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Quote of the Day: The Republican Civility Meltdown

Our political Quote of the Day comes from the Washington Post’s prize-winning columnist Eugene Robinson, writing about the Republican civility breakdown that he and several pundits say was visible on several levels during President
Barack Obama’s speech to Congress on health care reform:

House Republicans were particularly ostentatious in showing their disrespect not just for Obama but for the office he holds. The outburst by Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina — who shouted “You lie!” when Obama said his plan would not cover illegal immigrants — was only the most egregious display of contempt. Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, the House minority whip, fiddled with his BlackBerry while the commander in chief was speaking. Other Republicans made a show of waving copies of their own alleged reform plan, which isn’t really a plan at all.

And Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas waved hand-lettered signs at the president, as if he thought he were attending one of those made-for-television town-hall meetings rather than a solemn gathering of the nation’s highest elected officials.

Throughout the speech, there was grumbling, mugging and eye-rolling on the Republican side that was not only undignified but frankly un-American. When I was a correspondent in London, I covered far more raucous sessions of the British House of Commons — that’s how Parliament treats the prime minister, who is the head of government. In the United States, that simply is not how Congress treats the president, who is the head of state.

Congress didn’t heckle Lyndon Johnson like that during the Vietnam War or Richard Nixon during the Watergate scandal. Congress didn’t even show that kind of bitterness and aggression toward George W. Bush, who did lie — specifically, about the intelligence that his administration relied on to justify an unnecessary war that has cost 4,300 American lives and enough money to fund Obama’s health-care proposals for a decade.

Robinson says Wilson’s apology sounded “insincere..a variant of the “mistakes were made” dodge” and that Republicans are all too sincere about what they’re saying.

He then offers this explanation about a process that is unfolding that may not alarm some Republicans who remain loyal to and love their party, but alarms and scares off some others who were once Republicans and/or who split their tickets voting for a less strident and more policy focused incarnation of the GOP:

Last November’s election so wounded the GOP that the nation is now suffering collateral damage. The Republicans who were punished at the polls for the failures of the Bush years were those in the most evenly contested districts, which meant they tended to be relatively moderate. Those who represent solidly Republican districts were safe, and their greatest fear isn’t being defeated by a Democrat next fall but being challenged by a primary opponent who’s even more of a right-wing yahoo.

There are quite a few Democratic pragmatists in Congress — which is why health-care reform is being worked over so thoroughly by the Blue Dogs. In the Republican ranks, especially in the House, pragmatists are few and ideologues are legion. Many of them probably believe the nonsense they spout about creeping socialism and an urgent threat to America As We Know It. But it’s still nonsense. The ideologues’ sincerity just makes this toxic, rejectionist rhetoric more dangerous.

But he see’s Obama as having delivered a pointed bottom line message to those Republicans who are anchored in ideology and what he calls rejectionist rhetoric:

And he drew one bright line in the sand: Throw spitballs all you want, but this will be done.

Putting aside any political party labels, ideological labels or making any judgment about who is to blame more or less, Robinson’s analysis leads to one conclusion — and one question.

CONCLUSION:
The era of polarization is about to get a lot uglier.

QUESTION: Which side will discredit itself among the bulk of voters the most? (To the survive goes the political spoils..)

  • Rambie
    "The era of polarization is about to get a lot uglier. "

    I'm afraid you're all too correct.
  • DLS
    The predictable, ridiculous hype obviously makes it uglier.
  • vwcat
    Sadly, all civility and decency has disappeared. A sign of a society falling apart.
    The people who use to say we lost our edge, ect., I would think hyperbolic. But, when a society no longer views it's fellow countrymen as being all one and united, when you lose your civility to your neighbor and when you refuse to see your leader as legit because he is simply of another party, and when borish behavior is rewarded, it's a sign of our society rotting.
  • navigator
    The conclusion and bottom-line question of this article appear valid, and they are important.

    Congressman Wilson's outburst strikes me as uncivil. The Democrats "boos" at President Bush's 2005 State Of the Union speech also seemed uncivil to me. The comparison of President GHW Bush to a rotting fish at the 1992 Democratic Convention seemed uncivil to me.

    Robinson's headline seemed a bit misleading. If the Republicans experienced a civility "meltdown" as a result of Wilson's shout, then the Democrats melted down years ago and are beginning to go into a gaseous state at this point.

    Both parties need to behave, and voters need to insist upon honesty and civility by making the dishonest or uncivil politician's career very short.

    Was Wilson's outburst uncivil? I think so. Were President's Obama's comments dishonest? I think that either some of them were, or that he is extremely misguided.
  • DaGoat
    Throughout the speech, there was grumbling, mugging and eye-rolling on the Republican side that was not only undignified but frankly un-American.

    Give me a break, now the left is milking this for all it's worth. A few weeks ago we were told protesting was un-American, now rolling your eyes during a presidential address is un-American. We need the sergeant-at-arms to start cracking down on facial expressions.

    And sorry, the polarization isn't any worse than its been for several years, it's just that the left has finally noticed it.
  • JSpencer
    The reason polarization is so bad is because some people believe that protecting an ideology is more important than reality. Not sure how you fix that particular problem, which in part has it's roots in a lack of maturity and a willingness to dispense with standards.
  • Anna
    I completely agree that your quote from the article is over the top as far as the "un-American" bit is concerned (I think we can agree that it was undignified). Be that as it may, I don't recall anyone of consequence on the Democratic side claiming that protesting is "un-American" although I seem to recall references to people against the Iraq war as unpatriotic and un-American. Heck, America was founded on protesting!

    As to the polarization, it's not so much that it's worse as it appears more visceral (seriously, how many people who despised George W Bush on the left showed up outside his speaking events carrying guns?! I'd bet dollars to donuts none.). What does it say about America when people who disagree can't at least be civil and respectful of each other? Aren't we ultimately all supposed to be in this together; united we stand, divided we fall and all that? Yes, there are those on both sides that are to blame for this so those that insist on acting like children should step out of the way to let those willing to act like adults work to get things done.
  • DLS
    While the ability to comprehend and reason remains greatly absent on the Left, not unnnoticed by the rest of us is the divisiveness created by the liberal Dems, increasingly, this year. Also not neglected at least by some of us is the nature of things political since the 1980 elections, when the (real) status quo (a phrase misused intentionally by the Left about health care "reform") about Big Government and the assumptions set in place about liberalism in the USA for decades was no longer robotically accepted, but in fact was repudiated. There has been resentment and divisiveness about this ever since then.
  • DaGoat
    Be that as it may, I don't recall anyone of consequence on the Democratic side claiming that protesting is "un-American" although I seem to recall references to people against the Iraq war as unpatriotic and un-American.

    'Un-American' attacks can't derail health care debate

    By Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer

    http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unameric...

    Your other comments are well taken. Both parties need to take the proverbial logs out of their own eyes.
  • Anna
    Thanks, on that we both agree. If I may nitpick for a moment, though. I went to the link you supplied on the "un-American" thing and have a small quibble. I'm no great fan of Pelosi but a direct quote from the article is "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." and, to me, it's a bit of a stretch to go from the quote to the conclusion that it means that protesting is un-American. I do, however, think that having un-American in the title, even in quotes, is stupid. I do think that drowning out opposing views is just another example of the deterioration of civility.
  • JSpencer
    "While the ability to comprehend and reason remains greatly absent on the Left " (blah blah blah)

    DLS, if those idiotic quips you endlessly indulge in are related to a medical problem then you have my sympathy. If not... then why even pretend you care about what goes on here?

  • DLS
    Too close for comfort? Noted.
  • mlhradio
    >>Give me a break, now the left is milking this for all it's worth. A few weeks ago we were told protesting was un-American, now rolling your eyes during a presidential address is un-American. We need the sergeant-at-arms to start cracking down on facial expressions. And sorry, the polarization isn't any worse than its been for several years, it's just that the left has finally noticed it.

    I suspect there is some truth to what you say - as I was reading this thread I had to switch off from MSNBC, because they had Jesse Jackson on the TV, expounding how every little thing that the republicans has been doing (including the Joe "The Liar" Wilson outburst) is really racist. Everything. Racism.

    Please.

    The outrage over Joe "The Liar" Wilson's faux-pas was entirely justified...for a day. He apologized, Obama accepted the apology, and said "Let's move on". In fact, a huge theme of Obama's entire speech, not to mention his whole over-arching administration, is getting beyond petty politicization and bickering and find common ground to move forward. I doubt that the reactionaries on the far right will ever embrace that, but I would hope that more so-called "progressives" on the far left would at least give it a try.

    Clue to the far left who are still digging up dirt on Joe "The Liar" Wilson and poking him in the face: Villifying him yesterday (Thursday) was fine, but continuing to pound at him over and over again only plays into his hands as a victim who goes from being tsk-tsked by his fellow conservatives to receiving sympathy for the heavy-handed dogpiling. Drop it, move on, and focus on pushing back against the lie that illegal immigrants will be covered by the health care bill instead of focusing on the politician.
  • kathykattenburg
    1. Democrats booing George W. Bush at his 2005 SOTU is uncivil and disrespectful. No question.
    2. Eric Cantor Blackberrying while Obama addresses a joint session of Congress, eyes rolling, mugging, etc., is disrespectful and rude.
    3. Joe Wilson, member of Congress from South Carolina, disrupting the President's speech by screaming out, as the President is speaking, "You lie! Lies!" is obviously rude and disrespectful and uncivil, but it also goes well beyond those characterizations.Think about this for a minute. Booing the President (or anyone) says "I disagree with you. I dislike what you're saying. I don't want to hear what you're saying." Engaging in inappropriate activities like texting on a Blackberry says, "I'm bored, I don't care about what you're saying, I don't need to listen to you." But Obama certainly would not have known that Cantor was doing that unless he looked at a video afterward or someone told him. It's rude, but it's not disruptive. Same with eye-rolling and mugging.

    But what does screaming "You lie! Lies!" as Pres. Obama speaks to a joint session of Congress say? It's not just the words, it's the venue. In my view, that action says, "You are not worth even the ceremonial respect and observance of protocol given to every president in U.S. history at solemn occasions like a joint session of Congress." It expresses contempt. It says, "You may be the president, but you have no legitimacy, you shouldn't be there, you are a usurper, you are not owed any respect as the person who occupies the office of the President."

    After Wilson's outburst, when Rahm Emanuel went up to the Republicans sitting around him, Dana Milbank reported his exact words. He said, "No president has ever been treated that way. My advice to you is that he apologize quickly. You have my number."

    "No president has ever been treated that way." I'm no huge fan of Rahm Emanuel, but in this he was 100 percent correct. "No president has ever been treated that way." That is the line that Wilson crossed. And no counter-example that anyone here has given crosses that line.
  • Leonidas
    You forgot Harry Reid Kathy, but I'm glad to see you put the actions of Democrats in 2005 in the same list.

    "You lie! Lies!" is obviously rude and disrespectful and uncivil, but it also goes well beyond those characterizations.Think about this for a minute. Booing the President (or anyone) says "I disagree with you. I dislike what you're saying. I don't want to hear what you're saying." Engaging in inappropriate activities like texting on a Blackberry says, "I'm bored, I don't care about what you're saying, I don't need to listen to you." But Obama certainly would not have known that Cantor was doing that unless he looked at a video afterward or someone told him. It's rude, but it's not disruptive. Same with eye-rolling and mugging.


    Again I mention that you forgot to mention harry Reid calling Bush a liar.
  • kathykattenburg
    Again I mention that you forgot to mention harry Reid calling Bush a liar.

    Did he call Bush a liar as Bush was giving a speech before a joint session of Congress?
  • Leonidas
    "You lie! Lies!" is obviously rude and disrespectful and uncivil, but it also goes well beyond those characterizations.Think about this for a minute. Booing the President (or anyone) says "I disagree with you. I dislike what you're saying. I don't want to hear what you're saying." Engaging in inappropriate activities like texting on a Blackberry says, "I'm bored, I don't care about what you're saying, I don't need to listen to you." But Obama certainly would not have known that Cantor was doing that unless he looked at a video afterward or someone told him. It's rude, but it's not disruptive. Same with eye-rolling and mugging.


    So how would you rate Harry Reid calling Bush a liar on National TV Kathy?

    As the leader of any party in either House of Congress ever called a sitting President a liar on national TV before? or was that also unprecedneted? Also do you think it was inappropriate, both Reid's remarks and the fact that he never apologized for them? Shouldn't Reid have given an apology, apology that Wilson was man enough to do? Shouldn't Democrats have asked Reid to give one, something the GOP did do in regards to Wilson?
  • ElZagna
    Oh, come on`, Leonidas! These false equivalences are getting tiring.
  • kathykattenburg
    And again, Leonidas, as I asked you a couple of minutes ago, did Harry Reid call Pres. Bush a liar as Bush was addressing a joint session of Congress? Did he scream, "You lie!" as Pres. Bush was speaking before a joint session of Congress?

    I believe that politicians accuse each other of lying all the time. But to my knowledge no sitting member of Congress has screamed "You lie!" as the President addressed a joint session of Congress.

    It would also be nice to see a link to this Harry Reid quote. Exact words and context are always really nice to have.

    Finally, your and others' continuing attempt to trivialize or excuse an unprecedented, shockingly disrespectful and inappropriate disruption of a presidential address to a joint session of Congress by bringing up every ordinary example of rudeness you can find, is disgraceful. It's disgraceful, Leonidas. It's shameful. It's contemptible.
  • Rambie
    Answer the question Leonidas, "Did he call Bush a liar as Bush was giving a speech before a joint session of Congress?"
  • JSpencer
    DLS, I thought maybe it was some varient of Tourette's syndrome in which you were compelled to type bizarre and inappropriate comments. You mean you do that of your own volition?

    Btw . . . . Leonidas . . . . I believe you are being paged.
  • CStanley
    People might rank the varying degrees of incivility differently, and the venue is just one criteria. Some of you are holding fast to the idea that heckling in that venue was beyond the pale- personally I still think it was far worse when Pete Stark on the House floor said that the GOP was helping to send kids to Iraq to get blown up for Bush's amusement. The venue not quite as much of a problem there for a vitriolic comment, but the content is far worse than just calling someone a liar. That's just my opinion though- I'm not going to sit here and insist that everyone must agree with me about the depths to which that statement sunk were a low point in our political incivility.

    Note that 'equivalencies' were only raised here after certain bloggers began hyping a blurted out comment for which the offender apologized as THE WORST EXAMPLE OF INCIVILITY EVER DIRECTED TOWARD A PRESIDENT AND AN ACT OF UTMOST SIGNIFICANCE WHICH MUST NOT BE FORGOTTEN BECAUSE IT IS AN UNPRECEDENTED LOW WHICH MUST HAVE BEEN MOTIVATED BY RACISM.

    Stick with a rational perspective- it was an act in bad taste, unprecedented to a slight degree (I don't actually see why it's worse than a mass of people booing, which is just as disruptive and disrespectful) because of the venue.

    But stick to calling the guy out on it, accepting that Obama has accepted his apology- and you won't have people pushing back against your irrational hyperbole about the heinous nature of the act.
  • Leonidas
    Did he call Bush a liar as Bush was giving a speech before a joint session of Congress?"


    No.

    Now answer mine

    Has the leader of any party in either House of Congress ever called a sitting President a liar on national TV before? or was that also unprecedneted?

    Also do you think it was inappropriate, both Reid's remarks and the fact that he never apologized for them?

    Shouldn't Reid have given an apology, apology that Wilson was man enough to do?

    Shouldn't Democrats have asked Reid to give one, something the GOP did do in regards to Wilson?

    I answered my question, now would any of you answered mine, which I asked first, and which remain unanswered, and please do so without a wimp out whinny little justification of "Oh, our precious wittle democratic Seantor did it on national TV but not the floor of the house". (I hope the condescending tone translates into my typing, probably not well enough).

    So answer the questions.
  • StockBoySF
    "Republican civility" became an oxymoron during last year's campaign as conservatives at their campaign rallies started shouting threats to Obama and calling him all sorts of names. The conservative leaders did nothing until the Secret Service stepped in.
  • Leonidas
    "Republican Civillity" (see "Democratic Civility")

    Different party same deal.
  • DLS
    Same deal, predictably different reaction, though.

    It's a shame that more didn't just put Wilson and the sign-holders and the legislation-wavers in context.

    Let the kiddies hope for a stop by the Dems' health-care bus tour at Fort Sumter; otherwise, grow up.
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