First there’s this.

Wow

Wow! Nineteen-ninety one!

Then, there’s this.

Gay marriage opinion

First of all, I take from the gay union poll that Obama needs to pursue repealing DOMA’s provision that prevents the Federal government from recognizing unions. I think this should be a high priority as well. Secondly, the more I look into any civil rights issue (slavery, suffrage, marriage issues) the more it becomes obvious that the movements succeed by influencing generational changes in opinion, and few people actually change their mind once their political identity has formed. As you can see from both polls, there are obvious sharp generational shifts. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that interracial marriage was accepted by a majority beginning in 1991, but then skyrocketed in the next decade. That coincides with the 60s-70s crowd becoming the ascendant generation. Civil rights is just a war of attrition and for gay rights in general, the changes are occurring far faster than any previous rights movement and in twenty years these battles will look silly. I guess the gays really are after your children…just slightly different than the fear mongering context that statement normally has.

Actually I think one of the reasons why gay rights has had it so “easy” is that homosexuals are of all races and creeds, so once the relatively low bar of people admitting they were gay to friends was reached (I’m talking about in the grand scheme of things, it’s obviously hard for many people) then very quickly it became hard to think of it as “not normal.” I’ve certainly seen this reaction a ton in my own life.

MIKKEL FISHMAN, Economics Editor
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Guest
Guest
Guest
7 years 9 months ago
As a gay person in the UK I find your posting very interesting. It is true that it is relatively easy for a caucasian child in the US or Europe to be brought up isolated from people of a different race. However when that child’s brother or sister comes out as gay then this issue is really brought home. However gay people do have a major obstacle at present which fortunately does not exist for those subject to discrimination on the basis of race. This obstacle is that general society still considers it legitimate for religious organisations to express and… Read more »
mikkel
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mikkel
7 years 9 months ago
While there is that religious angle I’m not sure it’s much different than it used to be for sexism and racism. At the risk of getting flack, I’m going to go ahead and point out that a lot of overly religious justification is just a mask for socially reactionary views. When it came to slavery or woman’s rights, the religious conservative movements tended to oppose them based on Biblical grounds. Even the “traditional marriage” that they are now proclaiming to be fighting for was opposed by religious movements when marriage started to become more of a coequal and individualistic instead… Read more »
Manchester2
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Manchester2
7 years 9 months ago
Whether a person is gay or straight has little bearing on their ability to do a certain job. It’s irrelevant, and to refuse hire or promote on that basis alone is misguided. Our laws more and more include language prohibiting such a practice, and so they should. But should marriage be redefined so radically? On that question, there is an emerging negative consensus. There are many people of faith, myself included, who consider this the “bridge too far.” It’s hard to see how – having granted this right to same-sex couples – there would be any basis in law to… Read more »
mikkel
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mikkel
7 years 9 months ago
How is there an “emerging negative consensus” based on the poll excerpt I displayed. Fifty-eight percent of people support either marriage or union, 40% of the youngest demographic supports marriage outright (68% for either) and those numbers have risen modestly in the past decade. However, your lead in caveat goes back to what I referred to in my previous comment and those numbers have shifted enormously in the last two decades. Seventy-five percent of people support gays serving openly in the military, compared to 44% in 1993. On private behavior: Between 1973 and 1993, more than two-thirds of the public… Read more »
AustinRoth
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AustinRoth
7 years 9 months ago

mikkel – the discussions on this board have focused almost exclusively on gay marriage, and that civil unions are not sufficient. I have stated my support for civil unions, but not gay marriage (at least not by judicial fiat), but that has not prevented a lot of people on this board as tarring me as a bigot and anti-gay.

So, while increasing, the support for gay marriage is still only 30%, not exactly overwhelming yet, and less than the percentage that say no legal recognition at all.

mikkel
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mikkel
7 years 9 months ago
I think this highlights the difference between social and political argument…which personally I feel are way too intertwined. I think that gays should have marriage and be treated like everyone else completely, and find the arguments against that stupid, but that doesn’t mean that the government should. On the other hand, there are so many laws and policies that apply only to marriage that the argument that civil unions aren’t the same from a government services standpoint does matter, so I find it hard to support civil unions until they are explicitly equated. This means either rulings (or preferably laws)… Read more »
Silhouette
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Silhouette
7 years 9 months ago
“I guess the gays really are after your children” **** As absurd as this sarcastic remark sounds from the article, it has a grain of truth. In The Ten Reasons Gays Chase Straights, http://www.thefreelibrary.com/10+reasons+gays+chase+straights%3a+we've+all+done+it%2c+and+some+of+us+do…-a0106560150 reason #10 does indicate a double-message in that on the one hand it seems to plead to gays to be reasonable and buck the urge to recruit heteros, but on the other hand it leaves off, cryptically, with a question mark? as to whether or not that is a bad idea. Coupled with the reference to blinders at the end, it makes one wonder whether instead… Read more »
mikkel
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mikkel
7 years 9 months ago
Thanks for the link, it was very ironic. Nearly every single reason was saying that many gays and lesbians have emotional and psychological hangups due to feeling ostracized and that’s why they pursue self destructive behavior by chasing someone that won’t be interested in them. Even the ones that say the suitor is well adjusted, the problem is the assumption that perhaps the love interest isn’t. And the final one wasn’t about “recruiting” it was about the idea that it’s so hard to find love that to close yourself off to possibility is self defeating. Or in other words, the… Read more »
Guest
Guest
Guest
7 years 9 months ago

Well Silhouette, The “Ten Reasons Gays Chase Straights” is a humorous piece.

I think that the “gays are after our children” argument probably benefits gay liberation because it is so paranoid, bizarre and funny.

Silhouette
Guest
Silhouette
7 years 9 months ago

BTW, I’d like to comment on that ad you have up today “Asian girls for love and marriage”.

It is SO walking a thin line of the child-prostitutioin problem in Asia. I’d like to see it immediately removed from this website. Honestly. How can you expect to maintain a reputation where readers will take you seriously if you are dancing around the line of child-prostitution? Has deviant sexuality really become this normalized already? Evidence at hand….

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