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Posted by on Jun 20, 2006 in At TMV | 20 comments

UPDATED & MOVED UP: Our Missing Soldiers Have Been Found (In Pieces)

Washington Post: Two Missing U.S. Soldiers Found Dead

BAGHDAD, July 20–Two U.S. soldiers missing since an attack on a checkpoint last week have been found dead near a power plant in Yusifiyah, south of Baghdad, according to an Iraqi defense official.

Maj. Gen. Abdul Aziz Muhammed-Jassim, head of operations at the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, said the soldiers had been “barbarically” killed and that there were traces of torture on their bodies…


UPDATE: New Leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq Practices Human Sacrifice

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — The new leader of al-Qaida in Iraq killed two U.S. soldiers whom the group abducted last week, an insurgent umbrella group said in a Web statement posted Tuesday. The statement, which could not be authenticated, said the two soldiers were ”slaughtered,” suggesting they had been beheaded by Abu Hamza al-Muhajer.

The Arabic word used in the statement, ”nahr,” is used for the slaughtering of sheep by cutting the throat and has been used in past statements to refer to beheadings…

AND

The statement in the name of the Mujahedeen Shura Council, said: ”We give the good news … to the Islamic nation that we have carried God’s verdict by slaughtering the two captured crusaders.”

”With God Almighty’s blessing, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer carried out the verdict of the Islamic court” for the soldier’s slaying, the statement said….

AND (by Michael van der Galien)

An AQ leader killed (?), see also the BBC

Gen Caldwell said on Tuesday US forces had killed Zarqawi’s “right-hand man” in a raid in Yusifiya on Friday, near where the US troops were abducted.

The general said Iraqi Mansur Suleiman al-Mashhadani was “a key leader in al-Qaeda” and could have succeeded Zarqawi.

and Centcom reports:

Coalition forces detained a senior al-Qaida in Iraq network member and three suspected terrorists during coordinated raids southwest of Baqouba June 19.

The terrorist is reportedly a senior al-Qaida cell leader throughout central Iraq , north of Baghdad . He’s known to be involved in facilitating foreign terrorists throughout central Iraq , and is suspected of having ties to previous attacks on Coalition and Iraqi forces.

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  • Chippedchips

    Since I have 22 years of military experience under my belt, part of it, eight years, in the Pentagon, I can state with some authority, that unconventional war cannot be won by a conventional army using conventional army war tactics no matter how many military personnel are thrown in the fight.

    Even if we had a soldier standing in every square yard of Iraq, the highly mobile guerilla soldiers, popularly but wrongly called insurgent terrorists, go to plan “B” and start up their Holy Jihad war in another country and the chase goes on.

    There have been at least a dozen generals both in the field in Iraq and at the Pentagon that have tried to get that through bush, cheney, rove, and rumsfeld’s thick skulls…all to no avail!

    Incidently there is another old saying that applies here:

    “The more you stir shit the worse it stinks”

    Might it be time for our nation to stop stirring up the shit in the Middle East?

    Has not the U S’s position and point been made clear to every nation that harbors the Jihadist’s?

    Is it not time for the Iraqi’s to clean up their own nation with their own army?

    Several divisions of Iraqi’s army has been getting trained and armed for nearly two and one half years according to U S government and Military trainers in the fields reports. How long does it take for the Iraqi’s to take over?

    Our own army troops get a few weeks, usually no more than 16 weeks, of basic training, with a few more additional weeks of AIT, or Advanced Infantry Training to familiarize them with weapons and practice tactics, and/or sent off for a few weeks of other more specialized tank/artillary training, then trotted off into the battle field as cannon fodder.

    But if I was an Iraqi general or just a plain soldier I would figure, “why should us Iraqi’s hit the shit while there are plenty of U S soldier’s around to do the fighting and dying for us?”

    That’s one reason that can be fathomed out as to why Iraqi’s have not taken up the battle for their own country.

    The other reason I can conjure is as reprehensible an outrage as I can think of, “bush and his bunnies “don’t want our troops out of Iraq PERIOD!”

    The actual war in Iraq, what little of it there was, has been won…el presidente said so himself, “Mission Accomplished” some two years ago.

    So all that’s left to do is “MOP UP” a few small pockets of the enemy and the Iraqi’s army, now well manned, trained, and equipped by guess who, “us” should be quite capable of doing the mopping up on their own!

    So tell me…what’s wrong with this picture? Who’s kidding whom?

  • Holly in Cincinnati

    You’re kidding, right?

  • Chippedchips

    Nope…not kidding one damned bit princess.

  • SnarkyShark

    You’re kidding, right?

    NO…he’s absolutly correct. You did notice that he had 22 years of milatary experience. I have 4 myself a in combat arms, and I agree completely.

    Thats why it does matter that our decisionj makers have a little more experience than watching John Wayne movies.

    Your the one who is living in unreality Holly. Im sorry this messy little charnel house doesn’t fit into your tidy little preconcieved notion, but it’s all coming to a head.

    There is history for anyone who cares to read it. The British already tried this in the early 1900s. The had this marvelous new thing called the airplane that was going to make them invicible.

    Didn’t work out. Its not going to this time either.

    His facts are all correct, why is it so hard to believe? Are you really so divorced from reality? Can you not feel the winds of change starting to blow? Did we not learn a damn thing from Vietnam?

    When we leave, the Iraqies will deal with Al Quaida, so all that we can’t leave cut and run crap coming from the war mongers is at about the same level of “all of southeast asia will fall to the commies” [email protected]

    Didn’t happen. It was a bright shining lie. Mess-o-potamia is brought to you from the same crowd of chickenhawks who loved that distant war so much. Of course not so much as to ever actually, you know, go fight in it.

  • Rudi

    Chips,
    Holly is in the chickenhawk-neocon camp. Theirs is a “Crusade” against another people and religion, they are willing to spill others blood and resourses to defeat them “Ayrab”. This group has the moral superiority, from the safety of their keyboards, to fight this Crusade. We won the Cold war by containment, against that “godless Red hoard”.

  • DanWinters

    When you get a moment, check out this web site: http://www.saneworks.us. They have some really good articles regarding our National Existence.

  • Dennis Raines

    I don’t most agree with Chippedchips past comments on national issues, but he is dead on with Iraq. The administration has a total lack of understanding of history (hell Veitnam wsn’t THAT long ago), and well, no understanding of current events in the world. I’d rather be dealing with North Korea than with Iraq right now, but we broke Iraq and have to fix it the best we can in order for them to run it themselves.

  • I just watched an interesting discusson on the Newshour. One of the analysts (I wish I caught his name) asserted that this alQaeda operation shows a new focus away from Zarqawi’s attempt to spark a Shia/Sunni civil war and onto al Qaeda’s goal of setting up a caliphate elsewhere in the middle East (he mentioned Egypt). He cited alQaeda documents chastising Zarqawi for wasting time trying to eliminate Shia in such a Shia dominated country. Instead he believes that alQaeda will focus more on the US troops directly in order to claim credit for driving us out, basically as a recruiting tool for their plans elsewhere. The analyst took the killing of these two soldiers as a clear and loud signal by the new leader of a re-shift in alQaeda priorities. He also claimed that this might be an opportunity for the Iraqi government to peel off the Sunnis from alQaeda, saying they may be more willing to concede that the insurgency has not provided them with any real gains. Anyone want to flesh out or refute that argument for my edification?

  • Holly in Cincinnati

    Guys, you really need to go educate yourselves.

  • I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education.
    Wilson Mizner (1876-1933) American dramatist.

  • grognard

    For me there are too many variables left, the association of a key religious or political leader could bring things to a boil. Barring that I think the Sunni insurgency will continue on, possibly at a reduced rate . The army and police might be able to take over some of our operations but the question as what to do about the militias has not been answered, and they might be more of a long term threat to stability than the insurgents.
    My gut feel in all this is that the final out come will be a dictatorship, probably Shiite, with backing from the Kurds. The Iraqi people will trade freedom for peace and we will be long gone..

  • Pyst

    I got a big major problem with the abduction of these 2 soldier, and death of the 3rd one. I’m no military strategist, but why in hell were 3 men guarding a pontoon bridge in a known hostile area by themselves, out of visual contact with any other support? This smells badly, and to borrow a military phrase is totally FUBAR. Someone left these guys hanging in the wind out there, and they got killed because of some guy with bars on his shoulders, but nothing between his ears.

    Holly, when you get educated with a combined 26 years of military experience (Chip,Snarky)you might have an argument, untill then the standard line of “go educate yourself” doesn’t carry any weight at all.

  • Captain Carnage

    The old Chickenhawk argument….

    Unless you’ve served, your opinion doesn’t count huh? So most of you guys agreeing with Chip also have worthless opinions?

    What about the fact that there are many other vets/Milbloggers that disagree with ChippedChips? Your own disagreement with them is of course worthless, if you have not served.

    Hasn’t Al Gore’s internet taught you anything? People can have informed opinions about things without being directly involved in them. Ever built a nuclear weapon? But have an opinion of them?

    Think that the CinC of the US military, who is usually a civilian, might be entitled to an opinion on military matters?

    Pyst – “Holly, when you get educated with a combined 26 years of military experience (Chip,Snarky)you might have an argument, untill then the standard line of “go educate yourself” doesn’t carry any weight at all.”

    Got your 26 years experience under the belt have you?

  • badfinch

    It’s nice of Holly to rebut in buzz clips. They would be more effective as a t-shirt, button, or bumper sticker at best (to quote a buzz clip). So Holly just why do you think we are justified in running up the national debt, putting our troops on the line, and effectively creating a fomenting ground for terrorists to sabotage or provide other entities the opportunity to profit from oil supply threat and manipulation?

    I feel we have spent enough years, money and blood on this project and its time to come home.

  • SnarkyShark

    The old Chickenhawk argument….

    Which is quite valid, but seems to bother the hell out of, yiou know, actual chickenhawks.

    What about the fact that there are many other vets/Milbloggers that disagree with ChippedChips?

    Granted, and I actually value their opinion. Chickenhawks…not so much.

    People can have informed opinions about things without being directly involved in them. Ever built a nuclear weapon? But have an opinion of them?

    Pretty stupid argument as there is a really short list of nuclear bomb makers, but here goes..

    If an actual nuclear bomb maker exprssed an opinion to me on the use of nuclear weapons, i would give his opinion serious consideration. I believe Teller was quite oppossed to their use and so am I. That get it for you?

    As for informed opinions…compare and contrast..

    There is history for anyone who cares to read it. The British already tried this in the early 1900s. The had this marvelous new thing called the airplane that was going to make them invicible.

    vs

    Guys, you really need to go educate yourselves

    Short translation=I know nothing, nor will I be bothered to learn anything about a recent historical event with earily simaler parrallells to current events.

    Think that the CinC of the US military, who is usually a civilian, might be entitled to an opinion on military matters?

    He had his opinion, he acted on his opinion, his opinion sucked, and here we are. The War College gamed this beforehand and arrived at this very result. But what do those proffesional military people know?

    Got your 26 years experience under the belt have you?

    Apparently so…watch a lot of ‘Red Dawn’ do you.

    Hard to take anybody serious who’s moniker probably reflects his heroic satatus as a PS2 warrior god.

  • Chippedchips

    I’ll just make a single reply to one nitwit know it all’s bean brained comment.

    No I have never personally built a nuclear bomb and all they have on the web is no later than second generation bombs…I leave building the newer stuff up to other experts.

    However after spending the last 18 of my 22 years in military special operations, on six different types of 4th and 5th generation thermonuclear weapons and devices with varying yields up to 5 megatons, I was taught myself by experts, then taught others, field operations for thermonuclear bomb mechanics, how to assemble and arm the damned RC and digital timers, and four types of barometric proximity fusing devices to detonate them.

    I just love it when people that don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground pop off.

  • Jim S

    As soon as Captain Carnage said “Al Gore’s internet” I knew how ignorant he was and didn’t bother reading the rest of the post. I probably won’t pay much attention to anything else he posts either.

  • Chippedchips

    Dennis,

    Whether or not I’m agreed with is of no consequece, and my ways whether right or wrong are never the only ways..they are just simply my ways and in main I respect others opinions until they get personally nasty or state something so outrageous or stupid.

    I have a policy. Show me a convincing, logical, better direction and way and I’ll adopt the program, and then keep on seeking even more convincing, even more logical programs. Some call that growing.

    I’m glad people voice disagreement and dissent, it keeps me thinking and looking for those better ways to do something. I always figured that if there was a dirty difficult job to do, I’d find the laziest SOB around and hire him, and through simple logic, be sure he would find the easiest most expediently efficient way to do it.

    I’ll tell you one thing friend…I’m not looking for perfection in politics or anything else…not in this imperfect society and world I’m not.

    Because just as harmful as being too hastey, is studying a thing too long and being too cautious.

    What I do seek is the most available, least harmful, most expediently utile solutions.

    Military training teaches that success comes with sacrefices…some small some large, like thinking beyond the obvious and giving up a hill temporarily in order to win an entire battle.

    I’ll cite one example. I see it repeated all over the web by both the left and right…”We need to find a way to become less dependent on foreign oil.”

    One side, the right, seems to be willing to sacrefice anything and everything unless it touches them or that they personally have to sacrifice something.

    The left, don’t seem to want to sacrefice anything at all, to develop oil field anywhere on or just off our national soil. “Don’t drill in the ANWR.”

    I’ve got news. If by getting a bit less dependent on these OPEC mongerels oil…they can drill through my living room floor!

    Like I’ve repeatedly written over and over again, “as long as the socalled energy producing corporations keep buying the politicians off and dictate energy policy to our government, THERE WILL BE NO SERIOUS DEVELOPMENT OF ALTERNATE ENERGY/FUEL/POWER SOURCES….

    There is simply no one(s) out there with the bucks first A. invent, and develop, and B. have enough bucks after development to mass produce” any alternatives and reiterated the big boys that do have the bucks aren’t going to until oil dries up.

    One again bush lied when he said “American’s are ADDICTED TO OIL.

    What we are in fact is being held captive to oil by the greed driven energy corporations AND THEIR STOCKHOLDERS repeat AND THEIR STOCKHOLDERS.

    Is that too difficult to understand…too deep?

    Count on it, if there was a practical, relatively inexpensive alternative fuel/energy/power source available I would jump off the oil band wagon as so fast heads would spin for a year.

    I would also like everyone to consider this fact as well.

    No nation on Earth will ever become totally independent of oil…that is unless someone can invent perpetual motion machines with no moving parts or find a practical way of making synthetic lubricating oils, and all the heavy greases, now derived from petroleum that are necessary and lubricate every machine on Earth that have gears, bearings, cams, drive shafts, etc. etc. etc.!

    One of the things that is baffling space scientists with interplanatary travel in mind, is how to carry along enough lubricants for the trip, some trips lasting for decades, not just OUT, but BACK to Earth for airconditioners, air circulating fans, and all other moving parts that require lubrication.

    Frankly I don’t think many have done much more than scratch surfaces and really studied in any degree of depth just how deep in the crap humanity is on any of a thousand or more different issues.

    And everything else, other than that which has been touched or scratched..is either ignored or denied.

    Unlike the majority of people in mainstream America, luckly I don’t have to work for a living. I have the time to keep myself informed in depth, and am able research, study, and dig things out..then come up with my solutions right or wrong agreed with or not.

  • Chippedchips

    Holly in Cincinnati said:

    Guys, you really need to go educate yourselves.
    ***************************************************

    Holly..prinnnn cessss, just what should we be educating ourselves in…your particular brand of uninformed naivete, or should we study with you in your military/political ignorance class where you’re obviously maklng straight C-?

    Thanks, don’t know about the other “guys” you were referring to…but I’ll pass.

  • Pyst

    Captian Caveman, I do not have 26 years of military service that’s why I tend to defer to those WHO HAVE 26 YEARS COMBINED SERVICE AND A FREAKIN CLUE, NOT AN IDEOLOGICAL BLOODLUST.

    Oops, caps key stuck. 😉

Posted by on Jun 20, 2006 in At TMV |

UPDATED & MOVED UP: Our Missing Soldiers Have Been Found (In Pieces)

Washington Post: Two Missing U.S. Soldiers Found Dead

BAGHDAD, July 20–Two U.S. soldiers missing since an attack on a checkpoint last week have been found dead near a power plant in Yusifiyah, south of Baghdad, according to an Iraqi defense official.

Maj. Gen. Abdul Aziz Muhammed-Jassim, head of operations at the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, said the soldiers had been “barbarically” killed and that there were traces of torture on their bodies…


UPDATE: New Leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq Practices Human Sacrifice

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — The new leader of al-Qaida in Iraq killed two U.S. soldiers whom the group abducted last week, an insurgent umbrella group said in a Web statement posted Tuesday. The statement, which could not be authenticated, said the two soldiers were ”slaughtered,” suggesting they had been beheaded by Abu Hamza al-Muhajer.

The Arabic word used in the statement, ”nahr,” is used for the slaughtering of sheep by cutting the throat and has been used in past statements to refer to beheadings…

AND

The statement in the name of the Mujahedeen Shura Council, said: ”We give the good news … to the Islamic nation that we have carried God’s verdict by slaughtering the two captured crusaders.”

”With God Almighty’s blessing, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer carried out the verdict of the Islamic court” for the soldier’s slaying, the statement said….

AND (by Michael van der Galien)

An AQ leader killed (?), see also the BBC

Gen Caldwell said on Tuesday US forces had killed Zarqawi’s “right-hand man” in a raid in Yusifiya on Friday, near where the US troops were abducted.

The general said Iraqi Mansur Suleiman al-Mashhadani was “a key leader in al-Qaeda” and could have succeeded Zarqawi.

and Centcom reports:

Coalition forces detained a senior al-Qaida in Iraq network member and three suspected terrorists during coordinated raids southwest of Baqouba June 19.

The terrorist is reportedly a senior al-Qaida cell leader throughout central Iraq , north of Baghdad . He’s known to be involved in facilitating foreign terrorists throughout central Iraq , and is suspected of having ties to previous attacks on Coalition and Iraqi forces.

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