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“Traditional marriage” is a moving target

Kevin Drum points to McClatchy today:

11,000 couples later, gay marriage largely a nonevent in Mass.

Says Kevin, “Good.”

Ampersand quotes from the California court ruling (pdf) that proposition 8 can be officially described as “Changes California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry” (opponents and advocates both recognized that the change of description worked in favor of those who oppose the initiative):

There is nothing inherently argumentative or prejudicial about transitive verbs, and the Court is not willing to fashion a rule that would require the Attorney General to engage in useless nominalization.

Says Ampersand, “Personally, I’d enjoy watching the news if high government officials were required to engage in useless nominalization at all times.”

MAJeff hasn’t been paying attention to the John Edwards affair, but uses the occaision to observe that “Traditional marriage” is a moving target:

One thing I’ve heard is, “at least he didn’t break the law.” Well, depending upon where his trysts took place, Edwards may have broken the law. Here in Massachusetts, for example, adultery is a crime that carries a penalty of incarceration in state prison for up to 3 years, jail up to 2, or a fine of up to $500. As of 2004, 24 states criminalized adultery. (Cossman, 2007: 209. fn6). Admittedly, such laws are rarely enforced, and the no-fault system means that even if cheating takes place, it’s less likely to be the legal “reason” for the divorce ["Irreconcilable differences" or its equivalent is the norm].

Marriage is a regulatory system. When folks stand in front of their witnesses, and take their vows (the state won’t allow you to marry without a public ceremony), they are entering a three-way contract, with conditions set by the state. One of those conditions is sexual monogamy. Mess around, and you’ve violated the terms of the contract. You’ve sinned against the state, and have committed a criminal offense.

Adultery itself has changed. At the founding of the Republic, it wasn’t sex outside of marriage but involved a married woman having sex with a man not her husband. Adultery laws were put in place to establish men’s property rights over their wives, and particularly to ensure that the children born into such relationships were theirs and not some other man’s. It wasn’t about violations of intimacy or trust, as we take it to be today. It was about stealing another woman’s womb. [Ed. Oops. Big difference]

Indeed, the comment of Edwards’s, that he “didn’t love” the woman with whom he had the affair is a sign of that. In contemporary society, marriage has become about companionship and intimacy [see, for example, Giddens or Seidman]. One of the things that makes same-sex marriage imaginable to many people is the fact that marriage itself has changed in such ways as to make it imaginable. We no longer have the explicit gender-based marital roles established in law. (Everyone say, “Thank you” to the feminist legal activists who brought about a lot of those changes.) Marriage isn’t gender-role based, at least legally, in the rigid ways that it once was.

Says me, “Thank You!”

  • DLS
    You can and should do better. You're trying to expand or enlarge the scope of the term; being deliberately vague (and deceptive) by saying what is fully understood is "a moving target" is deliberate Chomskyite dishonesty -- "what's firm is 'unclear'"
  • Ricorun
    My parents were married in 1948. They felt the need to have two ceremonies, because my mother's family wouldn't step foot in a Catholic Church and likewise my father's family wouldn't step foot in a Presbyterian Church. It seems so silly now.

    Then again, my mother hit the freakin' roof when I brought a girlfriend I was getting kind of serious about home to meet the family. She was bright, outgoing, attractive, and Catholic. She was also black. That was a problem. It seems so silly now.

    Anyway, what's firm again?
  • DLS
    "Firm" for "inquisitive" readers' sake can construed to mean "obvious" (as it so well does when referring to Chomsky's deliberate dishonest confusion or obscuration Because His Arguments Fail). We know what traditional marriage is -- obviously.

    I'm surprised that activists haven't tried using "conventional" instead to be more precise about what they're seeking, but they probably discarded that as demeaning than "traditional" in what it implies about what they want. (Both terms apply correctly to how marriage is commonly and almost universally understood to be defined.) The "traditional" or "conventional" male-female formal arrangement that is marriage may have sex roles changed since 1965 (an adjunct to the abilities and concepts of personhood open for decades now to women that they didn't have before) but the male-female arrangement remains clear to this day. It is superficial to make an analogy to multi-religious and multi-racial relationships the way activists commonly structure their latest attempts at changing (yes, that is changing) the fundamental definition of marriage (i.e., on an older civil rights movement model).

    And no, I'm not saying it's not acceptable for gays to be uncomfortable to the point where (as my friend in DC put it) one can't confortably put his or her partner's photo on their desk at work, for example.
  • CitizenKang
    And no, I'm not saying it's not acceptable for gays to be uncomfortable to the point where (as my friend in DC put it) one can't confortably put his or her partner's photo on their desk at work, for example.

    So, DLS, just what level of discrimination do find acceptable?
  • Considering that ProtectMarriage.com has decided NOT to appeal the ballot language, what chance do you really see for Prop 8 to pass? I just don’t see a majority of Californians voting YES on a proposition titled ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY.

    Once the churches realize that Prop 8 is an almost guaranteed loser, are they going to do the right thing and let their members know?

    If not, what happens after Prop 8 loses 40-60 (or worse), and then the members find out that the churches were privy all along to internal polling that predicted a crushing defeat? Do the members get their money back?

    Or do they get stuck paying for ads that were run by a campaign that knew it was going to lose but ran them anyway!
  • bsaunders
    I think this post raises an important point that is often buried in the discussion: Even 100 years ago, "husband and wife" did not mean "equal partners who are of opposite sexes." Husband was one role, assigned by biological sex; wife was another role. Marriage the institution encompassed those two complementary roles. In this construction, you don't have to even consider the question of homosexuality as an orientation or sexual practice. Biology = destiny.

    That's why I don't think all people who oppose same-sex marriage can be described as anti-gay. Some are, I'm sure. And at best, they are indifferent to the rights of gay people in the pursuit of an agenda to perpetuate gender role differentiation. Consider: Another (equally contentious unfortunately) issue is affected by the same dilemma. The corollary to a woman's unilateral "choice" to be a stay-at-home mother, for instance, is a man's obligation to be "the breadwinner." Some people believe stay-at-home dads are "unnatural." Try to extend those kinds of role assignments to same-sex couples, and you can't do it! At best, one member of the couple is off-role.

    I think that's what some people mean when they say the family will be "destabilized." (I don't agree with this; I do think it has to do with other concerns than homosexuality.)
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