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  • Salmenio

    Cute clip Joe. Tell me, why would someone use a man that screws his own Daughter as a comic representative of the Jewish people?

    In my opinion, Woody Allen is one hundred thousand times worse than Mel Gibson. You want to destroy Mel Gibson for what he “said”, but Sugar Daddy Woody Allen goes unscathed by fellow Jews for what he “did”.

    Cry me a guilt trip Joe, I really want to hear this.

  • Joe

    Get a life.

  • Salmenio

    “Get a life”, is your answer?

    Oh I see…right…maybe I should marry my daughter? Sorry, don’t want a Woody Allen life. I have two daughters and I sure as hell don’t want to screw them. Incest is not an acceptable lifestyle in my religion. We excommunicate for that.

    Am I an Anti-Semite for pointing out Jewish iniquity and hypocrisy here? Why is Woody Allen still in the business Joe? Because he is a Jew? Why is Mel Gibson’s career being threatened Joe? Because he is NOT a Jew, or, because he is a Catholic?

    It takes more than your mouth to make you an anti-anything.

  • AustinRoth

    Salmenio – I am not defending Woody, as I think the whole Soon-Yi Previn thing was reprehensible, but it wasn’t incest. There has to be a biological connection. The definition of incest is, “Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal.”

    It may have been child abuse, child molestation, or pedophilia, as she was supposedly 14 when their affair started. There were also some indications that it may have started even sooner than that.

    There were also accusations, of which he was admittedly found not guilty, of fondling of his other adoptive daughter Dylan, who was 7 at the time. The judge did state that there wasn’t sufficient evidence for a conviction, but his behavior towards her was clearly inappropiate, and denied him any visition rights.

    So, while Woody is a perverted piece of scum, at least in my estimation, he didn’t commit incest.

  • MichaelF

    Austin Roth said :

    It may have been child abuse, child molestation, or pedophilia, as she was supposedly 14 when their affair started.

    It certainly isn’t pedophilia .But it is wrong and improper based on my own morals .

    Austin Roth said :
    So, while Woody is a perverted piece of scum, at least in my estimation, he didn’t commit incest.

    I admit I don’t follow such things as closely as most so I will admit I do not have enough information to form an opinion on the matter . However , I would note that Allen is a damn fine director .

  • Joe

    SAL: I need to let you know right now that you are on VERY thin ice. I truly am sick of reading constant comments left by you about Jews. I have deleted two of your comments already. I would urge you to stick to issues. I have gotten lots of emails from people on both ends of the political spectrum who are highly critical of me for letting this go on. It is reaching its limit. Fast.

  • AustinRoth

    MichealF –

    Don’t feel the need to keep the Woody thing going much longer, but if it started at 12, 10, or even younger (as the unsubstantiated rumors have it), then it is pedophilia. I do agree that as a rule 14 isn’t pedophilia (despite the current moral climate that men shouldn’t find any woman or girl younger than 21 sexually attractive without being made to feel like a pervert).

    As he was accused (and likely guilty) of fondling his 7 year old daughter as well, it is likely he started younger that 14 with Soon-Yi Previn. IMO.

    I think that 14 was an agreed upon lie between them specifically to prevent him being charged with child molestation.

    And I also think he WAS a good director, but those days are decades in the past.

  • “As he was accused (and likely guilty) of fondling his 7 year old daughter as well, ”

    I assume anyone making such an ugly, disgusting, evil, accusation, can provide a cite.

    If not, I’ll assume they are an ugly, disgusting, evil, person.

    Ick. (So far as I know, this is made up out of absolutely nothing; talk about anti-Semitism….)

    Wow! People will accuse Jews of anything.

    But here we see the ugly.

  • No, wait, I don’t need to see a cite towards an “accusation.”

    And, as it happens, many religious Jews hate Woody Allen and call him, yes, a “self-hating” Jew.

    The haters of the secular Jews have a lot in common.

  • Julie

    Is Mel Gibson really a newsworthy story, still? Is he worth the waste of time to think up witty repartee, to post funny links, and/or write scathing posts toward each other? I think not.

    A post that I would find of interest here, Mr. Gandleman, would be the secular, white European view of Israel and the Jews, which isn’t very positive right now. Frankly it’s shocking, and it’s being under-reported.

    All right you TMV bloggers and posters, stop the personal attacks and get to work! I’ve given you an assignment…

  • Joe

    That’s a truly funny satire. Just in technical terms the editing, use of music, etc is amazing. I have no regrets about posting it and thank Gary for bringing it to my attention.

  • Julie, as a co-blogger I’d like to thank you for the assignment you have given us.
    Be sure that it could be, maybe, possible that perhaps we’ll write something that you find somewhat more interesting in the future.

    A post that I would find of interest here, Mr. Gandleman, would be the secular, white European view of Israel and the Jews, which isn’t very positive right now. Frankly it’s shocking, and it’s being under-reported.

    I am a white European.

    My parents are white Europeans.

    My sister and her husband are white Europeans.

    Most of my friends are white Europeans.

    A lot of my fellow students are while Europeans.

    Do you have any information to back that claim up? What I read is that it aren’t the white Europeans, as you claim, who become more aggressive / negatively outspoken about Israel.

  • AustinRoth

    Mr. Farber –

    Here is a cite:

    From Wikipedia:

    “After Allen and Farrow separated, a long, public legal battle for the custody of their three children began. During the proceedings, Farrow alleged that Allen had sexually molested their adopted daughter Malone, who was then seven-years old.

    The judge eventually concluded that the sex abuse charges were inconclusive.[8] but called Allen’s conduct with his daughter “inappropriate.”[9]

    Farrow ultimately won the custody battle over their children. Allen was denied visitation rights with Malone (Dylan) and could only see Ronan under supervision. Misha, who was then 14, chose not to see his father.”

    Footnote 8 – Brozan, Nadine. “Chronicle,” The New York Times, May 13, 1994.

    Footnote 9 – Henneberger, Melinda. “Connecticut Prosecutor Won’t File Charges Against Woody Allen,” The New York Times, September 25, 1993″

    Here is another:

    Farrow Testifies That Daughter Accused Allen of Molestation

    And another:

    Allen Loses to Farrow in Bitter Custody Battle

    I do not have access to LEXIS-NEXIS, so I can’t do links to the actual court filings (which may be under seal anyway).

    I also have been posting here for years, and I dare you to find one anti-semitic post of mine. I know that all the regulars here know for a fact I am not, and have called out posters for being so.

    Pointing out the negative aspects of a likely child molester who happens to be both famous and Jewish is not anti-semitic. And just because he was not found guilty doesn’t make him innocent, either. Unless you think OJ is still looking for the real killer(s).

  • Austin, don’t respond to that. We all know you are anything but an anti-Semite. You are one of the most appreciated and respected commenters here.

  • Salmenio

    AustinRoth

    Oh it was incest. He was the only father she had ever known. Her mind will never be the same. How dare you defend him for “political” reasons. Disgusting.

  • Salmenio

    MichaelF

    I wonder why you don’t have enough information on the matter? Is it because the Jewish saturated media is making a BIG DEAL out of Mel Gibson and sort of “poo poos” Woody? Even hires HIM to represent Jewish attacks against Mel? Its so friggen arrogantly sickening as to make twinge every time I speak with a Jew. I keep seeing Woody Allen’s face. So now I’m an anti-semite? How many MILLIONS are just like me now?

    Woody Allen is a MF animal and Jews in the business are ignoring it while persecuting Mel Gibson. Pretty clear where their priorities lay.

  • Salmenio

    Joe

    Good ban me Joe, wipe out all my posts. Let everybody here see your predjudice, and, create a PERMANENT anti-semite. BTW, you are not even the slightest funny either.

  • Joe

    OK, Sal. YOU ARE BANNED. You asked me to do it, and we’ve all had enough. That includes all of my cobloggers, Democrats and Republicans. You should go to Blogger and create your own blog. I’m not removing your other comments that are already on the site — and I will leave your comment above here since it shows that you virtually dared me to ban you. And, no, I don’t think banning you is going to make you more of an anti-semite or that letting you continue on will enrich your perspective here. It’s clear where you are coming from. I took a lot of grief from cobloggers, several top bloggers of the left and right and readers for weeks because I absolutely refused to ban you but I simply don’t have time for this and don’t want it on this site. You have literally asked me to ban you, so you’re now getting your wish.

  • jaymaster

    Thanks, Joe.

    I know you struggled with this decision for a long time. IMO, you went way beyond the call of duty, and gave Sal chance after chance to clean up his act.

    People like him don’t want to discuss issues. They don’t even want to argue. They just want to spew and rant. Your advice for him to start his own blog was spot on.

    You should feel no remorse over this. I am sure it will make your blog a better place.

  • Joe

    Thanks Jay. I will be doing a post on this whole issue based on a highly thoughtful email from Jack Grant, our coblogger who is the epitome of an original thinker. I’m probably not going to wait so long next someone doesn’t get the hint.

  • MichaelF

    AustinRoth said:

    Pointing out the negative aspects of a likely child molester who happens to be both famous and Jewish is not anti-semitic. And just because he was not found guilty doesn’t make him innocent, either.

    It would only be anti-Semitic if you concluded that his being Jewish was relevant his being a child molester. However, based on the information provided here, I would not feel confident in drawing any firm conclusions as to the guilt or innocence of Mr. Allen.

  • MichaelF

    AustinRoth said :

    I also have been posting here for years, and I dare you to find one anti-semitic post of mine. I know that all the regulars here know for a fact I am not, and have called out posters for being so.

    Michael van der Galien :
    Austin, don’t respond to that. We all know you are anything but an anti-Semite. You are one of the most appreciated and respected commenters here.

    Although I have not had the pleasure of reading Mr. Roth as often as Michael van der Galien , I have yet to see anything that could be remotely classified as anti-Semitic. At times I have disagreed with some of his conclusions and have questioned what he presents as facts or evidence to support his conclusions. But his thoughts are always presented with a particular concern for honest debate. I could not imagine a more valuable asset for a commencer on any serious Blog.

  • Joe

    All the comments other people made are NOT in the same class as the comments of the person we have just banned, who has been a constant problem. I suggested he go to Blogger and create his own site where his style of commentary would be welcome and he could set the tone of his own site there. I have NOT said the same about anyone else who has commented on this or other posts, even if they disagree with me on what I write.

  • AustinRoth

    MichaelF –

    Thanks for the kind words. Genuine disagreement on facts and/or conclusions debated vigorously but honestly is the main reason I come around. Although I have admittedly allowed myself to get caught up in pissing contests on occasion.

    If we all felt the same way on everything, there would be no intellectual exercise or stimulation. There have been times that my views have been changed by comments, posts, and discussions here at TMV. I also stake out diametric positions from views that I actually agree with occasionally when I think the point is being made either without a sense of fairness to the opposite view, or if it presented intellectually dishonestly.

    Bottom line – I enjoy good debates, and try to learn from everyone who is posting seriously, whether or not I agree with them.

    Joe –

    You know I think you took too long to make the call. In the beginning, I was hoping a warning or two would work, as on occasion Sal could make insightful and interesting points of discussion. But like so many ‘bomb throwers’, eventually the need to be as abrasive as possible became his only characteristic.

    I do admire the personal qualities you exhibited in extending every opportunity to allow Sal to continue to contribute. I also think that were you yourself not Jewish, and trying to avoid any appearance of banning him for criticizing your heritage, you may have banned him sooner. If his comments had been directed at Blacks, or some other minority, I think you would have had an easier time in your mind justifying the decision earlier. Maybe I am wrong.

    I for one will not miss him, or the hate and intolerance that he spewed throughout TMV for the past months.

    I do hope that this whole escapade does not sour you on running your site, that this action proves to be addition by subtraction, and that a more civil tone, while still freewheeling and fully open, returns to The Moderate Voice.

  • Sal is a classic troll. He’s been banned from several sites, after repeated warnings, for continuing to “push the envelope” of acceptable discourse.

    What I find particularly revealing about this thread is that it’s the first time I’ve seen Sal in anti-semitic mode. I’m more familiar with the anti-military Salmenio, who likes to start fights in the comment sections of various military blogs.

    There’s a common denominator: Sal likes to start fights. No matter what the topic, he’ll take a contrary opinion, and push it to the limit until everyone else loses their patience with him. When he finally (and inevitably) gets banned, he just moves on somewhere else and starts over again.

    Joe, you have the patience of a saint. I banned Sal months ago. He probably found your site through a link in one of my posts. For this, I apologize.

  • Julie

    Michael:

    My apologies for not being more specific in my comments. I have a personal friend from England. He (and many of his English friends) do not agree with anything Israel has done. Then I recall a woman interviewer on CNN, from England I believe, asking some tough questions of an Israeli government representative. The questions were tough enough that they almost went over to…I don’t know…a Hezbolla POV. Maybe it’s not the Netherlands, at all. Maybe I was wrong in generalizing that all of Europe has a problem with Israel. Maybe it’s a certain segment of English people.

    I see that your whole family is white. Congratulations. By “white” in my post, I meant Europeans that aren’t Muslim. Sorry for the misunderstanding…but that is all I meant by it.

    I stand by my original assertion in my post: Mel Gibson’s drunken rant is NOT NEWS. People say stupid stuff all the time…it is too bad that his hatefulness–and Joe’s subsequent post–has caused problems here at TMV. But it didn’t have to be that way since he isn’t worth the trouble.

  • Julie:

    I see that your whole family is white. Congratulations. By “white” in my post, I meant Europeans that aren’t Muslim. Sorry for the misunderstanding…but that is all I meant by it.

    I don’t see why I should be congratulated for that, personally I feel attracted to dark skinned women. 😉

  • BrianOfAtlanta

    I found the clip very well done and amusing. The Woody part was the classic Woody I remember and think well of. Though I find him loathsome today, I still remember sketches like that one fondly.

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