Department of “Oh Yeah?”

Posted by JOE GANDELMAN, Editor-In-Chief in Economy, Politics.
Jul 25th, 2011 | 13 responses

13 Responses to “Department of “Oh Yeah?””

1. ProfElwood says:

   July 25, 2011 at 11:36 am

   Are you talking the debt ceiling default, or the debt limit default?
2. Allen says:

   July 25, 2011 at 12:20 pm

   Default means they’ll be jumping out of windows on Wall Street. If we even get close to default I’m taking my lawn chairs to Manhattan because I gotta see this!

   I’ll have to make up those point signs to hold up over my head.
3. Anna says:

   July 25, 2011 at 12:33 pm

   Allen,

   Whilst I have no love for the Wall Street jackals that are primarily responsible for imploding the US economy, any (sick) satisfaction gained by even 1 of them jumping out of a window is gained by far too high a price for the nation. I still wonder whatever happened to all of us “being in this together”?
4. JSpencer says:

   July 25, 2011 at 1:29 pm

   “I still wonder whatever happened to all of us “being in this together”?”

   Now there’s a scary concept… one that probably keeps the Rush Limbaughs awake at night.
5. DLS says:

   July 25, 2011 at 1:34 pm

   I have that confidence that the parties won’t be that stupid. However, they could make a mistake, go too long to reach an agreement and then not quickly pass a law to raise the limit in one day, which Obama would promptly sign.

   (I really don’t want to credit any Republicans who believe that any brief default period, which they may believe would force the Dems to be more “cooperative,” would not be especially traumatic; they don’t deserve such credit.)
6. casualobserver says:

   July 25, 2011 at 1:36 pm

   Ok, I’ll bite, Prof….aren’t these synonyms?

   But, I’ll take the opposite stand of Gandelman…there won’t be a default. I don’t say that because I am 100% convinced the legislation will be signed by Aug 2, but rather because Aug 2 is actually a pretty old “rough estimate” vocalized by Geithner. If memory serves, this date is actually his third such rough estimate.

   Tax receipts are actually running higher than projected, not to mention a whole host of accounting plays that could be used to buy weeks to months if need be.

   Allen predicted a stock market crash last week here and fortunately, i needed to hear that in order to confirm in my mind that staying invested in equities was the right course.

   Remind me to post the DJIA here on Aug 3.
7. SteveK says:

   July 25, 2011 at 2:28 pm

   Anna says: I still wonder whatever happened to all of us “being in this together”?

   Hi Anna,
   There was a good article about just that in, of all places, today’s Yuma Sun.

   Here’s a few paragraphs and a link to the article.

   Insular Internet endangers nation

   [...]

   But I’m concerned about the Internets impact on us. I’m concerned about America. The Internet finds us ripping at, in unprecedented ways, the very fabric of our nation. While not a sinister design flaw of the cyber tool, the crumbing situation results from conscious acts springing from fantasy illusions.

   A century ago our forbears mostly lived in isolated communities and gossipy neighborhoods. Their days surely required our predecessors to accommodate to the whims, proclamations and ideas of those with whom they spoke daily. They learned to get along with all sorts of folks, even as these others didn’t see the world exactly as they viewed it. Notably they heard, and endured, the musings and pontifications of others, even as they disagreed.

   Cometh the Internet. Its capabilities allow us to fully dismiss those with whom we disagree. Indeed, we can organize virtual communities that include only folks who believe exactly as we do; all others are easily excluded. Though we may still physically live next to persons of varying persuasions, we can create made-up communities espousing the alternative fantasies we dearly accept. We can reside in substitute universes, ignoring, indeed dismissing, proven facts.

   [...]

   Having separated ourselves from differing thoughts, we become ever more certain that the world is (or certainly should be) as we say it is. Proof requires no more than asking others in our Internet communities. We collectively dismiss facts that might otherwise upset our beliefs.

   On a massive scale, for example, President Obama’s birthplace serves as an instance of such insular ignorance. Once he started his presidential run, investigators of various stripes checked it out. In every case — yes, every case — the investigators confirmed his Hawaiian birth. But a hard core group of detractors would not accept the undeniable evidence of a Honolulu beginning. It’s incredible to me that any reasonable person can deny the evidence, but the lie lived on — and surely still does.

   Here’s a case where conspiracy-minded friends from Internet communities have persuaded others of the falsehoods they concocted. Such ignorance endangers our democracy.

   Gary Knox is a retired Yuma-area school superintendent and guest columnist for the Yuma Sun.
8. Allen says:

   July 25, 2011 at 6:08 pm

   Anna…what do you laugh at? Forgetting to change the battery in your car keys? A missed knitting stitch? Anyway the pressure is off Wall Street, the President is caving in to Republican intransigence.
9. DLS says:

   July 25, 2011 at 6:56 pm

   Steve K. (if you can cast aside your usual types of reactions and of behavior): Among the criticisms I’ve made of “purist” (or in practice, zealously ideological) libertarianism is that it not only flirts with anarchism, but also with “atomism” (or “atomization”) and discounts any groups or group relations at all, in the most extreme cases.

   But that’s now what is happening in this country and now, as before, it’s a false charge from the Left, which remains subject to neurotic collectivism.

   It’s better just to observe and see if things are fractured too much. (Though if one is wiser, the concern is if things are too “clumped.”)
10. DLS says:

    July 25, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    Anna wrote:

    I still wonder whatever happened to all of us “being in this together”?

    Nobody sensible presumes this to be so. Rather, when it is it or when ought it to be so?
11. SteveK says:

    July 25, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    DLS says:

    Steve K. (if you can cast aside your usual types of reactions and of behavior): Among the criticisms I’ve made of “purist” (or in practice, zealously ideological) libertarianism is that it not only flirts with anarchism, but also with “atomism” (or “atomization”) and discounts any groups or group relations at all, in the most extreme cases.

    But that’s now what is happening in this country and now, as before, it’s a false charge from the Left, which remains subject to neurotic collectivism.

    It’s better just to observe and see if things are fractured too much. (Though if one is wiser, the concern is if things are too “clumped.”)

    @DLS

    What, if anything, did your comment to me have to do with the Yuma Sun Opinion Piece that I posted?

    It had nothing to do with “libertarianism” and I added no opinion or further claim to its value. I simply posted another persons (a very conservative retired school superintendent) comment because I thought it well written and it seemed to me to have relevance to the question Anna asked.
12. JSpencer says:

    July 25, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    SteveK, Excellent article. Thanks for posting! I think it’s no surprise that the growing popularity of the internet coincided with growing polarization. Sure, divisions already existed, but when every yahoo who could figure out how to operate a keyboard realized they could say anything they wanted without ever having to face the person they were talking to, then a lot changed. And of course the preponderance and availability of junk information increased exponentially. It seems to be here to stay though, so I guess all we can do is try to deal with the challenges.
13. ProfElwood says:

    July 25, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    CO:
    The debt ceiling is the limit congress imposes internally on itself.

    The debt limit is the (unknown) point where investors lose confidence in US debt.