G.W. Bush: The Real Jimmy Doolittle of ‘Nam?
In some ways, I had to suppress a bit of a nostalgic smile when I saw my friend Ed Morrissey at Hot Air picking off the scab of an old wound from the 2004 presidential campaign today. You see, Ed and I have been agreeing on so much lately when it comes to health care reform and dire economic news that people tend to forget that we used to fight tooth and claw, hammer and tong over many issues prior to the age of Obama. This time, though, Ed takes the bait of Bernard Goldberg who is attempting to polish up George W. Bush’s battle credentials before his memoirs come out. The subject? You probably guessed it already… Bush’s time in the Texas Air National Guard and his amazing ability to avoid combat service in Vietnam.
He first starts in on the botched Rather report, but then turns his guns on Mary Mapes.
CBS did an internal investigation that discredited the memos and caused the network to fire Mapes. Buried in the report, however, is an admission that has not been noticed until now — which is that Mapes knew the basis of her story was an outright lie from the beginning
You can read the Goldberg piece for yourself, but it doesn’t shed any new light. And while the wording is clever, I must correct Ed on the key point here. Mapes didn’t “know” that anything was “an outright lie” when doing the report. What she “knew” was that in 1999 and again in 2004 there were a couple of people willing to make statements to support the Bush side of the story. Do you even see any names listed up front as to who these sterling witnesses were? You’ll have to do some digging.
But, of course, we heard the same thing in 2004 – at least those bothering to listen did. And the same names from Texas keep popping up. Mysteriously, (and I’m just sure it’s all one big coincidence) they all seem to lead back to the same group of Republican operatives who later gave rise to the swiftboaters who tried to destroy John Kerry’s military record for political gain, going so far as to enlist the testimony of one individual who received the same medal as Kerry on the same day for related activity while never questioning his merit for such an honor.
But to the bottom line, here’s the new pitch on the tale: supposedly George W. Bush volunteered – nay, practically begged – to be allowed to go fly combat missions in Vietnam, but he lacked enough flight hours to qualify and was kept on the bench. (He apparently continued to lack them for the entire war.)
Goldberg, to his credit, includes another piece of relevant data which doesn’t appear in the quoted sections of text at Hot Air, and it’s well worth another look here.
It is also true, however, that in his 1968 application to join the Texas Air National Guard Bush was asked if he wanted to go overseas and he checked the box that said “do not volunteer.” But as the Washington Post reported on July 28, 1999: “Bush said in an interview that he did not recall checking the box.
Sometimes you just have to apply the smell test to a story. We had plenty of people in my family who served in ‘Nam and the stories were common as water. Those of you who are old enough will doubtless remember them as well. The military was working fervently to get enough people to fill all the billets in that war and, yes, that included pilots. Rules were often “bent” in the interest of getting the mission accomplished. What makes more sense to you? The idea that somebody from a family as powerful as George H.W. Bush’s couldn’t get the extra flight training hours to get him a spot in a wing being deployed to the war? That he was kept back on that basis with no opportunity for combat duty?
Or does it make more sense that the guy who somehow got head of the line privileges for entry into the TANG (which many people used as an out to avoid combat duty) and checked the “do not volunteer” box was actually avoiding the firing line? When you want a change in your duty status, the military has a set procedure for such requests. You put in a chit asking for a change in duty. It doesn’t mean that you will automatically get anything you request, but the military has to accept and record the request. Where is Bush’s chit if he was so all fired determined to go fly combat missions? Ed mentions that Bush openly admitted to not wanting to go into combat as a grunt on the ground, but doesn’t remind us that the only hard paper record we have of his intentions was that damning check box.
This seems like yet another sad attempt to polish up a stench laden story that has more holes in it than swiss cheese gone bad. And much of it is still being foisted off on us by members of our armed services who chose to attempt to discredit the military service of somebody who actually DID volunteer to go into combat in one of the most dangerous billets in Vietnam. (The river boat warriors.) It’s enough to make your blood boil.
UPDATE: An alert reader e-mails the more obvious question which I should have asked originally.
If he was so interested in volunteering for combat flight duty, why go through the trouble of getting into the air national guard? (Much harder to do.) Why not just enlist in the air wing of the regular service branches already flying over there?
Smell test says….
stinky socks on top of rotten eggs.
27 Responses to “G.W. Bush: The Real Jimmy Doolittle of ‘Nam?”
Bush asked (not begged) his commander about volunteering for active duty but was told because his lack of hours and the plane he flew he wouldn't qualify. He didn't try and volunteer he asked about the possibility. In early 72 he had 336 hours and needed 500 to qualify so no he couldn't of gotten enough flight time in a plane that could/would be used when you add in that we were withdrawing from VN.
Yeah, and Mapes did such a good job fact-checking? Is that JShaw's point? And the Swift Boaters. Weren't they fifty-plus SBoat commanders who actually did a full tour on the dangerous missions instead of getting three fake Purple Hearts in three months like Kerry did? And if they aren't fake, why didn't Kerry release his Navy records as he said he would?
Just like Teddy's wish to have the law electing the next Senator after his demise in office rescinded, because, of course, Mitt Romney was Gov & might appoint a Republican. It was, but now his dying wish is to change the law back again….what a fraud. Total complete hypocrisy, and Teddy dies the way he lived….
Jazz posts an honest blog for once & what happens, EEllis & daveinboca, rightwing scumbags that they are, crap on J. Kerry & T. Kennedy instead of admitting that GWB was THE draft dodging scumbag, that we know is the truth! Karl Rove fed those FAKE documents to Mapes & Rather because he knew that the fake paper would out last the real truth. Why do you idiots even come to a site with “Moderate” on the name except to troll, & I notice you're always here.
Dave, callete su boca por favor.
daveinboca ,
Kerry commanded a Fast Patrol Craft (PCF), also known as a “Swift boat” through the nastiest waters of the war, get over it. The stack of fruit salid on his chest was assigned by the Navy. STFU.
Pardon me, I'm only 43, but I don't think taking an aluminum-hulled boat thru enemy waters is the fantasy you wish to make of it simply because a liberal actually did it. and that is the extent of your patriotism to imagine. Anything brave MUST have an (R) next to a name. Damn you Torry traitor.
“right wing scumbags”
Nice, do you kiss your”mother with that mouth?
“Karl Rove fed those FAKE documents to Mapes & Rather “
Dude your tinfoil hat is slipping. You better fix it before the CIA mind control kicks in.
“instead of admitting that GWB was THE draft dodging scumbag”
I don't deny that Bush joining the NG because he didn't want to go to VN. I wouldn't state it as a fact either because I don't know. What is true that even if he did want to volunteer for active duty with the air force, (as referenced by Jazz) after being in the NG, he was not and would not of been qualified because of flight hours and the plane he was trained on. By the time he would of been able to train on a plane that would be deployable we would not of been deploying units to VN. Remember we were done by 73.
“Why do you idiots even come to a site with “Moderate” on the name except to troll”
What is moderate about your foaming at the mouth nutcase self? Really though what is so partisan about what I posted? I gave a little info to correct what I felt was a little misleading in the original post.
I didn't make a big thing or post an opinion just a small correction and for that I'm a “right wing scumbag”? Get over it already.
Kerry was distinguished in Vietnam says the Navy. Who the heck are you?
Obviously the aforementioned documents were fake, as almost pre-proven, or rather -.25hrs before the broadcast was over… sure, smart eye. Go on with that.
The bottom line is that one took an aluminum boat directly into combat with a entire command under him commending and supporting him to this very day. One turned a thin-hulled vessel into enemy fire, survived, won! And got multiple citations from the Navy for doing so; the other didn't. Simple.
You may as well be spitting on General Washington and all other veterans too. Unpatriotic. Immoral. Leave the medals on his chest and get with your issues of civil thought. Torry jerks.
@DAVEINBOCA
ROFLMAO
Like Maples and Rather, who your fellow wingnuts hate, you forget to mention a Silver Star.
Now just three Purple Hearts without any firefights and a Silver Star is worthy of derision, like driving a hilo while serving in logistics. W didn't even finish out his Guard duty, no Silver Star or enemy fire…
Interesting…apparently some of the right wing posters on this thread think it is okay to attack and question the service of a medaled veterans, but only if they have a D behind their name.
We shouldn't investigate CIA torture, but it is okay to pick apart a veterans Silver Star?
It made me sick when liberals attacked McCain's service and it make me sick when these idiots attack Kerry's. It really was sickening to read liberal and conservative attacks on Powell…depending on whatever issue was being debated.
Show some respect.
I agree Rudi, they spit on every one of those medals and tried to tear down his whole service record, and every person on the boat that day speaks so highly of what happened, even the Republicans on the boat where amazed that they turned into the machine guns, Kerry was first off the boat chasing the kid with the live B-40 and took him out as he was running round the hooch, they all knew he was armed too well and just needed some range to take out the boat, so Kerry took him out. What a coward! Phuck you unpatriotic torys.
What matters here most is “did not recall checking the box,” not to mention the practice in general of “did not recall,” itself a nose-wrinkler these days.
Tom Ridge has been controversial, but at least he is moving in the majority direction here, not just likely trying to profit from what else, a book deal (and an “insider” book deal), but Bush-bashing and “washing the Bush off him” to get in good graces once more inside Washington someday, I bet.
“We shouldn't investigate CIA torture, but it is okay to pick apart a veterans Silver Star?”
We shouldn't politicize torture and the far-left pathological hatred for Bush-Cheney.
I'm not worrying whether or not Kerry exploited his Silver Star (and started his nomination acceptance speech well with “Reporting for duty!”). The account of the Swift Boats is there for anyone to review (as I did in conjunction with the story of the Seawolves, whose missions were to aid those boats and boaters). The rivers were full of ambushes and snipers along the banks and the boats could be also attacked by cables (which could decapitate crew members) or stopped and trapped by dropped logs, any of this at pretty much any time, and the boaters didn't have the “luxury” of daylight missions only.
“I do not recall”, smacks of Reagan's “I don't remember” Though Reagan in hindsight was probably losing cognitive function during the IC hearings. For something as important as being billeted in war time, one would think he'd remember. Then again this is George W Bush we're talking about. I bet GHWB could remember what he had to eat for breakfast the day his Avenger went down in the sea.
DLS- Unless the left consists of 70+% of Americans its not just the left who despised Bush/Cheney. What was Cheney's recent approval rating –19%? That's just far right die hards.
“What was Cheney's recent approval rating –19%? That's just far right die hards.”
To me that's a stretch of “far,” but that word (like “wing”) is loosely defined, I admit.
That so many of us were disgusted with specifics (yes, waterboarding is torture; yes, while Congress playing games, the White House didn't have to deliberately play cooperation-withholding games the way it did, either), doesn't mean we don't recognize a revanchist political attack when it is happening.
Obama is siding with the far left (as he did publicly to push the awful climate bill, and with health care). Someone else has noted that it may be a sop to the far left (“public option or nothing”) before he makes concessions on health care (including with the public option). But this currently reeks of more siding with the far Left as has happened in other ways this year.
Flipping their respective VN war records was perhaps the greatest PR accomplishment of all time. It was a testament to the gullibility of the American public and what you can do by repeating absolute BS long enough and loud enough.
Bush dodged combat via connections, Kerry actually served in combat, was shot at and killed people, end of story. There is no right or left side to this, that's what happened.
Thats hardly fair expecting someone to remember something from decades past. But that's why they make you sign a document, so no one has to wonder.
[...] G.W. Bush: The Real Jimmy Doolittle of ‘Nam? (themoderatevoice.com) [...]
The minimum obligation of service in the Air National Guard, at the time, was Six Years. Bush did not serve it. It is not possible to polish crap.
haha,Yeah, would be funny if John Adams, when pressed failed to remember signing off on teh Constitution. Considering I was a freshman in college at the time, I am grateful I can remember that far back. Mostly I just remember drooling over Fawn Hall, and laughing at the fact that John Poindexter looked like a “poindexter”. For the rest of us, it's called history.
@ Father TIme, I was under the impression GWB skipped out of ANG early ( thus not having enough air time) to go work on someone's campaign.
@DLS- Given the fact that our nation is one of the most industrially developed and least “green” I think it is imperative we get on the stick vis a vis global climate change. Global Warming is a misnomer- it doesn't neccessarily mean your particular area is getting hotter. There's 58 million square miles of this planet affected, hence “Global”. You think our setting off tons of nukes in the 40s and 50s , along with Russia and CHina had no cumulative effect,along with the polution? There's an area in the Pacific Ocean that is the equivalent ofa landfill, plastic junk that's just floating around killing wildlife.
“The minimum obligation of service in the Air National Guard, at the time, was Six Years. Bush did not serve it. It is not possible to polish crap.”
That's just stupid. At the time nobody cared. They were over enlisted after withdrawing from Vietnam and they would let anyone go for any reason. He was a pilot of an obsolete plane with to little time left to even start to retrain, why would they of kept him? I don't give him huge props, thou being a jet fighter pilot is cool, but there is no skeleton in that closet.
“,Yeah, would be funny if John Adams, when pressed failed to remember signing off on teh Constitution. “
Well ask John if he remembered every checkmark on every form.
Bush joined the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group of the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968, during the Vietnam War.
LOL They weren't withdrawing in 1968. Seems Tet began on January 31, 1968. Ke sahn wasn't at picnic in 1968. By joining the guard in 1968 W was able to avoid Vietnam for 6 years…
You really are not reading. It's reported that he tried to vol. in april of 72. At that time he had some 360 hours in the 102 which did not qualify as he needed 500. In addition they were no longer adding new 102 units in VN. The 102 was being shifted to ANG units only and was out of service by 76. So we started pulling out of VN in 73 to be quallified he would of needed to switch planes and get 500 hours by 73. Not possible.
You really are not reading. It's reported that he tried to vol. in april of 72.
But his service was suppose to start in 1968. Why did he hide from the war at the height of the action in 1968. Volunteering after almost nobody was being sent smell like crap…
EEllis–
Uh no… the National Guard, air or otherwise, did not let people out early because Vietnam was ending. I served then and they were defiantly not letting active duty people out either. If someone had actually served a full tour in Vietnam, they might have let them out a little early, but only a month or two. Reserves and Guard, never. I lived it, I was there, maybe I was, as you say, “stupid”, but I was certainly THERE.