“I look forward to a day where Israeli and Palestinian children live in peace.”

It says that we don't trust Barack Obama. My friends, all college-educated professionals, use words like "creepy" and "frightening" in reference to Sen. Obama.

Holly,
Funny, my friends, all college-educated professionals, use the same words to describe Billary.

David,
The booing would be comedic if it weren't so unnerving.

No Holly,

It says you and your friends are bigots. There was a lot of "college-educated professionals, who used words like "creepy" and "frightening" in reference to" African Americans during the pre-civil rights era (and some still do), so for you to use that as an excuse to not support Sen. Obama doesn't carry any water.

I guess its true Arabs are the new African American.

I listened to Mr. Aronson (first name forgotten),. an Israeli writer and intellectual, express a very gloomy view of the state of mind prevailing in Israel. According to him, Israelis are not able to internalize an identity other than that of a victim/warrior, the problem being that the warrior insists on fighting the same battles in the same way, even when the strategy is failing . His point, I think. was that hope has died and with it , the ability to look for a way out has died, as well.

If Mr. Aronson is on to something, then that is dangerous for Israel, indeed.
To survive, one must be able to adapt. To adapt, one must have enough imagination to envision new solutions, when the old methods fail.

When I made my comment earlier about Arabs being the new African American, I didn't know Glenn Greenwald had posted a similar comment yesterday in regards to racism and the current hatred towards Islam.

Take almost any one of their "thoughtful" screeds about Islam and do a global search/replace from "Islam" to "niggers" and the text becomes instantly recognizable. This racist energy had for a long time been at least partly directed towards "the Communists" but now that it isn't it is pretty much clear that Islam is now the designated nigger.

I guess Islam is the new Nigger


Holly,

This is what you and your "college educated friends" are now preaching, the modern day version of Jim Crow.

You commenters are rather ignorant - please go educate yourselves about the Middle East. Myself, I think Sen. Obama is more like a bunny rabbit. John McCain will eat him up. Sen. Obama reminds me a bit of the Pied Piper, too, and it's difficult to understand how anyone can support him

Holly,

Congratulations. You're constant, mindless vocalizations against Obama are finally driving me to remove TMV from my RSS. I've had all of you I can take.

Donna

While I don't agree with Holly's view, I don't agree with Chris or Loviatar, either.

It doesn't help to oversimplify or stereotype either the Israelis or the Palestinians.
The Palestinians are locked into their own internatl narrative and their self-identity as victims without responsibility. The tragedy of both is that they can't seem to honor the past without getting stuck in it.

As for bigotry, everyone always spots the bigotry aimed at you, while few bother to notice the bigotry emanating from you. That's an equal-opportunity shortcoming, all around.




Neither side seems to want peace now; they want revenge.

Blacks in the US began to advance when they adapted and decided to succeed inspite of injustice .

Holly,
Your magnificent education on the Middle East has led you to believe that children living in peace is bad?

What part of my view don't you agree with exactly? :-)

Yeah, Holly I have to say: I'm not sure how "mistrust" of Obama (based on what, precisely?) leads to or justifies booing the prospect of peace. This has nothing to do with educated knowledge of the conflict. This has everything to do with our collective vision of the future. And anyone -- Jewish or Arab or otherwise -- who can't sign on to a vision of a region where everyone's children are safe and secure is not someone I include as part of my community.

There is nothing Obama has ever said or indicated that is more creepy than booing peace for Palestinians....or defending the jeers. That's ethnic hatred in a nutshell. It's terrifying.

I am a Jew with an Aunt and Cousins living in Jerusalem. We all like Obama and share the dream of a two state solution with people living in peace and harmony.
Many Israeli's support trading land for peace and are embarrassed by the attention the least peace loving among them are getting.

ChrisWWW asked:
"What part of my view don't you agree with exactly? "

I dont't know if this was asked of me or of Holly, but here's my answer, anyway.

You've locked onto who you see as the guilty party in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and you seem to see it all :with cartoon like clarity: Snow White and the Wicked Witch. Instead, the situation is as mired in complexity as the history of the ME is long. Victims and victimizers tumble all over each other.

Obama presented the case that both Rev. Wright and his bigoted white grandmother have to be understood within the context of their expeirences and influences. Then we move on.
That's the only workable attitude, IMO. But it wouldn't work for Obama if he only understoon one of these two figures in his life and jettisoned the other.
The same is true in Palestine.

If I remember correctly, you're an Obama fan.
Why not learn from him?

domajot,
Yeah, that question was meant for you. I forgot to put your name in the comment. Doh!

I'm certain this won't come as a surprise to you, but I disagree with your characterization of my position concerning Israel & the occupied territories as having cartoonish clarity.

While I heap my fair share of scorn on certain actions of the Israeli government, I can't and don't deny the monstrous actions of the Palestinians.

It was only a matter of time before the unrelenting hatred of grps like Hamas was mirrored in the isralies and their supporters. They need not one, but two truly charismatic leaders, one on each side if they are ever going to see a lasting peace. One where both sides keep to their agreements even in the face of violence designed to derail peace. I won't be holding my breath.

My friends, all college-educated professionals, use words like "creepy" and "frightening" in reference to Sen. Obama.

Don't feel bad. Apparantly his grandmother sometimes harbored similar irrational feelings.

And as much as Black-White relations has been talked about recently, black and white folks are living in peace (albeit a snap, crackle, and pop peace at times) after a particularly nasty history. You have to hope for the day that Israeli and Palestinian children live in peace. To not have the hope gives you nothing to work towards except continued strife.

I don't think "Jewish support" is as important as it was previously. The groups that purport to speak for us Jews, really speak to a diminishing minority of Likud-centered supporters.

They can deliver a minority of the Jewish vote, a minority that is shrinking each year. In 2006 the Democrats received over 85% of the Jewish vote, in spite of constant Republican support of these traditional Jewish political groups.

What these groups did deliver is a lot of money. The rise of internet fund raising diminishes the dependence on such funds.

I don't see anyone acknowledging what it would take for people who live in the occupied territories to believe that their children can live in peace and what it would take for people who live in the state of Israel to believe that their children can live in peace.

What exactly might that be?

One element is trust - trust that this is what both populations want.

WE might want that for them - but there are factions in both populations that don't wish peace for the other population. Some of these groups don't wish peace for the others, ever, and are willing to continue to kidnap and shoot rockets in the case of Hamas in particular, or move into settlements in the case of the right-wing Israelis.

When you write about or express the fading of hope, how do you think you would feel living in these conditions, just psychological, let alone physically for more than 40 years, some might say forever practically?

Think, imagine, put yourself in their place - in their places.

Unless you have lived there, and I don't mean some touristy trip to all the important sites, I really just don't know if you can comprehend the pervasiveness of the problems and the stamina, in general, that must be preserved to carry on.

This isn't drama - for the people trying to survive there, it's reality.