Should Prostitution Be Legalized?
So Deputy Secretary of State Randall L. Tobias has resigned after confirming that he was a customer of a Washington, D.C., escort service whose owner has been charged with running a prostitution operation.
Tobias was the Bush administration’s so-called “AIDS czar” and emphasized faithfulness and abstinence over condom use to prevent the spread of AIDS. But let’s put aside his rank hypocrisy and that of some other social conservatives (Mark Foley was a child predator, Ted Haggard was an antigay homosexual, and so on and so forth) and move on to a more pertinent question.
Should prostitution be legalized?
Tobias’s departure brings to 32 the number of Bush administration officials or nominees who have been convicted, copped pleas, indicted or otherwise brought down by scandal. Here is a somewhat outdated list. It does not include Tobias or Robert E. Coughlin II, who was deputy chief of staff of the embattled Justice Department’s criminal division until he was tied to convicted super lobbyist Jack Abramoff whom, um, Coughlin’s colleagues are investigating.
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31 Responses to “Should Prostitution Be Legalized?”
It’s a tricky question to me. I think I’d have to say yes, since prostitution is going to exist no matter what you do, and legalizing would allow it to be regulated and controlled. You can’t offer vaccination programs or prosecute pimps if the very profession doesn’t legally exist.
Mind you, I wish prostitution didn’t exist, most especially because virtually no person ends up as a prostitute because of happy circumstances in life, but neither do people who become strippers, and it’s still legal. The essential question is do we consider paying for sex immoral. I don’t, I just think it’s pathetic, sad, and can’t imagine how it could be even vaguely satisfying.
Advantage of keeping it illegal? None that I can see. There will still be prostitutes, and I hardly think that legalizing it would encourage women (face it, it’s mostly women) to become prostitutes because it’s now “OK”. Being a porn actress is perfectly legal, and I can’t see that girls are rushing to the job. I’d love to hear the reason that makes that “better” than being a prostitute. It’s better to be a prostitute if you do it on camera?
Advantage to making it legal? Regulation! You could force it indoors, for starters. You could force medical certificates for all prostitutes, and take the damn pimps out of the business by making it a more corporate affair. Prostitutes could get medical insurance, could get a real job, with a pay that didn’t depend on how greedy the pimp was feeling that afternoon. The old mentality holds that prostitutes “deserve” their bad treatment for being immoral, but we all know that many of them aren’t where they are by choice. Legalization would shine a bright light into that awful business, hopefully helping some women out of it.
Having grown up in an area infested w drugs and hookers, both shd be legalized.
BTW- I know a very powerful sitting NY politician who not only was a regular john in my old nabe, but a bag boy for the Mob. Just waiting for him to die before I name him.
Lynx: ‘most especially because virtually no person ends up as a prostitute because of happy circumstances in life’
That’s a myth. Most prostitutes are indoors, as well, and are invisible. Streetwalkers represent perhaps 10-15% of all prostitutes. Most prostitutes go into the biz because they love sex, they love power, or they see it as an easy way to earn cash for college or a lifestyle they want. The idea that all hookers are unhappy is wrong. The majority of streetwalkers w pimps- yes, but the other 85% are rather content with their job.
cosmoetica if that’s true then all the more reason to regulate the affair. It’s a trade, if one that most of us find distasteful, it needs to be regulated. Maybe the degree of willingness for the job varies by country. In Spain, though there are SOME prostitutes by choice who are content, they are most certainly the minority. Most Spaniard prostitutes are substance abusers, but most prostitutes aren’t even Spanish. Most of them are imported, from Latin America, Africa and Eastern Europe (these are the most expensive) and many are kept in slave like conditions. Prostitution is alegal in Spain, not legal, not regulated.
Whether prostitution should be legalized or not is irrelevant to these cases of hypocrisy among powerful politicians. If they are related, isn’t that making the case that, because some politicians take bribes, laws against bribery should be repealed? Or because a politician beats up on his or her spouse that assault laws are unnecessary and should be abandoned?
I have no opinion on this subject.
However, I would urge people to form their opinions based on solid data rather than a few anecdotes. Here’s one run-down of facts on the subject. They don’t seem to support your position, cosmoetica.
Dave Schuler:
You are correct that whether legalizing prostitution is irrelevant to politicians’ hypocrisy, but once again the issue is front and center (or should be) because of a hypocritical pol.
I wanted the comments thread to get rolling before I weighed in on my own views, but Lynx beat me to the punch with an argument that very closely mirrors mine.
All I would add is that American society is extraordinarily f*cked up when it comes to sex.
Solid Data? My god, Dave, you’ve got to be joking?
These stats are a bunch of eggheads running around to homeless shelters seeking out the very worst sorts of cases to back up oponions they’ve already formed. This is akin to:
http://stupidevilbastard.com/index/seb/comments/kirk_cameron_and_ray_comfort_to_scientifically_prove_gods_existence/
a washed up sitcom star trying to prove God exists with a banana as proof.
There’s nothing in that study from real people in the biz.
Do you believe Linda Lovelace’s wild claims about the porno biz? Or Jane Roe’s speaking out against abortion?
These sorts of claims are made by liars and people w axes to grind. A decade or go I went to a book reading on Defending Pornography by the ACLU head gal. There were the predictable stooges in the audience who heckled her.
One gal claimed to have been forced into the biz by her husband, yet I denuded her argument, and proved she was a shill and liar because she did not even know basic terms of the biz nor did she even know basic sexual terms for her own genitalia. She later admitted to lying because she thiought the ACLU was the Devil’s Work.
C’mon Dave, trusting garbage like you quote is like asking the guy who feeds lions at the zoo what a lion pride in Africa is like.
I grew up in that biz, and knew dozens of women (and men) in that bix, the strip club biz, and many were runaway kids, and many were used and abused- by pedophiles, not johns or the pimps.
In short, if you do not know what you speak of- re: prostitution or drugs, or abortion, or any subject, don’t embarrass yourself by quoting such garbge, or holding a banana.
Your data is not solid, but unsubstantiated goo gathered by people w an ax to grind. There’s not a dram that would hold up in court as ‘proof.’
And Lynx- the white slavery canard is just that. Yes, there are tales of women forced into sex, but again, I suspect that in Spain, as in Europe or America, the vast majority of prostitutes are smiling at yuo when they bag your groceries or hand you your library book.
I guess things like prostitution are the last bastions of safe stereotyping.
Shaun, yes. On this we are in agreement, and it’s the fucked up attitudes toward sex that lead to the lies and stereotypes, and plain old BS tghat Lynx and Dave quote and requote w/o a moment;s thought as to their relevance and/or verity.
No. Furthermore drug dealers should shot upon capture. Just call a judge and get an execution warrant first.
cosmoetica actually, I wasn’t quoting statistics at all, thank you very much. Oh I could easily do that, there are loads of statistics available (for Spain at least) that back me up. No, I wasn’t speaking out of statistics (though that would probably be more appropriate) but out of observation. Wherever you go, you can see them. Not just streetwalkers, who are virtually 100% immigrants, just outside the whorehouses (not very PC, but I hardly know what to call the places) you can see them, and they aren’t Spanish. Every time a prostitution ring gets broken in Spain (usually because of abusive treatment to the women) it’s immigrant women, usually illegally imported.
But actually, whether it’s voluntary or not is secondary to the argument of whether it should be legal or not. I think it should be legal for the reasons I stated above. If it’s as you say and women do it voluntarily, fine, let them do it also legally. If they are in fact often slaves, then OK, slavery is still illegal, you can liberate them with more ease if you first acknowledge they exist.
I agree with Mr. Schuler as to the relevancy. I’m just happy that we have a sex scandal, even though I would have preferred someone a little higher up. Nice to see that Republicans can hold their own.
Cosmoetica certainly has forceful views!!
I’m sure they have a lot of merit, but the merit would not have been reduced if expressed more tolerantly toward fellow commenters.
IMO, prostitution should have been legalized, but regulated, long ago. It hasn’t happened for the same reasons it won’t happen any time soon. In taday’s climate of fake morality, no congressman could vote for legalization without being pillaried.
While we wait for America’s society to change, though, the unhappy hookers on the street corner are a concern, no matter what percentage of the total they represent.
My question to Cosmo and other experts is: what do you think is the best way to introduce STD controlling programs to those ranks not privy to or uninterested in good health care? That’s something that should be tackled before the social climate changes enough to consider legalization.
Lynx makes some good points and cosmoetica, don’t be so quick to ‘denude’ people just becaise they are not ‘in the life.’ I see you point also but I hardly believe that the vast majority of prostitutes are blissfully content everyday women.
I believe prostitution should be legal only because no one, not politicians, not ministers, not even my parents have a right to decide how two grown adults choose to spend their time.
And contrary to Lynx and maybe because I’m a man, I don’t see it as either pathetic or sad.
I look at it simply as a service that someone is willing to provide.
You can hire someone to stand outside your gate in 20 degree weather to monitor activities. Nursing homes hire mostly immigrant workers to come in and wipe the old people’s behinds for $9 -$10 an hour.
What exactly is so immoral and so wrong for a woman to accept a man’s offer of a couple hundred dollars to have sex?
That decision does not put me, my family, my home or my livelihood in any danger whatsoever.
To me, it’s really the lesser of two evils. You can continue to punish the activity and imprison otherwise perfectly upstanding citizens for prostitution and thus continue to indirectly enable the pimps and human traffickers to flourish or you can legalize it in some fashion and have only the moral outrage of the prostitution opponents to deal with.
People often then ask me, so if a black man was willing to sell himself to a white man who wanted a slave and was willing to pay high end prostitution wages, should the government allow that?
To me, it’s not even an argument, yes!
If a grown balck man wants to accept $350 from a white man to put him in chains and make him grovel and say yessuh massa for an hour, who the heck am I to say you can’t do it??
People need to quit trying so hard to be society’s savior.
You might not like it and think it sad and pathetic andimmoral and demeaning, but if you are not the man offering the money for sex or the woman accepting the offer, you have zero right to intervene between what two grown adults in full mental capacity decide to do with their sexual lives.
“The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it.”
-H.L. Mencken
Lynx: ‘I wasn’t quoting statistics at all’
I did not say you were. Straw man.
Doma- show me the intolerance. Dave points to the same old tired sorts of stats that the Far Right use. Except, if it’s the Far Left it’s ok, or if its anyone else w a preconceived notion. This is again the sort of rationale those who use deluded folk like Lovelace and Roe against their former stances.
It’s akin to asking people to go on the record re: infidelity. My God, you mean it’s not a problem- only 1/3% of married folk admit to affairs. Well, on to the next vice.
Straw man.
And, you want to end streetwalking and pimpery- legalize it, regulate it. Have documented sex workers sevring clientele. Have a required weekly checkup, and tax them. 99.9% of johns wd sooner go to a USDA approved piece of ass than some VD hole, if only to avoid detection from their spouses. The solutions to most social problems are not as complex as the fucked up mores that prevent their implementation.
And, as with teen sex ed classes- free condoms and BC pills for all- free lubricants. Also open free methadone and other clinic that will keep drug users from spreading AIDS and other diseases. Pray all you want people will fuck and shoot up.
Then, when a Jimmy Swaggart type is screwing a hooker with a habit, he need not fear crabs, warts, or worse, and can still maintain his hypocrisy with a vengeance.
Larry: ‘I hardly believe that the vast majority of prostitutes are blissfully content everyday women’
How many have you known? Do you also believe that all women are haunted by abortions? These are similar canards that are tossed about w no basis in fact.
The patheticness of prostitution or drug use can be turned about and aimed at those who hide behind their mores- religious or not, and their inability to think in an objective and critical fashion.
Hippocrates- do no harm. This shd apply yo law. Abortions, prostitutions, drug use, do no harm, in and among their own. But illegalize and force them underground and you get health problems aplenty.
And it’s not the lesse rof two evils, for there is no evil involved, unless one counts ignorance.
Daniel: Spot on.
That was 1.3%
I don’t believe that all women are haunted by abortion. I do believe that one was. From personal experience.
cosmoetica, you’re points are excellent and your argument is articulate, but I wonder why this is even a topic for discussion. Surely any rational person would understand that whatever happens on private property, behind closed doors between consenting and responsible adults is not the concern of government and its institutions. Of course, if Suzy is promoting her product on a public street, she’s probably creating a public nuisance and should be dealt with accordingly, and those that victimize others with forced prostitution and/or sexual slavery are the lowest form of scoundrel and should be removed from society. Our current prostitution statutes only provide a layer of cover for those that exploit and teach the exploited to be afraid of legitimate authority.
[...] ask this question over at The Moderate Voice. Personally, I think it should. But I also find it interesting that this [...]
Yes.
Yes, prostitution should be decriminalized, regulated and taxed.
Cosmo
[to Dave:
"don’t embarrass yourself by quoting such garbge, or holding a banana."]
you could just say he’s wrong without going off on a tirade
Cosmo
[to me:"you want to end streetwalking ....."]
If you read my comment, I call for no such thing. I only make 2 points:
1) Even though I AGREE that prostitution should be legalized, I don’t think it’s likely to happen soon
2) In the meantime, the spread of STD is a serious problem. Since the word ‘condom’ is taboo at the government level in many areas, I thought it would be fruitful to concentrate advocacy on this area, while we wait for society to be enlightened.
I was asking a serious question.
I AGREE with you on the goals, but given today’s atmosphere, what is the best way to get to those goals?
In may area, the whole effort seems to be in the hands of very small groups and some dedicated individuals. It’s not enough.
Domajot, your concern is legitimate, but consider that according to the US Department of Health, only 3-5% of std transmissions are the results of prostitution activitiesâ€. Statistically, you are in much greater danger of catching an std through casual, unpaid for, sex with someone you met at a club, the office or church. In fact, most professional escorts and models are very knowledgeable and cautious about the use of condoms.
While I agree that there are several special interests that are vested in maintaining the status quo, I’ve come to realize that public opinion does not necessarily share those views. I think we need to continue using whatever resources with have to make and keep this a topic of discussion and debate.
I mean it IS the world’s oldest profession…so why not? *shrug*
I find it intriguing that no one in the comments thread said that it should remain illegal, and the commenters here are not particularly far out, be they left, right, or center. (OK, a couple of us are….) And yet, I have a feeling that 1) if you put it before Congress, you’d get maybe 5 legalization votes, and 2) if you put it before the people, maybe, maybe since they can vote anonymously, things would change, but I have a feeling, they’d vote to keep it illegal still.
One of the reasons to make prostitution legal that people mention is so that you can regulate it. However, it isn’t all that clear that you could regulate prostitution even with the legality change. Sex is something that can be traded in 5 minutes of the vendor’s time and usually is hidden away in hotel rooms and cars and people’s homes. Lawn care is legal and regulated, but the government has virtually no control over someone knocking on your door and asking to mow your lawn for $30. You can only “regulate” such transactions only if the customers or merchants want to participate in the regulations. I think the best government could really do is offer some sort of licenses or assurances which are so attractive that people seek them out and want them. Health and safety would probably be the two main things a government license could attempt to offer. But even here I wonder how many prostitutes and how many johns would want their name on paper anywhere. Surely some wouldn’t mind, but many would not. Perhaps such people want to continue to pay people on the side just to stay anonymous.
Of course, prostitution is legal in some countries, so anyone with knowledge of their regulations and successes, please join in.
One last thought on the original case I had was, “Hiring prostitutes has become something one abandons office for now, but for most of history, it was probably assumed that having the money and power to have access to prostitutes was one of the key reasons to go in office in the first place.” I’m thinking globally and over many historical periods when I say this.
By the way, has anyone mentioned to our resigned official that there are licensed people called massage therapists who might know a bit more about actual massages than an escort service — since that’s all you were getting, of course.
Russ: You make my point about the Lovelaces and Roes. This is a nut- abortion or no. I knew a woman who claimed to be molested by a dr. of hers. So?
Another Larry: Exactly. Most prost is invisible, and in the RARE cases of white slavery of foreign women, they shd be prosecuted. Kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment statutes apply, as well.
Doma: Dave’s whole argument- and his ‘facts’ are just gussied up tirades by a bunch of moral prudes. Saying it’s garbage is not a tirade. I asked rhetorically if you want to end streetwalking. It’s called reading nuances. Get a real progressive in the White House and kids will have condoms. Stop deminizing sex- casual or not. We all love it- save for a few asexuals amongst us.
Kaja- good point. As stated, most of the invisible prostitution exists because businessmen want ‘clean’ sex. You don’t find CEOs trawling red light districts for hos.
Pacatrue- of course not all prost can be regulated, but most johns- save those with death complexes, will go for regulated beaver than dirty corner fur. Is it not better to make it 98% safe than not?
I don’t believe what you’ve seen in these comments pacatrue is too unexpected; especially, because by definition most participants here are “moderatesâ€. I’m not aware of any scientific surveys in the last 10-12 years, but I think the overall population is about evenly divided for and against; however, those people with a real opinion, that is they are willing to state the reason why they are for or against something, will split almost 3 to 1 in favor of decriminalizing prostitution. Based on what I’ve seen there are three groups that have strong feeling about maintaining the status quo:
The first of these groups is law enforcement. Although there is a steadily growing movement called LEAP (law enforcement against prohibition), that recognizes the problems resulting from trying to use police resources to make a society conform to standards based on a moral code without sound “serve and protect†reasoning, there is still a culture in most of law enforcement to “protect its turf†and enforce anything they are empowered to enforce. They will oppose anything that restricts their power and authority.
Secondly, are the right-wing religious zealots and morality police. Many of them honestly believe that if the US becomes a heathen nation our fate will be the same as Sodom and Gomorrah.
Finally, on the left are the feminist action groups. These groups have been very successful in getting the attention of the United Nations, as well as the US State Department to make them aware of the issues of world-wide human trafficking, sex slavery, etc. I commend them for that work and their success. Unfortunately, many in these groups see everything through a lens of female victimization and objectification. Just like the religious zealot wants all mankind to conform to their moral standards, these feminists want all women to conform to their “non-victimization†standards and any woman who allows herself to become an object for any reason, including for pay, does not conform to their standards.
Wow, such speculation by people who know nothing about the escort business other than to assume everyone involved are drug addicated street lowlifes. Why not ask an escort or a Madam? Hey that’s me. I was arrested for the the same crime in 1996. Sad to see nothings changed since then. I had a very high-profile case in NY and NJ. Geraldo and Dateline called my lawyer. Penny Crone was at my house. I had coffee with one of Michael Moore’s producers. Also sad to see that Hillary said she doesn’t recommend this as a career choice during the debate. She literally took away our choice and made the choice for us. I didn’t think that was Hillary’s way.
Getting back to me being a Madam. I was nothing more than a go-between for two consenting adults and set up a meeting for them. The problem in America is that there is no distinction made between trafficking and people willing to do this kind of work. In countries where prostitution is legal, there are virtually no problems. There will always be the few “bad” people out there.
Since the advent of the internet, there are literally thousands of “dates” being set up all day long with no problems. Some people choose to work on their own, others work for agencies and make a little less money. They also don’t answer the phones, pay for advertising, etc. Madam’s earn their money.
I wish the ACLU would come out for us. I know they are on our side. The president of the ACLU, Nadine Strossen, said that the government has no right telling you what to do with your body, what to eat, touch, inhale, etc. This is our body and our choice.
We don’t want prostitution legalized, we want it decriminalized. Legalization has too many rules. We don’t want government pimp houses like they have in Nevada. While it might be the “safest” way, it would eliminate most people from running business, and only the most beautiful will work. That is not empowering women. We should be able to run our own businesses, just like an accountant does. There are incall and outcall services, and brothels don’t allow for that.
I hope she gets off just based on the fact that it is a privacy issue. I can’t believe a man like Guiliani is running for president. His wife didn’t find out about his affair until she, and all of us, saw it on television. In my book, that makes him a rat. I don’t care that he’s on his third wife. I care that he destroyed his family. When all these politicians have something exposed, they cry, “please give us our privacy”. Well, that’s all we want. If there’s not complaint, don’t come knocking on our bedroon door.
Also, to the postings that say we are spreading diseases. If that were true, based on how many prostitutes there are in the USA, there’d be a whole lot more people sick. Prostitutes are probably more careful with their bodies than two drunk people in a bar jumping into bed at the end of the night.
Give us a break, mind your business. This is a necessary business. There are many single men out there without a significant other. As for the married men using the services, again that’s none of your business. It’s not going to go away any time soon. It’s a moral issue, not a legal one. Should we really be facing jailtime for sleeping with someone? This land is my land, this land is your land from the Redwood Forest to the NY Island, this land was made for you and me. Let’s keep religion and politics out of our lives. Remember the old saying from the Vietnam War, “make love, not war”. Honestly, the business is not a big deal, it’s just a service, lighten up.
[...] 8th, 2007 · No Comments By Shaun Mullen So Deputy Secretary of State Randall L. Tobias has resigned after confirming that he was a customer [...]