National ID
States challenge nat’l driver’s license
Wiki has a summary of the issues.
I am in favor of a universal ID system to help separate predators from the general population. I would like for my society to know who is entering the country, who is buying explosives, who is moving around large amounts of money, to keep tract of chronic predators who physically, emotionally or financially prey on others. In fact I support going further by gathering multiple forms of biometric data so that we do not have to rely on easily forged physical documents.
I would like for any information gathered to be available for review just as we now have a right to see our credit histories so we can challenge and correct information. I would like for there to be special Identity Courts that can expedite issues related to identity.
This seems to be a simple necessity in the context of the inevitably increasing globalization of the world. I just do not grasp how we can improve security without tracking suspicious behavior as determined by our elected representatives and the courts.
13 Responses to “National ID”
A digital ID is one big can of worms. It can be forged or stolen just like a credit card. The invasion of privacy by the government and private groups is the big problem. Biometrics that store personal info will be comprimed. The magnetic stripe on CC and passports is fine, RFID’s are Big Brother.
What I don’t grasp is how terrified so many Americans are of the idea. Talk about national ID and people start screaming about right to privacy and a police state and whatnot. For one thing, if the Federal Government wants to know what you’re up to, having or not having a national ID will make ZERO difference. If you think having your drivers license be your regular ID is keeping your privacy then I have some terrific KoolAid you can try. We already have Social Security numbers dammit, we’re already numbered, there are a million ways we’re tracked, through our bills, our homes, our children’s schools, our doctors, even our libraries. National ID would just make it less of a nightmare for law enforcement to sort out criminals from regular citizens, and citizens from non-citizens.
Another thing is this hysteria that only a police state does such a thing. Well, pretty much all of hippy dippy Europe has national ID. My ID shows a picture of me, my full name, birthdate, birthplace, the first names of my mother and father (which personally I find utterly useless) and my national ID number. I can use it for anything and everything, I can even fly with it within much of Europe, without needing a passport. I don’t know how to drive but I still have ID, and I don’t feel particularly persecuted. My ID wont be stolen because if anyone tries to pretend to be me upon being arrested say they have to present their ID (not a simple thing to fake, by the way) and in the government files they have my one and only fingerprints to make sure they’re dealing with me.
Here’s one problem with a national ID – some Christian fundamentalists see such as a sign of the Antichrist.
I tend to agree with Lynx. Although the original bill creating social security specifically did not want the social security number to not become a national I.D. look what’s happened to it. And it is completely lacking in the security that Lynx notes can be applied to a real I.D.
Rudi, how can biometrics be compromised?
States challenge nat’l driver’s license…
I completely agree, particularly about the inclusion of multiple forms of biometric data to reduce, if not prohibit, forged documents….
Paul–
I’m kind of with you on this.
I guess I could be pursuaded otherwise, since I’ve never been clear on how this is a threat to our civil liberties. I do understand that, like any card or piece of paper, it would be subject to theft, forgery or counterfitting. Still, I carry a driver’s licence issued by my state government and a credit card issued by a private multinational corporation. I am also currently–probably not for very long!–carrying a $20 bill, a document issued by the leviathan central government. I imagine all these innovations of modernity were controversial when first introduced. I don’t feel my civil liberties are threatened by any of them.
I’d love to hear a good case made against a national ID. But until then, I think you’re right about the benefits.
We need to move away from using your SSN for everything. It’s not supposed to be a form of ID, but tell that to businesses.
How can the Internet be hacked? I have no problem with magnetic stripe ID’s, but RFID can be read remotely, by anyone. It’s the difference between barcodes and R/W RFID. RFID readers are suppose to have 4 W power ratings, Google CB linear amps for an answer.
Several years ago I got ripped off by someone who stile and used my SSN. Since then I’ve been quite reluctant to give it out. Businesses look at me me funny than!
It’s been shown that a high rez photograph can fool a finger print scanner, and even some retinal scanners. Take that for what its worth.
I think a national ID system in general is a good thing, but agree with Rudi on RFID. With an RFID, someone could be checking my ID without me knowing it. That seems to me to be a bit too far. If they want to see my ID, all they should have to do is ask and I can decide for myself if it is a valid request and act appropriately. Also, since all encryption is broken eventually, having an RFID system would end up pretty much broadcasting all your personal information to anyone who cared to look, and would probably lead to more ID theft rather than less.
Biometrics can be compromised by recording the datastream from the scanner. When you want to pretend to be someone else, send the recorded datastream in place of that generated by the scanner. Once your retina pattern is scanned and recorded somewhere, anyone who can access that recording can “smudge” it a little bit and pretend to be your left eye on line. They can’t actually look in the camera, but they probably won’t need to.
The SSN was intentionally designed to be insecure. It did not need to be; its only use was in distinguishing between the different full-name collisions (such as John Thomas Jones) that had FICA accounts. Full name + SSN –> probable uniqueness. Probable, not certain. Of course, then there was that billfold company that printed the mock SSN card that thousands used. 074-05-1120 has been “killed”.
If you are interested in the problems and consequences of universal numeric identifiers, I strongly recommend an old science fiction novel, John Brunner’s The Shockwave Rider, wherein the protagonist has to deal with a number of the possible problems. Most of the politicians “designing” their new proposals seem not to have read it, and it shows.
I don’t know that it is not possible to design a good system, but it’s much harder than it looks.
Right. I think we should all have a bar code implanted on our forhead with 666 your ssn and 666 after it.
Everytime we purchased something we would have our fore head scanned.
Gee could it be…….could it be that a book written 2000 years ago could actually be predicting the end times……The mark of the beast….666….National ID…..brought about because of a worldwide RELIGIOUS WAR? Could Hackaloogiejohn or whatever his name is be the Devil. Or or could it be GWB or Hillary or Obama?
Oh no wonder the Aethiest are trying so hard to get God banned from the World and America. If you ban GOD then you cant have 666, the end of the world and the mark of the beast and a rfid on your forhead.
Whats a libertarian to do????
Upinsmoke LOL