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Save the Economy – Save the Immigrants

Posted by NED LIPS in Economy, Politics, Society.
Oct 3rd, 2008 | Comments

Throughout time immigrants have driven the growth and prosperity of this country. The concept of illegal immigrants is a relatively recent one. The idea that we should keep out those who don’t look like us, however, is an age-old effort. Whether we like it or not, immigrants are critical to the future of the US economy. There is a simple way to solve this problem. Make them join a union.

Who comes to the US? Immigrants are people with the guts to leave their families, cultures and traditions to venture into a new land in search of a way to improve themselves. They are tough, clever and self-sufficient.

Most people fear the risks and stay home, no matter the desperation of their native situation. Immigrants bear these great burdens and still send most of their often meager wages home. Immigrants are truly special people. This has always been what defines Americans. This applies to Mexican immigrants as completely it has to all other nationalities.

A Bit of History: As always, we should learn from our past or suffer the same errors. Immigration laws are a recent concept. The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 was the first broad immigration law. Still immigrants were generally welcomed and helped by Americans to adjust to and become part of society.

Laws of Exclusion: Prior to 1952, “immigration laws” were designed solely to exclude certain ethnic groups. The Naturalization Act of 1790 excluded blacks except as slaves. After that there were acts specifically excluding Chinese, Japanese, Asian Indians, Filipinos, and others. Isn’t our current policy strikingly similar? http://www.umass.edu/complit/aclanet/USMigrat.html We became a melting pot despite our white ancestors’ best efforts.

The Baby Boom: In 1965 we first began to prefer immigrants with skills. The Baby-boomers were coming of age. Births rose dramatically from 1945 to 1957. After that rates fell. The Baby-boom generation officially extends to 1964. A graph of births per year can be found here.

There was a glut of new 20-something workers entering the marketplace to fill the less-skilled positions at the bottom of the growing corporate pyramid. Unskilled immigrant workers, therefore, would further overfill an overflowing population.

1990 was the tipping point.
The youngest Baby boomers turned 26 and wanted to move out of the lowest-level jobs. The problem, there were simply not enough young workers to replace them. Businesses found they could not fill the unskilled workers with Americans. They had two choices:
1. Hire immigrants, or
2. Outsource to other countries.
Based on the needs and resources of their business, they did both.

As time passed, the situation worsened. There was pressure to outsource as China found a great new way to drive its economy. There was pressure for Mexicans to come to the United States to fill the jobs left vacant. For years we ignored them as we always had.

Immigrants are Critical to Our Economy.
When a corporation outsources jobs overseas, it no longer needs the supervisors or managers above that group of workers and those jobs are lost as well.

When a corporation hires immigrants, all of the supervisory and management jobs are retained in the US to oversee those workers.

9/11
Then the Bush Administration slammed the door using 9/11 as the excuse. By some accounts there are around 10 million “illegal” aliens in the United States. They have been here for years helping to fill the critical jobs at the bottom of the corporate pyramid.

Mexican immigrants could not go back home, as they had for years, for fear they would not be able to return to the US. The vast majority, like all Americans, had good steady jobs and paid their taxes and even contributed to Social Security and Medicare without hope of benefiting from them.

The Solution is Simple
You cannot remove ten million people, even if you could find them. We cripple US businesses struggling already to compete by denying them Mexican workers.
Pure amnesty is simply politically impossible. A fence is just silly.

Undocumented Workers Must Join a Union
If we provided that any illegal alien could secure all necessary working papers to become “legal” so long as they join a recognized American union and remain in good standing, we would solve all of the problems associated with Mexican workers.

Then employers have no excuse. If they need more low-skilled workers, they need only turn to the unions. Any illegal alien who chooses not to join a union, will not be able to find work.

Unions will help workers adjust to our culture, language and work ethic. They will help them secure training and better wages, make sure they are not competing with Americans, and help ensure they have health and other insurance.

American workers, whether in guilds, trades or unions, have always been there to help immigrants adapt. They will do it again.

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superdestroyer

this in one of the dumbest pieces I have read in a long time.

California is running a huge budget deficit and does not have the cash to pay its bills because the millions of illegal aliens in California consume more in government benefits than they pay in taxes. If poor mexican immigrants were good for the economy, El Paso Texas would be a boom town instead of an arm pits.

Middle class Americans are stressed by the downward pressure of wages created by millions of both legal and illegal aliens. Look at the career fields in California that are now barred to whites and blacks because of their domination by immigrants. Look at how much the middle class and upper middle class spends to that there children are not sent to schools that are overrun with illegal aliens. Look at the drop in white birthrates in the U.S. becasue whites to not like the future they see.

The middle class would have to be idiots to add millions of illegal aliens to the welfare rolls, the voting rolls, and the unemployment rolls.

roro80

superdestroyer, your comments are so ignorant, and yes, they are racist. California is running a huge budget deficit because we have an exaggerated version of the same real estate bubble/crisis being experienced everywhere else. The OMG it must be the Mexicans! line is old, and again, racist. Knock it off.

This is totally ridiculous: "Look at the career fields in California that are now barred to whites and blacks because of their domination by immigrants." What fields are you talking about? The actual, literal fields? Do you think you wouldn't be able to go get a job doing ag work or washing dishes? Do you feel "barred" from those areas? Or is it that migrant workers are clogging up your path up the corporate ladder? They bought all the nice suits at Barney's you had your eye on?

DLS

Hey, California is telling Paulson that California may "have" to get an emergency loan from the federal government. Never mind that there is no obligation on the part of the federal government (nor on the taxpayers) to give the loan to California. Parasites.

As for immigration, we need to control our borders and revise our immigration policy to end the sappy "family reunification" practice in favor of evaluation, a "points system" and an individual basis for admission to the USA.

roro80

Just like businesses, people, and any other entity whose money comes in at one time and needs to go out at another, California regularly takes out and shortly pays back loans. The credit crunch is killing that for everyone, including government bodies. Have you tried to get a car loan in the last week -- damn near impossible, even if you have decent credit. That's happening in Cali on a very big scale. Blaming any of that on Mexicans is over-the-top crap.

superdestroyer

roto80,

Try opening a dry cleaners in California or getting a job in a medical lab or in medicine if you are white. Many writers have begun to notice that California has a defacto caste system where certain ethnic groups work certain jobs and it is not all agriculture or fast foot. The total number of whites is California has been going down for about two decade bacause of massive immigration.

I wonder if "Ned Lips" have ever visited El Paso, Laredo, or Brownsville Texas to learn first hand what large number of illegal aliens really do to an economy.

The wealthy really like immigrants because they are used to eliminate blue collar whites. If you look at cities from Los Angeles to DC, you will notice that there are few if any blue collar whites. If you open the borders to unlimited immigrants, where are the blue collar whites support to immigrant? Canada?

roro80

sd -- I've lived in California most of my life, both in the Bay Area and in the San Diego area. I don't personally know anyone in the dry cleaning business, but most I have seen in my area are not run by latinos. As for the medical field -- I do have a lot of friends in that field, and there's a diverse mix of races, and even if there are a number of Mexican Americans, that doesn't make them illegal. There are, of course, certain fields certain ethnicities of people go into, but have YOU ever applied to open a dry cleaners? If you were denied because of your race, I suggest you sue for discrimination.

Why does it scare you if there aren't as many white people in California? Does it bother you to hear different languages, see brown faces? White people aren't having as many babies, it's true, but that's not because of a fear of the brown-people future, it's because birth control is awesome.

I've never been to El Paso, but I grew up a few miles from the border in California. Lots of wealth down in San Diego, let me tell you -- lots of racism, too, but lots of wealth. Maybe the Texas locations are crappy and poor because they're in the middle of the dusty desert, have little state support because Texans don't pay income tax, and those who are educated or successful want to move somewhere better. I don't think you can argue that San Diego has a less prominent Mexican immigrant population than any of those places, but it's beautiful and the weather's great, and the ocean is warm and swimmable, so people with money want to live there, bring jobs there, retire there, and put their wealth into that area. Again, you're ascribing to Mexicans something that has nothing to do with them. Most people would call that racism.

Also: wealthy people hate poor white people more than they hate poor Mexicans? Where do you get these ideas? Would you mind rewording this so I can understand the question: "If you open the borders to unlimited immigrants, where are the blue collar whites support to immigrant?"

superdestroyer

roor80,

Places like DC and NYC function the way they go by replacing blue collar whites with immigrants and minorities. The culture of the minorities allows them to live in conditions that whites can not/will not do such as cramming extended families into a single dwelling. Having large number of immigrants allows placed like DC to have high paying jobs for white collar whites while maintain cheaper services. If you look at a place like DC, the District itself has no blue collar whites and the surrounding counties have few if any. Blue collar, white tradesmen drive in from 50 miles away or more to work in government licensed industries like electrical, plumbing, and HVAC because illegals and recent immigrants cannot break into those fields. My guess is that LA, SF, and SD work about the same way. It is also probably the reason that the total number of whites in California is going down.

since the white elites in California or the East Coast never interact with blue collar whites, they despise them because the elite whites seem them as being lower than immigrants/minorities.

Oh, San Diego county is actually whiter than California as a whole, so it does not support your your thesis. It is 51% white versus 43% for all of California. Compare that to El paso Texas that is 14% white. I wonder how many white kids in San Diego attend a school that is majority Hispanics. My guess is few to none. Where people send their children to school shows you want they really feel about other ethnic groups.

roro80

Ah, sometimes it's just like talking into the void...

"The culture of minorities..." holly heckfire, dude. They don't live in those conditions because it's part of their culture. They live in those conditions because they are POOR. When white people have no money, they live in poor conditions, move in with relatives, in their car, on the street, as well as immigrants. That there are adults who don't understand that blows my mind. It's incredible to me that the very standard Republican argument you give in that first paragraph is somehow supposed to jive with the whole "the market takes care of everything" de-regulatatory, anti-union, no minimum wage Republican argument. I haven't gone back to your other comments to see if you are one of those free-market folks, so maybe that doesn't apply to you.

For this: "since the white elites in California or the East Coast never interact with blue collar whites, they despise them because the elite whites seem them as being lower than immigrants/minorities. " I think the only answer is, er, no they don't. Again, where are you getting this information?

As for San Diego's white/non-white ratio, the difference between that area and the other urban parts of California is that the non-whites are all Mexican (obviously not ALL, but far and away), whereas LA and the Bay Area have huge black, Asian, Indian populations, San Diego really doesn't, except on military bases where there is a significant black population. The Mexican population in SD is huge, and makes up almost all of that 49% of non-white people. I was a white kid, and I attended a school in an upper-class suburb that was about half white and half Mexican. My graduating class was about 500, evenly split between white and Mexican, 2 asians, and maybe 6 blacks. My mother is an administrator for English Language Development in a larg-ish middle-class city there, and there are many schools in her district that are more than half English Learners. My point here is not that white people and Mexican people live there in perfect harmony in SD, but that having extremely large Mexican populations does not mean that you're economy goes down the drain. If El Paso's has, maybe that's the fault of something besides just the ethnicity of the residents there (all the stuff I mentioned above). And not to put too fine a point on it, but to suggest otherwise is racist.

superdestroyer

roro80,

Poor whites have different coping strategies than poor blacks who are different than poor Hispanics. The idea of trailor park trash applies to whites because Hispanics and blacks are much less likely to take that path. Poor blacks will stay in large cities but poor whites move out of urban areas. Hispanics crowd into housing (see the national stories about Prince Willing County Virginia or Atlanta Georgia) but white just do not.

Also, in looking at greatschools.com, I looked up a highly rated public high school in San Diego. The school, Mount Carmel, with a score of 8 of 10 is 53% white and only 10% Hispanic. Another schools with a 10 of 10 score, Ocean Air is 4% Hispanic. yet, Lincoln High School is a score of 3 of ten is 50% Hispanic and 40% black. So, it looks like Hispanic culture and white culture in San Diego works like it does everywhere else in the U.S.
And according to the census bureau, San Diego County is actually less Hispanic than California over all. 30% to 36%. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0607...

Davz

roro80,

#1. You've almost succeeding in making this argument about race. It is NOT about race. Mexican is NOT a race, it's a nationality.

#2. When SD refers to "Mexicans", I believe he is referring to the illegal aliens who are in this country, who are, by an amazing majority, from Mexico. The US citizens who were previously Mexican are NOT included in that group.

#3. The illegal aliens, as they are (I refuse to call them anything but that as it is an accurate description, none of this "undocumented immigrant" crapola) are exactly that. Criminals. Plain and simple. They are breaking the law. Period. That's it. If you want to become a citizen of the United States, I welcome you. But if you want to break into our country illegally only to siphon money out of our economy and into your own pockets, BEWARE. This is my family you're stealing from.

#4. And no, the vast majority of illegal aliens do NOT pay ANY taxes, much less their fair share.

You lose, but thanks for playing.

SD- The numbers for school scores are based on race, and the fact that a large hispanic or large black population will cause the school scores to plummet is a whole other can of worms.

roro80

Is there that big a difference? It's all low-cost, high-density housing. I fail to see how the "coping strategies" certain groups tend employ to get by when they don't have money is relevant to whether or not Mexicans are taking white jobs.

As for your mess of statistics on the overall population of SD, I would like to point out that undocumented workers are...wait for it...undocumented. The vast majority of Mexicans in that area (or anywhere) illegally don't raise their hands when the census comes around. 30% is probably closer to the legal hispanic population there. Unless you really think all Mexicans need to go away, and not just the illegal ones.

I looked up my high school on the site you listed: it earned a "6", whatever that means, and the ethnic breakup was slightly more hispanic than white, with less than 1% in any other category. Yet, the area is extremely wealthy on the whole, and I was able to get into the best university in the state with my public education there. Mount Carmel has tons of money, it's true, and that definitely reflects in funding for schools, level of parental involvement, etc. Ocean Air -- no idea, private magnet school maybe? Anyway, I think what the high school data seems to show is not a Hispanic vs. White issue, but a poor vs rich issue. Which, yet again, only has to do with Mexican people or immigration because they tend to be poor, and therefore live in areas with lower-performing schools. Unless you think Mexcians are stupid?

roro80

Wow Davz, you really have everything all figured out. Thanks for the illumination, I shall bow to your obviously well-informed self. Now, I shan't take up any more of your time, as I'm sure you have fence jumpers to go shoot. Have fun!

retiredave

roro... you lose. Don't go away mad...just go away. And take an armful of "ILLEGAL ALIENS" with you.

retiredave

roro, you lose. game over. pack up your belongings. don't go away mad...just go away. and take an "ARMFULL of ILLEGAL ALIENS" WITH YOU!

stealthy

Hello roro80

I want to join in the debate and let me make my position clear from the start…I refuse to pay any more taxes for illegals in this country. That would include all social serivces. IF you want them here so badly then you can pay my share okay?

The illegals that come to this country bring over population, added poverty and added criminals. Have you seen the projected population of this country by 2042 with the current influx of immigrants? In addition Illegals are 3x more likely to commit crimes then citizens. Why would anybody want that? Why do you want additional taxes, crime and population? Most of these people don’t even want to be Americans that is why they are here for years and don’t even learn the language. They want to remain Mexicans. The past migrants were welcomed to this country with open arms because we needed the population to occupy the massive land. And these people assimilated in short order to the American way. They learned English. Much of the Mexican population refuses to learn English because they don’t want to be Americans. They either wish to return to Mexico one day or assimilate the southern states into Mexico…I am not sure, which is more prevalent.

I don’t understand why people who argue on the side of immigration always want to bring up the past? We are not living in 1890 , are we? Laws and things change over time correct? I would say that things and laws have changed since America desired an influx of immigrants. Would you like an example of some laws that have been changed or added for the better since 1890 or since 1952? I am sure you can come up with quite a few on your own.

Since most of our population explosion (illegals) stems from Mexico have you ever taken a moment to see how the country of Mexico feels about foreigners in their country? Notice I say foreigners and not illegals. Here are some excerpts of Mexicos constitution. Read it carefuly it is quite interesting. I am especially fond of articles 11 and 16

Pursuant to Article 33, “Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere.

Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable.”
Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered “indispensable” include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.

Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be “a Mexican citizen by birth.” Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.

Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters.”

Article 11 guarantees federal protection against “undesirable aliens resident in the country.” What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen’s arrests. Article 16 states, “In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.” In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!

Hey Roro80 do you get that? Could you imagine article 11 and 16 of Mexicos constitution being implemented here?

Mexicos president is so hypocritical to chastise America about its treatment of Mexican Nationals here. Mexico just wants to unload its poor and criminal element on the dumb Americans. And no offense people such as yourself fight to help Mexico with its goal.

stealthy

Hello roro80

I want to join in the debate and let me make my position clear from the start…I refuse to pay any more taxes for illegals in this country. That would include all social serivces. IF you want them here so badly then you can pay my share okay?

The illegals that come to this country bring over population, added poverty and added criminals. Have you seen the projected population of this country by 2042 with the current influx of immigrants? In addition Illegals are 3x more likely to commit crimes then citizens. Why would anybody want that? Why do you want additional taxes, crime and population? Most of these people don’t even want to be Americans that is why they are here for years and don’t even learn the language. They want to remain Mexicans. The past migrants were welcomed to this country with open arms because we needed the population to occupy the massive land. And these people assimilated in short order to the American way. They learned English. Much of the Mexican population refuses to learn English because they don’t want to be Americans. They either wish to return to Mexico one day or assimilate the southern states into Mexico…I am not sure, which is more prevalent.

I don’t understand why people who argue on the side of immigration always want to bring up the past? We are not living in 1890 , are we? Laws and things change over time correct? I would say that things and laws have changed since America desired an influx of immigrants. Would you like an example of some laws that have been changed or added for the better since 1890 or since 1952? I am sure you can come up with quite a few on your own.

Since most of our population explosion (illegals) stems from Mexico have you ever taken a moment to see how the country of Mexico feels about foreigners in their country? Notice I say foreigners and not illegals. Here are some excerpts of Mexicos constitution. Read it carefuly it is quite interesting. I am especially fond of articles 11 and 16

Pursuant to Article 33, “Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere.

Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable.”
Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered “indispensable” include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.

Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be “a Mexican citizen by birth.” Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.

Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters.”

Article 11 guarantees federal protection against “undesirable aliens resident in the country.” What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen’s arrests. Article 16 states, “In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.” In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!

Hey Roro80 do you get that? Could you imagine article 11 and 16 of Mexicos constitution being implemented here?

Mexicos president is so hypocritical to chastise America about its treatment of Mexican Nationals here. Mexico just wants to unload its poor and criminal element on the dumb Americans. And no offense people such as yourself fight to help Mexico with its goal.

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