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I have to agree with AustinRoth on this one though. In another thread, he pointed out that this probably makes it less likely that Rummies head will roll, because the administration couldn’t allow even the appearance that the military brass were giving orders to the civilian leadership (which is unconstitutional: and yeah, I know you guys will argue that Bush has danced around the Constitution when it suits him, but do you deny that he would stand behind it when it suited him as well?)
In other words, I’m in the camp that says that Bush shouldn’t have dug in his heels about keeping Rumsfeld, but unfortunately I think this makes it even more likely that he won’t back off of that position.
Of course this will make it more likely that he’ll keep Rummy. Heaven forbid that he do something for the sake of the troops or what extremely slim chance we might have of improving the situation in Iraq. Bush’s ego and stubbornness trump all.
To be honest, CS, I think that the argument you’re giving is incredibly weak. Letting go of Rumsfeld because the military is fed up with him, is not weak -> it’s freaking smart, it’s the right thing to do, it’s logical, etc. If the military doesn’t have any trust left in Rumsfeld he should go. It is that simple.
I understand your reasoning, but I want to make you understand that it’s not as ‘logical’ as some seem to think: it is actually a flawed way of thinking (one Bush quite clearly adheres to).
Keeping on a secretary of defense who lost all trust from the military is not strong leadership: it is disastrous and stupid.
In fact, I would say, Bush could use this to his advantage (he should actually). He should use this as a way of proving that he is not as stubborn as some people seem to think he is, that he is willing to listen to criticism, etc. He should use this as a means of getting back the trust from Americans in general and from the American army.
I understand your reasoning, but I want to make you understand that it’s not as ‘logical’ as some seem to think: it is actually a flawed way of thinking (one Bush quite clearly adheres to).
But I think you’re misunderstanding me: I’m not saying that this isn’t flawed logic, I’m saying that I think it’s the reality. Not that Bush SHOULD use this as an excuse to dig in, but that he will. I agree with your last paragraph in the comment above, about what he really should do, but I don’t think it will happen that way.
It has to be all those Generals appointed during the Clinton era. This is a ‘vast Leftwing conspiracy’ to have a coup. I bet those Generals plan to remove Bush from his monarchy!!
Hello folks, this is Grog Limbaugh, people the damnable lies of the librul media to change the election are out in force. The drive by media, Gannett, is part of the MSM librul conspiracy. These libruls are calling for Rumsfeld to go, and it is no coincidence folks that this is happening just before an election. These publications do not represent the true feelings of the fighting men and women of our brave and valiant Armed forces. This is outrageous, this is treason, this is a subversive attack on our president in the middle of a WAR! If we loose this election it is from left wing subversion!
Hi Al Grognard here, people this is big big news, the military is in full revolt. On Monday there will be calls for the end of Rumsfeld, by the military press. This is what the military really thinks of Bush the clueless. They are completely fed up, this is it, this is the end, if we can’t win this election the ONLY conclusion you can possibly reach is that it was fixed by the corporate interests that support Cheneys hand puppet in chief.
See the spin? And remember if things go bad [close contested results] the moderates have no megaphone, the only side you will hear is the extremes.
(link)Michael van der Galien (mail) (www):
Good. Then I forgive you for your earlier comment.
Well, I’m not so sure that I can forgive your distortion of my words! I’m not going to be lectured by some stuffed shirt Dutchman. I apologize to no one!
Like Fred Sanford used to say,”this is the big one Lamont”
I keep hearing Jim Morrison singing “The End” as Helicopters fly by Mosques and date trees in slow motion fading into hazy Shock and Awe(tm) footage.
Now I know the truth. Hunter S. Thompson overdosed on reality.
Well we know that Rumsfeld will never be fired.
The question is if he is going to “retire” early.
More importantly, how many medals will Bush give him?
Wow!!
And timed for maximum impact, too.
It was a full broadside on the SS Bushtanic. Where’s Waldo Pelosie will not be this weekends talking points.
Just wow!
Ouch. That’s gotta hurt.
I have to agree with AustinRoth on this one though. In another thread, he pointed out that this probably makes it less likely that Rummies head will roll, because the administration couldn’t allow even the appearance that the military brass were giving orders to the civilian leadership (which is unconstitutional: and yeah, I know you guys will argue that Bush has danced around the Constitution when it suits him, but do you deny that he would stand behind it when it suited him as well?)
In other words, I’m in the camp that says that Bush shouldn’t have dug in his heels about keeping Rumsfeld, but unfortunately I think this makes it even more likely that he won’t back off of that position.
CS,
Of course this will make it more likely that he’ll keep Rummy. Heaven forbid that he do something for the sake of the troops or what extremely slim chance we might have of improving the situation in Iraq. Bush’s ego and stubbornness trump all.
To be honest, CS, I think that the argument you’re giving is incredibly weak. Letting go of Rumsfeld because the military is fed up with him, is not weak -> it’s freaking smart, it’s the right thing to do, it’s logical, etc. If the military doesn’t have any trust left in Rumsfeld he should go. It is that simple.
I understand your reasoning, but I want to make you understand that it’s not as ‘logical’ as some seem to think: it is actually a flawed way of thinking (one Bush quite clearly adheres to).
Keeping on a secretary of defense who lost all trust from the military is not strong leadership: it is disastrous and stupid.
In fact, I would say, Bush could use this to his advantage (he should actually). He should use this as a way of proving that he is not as stubborn as some people seem to think he is, that he is willing to listen to criticism, etc. He should use this as a means of getting back the trust from Americans in general and from the American army.
But I think you’re misunderstanding me: I’m not saying that this isn’t flawed logic, I’m saying that I think it’s the reality. Not that Bush SHOULD use this as an excuse to dig in, but that he will. I agree with your last paragraph in the comment above, about what he really should do, but I don’t think it will happen that way.
Good. Then I forgive you for your earlier comment.
It has to be all those Generals appointed during the Clinton era. This is a ‘vast Leftwing conspiracy’ to have a coup. I bet those Generals plan to remove Bush from his monarchy!!
Hello folks, this is Grog Limbaugh, people the damnable lies of the librul media to change the election are out in force. The drive by media, Gannett, is part of the MSM librul conspiracy. These libruls are calling for Rumsfeld to go, and it is no coincidence folks that this is happening just before an election. These publications do not represent the true feelings of the fighting men and women of our brave and valiant Armed forces. This is outrageous, this is treason, this is a subversive attack on our president in the middle of a WAR! If we loose this election it is from left wing subversion!
Hi Al Grognard here, people this is big big news, the military is in full revolt. On Monday there will be calls for the end of Rumsfeld, by the military press. This is what the military really thinks of Bush the clueless. They are completely fed up, this is it, this is the end, if we can’t win this election the ONLY conclusion you can possibly reach is that it was fixed by the corporate interests that support Cheneys hand puppet in chief.
See the spin? And remember if things go bad [close contested results] the moderates have no megaphone, the only side you will hear is the extremes.
Agreed.
Another thing I hope this does is end the myth that, “only the Republicans love the military”.
being Dutch I find Americans’ more than just respect for the military very interesting. It is much less prominent here.
Well, I’m not so sure that I can forgive your distortion of my words! I’m not going to be lectured by some stuffed shirt Dutchman. I apologize to no one!
Hehehehe….