Guns, Aurora, and George Zimmerman


Jul 24, 2012 by

WASHINGTON – IN THE GAPING MAW of our leadership vacuum stands Aurora Police Chief Daniel Oates, whose resolve, vulnerability and humility inside the vortex of a man made hell revealed what nobody in Congress or either political party has shown in decades. Leadership without regard to anything but his own duty to the people, which included the cops in the eye of volcanic carnage. Over a thousand miles away, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg used his voice and the power of his office to challenge the two contenders for the presidency, Pres. Obama and Mitt Romney, to do something besides talk. Don’t hold your breath.

“With that drum magazine, he could have gotten off 50, 60 rounds, even if it was semiautomatic, within one minute,” Chief Oates said. [New York Times]

What foreshadowed the calamity on Friday, in a weird instant of synchronistic scheduling, came in the closing moments of last Sunday’s “The Newsroom” episode, when a childish adult soap opera gave way to the real live drama surrounding the shooting of Gabrille Giffords in 2011. In a split second moment where decisions become destiny, the fictional news anchor Will McAvoy listened to his team and refused to follow all of the other news organizations in pronouncing the fate of Rep. Giffords, because every one of them had followed the leader, NPR, who ended up getting it wrong.


Fast forward, inconvenient facts from the New York Times:

Mr. Holmes was detained by the police soon afterward, standing by his white Hyundai. He was identified by the authorities as a former Ph.D. student at the University of Colorado in Denver, and an honors graduate in neuroscience from the University of California, Riverside. He had in the car an AR-15 assault rifle, a Remington 12-gauge shotgun, and a .40 caliber Glock handgun, said Chief Dan Oates of the Aurora police, and all three were believed to have been used inside the theater. Another Glock .40 caliber handgun was recovered inside the theater. Chief Oates said that “many, many” rounds were fired, but that there was no count so far.

In the last 60 days Mr. Holmes had purchased four guns at local gun shops, Chief Oates said. And through the Internet, he bought more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition: more than 3,000 rounds for the assault rifle, 3,000 rounds of .40 caliber ammunition for the two Glocks, and 300 rounds for the 12-gauge shotgun. The guns were all bought legally, a federal law enforcement official said.

N.R.A. groupies are gathering, as gun safety advocates feel the wind beneath them yet again. Think Progress blares this headline in an ode to the vanquished: Expired Assault Weapons Ban Would Have Covered Rifle Used In Colorado Shooting.

It might have been convincing if they’d used “could” instead of “would,” but even then it’s absolute rubbish.

Assault weapons ban doesn’t ban assault weapons. Banning massive assault clips of tens of bullets won’t really ban them. Both provide a bromide for people ignorant of the gun lobby and firearm industry’s reach and the fact that people can also make a silencer themselves. It’s why people like my husband, a gun expert and someone who has owned some of the most fierce weaponry available, including the most beautiful sniper rifle I’ve ever seen, don’t support this type of legislation. What I’ve learned from him and studying the gun industry is that component parts can always be purchased by those knowing where to get them or just following the gun shows or reading certain newspapers.

That doesn’t mean an effort to confront the N.R.A. isn’t worthy, overdue and important, with the very “banning” efforts worth the energy, if only to send the message, rally ordinary citizens who have a right to live in this country and feel safe without being told they need to be armed. I write this as a gun owner and someone who’s fired an M-16, as well as other weaponry and who has no intention of living without a firearm in my home ever again. As long time readers know, I encouraged my husband to get a conceal carry permit for his own safety; a man who still has part of a .22 caliber bullet in his gut from when two young thugs confronted him and shot him, an assault from which he almost died, as he was walking away from turning on a customer’s gas in what used to be known as “the projects” in a depressed area of Las Vegas. Every time one of these shootings occurs my husband feels what the recovering victims are going through and we have the same conversation. He loathes the N.R.A. and believes they are way too extreme in their politics.

Despite the changes over the past 13 years, Colorado law still prohibits local governments from restricting gun rights in several significant ways. Moreover, gun rights organizations have successfully fought other efforts to restrict access to guns, including blocking a University of Colorado rule prohibiting concealed weapons on campus. People in Colorado are allowed to carry firearms in a vehicle, loaded or unloaded, as long as the gun is intended for lawful uses like personal protection or protecting property. – Colorado Gun Laws Remain Lax, Despite Some Changes

The N.R.A. operates with political immunity, buying our politicians and rallying the faithful, while citizens who don’t fancy firearms are made to feel sheepish, and act cowardly as a result, while not putting their fury into action by joining one of the groups who combat the N.R.A. every day. Democrats have ducked the assault weapons ban, including Rep. Giffords, for fear of getting voted out of office and not being able to do important other works. People have a choice on whether to amass to stand opposite the N.R.A., offering voter cover for politicians who acknowledge the Second Amendment, but have evolved enough philosophically and politically to understand that in our violently modern world there should be strict enforcement, met by technological advancements like micro-stamping technology, to compel the N.R.A. to be responsible in the new world reality, instead of a chief enabler of societal violence, while marginalizing a silent majority of people who don’t arm themselves out of choice. Who’s representing their rights in Congress or the White House? Why aren’t these Americans demanding representation? Until they do in large numbers nothing will change.

History has also shown that we won’t ever stop the lone gunman determined to kill.

Naming enablers and propagandists of violence matters, like the N.R.A., which continually chooses a path of irresponsibility for capitalism’s sake, with those in the political arena far guiltier than any movie or video game. Anyone saying using the Aurora shooting for “political gains” is shameful is likely in the pocket of the N.R.A. and is employing the plan these advocates always do, which is to shame opponents and make them feel un-American for believing that the Second Amendment wasn’t intended to infringe on their rights to feel safe without being armed.

Sugue to Sean Hannity, who began his radio show on Friday by lecturing everyone not to politicize the massacre in Aurora, Colorado. By the middle of the first hour he was squealing about ABC’s Brian Ross, who made an unvetted, unprofessional snap judgment for which they were forced to apologize, because he coupled the shooter in Aurora with the Tea Party. Hannity immediately attached Ross with “the left,” because in today’s America, everyone chooses their own facts. There is no evidence whatsoever that Mr. Ross is associated with “the left,” which barely exists today. The second caller on his show went on a bender, railing against Democrats, bringing the Gabrielle Giffords shooting into the mix, with Hitler brought in for dramatic affect. The next caller raised the issue of gun control in New York City.

Everyone’s reacting, while simultaneously shrugging, what can we do? Who knew? How this could ever happen in a movie theater, let alone 13 miles away from where the Columbine slaughter occurred, is just too much to contemplate. So we don’t.

Meanwhile, anyone want to bet the N.R.A. is marshaling it’s offenses, preparing to go into battle in a public campaign that will include making sure politicians know why their campaign coffers stay full and on whose side they need to be?

The Sunday, cable and radio shows ready to book their segments in timely little allotments, making sure all sides are represented, with no one today having the gravitas to actually lead the conversation with a mission of finding answers to questions and let “balance” fall where it might amid the truth. Across the board there are tortured efforts of false equivalency, as if facts and truth have sides, though today that’s the template.

A guy over at the amusingly named “Reason” site, took aim at the Brady campaign’s reaction to the shooting, then went into a defensive crouch over gun laws, which mimics a lot of reactions on the right.

Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas, one of Michele Bachmann’s McCarthyite pals, whom the Washington Post called out in an op-ed yesterday, blamed the carnage on the “ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs,” then wondered why no one at the midnight premiere of the movie was armed to take down the assassin. David Weigel responded. It’s why arming teachers and students remains an open campaign. Remember Virginia Tech, they say.

Now let me now get down in the gutter with Sean Hannity and his surreal interview with George Zimmerman, who’s out on $1 million bond after being charged with second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin, through the right of a concealed carry. It’s no coincidence Hannity was the first to speak to Zimmerman, who called him after the shooting, at a time his own attorneys couldn’t reach him. In the interview, exactly as Hannity did Friday on his show, while preening about the importance of keeping politics out of the conversation, when speaking to George Zimmerman, Hannity couldn’t help but single out Al Sharpton, which not only brought politics into the discussion, but race, too, Hannity’s objective. Whether you like Sharpton or not, he’s been overtly active in racial confrontations his entire life, so anyone thinking his being on MSNBC mattered has not been paying attention. That Sean Hannity uses his show for political purposes every day, but that’s okay, reveals his unethical hypocrisy.

George Zimmerman sat emotionless as he talked, with his attorney beside him, but it was Sean Hannity who did most of the talking, leading Zimmerman in the telling of his story, which included some gobsmacking quotes. He didn’t regret anything the night of the shooting. He didn’t regret getting out of the car that fatal night. He would do nothing differently that night. He put words in Trayvon Martin’s mouth, saying the teen threatened him by saying, “You’re going to die tonight [obscenity deleted].” Alleging that Martin then went for his gun. He apologized to the Martin family, too.

Zimmerman also unloaded this obscenity.

“I feel that it was all God’s plan and for me to second guess it or judge it…” – George Zimmerman

God didn’t have a part in the planning Zimmerman’s actions or his killing of Trayvon Martin that left him alive. George Zimmerman may be found not-guilty of second-degree murder, but he’s sure as hell not innocent.

If God was the puppet George Zimmerman thinks She is, you’d have to apply this obscene correlation to the Holmes massacre in Aurora, Colorado, which is offensive on its face.

You’d have to apply it to the Gabrille Giffords shooting, Virginia Tech, Columbine and on and on.

A killer putting himself on the side of his “God,” enabled by Sean Hannity through his use of his media platforms, while he points at Al Sharpton, with the dead African American teen, the actual victim of a man with a concealed carry and a penchant for neighborhood heroism, who took his life, getting a prime time stage to say “he’s not a racist.” Oh, and he would say he was sorry if he did anything wrong, so the media should say they’re sorry to him, too. The killer turned victim by virtue of concealed carry, stand your ground, “self defense.” Not one question about why a man with a concealed carry was so irresponsible as to create the situation that had him getting out of his car to interact with Trayvon Martin in the first place.

This is what passes for “justice” in this country today, splattered across flat screens from one coast to another, while Fox News rakes in the ratings.

And people wonder why the N.R.A. is fearless?

James Holmes, the shooter identified in the Aurora slaughter, is a guy in the social media age who was called an “online ghost” by Mashable editor Lance Ulanoff. Holmes obviously plotted and planned the massacre, methodically booby-trapping his apartment so thoroughly that SWAT didn’t dare enter the door, while evacuating the surrounding neighborhood. In Aurora, bomb experts have disabled a tripwire and an incendiary device rigged to blow on entry, but they’ve got a long way to go.

God doesn’t plan these things, human beings out for blood do.

If you looked at Memeorandum on Friday, the listing of what was trending was filled with right-wing attacks on ABC News that were earned, as well as finger-pointing at “the left,” but the Tea Party is undeserving of becoming the news or the “victim.” They’re a group who has applauded the actions of open carry at political rallies, so there is photographic proof that they’re one of the enablers of threats and violence in our society, though not all Tea Partiers are to blame. There was one single, solitary article challenging leading politicians on guns. By even lauding Bloomberg’s efforts I’m sure someone will bring up his Wall Street ties and what that evilness means, even if it has nothing to do with his efforts on illegal firearms.

From Sean Hannity inserting himself and methodically manipulating the media coverage in the Trayvon Martin murder case to Michele Bachmann’s McCarthyism to ABC’s Brian Ross’s amateur mistake that wrongly tied the Tea Party to the Aurora shooter, juxtaposed against John Sununu saying he wished Pres. Obama would learn to be an American, which was followed by Mitt Romney reciting the word “foreign” multiple times in a speech in reference to the President’s policies, the picture being painted of this country should embarrass us all.

But it won’t. The same political system that has failed us immeasurably, we count all the ways day after day, will limp along throughout this election year, with partisan pom poms distracting people from the inevitable mind numbing outcome that renders results that are always the same: less representation of the people.

When people try to move outside the corrupt political system to challenge the status quo that’s killing this country, because Democratic and Republican leaders have led us to this fate, they’re vilified and arrogantly lectured that everything will be their fault if –insert your favorite candidate here– is not elected. Few stop to consider or try to understand the message these people are sending to partisan fans. They couldn’t possibly have something to say, a clue to what’s gone wrong. The partisan never stops to think that if the politicians offered actual solutions for the people they wouldn’t be losing voters. Independents, squishy as they are because they can’t see any leadership worth supporting, have been the canary in the American democracy mine for decades. Maybe gun safety advocates will start pressuring politicians to do something, so instead of guns being a third rail, as Eliot Spitzer calls it in the video at the top of this column, it will be an issue on which people hinge their vote, so that more independents are created from disaffected Ds and Rs, so something starts to really shift. Because as much as Republicans are in the bag for the N.R.A., Democrats aren’t any better, with the outcome clear.

Twelve dead in Aurora, Colorado, with at 59 wounded and that’s not counting the damaged hearts and minds.

An unarmed African American teen shot dead by a citizen with a concealed carry craving hero worship, instead of leaving the situation to the police.

A teen opens fire in Chardon, Ohio, killing and wounding students.

A shooting rampage at a California Christian university over a tuition dispute.

A teen in Texas turns a gun on a fellow student, with the police having to “take him out.”

A 9-year-old boy brings a .45-caliber handgun to his elementary school and it discharges from inside his backpack, critically wounding another kid.

Another from the Fox News list: “A 6-year-old boy accidentally fired a gun inside Ross Elementary School in Houston, Texas, injuring himself and two other children.”

A 15 year-old shoots another student Martinsville West Middle School in Martinsville, Ind.

In 2006: Eric Hainstock, 15, took a shotgun from his father’s gun cabinet and a .22-caliber revolver from his father’s bedroom to his school in rural Cazenovia, Wis., and fatally shot the principal.

March 21, 2005: With his own .22-caliber handgun, and his grandfather’s Glock handgun and 12-gauge shotgun, Jeff Weise, 16, shot and killed his grandfather, a policeman and his grandfather’s girlfriend at their home, then went to his high school, also on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota, and fatally shot eight people, including himself.

April 24, 2003: James Sheets, 14, shot and killed principal Eugene Segro in the crowded cafeteria at the Red Lion Area Junior High School in south-central Pennsylvania before killing himself. Police determined that Sheets used a key to take three guns from his stepfather’s gun safe.

May 26, 2000: Nathaniel Brazill, 13, killed his English teacher at Lake Worth Community High School in Lake Worth, Fla. According to police, Brazill stole the .25-caliber semi-automatic pistol from his grandfather’s house.

Feb. 29, 2000: A 6-year-old boy from Mount Morris Township, Mich., killed classmate Kayla Rolland, also 6, at Buell Elementary School with a .32-caliber semiautomatic handgun left in an open shoebox. The boy and his mother had been staying at the home of his uncle and his uncle’s friend, Jamelle James, 19. James, who kept the gun in the shoebox, spent 2 1/2 years in prison after pleading no contest to involuntary manslaughter.

The examples above are from one Fox News link. Suck on that, Second Amendment advocates, of which I’m one, except I draw the line at enabling violence promoters, which includes the N.R.A., politicians who pledge allegiance to that group, and any media personality who does their bidding.

Americans just keep going ’round and ’round in the hamster wheel of recurring events, with our yearly tragedies multiplying and bringing moments of silence, prayers and split second moralizing how it’s not guns or politics or men, and it’s certainly nothing that could be wrong with American policies or that people can do something about this.

In God we trust, so it must be “God’s plan,” which is as good an excuse as any to keep from looking at our society, which just keeps spinning further out of control, in a country that can’t feed it’s poor, employ its people, or solve our nation’s problems.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

We’re addicted all right. Addicted to violence against each other, ourselves, our planet, our “enemies,” our friends, our environment, the very world that sustains us and there’s no evidence anywhere that enough people want to get off the merry-go-round we’ve been on for decades to change the direction in which we’re hurling.

Into this stepped Aurora Police Chief Daniel Oates. He reminded everyone of what’s possible in a leader. Watching Gov. John Hickenlooper, whom former Gov. Bill Owens called “the father of Colorado today,” while he worked mightily to frame the words from a mind muddled from lack of sleep, we were seeing a man off script, speaking from the heart and praying the people would translate his message as he barely begins to bring his state back from death’s grip.

The nation watches.

But what will people do about it?

“The gun prohibition people tried to use Gabrielle Giffords and the Trayvon Martin case to get their cause going again, and weren’t particularly successful with that,” he said. At the state level, he added, having fought pitched battles over gun rights since the 1980s, “we’re at a reasonably well settled point,” and “the legislature is not that interested in opening it up again.” Mr. Volokh said the fragmentary information available so far about Mr. Holmes and the attack did not make a strong case for reform. [The New York Times]

Taylor Marsh, a veteran political analyst and former Huffington Post contributor, is the author of The Hillary Effect, available at Barnes and Noble and on Amazon. Her new-media blog www.taylormarsh.com covers national politics, women and power.

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18 Comments

  1. Taylor,

    Wow.

    I’ve been harsh on your posts in the past, but I really like this one. You’ve touched wonderfully on all the angles that makes this entire debate, never mind any proposed solution, absolutely maddening.

    I do have to comment on this:

    Assault weapons ban doesn’t ban assault weapons. Banning massive assault clips of tens of bullets won’t really ban them. Both provide a bromide for people ignorant of the gun lobby and firearm industry’s reach and the fact that people can also make a silencer themselves. It’s why people like my husband, a gun expert and someone who has owned some of the most fierce weaponry available, including the most beautiful sniper rifle I’ve ever seen, don’t support this type of legislation. What I’ve learned from him and studying the gun industry is that component parts can always be purchased by those knowing where to get them or just following the gun shows or reading certain newspapers.

    We can’t detect or eliminate nutbags who would do this type of thing. On that we (should) all agree. But shouldn’t we take steps to impede their work and reduce the extent of the damage they can do when they do snap?

    Let’s ban the automatic/semi-automatic assault weapons (by using definitions, not just model numbers as was done during the Clinton era). Let’s ban high-capacity weapons (say, for the sake of argument, anything holding more than 11 rounds — 10 in cartridge, 1 in chamber. Or 13. Or 21. Or whatever makes rational sense). Let’s ban the sale of add-ons that turn normal weapons into automatic/semi-automatic/ assault/high-cap weapons (by whatever definitions we chose & make sense). And for a carrot, let’s add in a licensing provisions so gun ranges & shooting clubs can own & rent these weapons for use on their own premises (just so people can still shoot them if they want to see how it feels).

    Then, at the very least, it will be harder for these nutjobs to inflict massive casualties. They’ll either have to forego the glories of firing 40-50 rounds a minute into a crowd of people and do it the old-fashioned way (which may give people a better chance of surviving or fighting back)*, or they’ll have to work for months scrounging parts and dodging the law to make their homemade toys (which should increase the likelihood of a technical malfunction).

    What infuriates me about this case is it appears Holmes did all of this via mail order from the comfort of his own home, with no more difficulty than ordering a latte from Starbucks.

    Shouldn’t we at least make it hard for these folks??

    I hate the idea of simply surrendering.

    * There have been claims that his assault rifle jammed. Has that been proven yet?

  2. EEllis

    Banning doesn’t mean banning and wont accomplish anything but we should try and do it anyway?

    the N.R.A., which continually chooses a path of irresponsibility for capitalism’s sake

    While some supporters, namely gun companies, might support the “NRA” agenda for profit, the idea that the ideologs in and of the NRA are doing so for “capitalism’s sake” goes beyond absurd. Like them or hate them it has squat to do with money.

    And with all honesty I’m getting tired of the blatant exploitation of the dead for those who are pushing gun control. NONE of the bs that is being proposed would do anything to have stopped or limited this attack at all. Sure every couple of years we have a random nutjob who tries to get the biggest bodycount they can and it’s sad. So? We gleefully allow massive body counts so we can drive faster, while texting. More people died today from flu and pneumonia than this. There are double the number of suicides than homicides in this country and accidents happen at three times the rate of suicides; Sure it’s tragic but get real! You want gun control then it needs to be something that will have some effect more than maybe onece every couple of years. Otherwise, thank go and the NRA, it won’t happen. You lnow I’ve heard so much bashing of the NRA and it’s made me thing. Every gun course I’ve ever taken is based off one the NRA has developed. The have massive safety and training courses, self defense and hunting, but lately all I hear is how the evil NRA refuses to allow gun control by some evil combination of political power over elected officials and unnatural mind control of citizens. Well you know what if they stop idiots from passing useless laws then maybe I need to rethink my feeling on the NRA.

  3. I, too, appreciated the angle, tone, and expansiveness of this piece.

    Along these same lines — As a result of all the dialogue and discussion here at TMV the last few days, I spent my morning pulling up “massacres” in the history of the United States. Starting in the 1960s, I then read as much info as I could about each perpetrator — a tedious and incredibly depressing five hours or so. I read, too, about the weapons used, and how they were acquired.

    What I learned, in all this yuck and muck, was that the common denominator was… insanity.

    And although that is certainly a self-evident finding, fact is the VAST majority of perpetrators DID have a history of violence and mental illness. There are only a very very small handful (like the Aurora shooter) who had not come to the attention at one point or another of the authorities.

    So although I appreciate Barky’s position (and even relate to it), I don’t think it’s correct to say there is no way to detect any of this. It seems that there is an unfortunate lack of communication between some agencies (VA Tech had this issue), as well as reluctance on the part of others (family / friends / schools) to acknowledge what was so obvious in hindsight.

  4. While some supporters, namely gun companies, might support the “NRA” agenda for profit, the idea that the ideologs in and of the NRA are doing so for “capitalism’s sake” goes beyond absurd. Like them or hate them it has squat to do with money.

    Sorry, you’ve jumped the shark with that one. Of course it’s money. Gun sales are big business and have been. Is it ALL money? No. Is money a huge part of it? Absolutely.

  5. So although I appreciate Barky’s position (and even relate to it), I don’t think it’s correct to say there is no way to detect any of this. It seems that there is an unfortunate lack of communication between some agencies (VA Tech had this issue), as well as reluctance on the part of others (family / friends / schools) to acknowledge what was so obvious in hindsight.

    But wouldn’t the necessary detection methods involve tremendous violations of civil liberties? Do we really expect family & friends to rat out each other? Do we really want to mark people who have problems with school in some sort of NND (National Nutcase Database)? I’ve already heard people elsewhere suggest “he had no internet social networking presence, he must be crazy”. Seriously? No Facebook account = NND?

    IMO, the mechanisms that would be used to detect nutcases before they purchase a gun would be WAYYYYYY more “liberty invasive” than any gun control could possibly be. It would make the Patriot Act look like a meter maid.

  6. slamfu

    “And with all honesty I’m getting tired of the blatant exploitation of the dead for those who are pushing gun control.”

    Well, while I agree with you overall, I don’t think this is exploiting the dead anymore than its exploiting the dead when we push for mine safety standards after a catastrophic mine collapse. Its precisely for the sake of the dead this argument is taking place. Trying to imply that a tragedy is being politicized and that’s a bad thing is silly. People are tying to take political action to solve what they see as a problem, it is automatically “politicized” by definition, and is not invalidated as a cause because of that.

    Me, I just wish either no one carried guns or everyone did. Since no one carrying a gun seems to be completely out of the question both politically and practically speaking in a society that has between 250 and 300 million firearms in the possession of the general public, we are just going to have to make do with the situation as is.

  7. Barky — The VA Tech shooter had a looooong mental illness history. The kid on the Red Lake Reservation had been virtually broadcasting his intent for nearly a year. The guy in PA who killed his entire family @ Thanksgiving (and then randomly killed some others) had been scaring his family so badly, the dad had gone around to all the local gun dealers and asked them to please not sell any to his son (who was an adult).

    It isn’t JUST the mental health — it’s the combination with violence / violent ideation, as well as access to (purchase of / in the home) weapons.

    Individually and separately — mental health, history of violence, weapons — are not necessarily lethal. In combination, though, they are lethal. And there do seem to be patterns (at least to my eyes).

    So… does somebody with a domestic violence get a flag? No. Does somebody writing that he thinks a certain group of people should be dead get a flag? No. Does somebody who owns weapons get a flag? No.

    Combine them, though? I think maybe yes…

  8. Barky says:

    Taylor,

    Wow. [...]

    heh-heh… You got a chuckle from me off the top. Appreciate it very much.

    The biggest aspect of “surrendering” is allowing the NRA to have the political playing field it does, with politicians in a position to support them or risk their careers. Some how people have got to empower organizations to join together so they can hit back at the NRA’s lobbying power.

    Citizens can’t do anything close to the actual actions you’re suggesting unless the NRA has a counter in the public arena and it can’t be “gun control” advocates only.

    Gun owners against the NRA’s overreaching power & extremism have to be part of crafting the solution. The NRA mounted a campaign against the UN Gun Control Treaty, which Pres Obama is reportedly going to sign, which doesn’t impact American domestic gun ownership. When Wayne LaPierre was interviewed on CNN about the treaty he made a fool of himself.

    As for money, anyone who thinks this isn’t about profit and the industry is kidding him- or herself.

    We don’t know the details about the Aurora shooter, but until I know the facts I’m not going to assume “insanity.” The planning I’ve read about and the details of acquiring the weaponry is very impressive, methodical and coherently organized, as was the booby-trapping of his apartment.

    We all need to be very careful assuming people are “insane” or “mentally unstable,” because rage can also be involved, which isn’t necessarily attached to mental illness. That said, obviously, the lack of mental health assistance in this country is something real.

    slamfu – I go to what we learned after the carnage. The gun range who had a freaky voicemail, then alerted the staff, but didn’t send the name to police.

    Maybe police wouldn’t have investigated until too late, but it was a clue. Owners of gun ranges aren’t always willing to come forward, due to their business, but it’s one of those things that is worthy of discussion.

    Background checks, database, technology on bullets, there are things, though the latest “guided bullet” breakthrough has got to scare the crap out of police.

    The only way anything happens is if police and politicians join forces, among others, to take on the NRA and their allies.

  9. dduck

    Another example of synchronicity from the “Newsroom” program was the mention that Obama promised some gun control and then did nothing (sorry don’t remember actual quote). I think this is all about history repeating itself or else Sorkin is prescient.

  10. EEllis

    Sorry, you’ve jumped the shark with that one. Of course it’s money.

    Cold dead hands is about money? Keep lying to yourself

  11. EEllis

    But wouldn’t the necessary detection methods involve tremendous violations of civil liberties? Do we really expect family & friends to rat out each other? Do we really want to mark people who have problems with school in some sort of NND (National Nutcase Database)? I’ve already heard people elsewhere suggest “he had no internet social networking presence, he must be crazy”. Seriously? No Facebook account = NND?

    IMO, the mechanisms that would be used to detect nutcases before they purchase a gun would be WAYYYYYY more “liberty invasive” than any gun control could possibly be. It would make the Patriot Act look like a meter maid.

    I don’t believe it needs to be. While it will not cover everyone just reporting people who have been deemed incompetent, who have been committed or treated inpatient within say 5 years, and perhaps those on certain meds. The Feds would have to fund the States reporting and there would have to be privacy laws put in place so that none of the info could every be used or released for any reason with very strong penalties for any abuse. That and there should be a cost free and reasonable way to have your name removed if get on the list and are not a danger. Say you went to rehab, voluntary or not, that shouldn’t matter once you are done.

  12. EEllis

    As for money, anyone who thinks this isn’t about profit and the industry is kidding him- or herself.

    Money for who? The NRA leadership, members, supporters, sponsors? Honestly the attempts by some to somehow illegitimize the NRA and others is just weak. At the same time as they are a bunch of paranoid gun crazed nuts they are also all about the money. It just comes off as stupid. Now does the funding are of the NRA play up and exaggerate everything they possible can to try and get donations and funding? I assume so, it’s the nature of the beast. For the members it has nothing to do with money and honestly for most in the “industry” I doubt it matters much if any to them. The little names are there because it’s something they enjoy, believe in, and hopefully make money in. The big names? Well Colt, S&W, etc are going to make bucks no mater what. They are established and have money to weather any temp problems and very well may end up doing better in the long run. Saying it’s about the money is a way of trying to diminish ones opponent by trivializing their belief, commitment, etc. In this case it wouldn’t be believed by those who sympathize with the NRA and could lead to a grave underestimation of the lengths many will go to to combat what they believe is govt encroachment on a constitutional right. Many are deadly serious when they say cold dead hands and pretending otherwise is pure stupidity.

    The only way anything happens is if police and politicians join forces, among others, to take on the NRA and their allies.

    Wouldn’t count on the rank and file in the police. NRA is very active in that area with training, sponsorship, charity, and any and everything they can.

  13. zephyr

    Taylor, speaking as a gun owner and hunter who loathes the NRA I greatly appreciated your post. It’s terribly disappointing to see the lack of backbone when it comes to confronting the NRA. Of course there are some exceptions to this, but not in the halls of “power” where it is expected.

    ” Like them or hate them it has squat to do with money.”

    Utter nonsense.

    “As for money, anyone who thinks this isn’t about profit and the industry is kidding him- or herself.”

    Bingo.

    How many more insane people killing large numbers of civilians using weapons designed only for killing other people enmasse will it take before this epidemic in our culture is honestly and forthrightly addressed??

  14. EEllis

    How many more insane people killing large numbers of civilians using weapons designed only for killing other people enmasse will it take before this epidemic in our culture is honestly and forthrightly addressed??

    Well you tell us since you can’t even make a post without fudging reality a bit. The gun is not a military arm it does not shoot a military cartridge and it has vast number of legal uses chambered in the most popular cartridge in the US. But if we can demonize it a bit then maybe we can get the ball rolling in the direction we want. Hell how anyone so unconcerned with facts calls out anyone is beyond me.

  15. EEllis

    I think I got a bit worked up again and went over the top and I apologize if I offend anyone. It does however show part of the problem. People say “Why can’t they just be reasonable” but try and start the conversation off with incorrect info and facts that just aren’t. zephyr sees a military firearm when he looks at the pictures. I know it isn’t so where do we start. It’s like saying the H2 is a military vehical!

  16. dduck

    Two points; It is totally impractical too screen everyone for potential homicidal tendencies.
    Gun manufacture is a business, and I don’t blame them for trying to make money and portraying gun ownership in a good light and minimize negative images and incidents.
    But, I also am old enough to remember TV ads with real doctors promoting cigarette use.
    Sometimes it is about money, there are tons of examples of corporate greed and lobbying to protect their business, not just the gun business.

  17. Dduck, not only is screening impractical but it would also be far more intrusive into civil liberties than any gun law.

    In order to meet a 3-day turnaround, you would need a rapid database. And because we would never know who would want to buy a gun, the rapid database would cover EVERYONE. So God forbid you anger someone who wants to get back on you by fabricating a report to the ATT. Or if you have to drop out of a doctoral degree program. BAM: instance entry into the National Nutcase Database.