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Celebrating the ‘Social Collective’
My conservative tripwires and my ability to find common cause with George Will nothwithstanding, I think there’s also much to consider — and agree with — in this column.
20 Responses to “Celebrating the ‘Social Collective’”
Angry debate over evolution in 3… 2…
It appears the Disqus server error is isolated to Joe's Dick Cheney Marathon thread.
I don't see much connection between the right/ left political distinctions since some of the most noteworthy social Darwinists were the liberals who embraced eugenics. Social Darwinism can be used to support a variety of political ideas.
[citation needed]
Was that directed at me, Ryan?
Yes, CS. Guess that wasn't as obvious as I'd hoped.
(Specifically on the liberal eugenics stuff.)
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2006/03/04/br…
Are you really unfamiliar with the American Eugenics movement? It's amazing how little people are aware of that ugly part of our history.
Thanks for the link. I guess the liberals have jumped from birth control (generally speaking) being mandatory to optional. Still waiting for the conservatives to make a similar leap from “forbidden” though.
LOL, cute. Other than personal objections to birth control though, what specific conservative groups want to forbid birth control by fiat?
“what specific conservative groups want to forbid birth control by fiat?”
Um … the Catholic Church?
That's strictly voluntary- no one is trying to legislate that belief on others who don't accept the Church's teachings on it (for that matter, most Catholics unfortunately don't even follow it or bother to try to understand it.)
CS — You're right, but your question was “what specific conservative groups WANT to forbid birth control by fiat?”
I saw “want” as the operative word. And I suspect (having been a Catholic and read much about Catholic leaders' comments) that there are some in prominent positions in the Catholic Church who “want” to do just what you indicate. They may not be visibly seeking or lobbying for it — at this time — but they would applaud it, if it happened. I suppose the difference in our conclusions is between an active and passive “want.”
Whatever, Pete. I'm a lifelong Catholic who does walk the walk on that issue and I have a lot of friends who do as well, and have known my fair share of priests- yet have never encountered the attitude you describe, so I have no idea where you're getting that from. If absolutely no one is publicly expressing that opinion, you feel you can read minds and determine that they would like to do so?
The Republican Party. (Yes, of Texas.) http://www.texasgop.org/site/PageServer?pagenam… – it's in their 2008 platform.
I don't see it in there, but if it is and I'm missing it then I'll grant you that one. I see a lot of stuff that I can understand people objecting to in there.
The morning-after pill line was in there. If you generalize to post-conception methods then there's about a page of abortion stuff.
Well, that's really just an extreme anti-abortion platform though, defining right to life from conception. I thought you meant that they were advocating bans of condoms and other actual preconception birth control methods. I thought that would be kind of odd because really the Catholic Church is the only major sect that I know of that even prohibits birth control, and Texas is highly Protestant/evangelical, not Catholic.
” … you feel you can read minds and determine that they would like to do so?”
“… the Catholic Church is the only major sect that I know of that even prohibits birth control … “
CS — Both cites are from you. What am I missing? I assumed that Church leaders who prohibit birth control among Church members would welcome a similar prohibition in the larger society, should such a prohibition be written into law. Is it really that big a leap of “faith” … so to speak … to make this assumption?
Sure, I suppose I'd agree with that. The reason it makes a bit of difference in my opinion to point out that the Church isn't lobbying for it though is that I believe that shows an appropriate restraint of the boundaries between religiously informed moral principles and the law.
Fair enough. Thanks for working this through.