Quote Of The Day: “Credibility Gap”
TMV NOTE: I used to work as a staff reporter for the San Diego Union, which later merged with the Tribune. Its editorial page is considered to be Republican. Today it ran a stinging editorial about the Foley scandal. Here’s the last part of it:
Now come even more disturbing revelations that it was common knowledge among the ranks of pages that Foley was someone to steer clear of, that the Florida congressman was known for making inappropriate advances toward the underaged, that this was known for more than a dozen years. A dozen years! And Hastert insists he only found out about the extent of the problem last week?It’s horrid. You’ll recall these are the same House Republican leaders who, just a few months ago, were busy lecturing Americans about how they had such enormous respect for law and order that they would never go along with giving illegal immigration what they called amnesty.
And yet, here they were, offering a de-facto amnesty to one of their own, a sick individual with obvious pedophilic tendencies.
And their defense? They didn’t know – didn’t know there was more to this than “overly friendlyâ€? e-mails, didn’t know the conduct involved other youngsters, didn’t know Foley wasn’t being honest with them about the extent of his sickness, didn’t know, didn’t know…
The Justice Department is investigating this matter, as well it should. But House Republicans may not have the luxury of waiting for the result. They may have to take action to preserve their credibility and convince Americans they understand the gravity of this scandal. And if they don’t understand by now, they never will.
Read the whole thing.
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But they thought Foley was just mentoring the kid! Is anyone truly stupid enough to buy that???
Joe:
The editorial says “among the ranks of pages”, it doesn’t say “among pages and GOP leaders”. the last time I checked, kids don’t always tell adults – whether a parent or other adult in a position of authority – things adults need or want to know.
But let’s presume it was known outside the tight circle of pages… are you suggesting that this news was only known to Republican Congressmen, that Democrats were all kept in the dark, even by their own pages? If not, where’s your outrage at the Democrats who learned of this and, until they leaked this info to the media, did nothing?
And the editorial’s cleverness at tying this with the immigration debate is way over my head. Doesn’t amnesty require someone to know of what is being forgiven?
And in a bit of Sherlock Holmes’ ‘dog that wasn’t barking’, I wonder why you and your fellow critics, if you were truly concerned about these poor pages, aren’t calling for a full investigation to determine if others in Congress – of both parties – are engaging in similar behavior? It wouldn’t be because you’re not that interested in learning that there might be a Democrat or two who might be doing something improper, would it?
Preserve their credibility! Are you nuts? Or are you just a common “In the middle” drugged out imbecile?
Steve: My estimation of you just went down several notches. Just where in any of my posts did I say or imply I would not be upset if Democrats did it. There are no indications as of yet that Democrats had seen these emails at all. Go back and read the earlier stories. You are going on the offensive against me because you didn’t like what I wrote about a party you support. I don’t have time to play that game and when people do it it’s a waste of time dealing with it. Re-read my lead in to this editorial.The San Diego Union Tribune is a rock ribbed editorial board newspaper and has been such since Jim Copley ran it. Robert Caldwell (who I liked very much when I worked on the paper) is the Sunday editorial page editor and he routinely gets lambasted on the local Air America station. You CHARGE that I’m not interested in the Democrats. With that I say “adios” Steve, because when someone goes on the offensive and charges I am saying something I didn’t say then I just write my posts and leave them. Re-read my posts. I don’t think I ever said this was only bad because Republicans did it. And I refer you to my previous posts with Republicans who are as or more outrated as I am. See ya. No more time for comments and certainly no more time to read more attempts to put words in my mouth. ADIOS.
I will have to dig this up for citation, but I recall hearing or reading that Foley preyed on Republican pages. As a predator, he knew that ambitious pages would keep quiet lest they sacrifice future employment or ties to the Republican Party. This fits into the predator story in two ways: One – Foley is a predator who singled out “victums who wouldn’t make his advances public;
Two – These “victums would keep quiet or if their story became Party knowlege, would respect the parties wishes, maybe with a reward as Party staffers. This sounds like a “tin hat story”, but fits into the scandal developements.
I did some Googling and my take in the comment above is only found on Moonbat websites. While it may have a grain of truth, it is a rumor that only belongs at the NE.
Joe – Nice take down on Steve Sturm. His website won’t be confused with CQ, he sounds like a Lincoln Group hack.
Joe:
Maybe I am reading between the lines too much – of your post and others – but it seems to me that critics – of Foley and the alleged cover-up – were focused only on Foley and only on the GOP leaders who were supposed to have known and done nothing… and not on what I consider the big picture of whether there are others in Congress who are abusing their positions of authority and whether their colleagues are covering up for them. To focus only on Foley/Hastert meant, at least to me, that one was either an ostrich or partisan.
I didn’t take your post as you intended… to bring to our attention what a conservative leaning editorial board is saying in its editorials, I took it as your endorsement of the editorial… and I got a tad upset at the thought that even you – certainly no ostrich and demonstrably no partisan (although I can’t say the same about your co-contributors) – were jumping on the “only Foley, only Hastert” bandwagon. Now that you’ve made what you were doing clear to even someone as slow as me, I understand. My bad and my apologies.
Now, as far as your allegation that my response to you was dictated by your attacking the party I support, while I sure don’t like the Democrats, please remember it was my criticism of Republicans and their abuses of power that first brought me to your attention. In fact, how many Republicans are as harsh on GOP leaders as I have been?
Again, sorry for misinterpreting what you posted.
Steve
P.S. Rudi: I understand hack, but Lincoln Group?
Allow me to fill you in Steve.
The Lincoln Group (formerly known as Iraqex) is a Washington, DC subcontractor with operations in Iraq hired by the United States military to perform public relations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_group
I don’t think Rudi is too far off the mark. When you see someone posting online like this, looking at a Republican scandal, involving the GOP leadership, a little damage control is not unheard of.
Are you outraged that Fox News sat on this story and let it evolve into an “october suprise”?
Somehow I think not. But go ahead and rant on against the democrats in this instance. Here’s a suggested line.
It’s a redstate winner I tell ya. Run with it.
steve sturm, who is in leadership positions? Whose responsibility is it to do investigations? How many investigations have the Democrats been able to launch without Republican support?
You want to investigate everyone in Congress, go ahead. But first things first: Foley and those above him and directly implicated who knew and did nothing (perhaps including Hastert, Boehner, Reynolds, Shimkus, etc).
After that, if you want a witch hunt, go right ahead. The FBI is apparently already investigating. You want the Congress to investigate themselves? Write your Congressman then. Republicans have the power to launch this investigation you seem to want. Write them.
Keep in mind, if this goes to the ethics committee as it exists now it will be years before we hear the result: nothing.
The fact of the matter is this Steve.
Poeple have had it with the “But the Democrats….” line.
Its weak and its tired and it doesn’t work anymore. Heres’ a tip for your party. Take some damn personal responsibility for once. It will be new and different, and people will like it.
Me personally, I dont think the averege GOoPer can do it. Some kind of DNA thing.
But I see that CREW turned all this stuff over to the FBI quite a while back, and Bush’s FBI did nothing. Repeat, CREW turned all this over to the FBI, and they did nothing.
So that kind of makes your whole partisan attempt at spin more like a lie
Thats right, I said it. Your whole bunch of partisan hacks are liars. If comes form Hanitty,or Limbaugh, or Powerline its a damn lie.
The time for civility with liars is over.
You can read about what a bunch of liars you hacks really are by going to the source.
Americanblog
Your guys covered for a perv in order to retain power. I personally knew they were this slimy, but now everybody knows. There is suppossed to be bombshells coming out about yet another GOoPer perv.
Must suck to be on your side. Its beautiful being over here on the side of truth and light.
I’m not ranting against Democrats, I’m upset at anybody and everybody who (1) knew of this and kept it quiet (including Foxnews if they did as you point out) or who chose to not pursue it for whatever reason and (2) knows of anything similar involving others on the Hill and are keeping quiet.
I don’t think of this as a ‘GOP’ scandal, although admittedly right now it only involves GOPers. I think of it more as just one more sordid chapter in the running Congressional scandal, where those in both parties abuse their power, feather their own beds and look out and cover up for each other… and my point in (mistakingly) going after Joe was to criticize those who are treating this solely as a GOP problem, for partisan advantage, and overlooking the possibility that there are other Foleys doing similar things…. maybe some Democrats, maybe some Republicans. But I don’t care, I want them all exposed and gone. If that means the GOP loses control and my taxes go up, so be it.
Just as I really doubt that Cunningham and Jefferson are the only two to take bribes and that Ney is the only one to take favors from lobbyists, or that Mollohan is the only one to gain financially from partnerships with those doing business with the government, or that Allen is the only one to have used racist language, I doubt that Foley is the only one engaging in behavior such as he did.
Go ahead and criticize Foley.. and Hastert and anyone else who ignored the information or who didn’t aggressively follow it up. I certainly have. But let’s not bury our heads in the sand and pretend this is a one-time event… or that Republicans are the only ones who aren’t living up the standards we ought to expect of those in Congress.
And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with criticizing those – in the media and elsewhere – who held this information, whether they did so for political purposes or for any reason other than to confirm its authenticity. IF liberal groups were sitting on this and waiting until close to Election Day, that is reprehensible. And just as I put the burden on Hastert to prove that he didn’t sit on it, so too would I put the onus on the media and the others who are alleged to have had and sat on this story that they didn’t do so… in the same way that I would get wild p***ed if I learned that someone was aware of security lapses and was keeping it quiet until it could be used to embarass Bush. Tell me, is that wrong?
So, Franklin Group hack… me thinks not. But if it makes you feel better to think that those who criticize the story line are partisan hacks, then go right ahead.
Snark – Everyone knows that the Democrats have been buggering pages since the 1800′s, and that Republicans are God-fearing, upright moralists swimming against a tide of Hollywood-inspired filth and smut.
I think the Democrats invented these emails and IM’s, planted them on the Republican and the page’s computers, drugged Fordham, hypnotized him, and implanted false memories.
There is no doubt that these filthy pack of lies against an honorable, honest man like Rep. Foley, and the unprecedented smear campaign by the left-controlled MSM against Hastert is nothing but a coordinated attack by the DNR and Hillary.
Once the truth comes to light, they should expel her from the Senate, and turn the control of ABC, CBS, NBC over to Fox, and the New York Times, Los Angleles Times and all the other liberal-rubbish pieces of trash to the direct control of the RNC and Haliburton.
Good God Austin, I doubt there will be enough snark left in the world snark supply to make a good snark sandwich after that little snark-fest.
Say that 3 times fast!
Davebo,
Almost all experts or pundits are speak for a buck. The Democrats aren’t innocent either, what is needed is at the end of a show experts or spokesmen interests and think tanks should be displayed. Cleta Mitchell made the rounds and spoke the Republican talking points while debating a Democrat. Names came up, one of those was Conrad Burns of Montana. What Missy Mitchell failed to disclose is that her law firm has been hired to represent Burns in poltical matters. Politics and news is corrupt, they kiss up to each other at cocktail parties then are enemies on cable. Pat Buchanan and his man-love with Justin Raimondo is total hypocracy.
I pat myself on the back, the hack strikes back!!!!!
Steve Sturm- First my opinion of this congress is extremely low, and I am sure there are many others who may be tarnished as you say and have abused their power.
But until evidence surfaces against them, why blame the Democrats for bringing forth Foley’s e-mails? Because they’re the ones who stand to gain from the disintegration of the House? I don’t think you should make charges unless you have something besides your opinion to back them up.
I don’t think you should make charges unless you have something besides your opinion to back them up.
Kim darling, thats not how the Republican play book is diagramed. Smear first and check the facts never.
Cause the facts have a liberal bias and all.
Snarky – told you I lean more left than I pretend. I thought you in particular would like that little exercize in snarkyness.
BTW – I think Matt Stone of South Park fame summed up my position best when he said “I hate conservatives, but I really fucking hate liberals”.
Kim: Granted, I may not have been clear, but I’m not blaming the Democrats for bringing this out. I’m mad at those people who had this information and held on to it – whether to protect Foley or to wait until just the ‘right’ political time to get it out. If Hastert is to be castigated for not doing enough, as I believe he ought to be, so too should anyone else who knew of this or should have known of this and kept it to themselves… and that includes those in the media and the Democrats if they kept this information to themselves any longer than the absolute minimum amount of time it took to confirm its authenticity. Keeping this quiet is reprehensible – whether it was to protect Foley, protect the GOP majority or to wait until it could be used to the maximum political advantage. Now maybe it will turn out that only GOP leaders knew of this. If that is the case, then they are the only ones who ought to suffer. Is it really a stretch to think that there were people on both sides of the aisle who were aware or suspected something was going on?
Is it really a stretch to think that there were people on both sides of the aisle who were aware or suspected something was going on?
I will explain this fully to you. If you have any questions, I will be glad to answer them. Here we go.
Yes, it is really a stretch. You would have to go into that pre-determined to find the straw you are grasping for. The female member of the page board, a Republican didnt know. When CREW, a seriously partisan organization found out, they went to the FBI. I believe that move, while the right one, was probably partisan as hell. But when the FBI yawns in your face, you probably either think there is nothing there, or you cant do anything about it.
Also, in the poison climate the Republicans have created, anything the Dems would have said would have immeadiatly been jumped on as being partisan and wanting the terrorist to win.
So the only people who could have broke this were Republicans themselves, or Johny Law.
Turns out it was the Republicans.
Snarky –
Is it really a stretch to think that there were people on both sides of the aisle who were aware or suspected something was going on?
You underestimate the viciousness of politics by both parties. Neither are saints; both wallow in the gutter.
It is easily imaginable, especially if you used an apparently unconnected, non-political 2 month old blog to disseminate the information.
This is the exact point I have been discussing with Kim.
You underestimate the viciousness of politics by both parties. Neither are saints; both wallow in the gutter.
Maybe, but the truthiness of my 11:36 post still stands.
And I thought the Dems were the party of giving AQ therapy. That doesnt sound to vicious to me.
So let me get this straight. Im suppossed to believe the dems are to wimpy by half to deal with the new turban wearing Nazis. But I am also suppossed to beleive that while being extremely wimpy they are just as mean and vicious as the Republicans.
Sorry, I dont buy that. Also, i aint real fond of the establishment Dems which is why I am a proud member of the ‘nutroots’ and usurper of Holy Joe.
Tell me one damn thing the Pubs are doing to reform their party.
Silly games with St.John dont count.
steve sturm , you had better be careful of wording like that. Someone might accuse you of actually being a “moderate .”
Snarky – don’t try to compare apples and oranges to confuse the issue.
The question of ‘toughness’ on foreign policy is really about the willingness to use force and when it is appropiate, and the questions of international diplomacy. thes are items that reasonable people can disagree on the parameters of. The fact that the Republicans leverage that at this time to their advantage is no different than Democratic leveraging the peace movement to their advantage (execpt that it never didn’t work at the Presidential level, did it?- SNARK).
All joking aside, that is different than the pursiut of political power and manipulating the media. While the Republicans have suceeded more often in defining Democratic candiates on theor terms, a fair analysis of elections and campaigns reveals both sides use every dirty trick at their disposal.
You seem (most the time) like a rational person, even if we don’t always see eye-to-eye. But if you really believe that the Democratic party is either above or incapable of dirty tricks in the pursiut of power, then you are living in la-la land, and I guess you are not as rational as I though.
Damn, it is late (almost 2 AM here). Got to use the spell and grammer checkers before I post.
Actually, I wish the Dems would use dirtier tricks.
What they do try, they are not very good at. Since the moderates seem gullibale and easily gamed, Dems need to buck up and learn to be dirty rotton bastards too.
Dems have a superiour agenda, and more competent people when it comes to running the goverment. Parties will do that which works.And we so need the Dems to win one house.
So I think you might think more about the national mental outlook that seems to make this kind of crap mandatory.
If running a clean campaign based on good ideas worked, everybody would do it. Instead, even as recently as last election, voters have seemed to perfer the more evil bastards and so here we are. If Dems have to sucker punch the Pubs and kick them when they are down, I expect them to do what needs doing.
Its only the future of the country thats at stake.
I see that your irrational Dem hatred can never be overcome, so I will just chalk it up to being a limitation of yours.
I myself have many limitations and so this is just part of what it means to be human. Other than the Dem hate thing, your all-right in my book. We probably hate Hillary in equal measure, so thats something we can share.
The question of ‘toughness’ on foreign policy is really about the willingness to use force and when it is appropiate,
I also dispute this. People thought if Kerry couldnt stand up to the Swiftboaters, how would he stand up to the Terrorists?
The fact that he was trying to stay above the fray is never ever mentioned. There was no credit given at all.
So tell me the motivation the Dems would have for running a stand up sparkeling clean campaign?
Actually the above was a bad example of your specific point. I thin Dems are prepared to use force when its apropriate.
I think force was in no way appropriate in Iarq, as events have come to bear out.
But why its not apples and oranges is this. How Kerry ran his campaign had no real bearing on wether he would use force or not.
But the oppisition was able to turn it into just that.
So now I think I made some kind of point here, but Im really toO stoned on codine(twisted ankle) to know for sure.
Snarky – let me ask you the question that always comes to mind when people complain about how nasty elections are now.
When, exactly, was this golden age of rational, collegial elections that we have left behind? In which races for what offices, particularily national offices or key congressional seats, did both or either party and their operatives speak only with respectful tones about their esteemed and honorable opponent?
I say never. Politics and electioneering is, has, and always will be knock-down, bare-knuckle in-fighting by both candidates, each taking any advantage they think they can get away with (Rules? In a knife fight? No rules.)
Prove me wrong. Green Party candidates and the like do not count.
Actually the above was a bad example of your specific point. I thin Dems are prepared to use force when its apropriate.
I actually agree with that statement, if you just change it to ‘when they think its apropriate’. The difference is in when is it apropriate, and that is where I meant reasonable people can differ.
I think the Iraq attack was a good idea. I think the follow-up to the initial success of the military objectives has been abysmal, though, although admittedly I gave the benefit of the doubt for too long.
What turned me around was the Rummy statement about firing the next General who brought up post-action planning. That is inexcusable, and he should be fired for that alone (among other issues).
I say never. Politics and electioneering is, has, and always will be knock-down, bare-knuckle in-fighting by both candidates, each taking any advantage they think they can get away with (Rules? In a knife fight? No rules.)
Dude, I 100% agree. Thats why I keep wondering why you are so whiney about percieved Dem wrongdoings. Its a fight for the soul of America, maybe it needs to be who really really wants it is the ones who should rule. It starts by throwing out the Diebold machines as a minumum.
What I would really like to see is a level palying field and some truly fair refereeing.
And for cripes sakes, will someone please shut off the screechmonkeys on AM radio.
Anyway, the Codine is making me punchy as heck, and my syntax is all shot to hell(like it was ever worth a darn). So I must call it a night.
I cant wait to see who ate who in the morning.
Plenty of beautiful spin spin spin for breakfast.
And yeah, Im a blog junkie…
Thats why I keep wondering why you are so whiney about percieved Dem wrongdoings.
Ahh, whiney? That hurt.
Why do you want everyone to ignore that the Dems may not be completely squeaky clean on this issue? You don’t want any backlash against possible unethical actions (and if they knew months ago, and sat on it, it is unethical too) by Democratic operatives (naturally enough). And that is because this is one really sleazy situation, and you don’t want your Dems slimed by it. But if they played in the muck the deserve to get caught.
And yeah, Im a blog junkie…
Luckily I am not. I can quit anytime. After just one more post.
Snarky, I agree. Anyone who has voted for the Republican candidate and rationalized some of their negative ads as contributing to the greater good, shouldn’t be complaining now that the tables are turned.
Don’t worry. At their current rate of self destruction the Republicans won’t have to worry about a credibility gap because they won’t have any left except among the absolute most die-hard dittoheads and their “spiritual” brothers and sisters.