Fauxrage In Mexico – Hillary Hates Catholics!
This weekend finds us with another dose of stories which have recently made me despair of covering politics this year. Just to set the baseline here, I opposed Hillary Clinton’s bids for both our Senate seat here in New York and her presidential run. Also, I didn’t vote for Barack Obama. (Nor did I vote for John McCain.) But after his decisive victory in November I was somewhat heartened when some of the Right leaning bloggers I follow indicated that the level of political discourse might be elevated a bit this year. The “loyal opposition” would be back with a purpose. They would recognize President Obama as the legitimate winner and support America, but would stand ready to criticize the President, his administration and his policies when they felt that he was taking the nation in the wrong direction.
Unfortunately, one of the most common questions we hear – seemingly on a daily basis – is, “Can you imagine what would happen if Bush did….?” This has led to a never ending parade of stories like this one. It seems that, during her trip to Mexico, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stopped by a well known Christian Basilica and was unfamiliar with one of their religious relics.
During her recent visit to Mexico, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made an unexpected stop at the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe and left a bouquet of white flowers “on behalf of the American people,” after asking who painted the famous image.
The image of Our Lady of Guadalupe was miraculously imprinted by Mary on the tilma, or cloak, of St. Juan Diego in 1531. The image has numerous unexplainable phenomena, such as the appearance on Mary’s eyes of those present in the room when the tilma was opened and the image’s lack of decay.
Mrs. Clinton was received on Thursday at 8:15 a.m. by the rector of the Basilica, Msgr. Diego Monroy.
Msgr. Monroy took Mrs. Clinton to the famous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which had been previously lowered from its usual altar for the occasion.
After observing it for a while, Mrs. Clinton asked “who painted it?” to which Msgr. Monroy responded “God!”
This, of course, has the usual list of suspects up in arms with their daily dose of fauxrage. I did a quick check with a couple of the other bloggers in this area so see exactly how ubiquitous knowledge of this icon really is and found that I was hardly alone in stating that I’d never heard of the thing either. I suppose if I lived in Mexico I would have, but neither does Hillary. The sadly predictable response to this, of course, is nicely demonstrated by another member of the dimmer bulb crew at babalu, in a short, sniper attack hilariously named “Dumb and Dumberer.”
The fact is that “the smartest woman in America” should have been briefed about what the Virgin of Guadalupe represents to her devotees before injecting her into this situation.
Indeed, sir! She should have been briefed! This complaint ties in to the flood of memes running around the Right wing attempting to portray Obama and his cabinet as inept amateurs, fumbling their way through “on the job training.” Unfortunately, this group of genius level critics seem to have failed to read the very first sentence of the article they are all quoting. To wit:
During her recent visit to Mexico, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made an unexpected stop at the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Did you manage to catch the key phrase that time? So Clinton briefly broke away from the schedule to stop off at a popular tourist destination and her staff didn’t instantly have every last detail of its history ready at hand. I’m surprised none of them caught the real story from the trip when Hillary stopped off for quick bite of lunch on the last day at a local cantina and didn’t know the name of the shop owner! I’m shocked we’re not at war with Mexico already.
Babalu also repeats the endlessly droned hypothetical, “Imagine if George W. Bush had done this.” It’s a rather sad statement that none of these critics can see exactly what they are saying about themselves. The obvious implication is that if Bush had done this, the lefties would be up in arms with fauxrage and talking about how “dumb” he was. So then, when a Democrat does something similar, you turn around and do exactly the same thing. Way to raise the level of discourse, folks.
There are plenty of things to criticize the Obama administration over, particularly if you count yourself among the deficit hawks and fiscal conservatives. But these endless “amateur bumbler dummy” stories make you look like the sullen children on the playground who lose ten consecutive games of T-ball and can then think of nothing more productive to do than follow the winners around shooting spitballs at them. Obama won the election, folks, and you’re going to have to find a way to quiet your own demons for at least the next four years or run the risk of choking on your own bile. Stories like this make me far less inclined to take you (or your candidates) very seriously.
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22 Responses to “Fauxrage In Mexico – Hillary Hates Catholics!”
Jazz – I am no hater of Hillary (just didn't want her as President). However, this criticism is valid, just not one that should be directed at her personally.
This was a failure of the State Department staff. In the end, what is the job of the Department of State? Diplomacy. One key element of diplomacy is not unnecessarily offending your hosts. Whether the majority of average people or even journalists know some given key fact 'X' about the host, it is the duty of State staffers to make sure our Diplomatic team does, as it is important to the other side.
Now, is this an 'end-of'-the-world' gaffe? Of course not. But it is the latest in a series of them at State. That pattern should be of concern.
I see what you're saying, Austin, but then how do we address the fact that it's a huge world with as man “key facts” in it as there are towns and people? Should the Secretary of State *never* veer from the schedule or the carefully prepared scripts they take with them? She asked a question – and I must say, a fairly obvious one because the damned thing looks like a painting to me and probably is. She didn't say some embarrassing, outrageous attack on Mexico, Catholicism, Saints, Virgins or what have you. It looked like a painting and she asked who the artist was. Doesn't sound like any sort of tendency toward offensive speech by a diplomat to me.
The Russian button thing was another one. Was it a gaffe? Sure. But if you watch the video clip, the Russian minister laughed at it too. They need a better Russian translator at state. Ok, fire the one you have now and move on. But a missed translation was hardly as major as my Right wing friends have made it out to be.
I most certainly HAVE been classified as a “Hillary Hater” by quite a few people during previous campaigns and even I have a full measure of sympathy for her on these attacks. I thought she was a poor choice for State, but she's there now and we need to soldier on as best we can.
Austin is right that the staff should have briefed her better on the icon. It's a diplomatic faux pas to not know things that the locals know- customs, history, etc. That said, you're right, Jazz, that it's impossible to know everything and slip ups will happen. It's wrong to attach any great significance to one data point of error. There has, though, been a pattern of errors over a short period of time which suggest that State and WH staff need to get up to speed.
Jazz and CS – it is not a faux pas not knowing some minor piece of local history. Sometimes that can be turned into a good experience, showing interest in new and relevant facts. It is a faux pas when you are talking about a world-famous icon of extreme local and international significance to a major religion, and the most important religion of Mexico, in this case.
Again, it is the pattern of not having key facts, language phrases, etc., that is troublesome. I do not expect perfection from the State Department, but I do expect basic competency on these types of issues.
And it was only an 'obvious' question if you were blissfully ignorant on what you were looking at. Would you consider it an obvious question if she had looked at Mecca and asked, 'Wow, interesting architecture. What is this used for?'
I'm surprised, Jazz. I've known what you quoted above about the Virgin of Guadalupe since I was a child but perhaps I'm the oddball.
BTW, the picture is more than local lore. It's a popular symbol used all across Mexico and by the Mexican diaspora here in the U. S.
if she had looked at Mecca and asked, 'Wow, interesting architecture. What is this used for?'
LOL, or 'Wow, you get a lot of tourists here, don't you?”
I agree, Jazz, who cares?
I would also like to know why I should be concerned that Eric Cantor skipped Obama's press conference to go to a Britney Spears concert.
I have seen explanations as to why I should care, for instance:
When Katrina happened- Bush was on Vacation ( although he found time to have Cake With McCain) and Condi Rice was watching Spamalot….AND now we learn that Cantor was at the Circus ? Britneys Lusty Teen Circus and no it was not a family outing where he took his daughter…he went he claims doing GOP Business ? We are in the Middle of a HUGE Economic Crisis and he was at the titilating Britney Performance ??? He skipped Obama 's 2nd Presser to focus on What ? on Brittany's Dancing ? Virigina you deserve better representation…you really do.
Hurricane Katrina …. Press Conference. Am I missing something here?
Perhaps you could ask Mr. Gandelman why he thought this “story” needed to be featured on his blog.
[...] Hillary apologism by The Moderate Voice, incensed that anyone should stoop to mockery, protests a bit much, offers some immoderate [...]
I thought Clinton's comment “You have a marvelous virgin!” was more questionable than asking who painted the image. She's never been much of a speaker though.
Jazz raises an interesting question, namely after years of criticizing the left for taking the low road shouldn't the right try to take the high road themselves? The answer should be yes, although human nature being what it is it will be tough to do. I think many would see it as taking a debating tactic away from their side while the other side retains it.
All in all though this Clinton faux pas is no big deal.
I think taking the high road is important, but to me that means not engaging in the more ridiculous or less substantive criticisms. For instance, I think taking the high road includes not criticizing Obama for socializing in the midst of an economic crisis (I noticed OTB- I think it was James Joyner- had a blog post defending Obama's outings.)
Of course we see from cynicalone's comment that some on the left STILL won't stop using those kinds of criticisms.
But when someone in the administration actually screws up, as long as the criticism isn't blown out of proportion- I don't see anything wrong with criticizing it. That's not taking the low road, it's just a legitimate means of holding people accountable. If someone used this incident to claim overall incompetence, they'd be exaggerating wildly, but that's different from saying that there have been a few incidents indicating a need for staff to step up a bit.
Would you have dismissed it as “fauxrage” if Bush had made the exact same clunker comments?
What I find amazing is SOS Hillary Clinton has traveled over 60,000 miles in a very short time, which is far more than any other SOS in my lifetime, and only a few gaffes can be found!! She really is remarkable!!! She mispronounced a couple names, OH MY!…she spoke about multi-democracies…OH MY!….There was this “reset” funny…OH MY!…and now this. WOW…is that all the critics have?!?! Bush couldn't pronounce “nuclear” the entire eight years he was in office!!!
Hillary is a very studious one…she is known for her insatiable appetite for knowledge, and she rarely disappoints. I find it amusing when Bush Admin. groupies quip, “can you imagine if Bush had done this”, because God Help us, there are legions of books on nothing more than “bushisms”. Bush and his Admin. didn't have the chance to be criticized for mispronouncing names because we didn't intend on speaking with those leaders in the first place…why worry about names!
Any Hillary gaffe will be amplified, afterall, it's Hillary!! I'm sure she's accustomed to being under a more magnified scope. It comes with the territory of being Hillary. I'm a huge supporter of hers, and am more and more impressed as time goes by……
I have actually visited the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and you know, it's amazing–that image that was magically imprinted on the cloak? It really looks for all the world like a normal painting that employed pigments typical of its age, applied by brush!
The point, Jazz, is not whether right-wing bloggers criticize Obama but whether the mainstream media will criticize Obama or, instead, will choose to look the other way when they would not have looked the other way had Condi Rice done the same thing. BTW, one cannot imagine someone as intelligent as Condi Rice having such a lack of cultural intelligence.
D.
It humorous that all of the progressives who said that they would not be the same mistakes as the Bush apologist lied. The left has taken owner of the Obama Administration and will attack anyone who casts doubt on it. Instead of demanding real performance from Pelosi and Reid in Congress, instead o apologizing for the Obama Administration, maybe people should start question an organization that cannot find 23 people who did not cheat on their taxes.
KMB – if you had bothered to read what I actually wrote, then you would have noted that I sepcifically said those were not personal shortcoming of Hillary, but rather shortcomings of the support staff.
I guess it is simpler for you to just go off half-cocked and try to turn everything into an anti-Bush rant than accept any criticism of anything Democratic, even as in this case when it was deserved, and decidedly low-key.
The “Hilary should have been briefed” meme resonates here in Mexico. It's not so much that a Protestant spoke out of ignorance, but that the Secretary of State of our NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR and largest trading partner is still of the mindset that the U.S. can preach to the Mexicans without knowing a damn thing about the country, its history or its peoples.
After 200+ years as next door neighbors, we're entitled to get a bit testy. As an author of a Mexican history, I'm personally annoyed that the people in the United States too parochial a mindset to show even a smidgen of interest about a very large country — and it's second largest oil supplier I might add — on it's own border.
To us, it's not a gaffe, it's a slap in the face.
[...] Jazz my coblogger at TMV, wrote a good article called Fauxrage In Mexico – Hillary Hates Catholics! about how some in media have spun a naive question Hillary asked at the Basilica of Our Lady of [...]
Austin,
Your point is well taken.
BTW, I criticize Democrats with ease….I'm not a “strong” Democrat….very moderate actually.
I suppose my comment was made after reading this article, as well as others, pertaining to the so-called gaffes, so I should have reined my feelings in a little better in response to this article per se.
Touche'
Just my two cents worth as a Mexican Latina and Catholic: the priest's reply was a gracious one. Also, as Jazz and I and other journalists know, we did not hear the entire conversation. We do not know if the priest was a 'secular priest' or a religious priest. We do not know if he is a 'tourist priest,' or a holy keeper of the shrine.
Nonetheless, many of us Latinos are not 'slapped in the face' at all. We are more interested in teaching people/strangers than in scorning them. We are interested in returning not to the ways of some of those who oppressed us, but another way that follows a better path… We know war doesnt make progress, flailing at people doesnt create. This is just my two cents worth. I've written about it, referencing Jazz's article here, at the top of TMV, just now.
I often wish those similar perhaps to those who Jazz notes, those who are enraged at one or ten nations in this world, would go face off with Than Shwe and Mugabe and others, confronting those who murder daily. It seems it might help. I'm not sure, but it seems people who go up face to face with monsters turn their angers to heroisms. I could be wrong.
dr.e
KMB – Thanks for the kind words and re-reading of what I actually was saying.
Knowing Hillary from the reports of her temper through the years, I have to image she is kicking ass and taking names (and replacing them!) to reduce these errors.
Again, they may seem like little things to most of us, but in Diplomacy they often take on much bigger meanings. Otherwise, why would the State Department have an Office of the Chief of Protocol reporting directly to the SOS?
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