Are Republicans Really This Nutty?
It’s not easy being a black, gay Republican and when news stories like this come out, it’s even harder. According to a poll done by the liberal website Daily Kos, they interviewed 2000 “self-identified” Republicans and found the following:
• 39% of Republicans want President Obama to be impeached.
• 63% think Obama is a socialist.
• Only 42% believe Obama was born in the United States.
• 21% think ACORN stole the 2008 election — that is, that Obama didn’t actually win it, and isn’t legitimately the president, with 55% saying they are “not sure.” This number is actually significantly lower than it was in a similar question from Public Policy Polling (D) back in November, which said that 52% of Republicans thought ACORN stole it. So does this mean Obama is gaining ground among Republicans? As it is, only just over 20% of Republicans will say that Obama actually won the election.
• 53% think Sarah Palin is more qualified than Obama to be president.
• 23% want to secede from the United States.
• 73% think gay people should not be allowed to teach in public schools. This position puts the GOP base well to the right of none other than Ronald Reagan, who helped defeat the Briggs Initiative, a 1978 referendum in California that would have forbidden gays or people who advocated gay rights from teaching in public schools.
• 31% want contraception to be outlawed.
Now at first blush, a moderate Republican like myself might think: “Wow, this party is filled with nothing but loonies. Why in the world do I want to be a part of that?” And so, said moderate gets discouraged and leaves the party to become an independent.
But before we moderates start heading for the hills, we have to ask a few questions. Ann Althouse, looked at the same story and came up with a few questions of her own:
…we have to stop first and wonder how good are the Daily Kos/Research 2000 pollsters. I picked up this story at Talking Points Memo, where there’s no information about why I should trust this poll. How did they locate their 2,000 “self-identified” Republicans, who, TPM tells us represent “the psyche of the minority party’s base”?
Also, I wonder if some people who aren’t conservative at all lie to pollsters — especially a poll with a lefty name like “Daily Kos” — so they can skew the results and give those folks the results they imagine the poll is designed to produce: that non-liberals are evil/stupid.
I guess I have some reservations about a poll that was conducted by a partisan website. Of course they want to produce a poll that makes Republicans look like small-minded bigots. As Althouse notes, these are “wonderful anti-Republican PR results.” We now have “proof” that the GOP is full of crazy people.
Now, there are crazy people who call themselves Republicans. I do think there is a problem in the GOP related to anti-intellectualism and outright bigotry. I’m not saying this poll has no bearing, but I do think it tends to skew the results to make people on the Left feel good about themselves and discount those on the right, the ones that aren’t crazy or think Sarah Palin is a genius. It feed into the popular myth on the Left that middle class voters should vote their economic interests, meaning they should vote Democrat and that anyone who votes GOP is stupid, evil or racist.
There is also a message here for moderate Republicans who might be tempted to take this result as gospel. Instead of looking at this report and giving up on the GOP, moderates need to focus on what is good: the Scott Brown win, groups like Log Cabin Republicans and Republicans for Environmental Protection who work for change, and many other good things. The fact is, I know a lot of good and reasonable Republicans who don’t wear tin foil hats.
The GOP isn’t all paradise. But it isn’t all psycho ward either.
Crossposted at Republicans United
83 Responses to “Are Republicans Really This Nutty?”
One of our regulars here Superdestroyer often comments on the lack of a future for the GOP based on changing demographics, but I think this poll shows the real reason why the GOP might be at risk. You can't keep appealing to the lowest common denominator to boost your ranks year after year after year (while making excuses for them) and expect then expect that element to magically turn into republicans you'd like to take home and meet Ike and Mamie or Ron and Nancy. Looks like somebody has some house cleaning to do.
Am I expected to *not* hate people who want to keep gay people from public schools?
Does anyone think society would be a better, more harmonious place if I didn't hate said people?
What absolute twaddle. I can't coexist peacefully with tribal bigots and cultural conquistadors like the GOP or the BNP. Soon the battle will probably turn bloody, as the economies suffer more readjustments and the populations age, leaving the increasingly pathetic white suburbanites clamoring for easy solutions and scapegoats. It's obvious to me that the Western dream of an enlightened, egalitarian, meritocratic and politically mature peaceful democracy is self-congratulatory and probably at odds with human nature. I hope it all unravels and that we drop our pretenses. America and Western Europe is most definitely not the future, and no longer bastions for anything else but excessive introspection and middle-age bloviation.
I once seriously considered moving to America. Now I'm starting to realize that Reagan scarred its foundation completely – Reagan got America hooked on a simulation of itself, like some teenager immersing himself in a virtual game world to the point where he cannot bear to look upon his real, average reality. A European would probably turn sick in today's America, and vice versa.
As a Republican, I have many of the same reactions to the poll as Dennis. If true, some of the polls findings are very problematic. But I remain skeptical. The one number that really surprises me is the 23% that allegedly favor secession. I have a hard time believing you'd get a number that high in Missisippi or South Carolina, let alone from a national cross-section of Republicans.
A very salient point is 'secede from what'? Your state from the Union? The US from the UN?
As with most polls, it also all depends on the exact question asked (which I didn't find a link to yet). If the question is 'should your state secede right now?', you will get a very different set of answers than if the question is 'if the Federal government continues to ignore the will of the people, would secession be a reasonable response?'
Axel, that's an interesting take on the changing demographics, but there are so many variables, and I'm always hopeful that logic, good sense, and heart will eventually trump all the negatives that are currently over-represented. As for Reagan, I was throwing a bone in one sense, since I was not a fan when he was in office, and never bought into the much over-hyped legacy. The problems we have in this country now are serious and will require serious answers, including sacrifice. Hopefully that won't mean sacrifice of common sense and our better instincts.
I thought Vermont was where all the secession talk was taking place, and we all know how much of a conservative haven that state is.
This poll really gives me the impression that the Dem structure is basically saying “You think things are bad with us, but do you really want to hand things over to these crazies?” Perhaps it would do us all a favor if someone like Newsbusters, HotAir, or even FoxNews commissioned Research 2000 to do a poll of the Democratic base. At least that way, we'd get an idea of just how crazy they all are.
Here's a link to the complete crosstabs. This is how the question is worded:
QUESTION: Do you believe your state should secede from the United States?
[Now, there are crazy people who call themselves Republicans]–
better look again, they are in
–[Now, there are crazy people who call themselves Republicans]–
Better look again, they fill elected office seats.
I too, would like to think these numbers are inflated, but I really can't say because most of my fellow Republicans are loony. How loony? They just love Palin, without remorse. They love Glenn Beck and believe every word he says.
The ones that have early 20-something kids without jobs, refuse to even think about encouraging their kids to enlist.
My 80-something year-old father, a life-long Republican, was so shocked by the venom he heard from his friends that he doesn't have many of them anymore. He tried to be reasonable, but they would hear nothing of it.
It doesn't matter if Reagan would pass the purity test or not. He made marketing, narratives and simulation something to be cherished, adored and deferred to, and so his legacy (and his name) can always be exploited by any right-wingers that come after him.
Reagan was the anti-substance president and he showed his party that that is a winning way of doing things (look at Palin, look at this latest poll, look at Fox News or even Michelle Bachmann, who would be tarred, feathered and rode out on a rail if she tried for office in most European countries) – so the fact that he in reality would fail the pathetic ten commandments of the GOP is completely unrelated. Reagan was a hologram, so he would be able to pass through the ideological sieve and his party would let him as long as he brought the voters.
You assume these people have a philosophical cell in their bodies and that the purity test is about policy – it's not. It's the idea or symbol of the purity test that matters, not its function.
I sincerely hope they do, The US would be a far better place…
Thanks jchem, but that link makes me eve more suspicious about this poll.
For instance, in it 76% claim that they consider abortion murder. But in a October 1,2009 Pew poll, 39% of Republicans answered yes to 'should abortion be legal'. Now, In know the questions are not identical, but I have a hard time believing that a almost 50% of Republicans that believe abortion is murder also believe it should be legal. That doesn't jibe.
Another is the KOS poll claiming only 4% of Republicans support women working outside the home. But a November 2, 2009 MSNBC/Time poll found that “around three-quarters of men and women believe that the growing presence of women in the workplace has been very or somewhat positive for American society and the economy.” There is simply no way to reconcile those results to each other.
Those are just two quick examples. I think something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
You're comments seem to get more bizarre as time goes on. I grew up in a mid-west small town, and I'm currently living in (actually just outside) a mid-west small town. I love talking politics so I seek out the few who are willing to do so. Do you know how often gay issues come up? Basically never. It's more part of the gossip circuit than the political one. That probably angers you because people aren't trying to push pro-gay laws, but at the same time, they're not fighting them either.
Public schools? I really have no clue as to what news item or law you could be referring to.
Are Democrats really that nutty?
Q 40. Do you personally think the world would be better off if the United States
loses the war in Iraq? Democrats YES 19%
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/100407_Iraq… (2007)
I wonder how many Democrats still think Gore “won” in 2000 and the election was “stolen”? That “corporations” are inherently “evil”? That Bush “hates black people”? That Bush “let 9-11 happen so he could invade Iraq”? That Rove secretly “outed” Plame? That Palin claimed she could “see Russia from my house”? That the new Republican Senator elected in Massachusetts (who some like to claim is more liberal than Scozzafava) is “irresponsible, homophobic, racist, reactionary, teabagging supporter of violence against woman and against politicians with whom he disagrees”?
lol at this whole topic
beam.remove.own_eye.before_mote_in_others
2000 “self-identified” Republicans and found the following:”
I defy anybody to come even close to replicating these results with a non-nut job survey. It sort of reminds me of the Jay Leno interviews on the street with spoofing galore.
If you think gay people should be banned from teaching in public schools, you are obviously evil. I don't get what is so difficult or controversial.
We might as well bar Presbyterians, left-handed people or people with freckles from teaching in public schools.
“Pro-gay laws”?. Satan almighty, do you read through the stuff that you type? *The status-quo is ANTI-GAY as it is! Trying to change that into an equal situation is *NOT* “pro-gay”!*
Governor Rick Perry (Texas) has repeatedly advocated for sucession from the US.
I say let the liberals keep on believing in the demise of the Republican Party by means of whatever nonsense is published out there in the lefty blogosphere and let them continue to lose at the only polls that count.
They talk, they scold, they whine………but do they actually ever deliver results?
You kidding? My entire family are FOX watching die hard conservatives. Taking a poll of them I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers were a bit low. I still can't even get the ones with college degrees to believe me when I say Obama isn't a muslim. I'm serious, that is not a joke. I am related to a group of people that demands obedience to Christ, supports wars and death penalties(I do to but I don't claim to follow Jesus's teachings), thinks gays are going to hell and that this country will disintegrate overnight if they are allowed to marry, bask in the ideals of freedom yet were instantly ready to suspend habeus corpus after 9/11 for any arab suspected of anything, and have purchased every book ever written by Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly. They are mainstream GOP, and they scare the living hell out of me.
I also question the representativeness of this sample.
I'm with you about how serious to take it, but lets be honest, there are currently two posts about it and about 40 comments combined. Whatever the motives were, people are talking about the results anyway. This is why I suggested on the other thread that we should have a poll to find out who the Democratic base is. Perhaps FoxNews can commission one?
This makes for good hype (and GOP-bashing) — I guess that frustration from Obama's spell wearing off, the Dems' self-defeat and mangling of the health care “reform” effort, and the Massachusetts election results has to be directed to some hate-object that's handy, like the GOP.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB200014240527487…
I thought that I was being perfectly clear, but I'll try again. Whoever suggested that gay people should be banned from teaching in public schools?
Which is why Governor Rick Perry is a tool. I brought up those folks in Vermont. Here's a TIME story on them. From what I can tell, those folks are far from conservative.
Wow! These doubts being expressed about the validity of the poll really strike me as disingenuous. Maybe the hardest thing to be honest and objective about is ourselves and those who we identify with eh? Even if this poll is off by a typically high degree of polling error for this type of poll, it still leaves a disturbingly substantial number of whackos who identify themselves as republicans. Frankly I'm not surprised to see these results, I mean look at the number of people who voted for GWB the second time, well after his abysmal record was clear to see. In a more anecdotal way, I have occasion to talk often with people who reflect the beliefs shown in those polls. It's a pity there isn't some inherent physiological condition that inhibits the desire of people to vote when their susceptibility to BS reaches a certain threshold.
ProfElwood,
You're attempting to reason with someone whose primary instinct, based on his own comments, appears to be hatred. Anyone who disagrees with his view is “evil', deserving of “hate”. That you were actually quoting him on the school teaching issue was ignored in favor of an opportunity to call someone, in this case you, “evil”.
Is that why you changed your image to the eagle…to take on folks like this?
test
they scare the living hell out of me.”
And, is the world flat?
BS reaches a certain threshold.
”
Watch your septic tank, JS.
Rick Perry is a complete tool, but he gets cheered every time he says it. Glenn Beck and Tom Delay backed him on it. Limbaugh featured a secessionist on his show.
your image to the eagle”
Actually, the turkey would have been more American (“exceptional” bird).
I'm perfectly aware that these things typically don't work out well. But I have to assume that he's here for a reason, and I don't mind being called names. Occasionally, you can dig past the rhetoric and find a real person behind it. So occasionally, I dig.
Thanks for the warning.
As for the image, it's springtime at TMV!
Axel is a troll. That is obvious now.
Remember – don't feed the trolls.
*The people in the poll*
All y'all know I'm a progressive Democrat, so there's no love lost with me should these results actually be true. However, I sure hope that DKos doctors the numbers, because the idea that I've been arguing with people entirely void of any sense of reason at all for all these years is far too depressing. The numbers don't seem right to me, but neither did the idea that the far right would coalesce under the banner of “tea-baggers'…so maybe my ability to gauge these things isn't as great as I claim…
a real person behind it.”
And he serves a function to skewer and criticize until we get the point- right in the eye.
“My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!”
Marquis de Sade
“Primary instincts”?
Yeah, that's just puerile silliness and incompetent analysis.
I hate people who deserve it. I think people who disagree with me when it comes to the full equality of gays or the loathsomeness of waterboarding is evil. I think the people in the poll who want to keep gays from teaching schools are evil. We treat people the way we want to be treated, right? Well, haters are obviously OK with hate. I'm not afraid of the hate of others, and they are not afraid of mine (even though the occasional person who is actually surprised and affronted when met with my hatred is a satisfying encounter). The trick is to outhate them, whether in intensity or by increasing your numbers. I seek to legitimize hatred of homophobes and others by asserting my own hatred – this is neither frightening or abnormal.
“Anyone who disagrees with his view is “evil', deserving of “hate”.”
When it comes to a few issues where I am capable of formulating the reasons for my extremism, yes. I guess this is very scary and mean and bad or something.
Pathetic.
tidbits, next time you want to describe me or try to summarize my inner workings, please don't hesitate to smack yourself on the nose with the palm of your hand and then shake your head at your unbelievable arrogance.
From the poll results in the original post.
[...] thought Kevin might be a little more skeptical. I certainly am, and so is Dennis. But unless you have evidence that something is actually wrong with the poll, what can you possibly [...]
Okay, I didn't see that. Honestly, I stopped reading at “ACORN”, because it just seemed a really out of whack with the Republicans that I've met, unless something changed in the last decade (there's not a lot of Republicans around here.)
there's not a lot of Republicans around here.)”
Try living in Manhattan. I have to wear a hat every day to cover my horns.
Axel,
I found myself smiling and chuckling under my breath at your predictable reply. My only regret is that I agree with you on the basic issues, putting me in the unfortunate position of being associated with you and the foul bile you spew. Your attempted bullying and hate filled rants belong on a less mature site.
Nothing that I have seen in this poll really surprises me… If you doubt the validity of the poll go to Free Republic, Red State or any other right wing site.
By George, you may have found the answer, DQ! Here's what I got off of the DailyKos site:
A total of 2003 self identified Republicans were interviewed nationally by telephone. Those interviewed were selected by the random variation of the last four digits of telephone numbers, nationally.
But nowhere do they say where they got the list of “self-identified Republicans” phone numbers from. If they got them from a membership list of a site like the ones you posted, then you'd expect them to look like this.
Thanks DQ, you may have solved the mystery.
“But nowhere do they say where they got the list of “self-identified Republicans” phone numbers from”
It would be pretty easy to do correctly (I don't know if they did, of course). All you'd have to do is to randomly choose, say 5000 numbers, and ask as your first question, “Do you identify with one of the major political parties, and if so, which one?” If they say “Democrat”, you say thank you and hang up. Same with “Independent”, “Green”, or whatever else. If they say “Republican”, you go on and ask the questions. They wouldn't have to have a list of numbers for self-identified Republicans in order to randomly find 2000 who identified as such.
Hey, I'm a country boy, I know all about septic tanks and BS.
The Briggs Initiative in California did in 1978. Plus also banning advocates of gay rights from teaching in public schools, or if I remember correctly, working at any other public school job. In September 1978 polls had it winning 67/31, but it lost 58/46 in November after a concerted effort by gay activists and supporters. All the coastal counties voted “no”, and most of the interior and eastern counties voted “yes”.
Also, that was a question on the survey in question, and 73 % agreed.
I do question the methodology of the survey, which does report results somewhat more extreme than I would expect. Maybe it was of Republicans who primarily get their news from Fox TV or something?
You may be familiar with the old expression: The pot calling the kettle black. I call your troll and raise you one.
That's usually the practice, of course. It just would have been nice to see the complete methodology rather than the terse couple of sentences that they provided. I'm used to seeing a more complete description, and the numbers just seem weird.