The Vileness Of Grandmother Palin
I’ve had a jolly good time in recent days sharing the White Trash Chronicles, the latest and the greatest from presidential wannabe Sarah Palin and her extended family of questionable characters. But this latest post isn’t funny at all, because the Killa From Wasilla has crossed the line from wingnuttery to vile.
I had the misfortune to be involved in a pretty wrenching divorce many years ago that involved young and impressionable children, and have been privy to a number of others, as well. As much as the spouses may war — and the mother of my children and I did — there is one inviolable rule as far as I’m concerned: Whether a parent or grandparent, you never speak ill of a parent’s ability to love and care for their offspring if there is any chance they may hear or read that.
There are at least a couple of reasons for this: Those youngsters can be awfully impressionable, and it is up to the children of divorce to decide for themselves who their parents are and not have bilious views shoved down their throats.
But Grandmother Palin, as we know, is a rule breaker from way back. So it should come as no surprise that her latest salvo in the breakup of daughter Bristol and Levi Johnston is to very publicly state that Levi doesn’t give a rip about the well-being of baby Trip.
Chances are that Trip is going to be one screwed-up kid anyhow considering that he will be growing up in the dark shadow of a Grandmommy Dearest. But I cannot imagine the damage it will do when he is old enough to read about — if he is not already hearing about — the awful things being said around the house concerning his father.
In any event, we know that Grandmother Palin loves her family very much because she constantly uses them, including special-needs son Trig, as stage props to further her own political agenda.
And we are well aware of her by-now-familiar shtick asserting how important it is to take responsibility for one’s actions and castigate those who by her right-wing calculus aren’t American enough, or whatever.
But for her to additionally claim that Bristol, who as a post-adolescent appears to have had an “active” social life, has been the responsible one in her fling with Levi is downright demented.
Meanwhile, the Woman of a Thousand Lies, beginning with the canard that she consulted with her family before accepting McCain’s invitation to destroy his campaign, has added yet another one:
Having claimed that she skipped a major GOP fundraiser so she could be in Alaska for the closing days of the legislative session, she has decided to spend much of the closing days of the legislative session in Indiana shilling for pro-lifers.
At least she is covering herself in glory with her pick to be Alaska attorney general: A gay loathing misogynist who blames the rise in domestic violence on equal rights laws.
And yes. Lest there be any doubt, John McCain hates Grandmother Palin.
Shaun Mullen is a former The Moderate Voice columnist. Over a long career with newspapers, this award-winning editor and reporter covered the Vietnam War, O.J. Simpson trials, Clinton impeachment circus and coming of Osama bin Laden, among many other big stories. He blogs at Kiko’s House.
98 Responses to “The Vileness Of Grandmother Palin”
How does her having sex with the father of her child in Palin's house lead to, “Bristol, who as a post-adolescent appears to have never met a penis that she didn’t want to impale herself on”?
You are a self-denying, self-loathing, lying piece of shit for trying to change the narrative of what you said to pretend you didn't say what you did, because you know there was no excuse for that attack.
I must have missed the part where it then becomes appropriate to imply slutty behavior on the part of that teenager who is just trying to sort out her life and sexuality.
Right. And all I'm saying is you're a piss poor moral arbiter, because, well, you are.
What StockBoySF said.
DaGoat wrote:
Where I differ with the left is their eagerness to trash Palin's family, something that started almost immediately after her nomination.
Sarah Palin is trashing her own family — in public. Is the public supposed to ignore that?
CStanley wrote:
If Palin is wrong to speak publicly about these matters, then we're just as wrong to keep it on the front pages.
Palin is not just speaking publicly about her private family business, she is giving interviews to newspapers and national magazines about it. Indeed, she is authorizing her official spokespeople to give public statements about her private family business to national publications.
You don't call People magazine and tell them, for publication, that the boy your daughter was going to marry and the father of her child, was a “mistake” and that your daughter now realizes her former boyfriend and the father of her child was a “mistake” and that he doesn't care about his son, etc., without knowing that everyone is going to be talking about it the next day. What is People magazine for, Christine?
… the last I recall the liberals are the ones who generally argue that character issues aren't relevant, and only policy should factor into political debate.
She fails on that ground, too.
So, phrases like White trash are appropriately impassioned political debate terms?
Okay, you've lost me here.
Whatever 'vileness' Palin might be guilty of here is at least explained by her emotional concerns for her daughter (even if misplaced emotion is preventing her from seeing the forest for the trees in how this could hurt her grandchild.)
It hurts Bristol, too, not just the child. It hurts Bristol *because* it hurts the child. And it hurts Bristol because she just broke up with a young man she was seriously in love with (presumably), and it takes a long time to get over the breakup of a serious relationship, so I'm guessing that Bristol probably still has feelings for Levi, and he for her, because most people cannot turn around on a dime and shut these feelings off like a faucet. Bristol's mother is saying vicious things, *in public,* to gossip magazines, about Bristol's former boyfriend and fiance and the father of her child and a young man for whom she is still trying to sort out very complicated feelings *in public*. She is hurting her daughter, and whatever her “emotional” reasons for doing so, she is still hurting her daughter and she should know that she is hurting her daughter because she is a grown woman and has been a mother for a long time.
As you might gather (and have done before now), I have no sympathy for Sarah Palin's “emotional state” at all. My sympathy is entirely for Levi and Bristol, and especially for Bristol, because this is her own mother doing this to her. I recognize that it's kind of odd in a way that I should identify so strongly with Bristol, given that I have much more in common with Sarah Palin in demographic, lifecycle terms, but I don't identify with her as the mother in this case. I feel pain for her daughter.
Please do not shoot the messenger. Joe G and I have limited internet access this week, and so, just this. I'm not mom, but if you would, pleas bring the discussion down to a dull roar to fit in the commenters guidelines posted in the left column here at TMV.
Please do not attack each other or the writer. Disagreement is different than 'fight club'. Joe allows guest voices to write as they wish, and he has offered many many guest voices as have I, and other TMV writers. We bring the guest, but do not edit or censor their writing.
This particular topic is a fire-starter at many places across the blogosphere and on television and talk shows. I have my two cents about it, also. As a woman, a mother and grandmother. Especially about the judgment of a young first time mother (and father) in a sudden media blitzkreig that is highly seductive and corrosive, both, and lack of absolute 'out of the media lights' protection for the young parents and child.
But, rather than going into detail, thank you for 'the lively discussion' as we say in the minutes of board meetings where people became impassioned… and just my two cents worth… tiny silver lining… i am glad people have a sense of shock still. It's when they dont that so much can be lost.
dr.e,
assistant editor and columnist, The Moderate Voice
“She did not asked to get invited to this dance”
Indeed. But I already knew that. That would, in fact, be the entire reason for the amount of blowback you've had on this piece.
By all means, pound on Palin for exposing her children. I myself cannot relate to a mother who would do this, and I feel very sad for both Bristol *and* Levi. But don't ask me to excuse vicious attacks on a girl who neither asked for it, nor deserves it.
AR:
“Pissed his pants”
“Hate-filled screed”
“Bile”
“He is sick”
“Need psychiatric help”
“Only a coward's way”
“Sniveling, pathetic slime-ball”
“Self-denying, self-loathing, lying piece of shit”
. . . and thisclose to his head exploding.
Austinroth, take a cold shower. Shaun knows what he did. He changed it. It's as good as an admission of guilt. I'm STILL laughing at you though because your whole “YOU HAVE BECOME THAT WHICH YOU HATE YOU LIBERAL SHIT” can be just turned around as easily on you.
Now, you could say you're merely protecting that poor pitiful child that Shaun called a slut and there's a difference. But Bristol Palin is a public figure, and her sex life became a public issue during the campaign. It was in the news lately, and for some god-forsaken reason Shaun brought it up so we're still discussing it. But the vibe I'm getting from some people on this thread is that it's not enough to call Shaun out for saying stupid tasteless shit, we need to get him kicked off TMV too and imply all sorts of conspiracies and direct character attacks against both Joe and Shaun. You're letting YOUR personal distaste get the better of you and I'm calling out your bullshit. So get mad all you want, but once you made it a character issue, who the hell are you to judge?
I have now officially won the internets!
I never said to kick him off. I did say and/or imply that crap like his Bristol comment does not belong here. And it does not.
No Shaun! Only an apology written in virgin's blood, notarized with unicorn tears, blessed with a kiss from an angel and personally delivered by Santa Claus can save you now.
I think you're really reaching, now CS. OK, Dodd was in the VIP loan Department, probably just as any legislator and most high-value customers are. They get special deals, but so far, there's no smoking gun that he changed his views on any legislation based on getting a better discount than mortal borrowers like us. If there's more here than a VIP getting VIP treatment, it will likely come out in the DOJ probe on the subject. That is, THIS administration is investigating what appears to be ALLEGED wrongdoing, while the last one callously failed to seriously investigate crimes–including war crimes–that were allegedly committed. So, strike one on your Dodd hypocrisy charge, at least for now.
As for Rep Frank's former lover (it ended over 10 years ago), I've seen no evidence or even allegation that Frank got him the job at Fannie Mae, nor that Frank's support of that company was unlawful or unduly influenced by the relationship. There's a big difference between getting your spouse a job and falling for someone already in that position. In any case, that TOO is under investigation, and again, unlike the DOJ activities during the last administration.
Oh, and BUSH and the GOP were big supporters of the very same programs that you now consider to be some form of nepotism. Bush lauded Fannie and Freddie's actions to overcome “a home ownership gap.” He went on to say “a low income home buyer can have just as nice a house as anybody else.” How's that for raising expectations? The GOP had the votes to change this at any time. Instead, Bush publicly presented it as his own idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6u_2MNwmos
So no sale on either point. The GOP ignored GOP wrongdoing repeatedly. The Obama administration is not. Hypocrisy charge fails on both your examples. Plus, they're obscure and complicated issues, and don't get or deserve the attention Palin does for public flamethrowing. Remember, SHE started it. If she hadn't, it would not be a story.
Glad to see you think “Bristol, who as a post-adolescent..” is a solid moral argument. Good for you.
Have any daughters?
“I fail to see why TMV continues to give you a forum for your bile, which really belongs at DU or Balloon Juice.
You need psychiatric help Shaun, seriously.”
Res ipsa loquitur.
They must've been having a sale on self-righteousness at Costco.
Such a reasoned argument. I guess being Liberal means never having to say you are sorry. Just whitewash what you said, and pretend it never happened is good enough.
Sorry, I should have been more specific.
“I fail to see why TMV continues to give you a forum for your bile like this post, which really belongs at DU or Balloon Juice.”
Not all of his posts are so repugnant.
And he DOES need psychiatric help, IMHO.
You are a real work of art. If anyone OTHER than a flaming Liberal had made such a comment, you would not defend it.
It is misogyny on his part, plain and simple, and signs of a deranged thought process towards Bristol. It is not self-righteousness to call out hatefulness.
But whatever. You seem to feel that he can do no wrong, or that no one has the right to criticize that wonderfully thoughtful character assassination of a young woman, and have no real defense of his comments to make, so you resort to calling me names.
I'm sorry I tried to use humor to lighten the mood. How's the view on top of that high horse by the way? Boy, you've really got Shaun in a pickle don't you. Keep up the personal attacks, I'm sure he'll break any minute now. The only way to win the internet is more personal attacks! More!!!
Dr. e,
Your loyalty towards Joe is admirable, but misplaced.
Imagine if a purported “center right” writer gained access to TMV and, over a period of years, posted article after article demonstrating an irrational hatred of a large segment of the population. Imagine that this right winger crossed the proverbial line a number of times to one degree or another, but on one occasion went beyond the pale.
Would you still be defending the writer? More to the major point, would you still be defending his enabler, the person who provides a platform for the hater to vent his bile?
The crime here is not the rantings of a troubled malcontent, but the exploitation of his ignorant venom for commercial purposes.
If Joe wants to make money off of Shaun’s lunacy, let him open a carnival sideshow and charge a quarter to see the freak. Don’t foist him onto the public on a site labeled “The Moderate Voice”.
Good thing mental illness carries no stigma, eh? I agree, in no way could that be mean or degrading. Thank you, AR for your selfless act to help Shaun.
I respect the need for such guidelines, Dr. E, but what is the appropriate way to register a complaint about a really inappropriate instance of character assassination appearing in a post at this blog, made against a young woman who did nothing to deserve it (and then later erased down the rabbit hole when the poster realized his error?)
Do you and Joe wish to address these things via email, and will they be taken seriously?
The thing is, you still haven't stopped. It's been YOU making personal attack after personal attack against Shaun, like that will solve the problem. Instead Shaun has dug in his heels, imagine that!
Many, many people posted and called Shaun out for his tasteless attack without implying he's mentally unstable, cowardly, a piece of shit, etc.
Now how did they manage that? Such a thing is impossible!
And if I call you names, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
You misunderstand my degree of support for Palin here. It's not support, just an attempt to understand that what I consider a big mistake was more likely made out of misplaced emotion than out of 'vileness.' Consider, for instance that several male commenters talked about the unwritten rule that parents going through divorce shouldn't impugn character of their spouse within earshot of the kids. I wonder though, if grandparents usually follow that rule- because I know that the pain of watching your child going through what you believe is a betrayal often makes it impossible for people to react rationally, even with the knowledge that the grandkids would be better off being able to have two parents that the can respect- but the grandparents more than likely often feel that's impossible because of betrayal that usually accompanies divorce. Not having lived this, I'm only thinking out loud, and wondering whether the divorce parent rule really applies here anyway…
But I'm getting off on a tangent…mainly I just don't think this is anyone's business to judge, even if you think that Palin's the one who put it in the public forum. I do think, if I were in her shoes, that I'd have done a Cheney and responded to questions with a “none of your damn business”, but I doubt that the questions would have let up then so I'm presuming she thinks (or thought) that it was better to take it head on. A bad judgment, IMO, but not an evil one.
So again, stop trying to convince me that Pallin is causing harm- I'm not arguing otherwise, just arguing that that doesn't make her a monster, just a fallible human being.
When you say I 'lost you' about using bigoted terms like “white trash” do you mean your conceding that point, that that shouldn't be acceptible political discourse?
I didn't say I couldn't take it. I said you had no real argument to defend Shaun's comments with, so resorted to calling me names.
You are his personal defender now? He cannot answer for himself? Well, apparently not. But why is that YOUR problem?
“Shaun Mullen is a former The Moderate Voice columnist. Over a long career with newspapers, this award-winning editor and reporter covered the Vietnam War, O.J. Simpson trials, Clinton impeachment circus and coming of Osama bin Laden, among many other big stories.”
What happened to you?
I think Palin is showing poor judgement for the best interests of her family. I also think attacks on her family (including Bristol) should be off the table.
But I DO think it's fair to determine (as uch as possible) if Palin's public rhetoric matches her private actions. Not that there will be a perfect match… There will always be some judgements that aren't perfect or people stilting the facts. But if she believes in honesty and integrity (as an example) I would expect to see her practice that in her personal life, or at least the private life we can see.
With regards to her handling of her family over the course of the election and putting them in the spotlight… and her handling of the Levi affair… and her treatment of her mother…. I don't know how everyone looks at these issues in totality around Palin and I suspect that each of us sees something differently (and Shaun is at one end of the spectrum). But how Palin handles these issues (doesn't even matter WHAT the issues are…. but how she handles them) should give us each a better understanding (pro or con) into Palin.
Some people are going to agree that Palin should stand up for her daughter in a public way, even if it means prolonging a public fight which may be messy. Others will think that Palin should just say that her family is off limits and there is no discussion on private matters. This second group of people may also wonder if Palin will take every little disagreement with a world leader and make it public in a confrontational way, rather than have the judgment and skills necessary to work out differences in a productive way.
I'm not saying a public fight or private protection is the right way to go with regards to handling family disagreements- we all handle disagreements differently. All I'm saying is that these actions of Palin do allow us to evaluate her behavior. Some people will be for this approach and some against. If Palin presents herself as “X” in her statements but her actions show that she is really “Y” then we should be very careful before supporting her (or not).
To the extent that Palin herself makes (or prolongs) her private life a matter of public knowledge then we can evaluate her actions. The story here isn't Bristol's behavior, but Palin's handling of it.
I can't see how we're all qualified to pass such judgment as to say that Sarah Palin herself should be 'pounded' but that's me I guess. Casting the first stone and all of that…
I really can't see why any of it qualifies as political discourse either. At most, a brief comment that one might not ever consider voting for someone who isn't more private about her family matters, and leave it at that. The vitriole is astounding, IMO- as though she was a child molestor or something, instead of a parent who is using questionable judgment. And the silence in response to my question about why we don't similarly care so much about hypocrisy when it involves, for instance, politicians who claim to ask for public trust in regulating business, but then are quite obviously using their position for personal gain or engaging in serious conflict of interest personal relationships, is very telling.
Why THIS politician, why THIS moral failing, but not those violations of public trust?
What Shaun initially said was, as roro80, some “grade A slut shaming.” If he had posted this at say, Shakesville, he would have been flamed out of existence and he would have imploded into a ball of shame. However, he changed it even if he did not explicitly acknowledge it to something much more mild. However, people can say, do, and (gasp!) post thoughtless, hurtful things. Sometimes they don't even know they do it.
If this has proved anything, it's that political correctness can be used as a bludgeon against anyone, be they liberal or conservative. I don't appreciate it when feminists use it against men who by their own admission have grown up witless in rape culture, or believe that white students should be kicked out of school for wearing blackface, or be damned for saying “that's gay.” One comment/act should not a career end.
So the reason I'm defending Shaun from the indefensible is because, as they have shown by their own words, his attackers are no better. They make the same baseless generalizations and thoughtless remarks. And because of one comment that was almost immediately changed, there's a concerted effort by some people to stick it to Shaun. I think this is fauxtrage instead of a honest effort to inform Shaun his comments were unacceptable here at TMV. Instead, there's a concerted effort to dictate discourse because some people simply don't like Shaun or his politics. Whispers of conspiracies for money and mental instability are being shared knowingly by jwest, Austinroth, and Braindead. When confronted about their own personal attacks, they cry “Foul! Libs defending libs!” or “Unreasonable! I'm just pointing out Shaun's misogyny!” Sorry, but color me skeptical of the purity of your motivations.
This is why Shaun's article was a terrible article. Instead of being about the Palins, it's about Shaun. And I'm sure he loves the attention, ego maniac that he is.
What's the difference between 'speaking publicly' and 'giving interviews'- sounds like one in the same to me.
Probably not a lot, but I am particularly repulsed and appalled by Sarah Palin's having instructed her spokesperson to phone up a senior editor or the editor-in-chief at People magazine and read off to them a specific, written-out official statement from Palin about what a bad father Levi Johnston is and how little he cares about his child and how irresponsible he is and how Bristol now realizes that it was a mistake ever to be involved with him. There is a cold, calculating maliciousness in that — and the fact that it was People magazine, which I'm guessing is the highest circulation celebrity/gossip magazine in the country makes that cold calculating aspect even more obvious.
You don't do something like that on impulse out of a misguided emotional concern for your child. This was an extremely hurtful thing to do to both Levi and Bristol — and I repeat, Levi is essentially nothing more than a vulnerable, hurting, confused kid. He's a KID, flailing out, trying to defend himself and his family, the way a kid would, not thinking about the best, most mature way to do that. For Palin to deliberately and publicly humiliate and hurt Levi and her daughter, which I believe is what she did, is inexcusable. It doesn't make her a monster or evil, but it is reprehensible.
When you say I 'lost you' about using bigoted terms like “white trash” do you mean your conceding that point, that that shouldn't be acceptible political discourse?
No, because I never argued or implied that it was. Maybe I'm missing something. Did Shaun call someone “white trash” in his post?
@ Lit3Bolt:
You said: “But Bristol Palin is a public figure, and her sex life became a public issue during the campaign.”
I don't think I agree with the statement that Bristol Palin is a public figure. Her mother is a public figure.
Mom Blogs – Blogs for Moms…
…
Everyone and their brother here have spent the entire day covering the subject before I even caught up with this post. (I barely had time to publish two things today with everything else I've got going on.) So I'm not going to bother diving in. But I will say that, while I may not have written a post like this myself, I object to Shaun drawing the spotlight away from my ongoing, 2017 part series of baseless and despicable attacks on Sarah Palin and her family. Talk about stealing the thunder….
GD, well, thanks for trying to serve up some rationalizations, anyway. I have no desire to defend wrongdoing which wasn't investigated during the Bush administration or GOP Congress, but WRT Frank, anyone with that degree of conflict of interest should recuse themselves from an oversight role, period. And regarding investigations, again trying to hold you to avoidance of double standard, does this mean that when Republicans are under investigation there will be no commentary here, just wait for justice to be done, I guess?
Read the first sentence of the post, Kathy.
MY WAY
(sung to Frank Sinatra’s “My Way”)
And now, the end is near;
To all of you, I’m glad I met ya’
Alaskans, let’s make it clear,
Did I fool you?, Oh yeah, “ya betcha!”
You’ve met Todd, the “First Dude”,
His snowmachine is in the driveway.
Is he drunk? My God, he’s blitzed,
The D.U.I. way.
Regrets, I’ve had a few;
More than most, I will remember.
My lipstick and my hair-do
But most of all, 4th of November.
Each day since then has been
Another never-ending whine and cry day,
And I’ve been told by Newt Gingrich,
To hit the high-way.
Yes, there were times, that now you know
I failed to declare “per diem” dough.
What’s this about “stimulus funds”?
Let’s just cling to, our God and guns.
Oh, I just winked and then I blinked;
And did it my way.
Nicknames, I’ve had a few
There’s “Caribou” and “Barracuda”
Now I’m known as “Sarah Who?”
Cuz Tina Fey is so much cuter.
To think I’m a has been;
And I can’t see – beyond next Friday
Woe, oh woe is me,
I won’t have my day.
For what is a gal, what has she got?
When her career, has gone to pot.
How to appear on nightly news;
When she’s inept at interviews.
She’s still exposed despite those clothes –
See – You – Next – Tuesday!
GreenDreams: re your rebuttal to CStanley.. good points and thanks for the YouTube link!
AR, “Glad to see you think “Bristol, who as a post-adolescent..” is a solid moral argument. Good for you. Have any daughters?”
I enjoyed your comment. Touche.
Dear jwest, thank you and please allow me take up the part of your message I know something about… There's no money to be had at TMV. None of us are paid, including Joe, in fact, Joe pays for the site himself from his own pocket and every now and then does a pledge for tips to help out, and there's some extremely meager blips from ads, but never enough.
Just by way of further picture: There've been three major upgrades to the site since I've been here (two years,) and many of us pitched in substantial dollars for those too even though we arent paid. Those upgrades cost a great deal of money. Too, Tyrone has given hundreds if not thousands of hours also, gratis, to keep comments, mend glitches, the site itself which occasionally gets overloaded, running accurately, and in a timely way… and so have others who are behind the scenes in design and etc, although some are paid for their work on the web design.
And that's often when you will see a pledge drive. I could be wrong, but I think having corresponded with many who write regularly for TMV, and I think it could be said fairly, as others here have pointed out, that all sometimes write 'off base' …but also write many things that arent 'off base.'
The topic being discussed here is a loaded one, and I have my own opinions about it, as I mentioned before, as a woman, mother and grandmother.
I will however, later tonight when I get home from working mission, (it'll be past midnight I'm afraid) tell Joe you asked about various Jwest. I have heard you. So have others here too.
dr.e
Read the first sentence of the post, Kathy.
Jeez Louise. I think I need to get new contact lenses. :-
I have no idea if that's a real emoticon, but my dyslexic fingers created it, and i liked it.
Did we break the new nested posting capability?
LOL Shaun, Rush Limbaugh school of journalism?
dear C:
This is just my two cents worth opinion…. Maybe write Joe and see
if he is up for a guest voice from you on the subject of Bristol?I
think, and it's only my two cents worth, that sometimes the best way
of arighting a boat tilting way far, is to weight the other side at
least near equally. Joe has a hands-off policy re his writers, and
that is appreciated by a lot of us who have not been allowed to write
as we wish without previous editors dictating.
Just to mention again C., i am sometimes still bewildered by the
blogosphere, not always understanding tone, intent. Even though I
understand far more easily the goodness of so many. As I've mentioned
at TMV on that particular article you were commenting at/on, as a
mother, grandmother and woman, I have deeply held beliefs about
protecting offspring, in this case, Bristol, Levi and child. But
then, I despised what the media did to Princess Anne, Amy Carter…
when certain media men found them 'ugly,' and likewise what was done
to the Bush twins, to Chelsea, and I know seeing how various have
gone after John McCain's daughter, and also Sarah Palin's childr
Trig, including Bristol.
There is much to be said against this ongoing dragging of the
children because of what their parents are imagined to be/do….
acccording to people in the media.
Please write feel free to write to Joe and inquire as you feel guided C.
I just got home from a gathering of Columbine High School teachers…
it is the 10th anniversary in 5 days and we meet for dinner… and
more mending… they are such outstanding souls… and then I made a
trip to hospice, and now… dear bed at last
with kindest regards,
dr.e
Thanks for the response and suggestion, Dr. E. I'm afraid I'd probably be unable to write my thoughts without including opinions about the blogpost that provoked the discussion, and it probably thus wouldn't be accepted by Joe. I can understand and respect the hands off policy toward authors but I personally have a very different opinion of it when that extends to protection of things that cross lines. It's not my place to tell Joe that my opinion on this is superior to his, though, as his ownership and considerable time/money investment in the blog gives him the last word on it. (I saw you mentioning the amount of time and money everyone gives to the project and I do want to express appreciation.)
In a more general way to express my grievance, I'll just say that I think in most aspects of our lives, we encounter situations where we feel the need to correct a wrong but then as we choose our response we ought to make sure that we don't become part of the problem. This is most obvious, say, for police officers or soldiers/commanders who should continually evaluate their own performance to ensure that they're not using their authority to commit acts which are immoral or unethical- the ends do not justify those means. And writers/journalists/bloggers, in my view, have a sort of authority of their own which should be kept in check- so that when they speak out against a perceived injustice or act of wrongdoing they should recognize responsibility for treating the subject of the criticism with a sense of justice as well- and then even more so, treating the innocent bystanders surrounding that subject with the utmost of care and not excusing themselves for 'collateral damage.'
That's the sort of thing I see happening when those who speak out against the hypocrisy of a politician/parent with regard to his/her children, and using the offense of that parent as a rationale for focusing on a child that otherwise they'd have considered under a protective shield of decency. I think everyone involved in the discussion yesterday felt the same sense of concern for the adolescents and babies who are at the center of controversy- but the one adult who is blamed for putting them there isn't the only one who's responsible if we also continue the attention on the story. Our sense of outrage, IMO, is best channelled into a quick response and then looking away from the family's private matters- I don't accept the excuse that the public will gawk once the mother puts her family into the public venue, as we too have responsibilities. If we feel the mother has failed in her duty to protect, that makes it even more important for us to do what we feel she should have done.
And I too, have those feelings of distaste when I perceive that a parent may be putting self interest ahead of his/her children's. I think I do have a sense though, that I'm not worthy of judging other parents when I too make mistakes- hopefully none that are too serious or permanent, but nonetheless- I'm pretty averse to publicly condemning another parent without at least wondering whether the mistakes were bungled attempts to do what the parent thought was best vs. callous disregard for what the child needs (consider, for example, two hypothetical parents- one is spanking a child because he/she believes this is an appropriate teaching method, and the other is engaging in physical abuse of a child as an outlet for rage. I consider both acts wrong but I have a very different emotional response and judgment for the parent in each case.)
Re: Columbine- bless you for the healing work that you do. My daughter's high school recently had a scare as two kids brought guns to school, so this hit close to home for me. I'm wondering if you're familiar with the novel “Nineteen Minutes” by Jodi Picoult? She's a favorite 'page turner' author of mine because of her ability to weave issues of societal ethics into compelling stories. I imagine that when you work with victims of attacks like that, and talk to other people about them, it's probably difficult to also help people feel compassion for the perpetrators, and I felt that this book might facilitate that for some readers.
Totally OT, but I have to respond to the “Nineteen Minutes” mention. Awesome book. Adorable Child wants to read it (she's finishing up 7th grade this year), and I'm considering letting her (though I have some reservations).
My daughter read it this year (ninth grade). She read a couple of Picoult's books previously- probably starting around the same age as your daughter is now. I think “My Sister's Keeper” was the first one I agreed to let her read. I'm still having reservations about “The Pact” although there are good arguments for why teens SHOULD read it- but last summer she was going through a pretty intense first dating relationship and the Romeo and Juliet kind of stuff wasn't something I felt was healthy for her at that time.
Joe Gandelman is having trouble with logging on to DISQUS comments. He asked me to post the following on his behalf. — Pete
From Joe: I'm not going to respond to comments like some of those left above. TMV doesn't make a ton of money and was never set up as a money maker. Please READ THE GUIDELINES BELOW on commenting. As many readers on the right, left, center know if you have an idea about a post on an issue you can send it to me as a Guest Voice. Guest Voices don't attract any extra traffic. I've offered them since starting TMV as way to get extra viewpoints on the site — and have had readers say they wont' return if I keep running Michael Reagan and some others on the left. And we continue to run Guest Voices. When threads turn into attacks on the site or the writer as opposed to the issue raised by the writer its time to suggest that discussion needs to fit the guidelines below. Most of this thread does discuss the issue.
One thing. Jwest's comments are not the type we encourage on TMV and if you read our comment threads, we don't do that here. You can EMAIL me personally with such charges — if emailing a “villain” is not difficult. We used to moderate comments but no one has the time to do so. So what we do is if it goes over the top we leave one polite reminder to read our guidelines on commenting, which are enforced. Once again: if comments continue on this, the discussion should be on the validity or lack of validity of the issue raised in this post. If people have problems with me or don't like TMV, they can email me, although abusive emails are all put in the spam box. Comments are set up for comments on posts.
SHOULD SHE STAY OR SHOULD SHE GO
(Sung to the Clash song “Should I Stay or Should I Go”)
(Whoo! – - – Allah!)
Sarah you gotta let us know
Should you stay or should you go?
If you say that you are mine,
You should be in State 49.
I know we have a lot of snow,
But do you really have to go?
Its always me, me, me
Loved your selection for A.G.
Another po-lit-i-cal hack
Beware if you are gay or black
Well come on and let us know
Do you really have to go?
Should she stay or should she go now?
Should she stay or should she go now?
If she goes to Indiana,
Will it next be to Montana?
Don’t we pay you enough dough?
Your poor decisions boggle me
You’re just a lightweight G.O.P.
Pranked that time by fake Sarkozy
Embarrassed by Levi on T.V.
Come on and let us know,
Are you brain-dead or is it show?
(split)
Should she stay or should she go now?
Should she stay or should she go now?
If she goes, future’s in trouble,
And if she stays, laughs will be doubled
We just hope that if she goes…
She takes her best friend “Plumber Joe”
Should she stay or should she go now?
If she goes, future’s in trouble,
And if she stays, laughs will be doubled
We just hope that if she goes
She takes along her “Sixpack Joes”
I'd say C. Stanley, that was a pretty good 'guest voice' you put in comments here.
dr.e