« Gordon Brown to Alan Turing: I’m proud to say sorry to a real war hero
Obama’s September 11 Proclamation. Another Act of Treason? »
Talk of Censuring Joe Wilson Heating Up Again
Update below:
Yes, Nancy Pelosi had shelved that option. But it seems that she, and other Democrats, are reconsidering. Behind the scenes, Democrats have been pressuring Wilson to apologize on the House floor, which so far he has refused to do — and his openly unrepentant behavior in the last 24 hours isn’t helping.
Josh Marshall has mixed feelings:
Whatever the politics of it, what Wilson did is simply so outrageous in the context of the history of Congress and really American history, that it really should not be allowed to stand. With all the outrageous stuff that goes on these days, with all the nonsense we chronicle here, this was simply shocking. When I heard the outburst during the speech I was certain it was someone in the galleries. The idea that a sitting member of Congress would scream out calling the president a liar to his face during an address to a joint session of Congress is simply unheard of.People note the raucous sessions of the British House of Commons where there are all manner of hoots and hollers and jeering. And they have different traditions over there. Remember, the Prime Minister is a member of the House of Commons. But I believe it is actually forbidden, even there, to call any member of the House, let alone the PM, a liar (indeed, it’s true).
What I guess it comes down to is that I’m not sure of the politics but I think it’s probably just the right thing to do, notwithstanding the politics.
That link goes to a post by Andrew Sullivan, which I had also seen, last night. He explains why that rule exists:
I see a lot of commentary that compares Joe Wilson’s “You Lie!” outburst with the ruckus that often happens in the House of Commons. But one thing you are not allowed to shout in the Commons is that another speaker is a liar. A lot of circumlocutions evolved to bypass this – “terminological inexactitude” is my favorite (Churchill, of course) – but the ban is for a reason. Once the opposition starts yelling “You lie!” they have essentially abandoned the deliberative process, by questioning the good faith of a speaker. Without an assumption of good faith or a factual rebuttal, just calling someone a liar abolishes the integrity of the debating process. It ends a conversation. And parliament is about conversation.
It’s true that this incident can easily become a distraction from the main issue, which is health care reform of course. But post-outburst restraint works both ways. One would think that Rep. Wilson, having not merely embarrassed himself on the House floor but in truth gotten himself in a lot of trouble (why else do you think the GOP leadership had him apologize so quickly?), would want to walk lightly upon the earth for a bit, let emotions cool. But instead he’s chosen to inflame them by using his own serious mistake as a fundraising tool. That’s a bit much, y’know?
There are people willing to help, though. Jonathan Allen at CQ Politics has some suggestions on how to call the president a liar and get away with it:
For a more socially and politically graceful way to say the president lied during a joint session of Congress, recall the words of a certain junior senator fromllinois in his response to President Bush’s 2008 State of the Union address.
Here’s what then-Sen. Barack Obama said: “And finally, tonight we heard President Bush say that the surge in Iraq is working, when we know that’s just not true.”
Using Obama as the model, here’s Notepad’s three-step guide to accusing the president of lying in a nationally televised address.
- Wait until after the speech. You probably wouldn’t boo at the opera, even if it stunk.
- Say it calmly and succinctly. Cheap insults from close proximity should be reserved for minor-league baseball games.
- Call him a liar without using any form of the word “lie,” which sounds harsh. You can even have fun with it by saying he has defied the gravitational physics of essential cosmic truths.
- Offer your own solution. Epithets don’t make policy.
Update: After I posted the above, I watched a video of Chuck Todd interviewing Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC). Rep. Clyburn told Todd that he is trying to broker a compromise with other Democrats to the effect that Wilson would (if he doesn’t apologize on his own on the House floor) be subject to a congressional resolution of disapproval. This is two steps down from censure. There’s disapproval, a reprimand, and then censure.
62 Responses to “Talk of Censuring Joe Wilson Heating Up Again”
“Many of those States are slitting their own economic throats and we are more than happy to take their business.”
I've lived all over the USA and seen plenty of Blue (Cyanide — brain death) Nation self-destructiveness.
Here in Michigan, the unions and parochial governments (and people still in the Detroit-UAW bubble) still resist post-1960s reality on a reptilian, brain-stem-and-nothing-more retro Dem level. They won't let their fiefdoms shrink or consolidate, they all want to protect (if not pad more) their payrolls and government staffs and power, etc., some of the most reactionary leftists post-1980-election-lesson-unlearned behavior ever. (New York, a state where I've also lived, also suffers from this, greatly.) Meanwhile, in the modern, vital post-1980s USA, the issues have included how to handle all the new and growing businesses, and the problems of growth rather than loss of population and economic vitality and physical condition of not only roads but structures…while dinosaur governments react instinctively by raising taxes.
[shrug] Get ready for reapportionment after the Census to teach the above-50-IQ people more, even after adjusting for lib and Dem Census and redistricting misconduct.
“Kathy often comes in like the human torch, LOL”
Could be she's Shaun truly in drag. (I wonder how Kathy would have been toward Bush two years ago.)
“Oh Sil, be sure to boycott the Toyoda Prius too”
The most innovative thing Detroit-UAW has done to date since 1980, the NUMMI venture with Toyota, is closing in California (Fremont — Bay Area). Maybe GM (new, if not old) could acquire it and make their own hybrids there (the successor to the experimental Volt — a 40-mile electric range for a $40,000 car is no more than an experiment to those of us in the real world).
“Those clowns need to worry about passing health care, climate change and financial legislation, not this trivial BS.”
Actually, all the Dems are seeking now is lunatic (especially Lysenkoist “climate change” House insanity), but at least Obama can hopefully “cap” their lunacy and make them purposeful, even if for the wrong purposes.
Incidentally, Sil, your 70% “compromise” of the ridiculous “83% love the public option” wacko claims by the far-left picketing activists remain removed from the real state of affairs.
This is what Obama's address and the need to channel the Demmies in Congress faces currently, as I've listed before — i.e., the reality right now:
Public option:
Favor, 55%
Oppose, 41%
No opinion, 4%
Favor strongly, 27%
Favor moderately, 28%
Oppose moderately, 11%
Oppose strongly, 30%
No opinion, 4%
Overall Obama (Dems') health care effort (subject and object of his rescue-and-recovery address):
Favor, 48%
Oppose, 51%
No opinion, 2%
Leonidas:
“jobs are moving from north to South”
Or from other places with push factors…
… and how might angry lefties respond?
Other than achieve their goals in Washington, so escape is impractical, that is?
Why, make escape punitive. A recent example:
“The measure would impose a new 35% income surtax (in addition to federal taxes and the existing 10.3% top state rate), and penalize people who leave the state by seizing 55% of assets exceeding $20 million. The money raised would be used to eliminate the state's budget deficit and for purchasing controlling shares in large corporations.”
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23538.html
I don't know that it wouldn't be better just to let it go and show that the Democrats can be the bigger person on this matter. The president seems to have handled it well enough. As for any Republican troublemakers– let THEM define who they are.
Sil, for you to expand your list 44 Democrats opposed to HR 3200
http://drudgereport.com/flashwc.htm
Wouldn't want your boycott to be incomplete.
You may be asking the impossible.
Jeeze! The boycott will only go until Christmas 2009. You guys act like that's forever? We all need to cut back anyway thanks to escalating health care costs and the illegal war Dick Cheney started. So we'll just narrow our list of purchases down to a nub and then only spend in states that announce their support for the public-option between now and Christmas.
Let me reprint the jingle for you. Read each line carefully:
****
“Christmas Cash Ain't Coming To Town”
You better watch out
Or we will not buy
Better not shout
“Obama you lie!”
Christmas cash ain't comin' to town
We're making a list
And checking it twice
Gonna find out where's naughty and nice
Christmas cash aint' [is?] comin' to town
State revenues start shrinking
While others start to rise
What happens to your sweet tax base
Should come as no surprise
Oh!
You better not screw
The People again
One Medmob buck and we'll withold ten
Christmas cash ain't comin' to town..
****
It's just The People's way of bribing policy-making when you boil it all down. The boycott/reward is The People's way of rising up against the uber-rich's ability to sway policy with lobbying money we can't individually raise. When 70% of the public wants something so critical and vital to their wellbeing and their elected leaders won't let them have it due to industry bribing, we enact our own system of bribery via sheer overwhelming numbers.
Oh wait, let me guess…the People financially punishing or rewarding politicians is not OK right? ….lol…you guys are so funny sometimes…
One of your favorite buzzwords is “democracy” whenever you want the herd to go in your direction you chant that like a dinner bell at roundup. Did it escape your attention that democracy means: “Of the People. By the People and For the People” in majority-rules fashion? Majority-rules? 70%? Sinking in yet? Life or death, that's how we see it on our end where the public option literally means losing everything we love or keeping it. You pushed our backs to the wall. Remember where all this started: greed.
[...] Talk of Censuring Joe Wilson Heating Up Again (themoderatevoice.com) [...]
How about some AC/DC?
If your havin' trouble with your head of State
He's givin' you the blues
You wanna keep your money but not in 'is head
Here's what you gotta do -
Pick up the phone
Your not alone
Call us any time
1-800 Liberty (tea party)
I think its about time
Government Done Dirt Cheap
repeat
repeat
repeat
Your havin' problems in your Congressman
You got a corrupt old fart
He's double dealin' with the lobbyist
That's when the scandals start -
Pick up the phone
You're not alone
Or make a social call
Come right in
Remember 2010
He will be gone in the fall
Government Done Dirt Cheap
repeat
repeat
repeat
If you got Queen Nancy but you want her gone
You really hate her guts
She keeps lying to you night and day
Enough to drive you nuts -
Pick up the phone
Call up that crone
It's time you made a stand
All for free I'll be happy to be
Your Huckleberry man
Government Done Dirt Cheap
repeat
repeat
repeat
Townhalls, teaparties, facts
Done Dirt Cheap
Grassroots, fact checks, high public dissatisafaction
Done Dirt Cheap
=D