: Romney says he keeps open idea of releasing his tax records around April when other nominees have released them. He removed an attack point…unless in April he won’t release them.
[Here’s a bit of Daily Kos live blogging:
6:21 PM PT: Rick Santorum is landing some strong punches on Romney with respect to Romney’s Super PAC attack ads. Romney is now denying having anything to do with his Super PAC. Yeah, right.
6:22 PM PT: Mitt Romney is just so unlikeable.
6:23 PM PT: I have a feeling when this election is over, both parties are going to seriously consider banning Massachusetts politicians from seeking the presidency.
6:26 PM PT: Okay we’re in commercial break. Are you daydreaming about how President Obama is going to shred Mitt Romney’s fragile little ego when they debate?
6:26 PM PT: To summarize my main takeaways so far: Mitt Romney is going to be the nominee. Nobody likes him.
6:28 PM PT: And actually some people even hate him. If you’re indifferent to him, then he’s doing well with you. Oh, and just wait until he releases his tax returns. If he ever does. Imagine how pissy he’s going to be about explaining those.
6:30 PM PT: Mitt Romney tries to define his flip-flop problem as being solely related to his flip-flop on pro-choice/pro-life. Dude, there is so much more. He flip-flops on everything. He’s even flip-flopping now by saying he’s only flip-flopped on choice, because he’s even admitted that he’s more conservative now than he was ten years ago.
6:30 PM PT: I mean, Mitt Romney is the freaking father of Obamacare! And now he says his top priority is repealing it! He’s a flip-flopper extraordinaire!]
9:39: Ron Paul says reporters question about his military cuts hurting jobs in South Carolina is confused. Notes that he gets more money from active military than other candidates put together — that military wants to stop policing the world. Says when asked again that there is a different between military spending and defense spending. He wants to cut “waste” in that sector. Paul speaks with passion and, agree with him or not, doesn’t seem to be trying to vomit up talking points or position himself. Says can’t understand why conservatives if they are conservatives don’t want to spend less money.
9:36: Romney talks about bankruptcy a process, banking sector. He works the word “Europe” into it. But Romney talking in specifics about free enterprise is a plus. It’s when he seems to try to use up time and not give an answer by delivering boilerplate that he falls flat. If Romney hits specifics in debates with Obama he will do quite well. Romney looks good in a debate, he is preparedm, his speaking style cannot be confused with that of Al Gore or Ralph Nader.
9:35: Gingrich says all unemployment benefits should be tied to job training. Suggests Barack Obama doesn’t think work is good. This is how Gingrich and the GOP LOSE independent voters. And he again calls Obama the “food stamp President.” Name calling and demonization. He started out with a good idea — job training. But primary voters want the hot buttons.
9:33: Santorum on why he doesn’t want to extend unemployment benefits. Given South Carolina’s high unemployment rate, I wonder if he’s asking for people to not vote for him. Most people who are unemployed and worried about getting unemployment benefits won’t be focused on the states rights. Nor will they agree that the government ‘is not doing people any favor” by keeping them on benefits for a long period of time. Ideology trumps political brain?
9:31: Perry says the Justice Department is “at war” with South Carolina. His assertions aside, if he looked and sounded this good when he first started out, he’d be in better shape. He also talks about the Obama administrations “war against organized religion.” He’s pushing so many hot buttons he’ll get blisters. He is offering specifics, however — specifics people can debate. This is in contrast to Romeny’s boilerplate platititudes.
9:29 pm: Romney gives a somewhat convoluted answer about why he changes his positions. It will convince NO ONE — not conservatives, and certainly not those of us who are moderates who liked the first incarnation of Romney. He immediately goes into boilerplate platititudes. Why does he remind me here of Thomas Dewey? Romney seems like he belongs on top of a wedding cake. With a face on each side of his head.
9.25 pm. When will Romney tell us why he alone will not release his tax returns? So far, I think Santorum has dominated and will likely benefit. Romney’s plasticness is somehow particularly exposed by Santorum’s relentless, terrier-like impertinence.
9.22 pm. Santorum trips up Romney’s smooth operator schtick. And Romney won’t answer. This is where Santorum’s assholery can come into its own. Santorum is now defending former felons’ right to vote. And then he pounces on Romney for governing under different laws when he was running Massachusetts. Romney then whines about Super Pacs. Maybe someone should ask these candidates about Citizens United. This is great – and Romney is a little rattled. So far: advantage Perry and Santorum.
9.19 pm. How great to see Ron Paul tell it like it is. No apologies for serious criticism of other candidates’ record. Santorum has no answer but to blame the left. And that he apologizes for No Child Left Behind. Then a confusing answer on “right to work” issues.
9.16 pm. Seib narrows in on the profits Bain made when its clients still collapsed. Romney doesn’t answer on that direct point. Then we have a paean to “free enterprise”. As if that was the issue at hand. Still no response on the tax returns. Then a lie: Obama has no jobs plan? Has he heard of the American Jobs Act? How can he just tell lies like that?
9.15 pm. Romney is now blaming China for Bain’s bankrupt steel mills. Then the regulations canard.
Joe Gandelman is a former fulltime journalist who freelanced in India, Spain, Bangladesh and Cypress writing for publications such as the Christian Science Monitor and Newsweek. He also did radio reports from Madrid for NPR’s All Things Considered. He has worked on two U.S. newspapers and quit the news biz in 1990 to go into entertainment. He also has written for The Week and several online publications, did a column for Cagle Cartoons Syndicate and has appeared on CNN.