My closing thoughts…
I think actually you could argue any of three points on this debate
On pure debate points I’d say it was a draw. So you certainly could stop there
But the issue is how does this impact campaign. Some would suggest that Obama won because he is leading and thus all he needed to do was keep even. On the other hand you could also argue that Romney won because he held his own with Obama and the President did not get his knock out blow.
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Time for closing statements
Obama first (by Romney’s choice)
Obama gives a good summary of how he started this journey four years ago and wants to keep going for another four years. Discusses the people and places he’s been over the last four years (Obama is quite good at citing personal encounters, must have taken lessons from Bill Clinton, who is the king of such citations).
He goes on to push his themes of fairness, fair share, etc. Talks about how he never promised to be a perfect President but that he will always fight for the people. Asks for their vote
Romney talks about his concerns over where the country is today, where it has gone in the last four years, where it will go. Tries I think to pick up something of the Reagan mantle of needing to change directions and give a new birth to America in the future, etc
Both closing statements good, neither spectacular.
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Lehrer chides both men for taking up too much time and asking them to discuss how they would deal with partisan politics.
Romney gets out a pretty good monologue on why he is in the race and how we need to come together, cites the fact that he worked with a heavily Democratic legislature in Massachusetts. He is more impassioned here than he has been in most of the debate
Obama a bit weaker here I think, perhaps because his background in Chicago politics isn’t built on bipartisanship but it doesn’t seem as strong as he has been elsewhere in the debate.
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Romney cites the 10th amendment and how powers should belong to states which is a good transition to the next question: What is the role of the federal government and how do you differ ?
Obama starts out with the obvious idea of national security and protecting the people then goes into the broad general idea of the governments role in providing opportunity to the little guy, education and infrastructure and such.
He then talks about how Romney doesn’t support all of these things and “doesn’t want to hire new teachers like I do”
Romney comes back by citing Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and the need to balance between helping the needy and making government too overreaching.
Again it’s pretty much what you’d expect, Obama is not a socialist but he certainly feels that the federal government should have a significant role in day to day life. Romney is no libertarian but he certainly prefers the federal government to do only what it has to do and the rest belongs to the states and local communities.
Not sure how this one is going to change minds, if you believe in bigger government then you are going to like Obama and if not you are going to support Romney. The really big government people are going to see Obama as too soft just as the really small government people are going to see Romney as too big government.
Obama goes back to Romney/Ryan not being specific enough. Not sure if it will sell with the swing voters but it certainly has been his theme through the debate.
Both Romney and Obama sticking with the “my opponent is a good guy but just doesn’t get it”. Obama painting Romney as being too rich to understand the average guy needing money for school
Good line from Romney saying Obama is entitled to his own plane but not his own facts. He then points out that Obama has put money into programs like green jobs that could have been put into education, continuing on his theme of we need to prioritize things.
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It looks like both men have taken the Al Gore/George Bush lesson of not forgetting the camera is always on you. Both have had some mildly irritated looks but nothing that the media will be able to go back to
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Romney gets first strike and pretty much says what I expected, but also makes the interesting choice to cite what he did in Massachusetts, which could be a mistake if Obama chooses to hit him with “well ACA is your program”. Though Romney cited it as an example of individual states crafting programs that work best for that state.
Obama pretty much says what you would expect, says you get to keep your own insurance, etc. I wonder if Romney will cite increasing premiums ?
Obama does however hit Romney on the “what you did in Massachusetts is ACA” and Romney responds by saying that they crafted a program that worked for them but it might not work for other states. He also goes on to discuss how in Massachusetts he worked with the other side to craft the program while Obama did not do so.
Obama hits back with the idea that ACA is a Republican plan.
Romney responds by discussing his plan, which he says would offer many of the benefits of ACA without being as much of a government program or bureaucracy.
Obama comes back with the idea that Romney is not being specific enough on what his plans would be, which to me is a bit weak since Romney just discussed his plan, but again it’s pretty much what you expect (and Romney does it to) in a debate.
Once again a back and forth where neither side really scored, but if I were to score it one way or the other I’d give a slight edge to Obama because Romney gave him an easier path to calling ACA the same as Romneycare.
But like the debate so far pretty much a draw.
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Now moving on to health care
Needless to say the comments are pretty predictable. They haven’t even gotten very far but I can tell you that Romney will say ACA/Obamacare is bad and that we need to have better kind of reforms to help the public. Too many regulations, etc
Obama will say that ACA is helping people (probably with specific stories) and that getting rid of ACA will cause harm.
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Debating on regulation and financial markets. Romney says that he supports regulations but thinks that they need to be changed and improved. Says Dodd-Frank should not have designated banks as “too big to fail” and that many of the regulations are hurting things they didn’t intend to harm (wow a government regulation that is poorly executed).
Now on to entitlement, how do you differ on these issues: Obama gets the first response.
Begins by saying he and Romney are likely together on social security as a good program.
Then uses his family background to talk about how people on entitlements are all (or mostly all) poor and needy and thus should be on those programs. Clever way to contrast his background with Romney without directly saying so.
He goes on to say Social Security is fine and doesn’t need major changes.
Romney responds by agreeing that we should keep Social Security and Medicare as they are for those on the programs and those close to retirement age but that we may need changes for younger people who are years away from being on them.
He then hits Obama for the changes he says Obama has made to Medicare and how it is wrong to cut Medicare by billions. This is one of those both sides are arguably accurate kind of charges so I’m not sure how it will play.
Obama hits back by saying Ryan would give current seniors vouchers and force them to pay for their own insurance. Again one of those claims you can support either side depending on how you read things.
Romney talks about how many liberals have supported competition in the Medicare system.
Obama hits back with the idea that for profit health care raises costs, then hits back on vouchers, even though Romney has said he does not support vouchers for Medicare. Again if you like Obama you will agree with him if you like Romney you will support his view.
Both men agree that there is a clear choice between them on Medicare.
I’d call this one pretty much a draw, Medicare is one of those issues that if you are going to vote based on it there is not much anyone can say to change your point of view
Perhaps a slight edge to Romney in that he got out of the topic without saying anything to freak out seniors but I don’t think that’s worth giving him the score.
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Romney and Obama discussing merits of sending programs back to states, talk about dry discussions.
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Question #2 is on deficit and debt, how would you solve it
Romney gets first turn this time and says it is immoral to saddle next generation with debt. Says there are 3 ways, raise taxes, cut spending or grow economy. He says Obama would raise taxes while he supports cutting spending and growing economy.
His standard for spending cuts: Is it worth borrowing money from China to pay for this program ?
He says he would cut Obamacare (his words), PBS and some other similar programs plus look to shift some programs to the state level. He also says Obama has built more debt that all prior Presidents combined.
Obama starts out by pretty much playing the “blame Bush” card but also says he has supported cutting wasteful programs. Says he has cut more from discretionary spending than any President in 50+ years. Points to his web site as an example of what cuts he would make. Says for every $ 2.50 in spending cuts he would require $ 1 in tax hikes.
Again neither side really seeming to land a big blow yet, both pretty much saying they respect the other, both want good things and they just differ. Obama arguing that Romney would gut all federal programs while Romney says Obama would tax us to death.
Basically both arguing for increased revenue and spending cuts to balance budget (duh) but differ on how to get there, Romney saying economic growth would put more to work and they would thus pay taxes, Obama saying the wealthy should pay more.
This brings me to my view that the debates don’t really have much impact. If you started out pro-Obama you are going to love his statements and continue to support him. If you were pro-Romney, ditto. I haven’t taken time to check out the left or right blogs but I’m guessing that is where they are coming from.
Now if you were undecided I’m not sure it would change your views too much.
Overall I’d give this one slightly to Obama as he managed to use personal examples to connect on these topics a little better than Romney, so that ties us at 1-1 (to the degree anyone really wins or loses absent a major blunder by one man)
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Obama argues that the Clinton era is a good example of how tax increases don’t always hurt the economy.
Romney points out that his plan brings down both rates and deductions, argues that his plan would stop the cheaters and everyone would pay fairer share.
He highlights the fact the economy has continued to worsen and many more struggling.
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Lehrer chimes in to remind them they are over time but both Obama and Romney agree to finish up this subject with a few more questions.
So far both doing well, but neither doing great. In theory good for Obama.
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First question is on jobs: What is the difference between each of you on how you would create jobs ?
Obama first.
He starts with polite thank yous to Romney, the moderator and the crowd, also gets in a cute and sweet comment to Michelle wishing her a happy 20th anniversary.
He then goes into a pretty standard stump statement about how he is for the little guy and Romney for the rich. Again touches on the theme of how it is patriotic to pay taxes, etc.
A good basic summary but nothing really that special
Romney is smart enough to recognize the anniversary and makes a little joke about Obama spending it with him, gets a smile from Obama.
Then like Obama he goes into a pretty standard summary of his platform, summarizing his five points on job growth, energy independence. He says that Obama is a good man but that big government is the wrong way to work.
Gets off a line about trickle down government doesn’t work.. A good line.
On that exchange a tip to Romney.
Obama is invited to respond and talks about how he’s worked to hire teachers, expand college opportunities, agrees with Romney that corporate taxes are too high but then hits on shipping jobs overseas.
He then goes on to say how he and Romney agree on most goals but have different approaches and it’s bad to cut taxes on rich.
Romney offers his response back and talks about how the rich will do fine with either candidate (not a bad effort to deflect the rich guy issue) and then goes on to talk about his basic programs. He does emphasize the coal issue which is a clever targeted line to swing voters.
They are now going back and forth but pretty much saying the same things they already said. Both saying they want to help the middle class, give them more opportunities and jobs
Obama is doing a little better here at making connections (a line about tax cuts letting families buy computers for kids).
Overall I think the first question was pretty much a draw since both sides got out their bullet points. If you agree with one or the other you’ll love what they said, if you’re undecided not much help.
Perhaps a slight tip to Romney for the trickle down line
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And here we go…
President Obama and Governor Romney have entered to the usual polite applause and handshakes. Smiles all around as the each man hopes the other will fall flat on his face.
Isn’t politics fun ?
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Good evening all and welcome to the 1st 2012 Presidential Debate.
I’ll be doing my best to live blog the proceedings as they go along, we’ve got about 15 minutes to go before they start and over on C-Span we can see the crowd getting instructions about the rules that they mostly won’t follow (like no applause, boos, etc).