Frum: Republican Waterloo
Former Bush speechwriter David Frum says it’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the GOP disaster. And he blames this “most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s” on conservatives and Republicans:
At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.
Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.
This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.
Read the whole post. His conclusion:
When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.
So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.
Do you think maybe we’ll see the re-emergence of some moderate Republicans?
Frum video above via TPM. Below, for fun…
71 Responses to “Frum: Republican Waterloo”
Political lines will have to be redrawn, but this is by no means the Rep Waterloo. I'll agree with superdestroyer and say changing demographics will be their downfall if they don't appear to become more hispanic friendly.
Good news for Reps is that Obama is working with a D and a R on immigration…his next little task.
Interesting that, after the hopes of so many that Obama would fail, that this would be his Waterloo, suddenly the shoe might be on the other foot. I said, “might”
Broken record: I'd rather have new parties.
I thought you were starting one? Do you guys have candidates (T) for the next election? Plans for 2012? The more the merrier….at least 3 more would be nice.
Prof, I allowed myself the fantasy that Democrats lost on HCR then, like the Whigs post 1858, broke up in the aftermath of devastating losses in the 2010 elections. And a new party emerged by 2012.
Alas, it's looking like we'll be stuck with both the Democrats & Republicans for a while still.
The tea party? no. Libertarians have had ballot status for years, and do a pretty good job of covering the available offices. I'd be just as happy to help start a Green or Constitution group, though.
Yep!.. They (the wing nut politicians) can't understand how they could possibly have lost an election and they have decided that their only goal since the Democrats won the last election is to regain control… Whatever the cost.
They have NO concern with passing legislation needed to get OUR country back on it's feet… They have NO concern about putting partisanship and corporate interests before their constituents… They have NO concern for the hostile, racist environment their rhetoric has created.
AND, they have NO idea how most of middle, non political, America sees them and their actions… Their feelings were hurt last election and nothing other than regaining control will satisfy them.
I could have sworn you once said that you were part of your local tea party group. I kind of figured you were a libertarian
If you're familiar with the “Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy” series, too many people are still scared that the wrong lizard will get elected.
How long will it take for someone to ask Rush and Sarah: How's that ' nopey ', changey stuff working out for ya?
You might as well get used to the coming one party state. The Democrats have just create a new entitlement class that will automatically vote for the Democrats as long as they believe that someone else if paying for their healthcare. The Waterloo for the Republicans was in the 1980's when the Reagan Administraiton supported open borders and unlimited immigration and decided to increase government spending. I hope the cheap dry wall and government contracts are worth it when the Reagan-philes are paying 50% plus in taxes.
I am part of a tea party. They just don't have anyone running for office. We might endorse someone when we find out more. Mostly, we're still working on education and advocating for fiscal responsibility at the more local levels, which gets pretty educational in and of itself (discovering obscure state and federal mandates).
David Frum's remarks are on target. In the short run the rightwing nuts will scream and rant. Dems will lose some seats this fall as expected. In the long run middle class voters will return to the moderate democratic candidates because health care reform is in their best interest. The repbulicans in the long run will suffer politically. Nixon understood the value of health care but, well, we know he had clay feet.
If moderate republicans like RR, GF & GHWB re-emerge the party may escape marginilzation. Eric Cantor seemed promising at first but now he just seems silly.
Wow! This is in reference to the GOP, in which case the concept of actual accountability is almost radical! We shall see…
How can you win anything appealing to the fringe? Cons need a new angle. Scott Brown was elected but he sounds more like a centrist democrat, more liberal than some of those Blue Dogs. McDonnell, in VA, ran in the middle, he did not even want Sarah Palin campaigning for him.
How can you win anything appealing to the fringe? Cons need a new angle. Scott Brown was elected but he sounds more like a centrist democrat, more liberal than some of those Blue Dogs. McDonnell, in VA, ran in the middle, he did not even want Sarah Palin campaigning for him.
I don't quite understand Frum's point. The Senate bill is sort of what you would get if there had been genuine compromise. As has been mentioned, mandated private insurance used to be the Republican alternative to the Dem plans as recently as the mid-90s. There are some further things I would have liked to see in a “compromise bill”. Probably a slower roll-out of certain features as finances improved, malpractice insurance is a real issue, etc. But, if there is going to be something like national health care, this IS the compromise bill. Is Frum's idea that the Republicans will get no credit for the good things in the bill since they opposed the whole thing always?
Could you tell me the community college you dropped out of? Dems will lose control of house and will be down to a 51-49 majority in the senate.
Healthcare reform is in everyones interest not just THIS bill. Your comments represent your bias rather than any intelligent thought.
This bill will lead to a single payer system( if the country actually exists) in ten years. Physician reimbursements will continue to decrease. You will be seen by PA'S AND NP(nurse practitioners- i'm sure for you i have to write things out). The physicians who are left will be taking on more patient care and alot of risk(do you see malpractice reforms?).
Keep drinking your tea while reading the nytimes(or as i and other intelligent people refer to it as the NY crimes). Keep dreaming of a democratic resurgence.
I am a democrat and a Catholic. I am embarrassed by this democratic congress and especially the Catholics who support this bill. The time is almost over for this group of dems. However, they will push more bills through illegally.Wait til day after Nov election UP UNTIL THE new congress is in session if you really want to see the sleaze that will predominate.
I presume you can read. Read “Rules for Radicals” by Saul Alinsky and this all becomes clear. Any of us on here could have beat John McCain. This is not a swipe at him but people just wanted someone who wasn't a Republican.I told people the best way to defeat these left wing nuts, kooks, freaks is to let them govern and pass bills and they will show their true colors.
Enjoy your fantasy world for tonight it will be short lived.
Accountability is coming soon … November to be precise.
kingofpaint says – ” I am a democrat . . ” Could have fooled me.
I am a Unitarian and an independent. Have a drink or something, it might neutalize your bile. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.
“the fantasy that Democrats lost on HCR then, like the Whigs post 1858, broke up in the aftermath of devastating losses in the 2010 elections. And a new party emerged by 2012″
Actually, Joe W., if I were running the Green Party, I'd be recruiting all the frustrated farther-lefties (true lefties, they say) I could, as well as starting a ballot-access initiative prior to the November elections.
Where do you one post trolls come from? You waltz in, insult people, and never return.
The frustrated lefty I heard on the radio was wrong, but was very entertaining, nevertheless:
“The Democrats have moved to the Right, and the Republicans have moved into the insane asylum.”
“You might as well get used to the coming one party state.”
I still like the lib-Dem (“Moderate” on this site) vision of a token Republican party, singing and dancing in blueface. (Or is that redface?)
“Is Frum's idea that the Republicans will get no credit for the good things in the bill since they opposed the whole thing always?”
If history is any guide, Frum's idea is that the Republicans sinned by not being “compassionate” enough.
I' m here little girl. Do you actually have something to add or were you hoping i wouldn't see it?What is your point? I am here just to monitor you fools but i am glad to argue. Please shannon tell me what you think? Maybe you should watch what is going on in the house now before you open your mouth little girl.
Democrats are not socialist or communists. i have a feeling you fit into one of those two categories. I can't spend alot of time with people who can only speak via an anonymous internet posting. That was such a strong response from you(LMAO). Did i hurt your feelings loser?
When you can actually discuss this bill,soon to be law, come back child!
Attacking people you don't agree with is no substitute for a lack of ideas. How about taking your little attitude someplace more appropriately adolescent. You won't impress anyone here.
You didn't see facts in my first post? is it that you want only people with your own opinion on here. I f you actually read the book i recommended in my first post you would see that ridicule is the perfect way to expose those who have only opinions and no facts. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? I'll make it easy on you. GO TO WIKIPEDIA- i'm sure that is only place you have gotten info from- and look up Saul Alinsky and she who is biggest follower in modern day america. The internet cowardice continues. Let me see: you just got home from working at the gas station and you thought you would get on thi site to take a break from internet porn. GET SOME GUTS and FACTS.
Frum is saying the republicans surrendered their place at the table by ceding to the far right wingnuts like Rush L. their voice in the health care discussion. The voice which was anger, irrationality and self serving positions. Of course, they (Fox, Rush L. et. al.) laughed all the way to the bank. The other side of the point is if the centrist republicans can re-emerge and sustain control of the party, they could avoid being marginalized in the future.
kingofpain, please tone it down. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to oppose this bill, so personal attacks and insults aren't productive or needed, if they ever are. This is a different kind of blog. Please offer your real objections to the legislation, or the post, and don't get into personal fights.
Sorry i have to go. I actually have a job and have to go to sleep. I hope all you losers, whiners and children will learn to come back at people with facts and not just ” Leave our little site” if you really want to learn anything and win any arguments you need to get facts. Don't be a lemming.
Methinks it might be a wee bit early to go celebrating the death of the Republicans. The effects of this thing have yet to be felt, but it seems pretty obvious to me that they're going to drive prices up a lot faster than you think.
kingofpaint says – ” I can't spend alot of time with people who can only speak via an anonymous internet posting . . .”
Please do me the honor of never addressing me again.
As far as remaining anonymous I shall do so. I believe that is the way these things work. And, oh yeah, sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.
In all seriousness….what brought you here? How did you hear about TMV?
Hey dude, Don Rickles did it a lot better better than you. Seriously, if you don't know how to make your point in a civilized way, you ain't gonna be here very long – and few people are going to care if you even do have a valid point – which remains to be seen btw.
It's certainly not the Dems' Waterloo, or rather Moscow, as of now.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2…
They have not been repelled and humiliated. The question isn't Moscow now, but how far onward — to the Urals, into Siberia, as far as Vladivostok?
What will the GOP do now? That is, other than filibuster and sabotage everything and earn Frum's disdain.
Chill… and/or go somewhere else. Debate ideas, no people.
You sir is the stereotype of the “tea-bagger” movement. Good thing there is more accurate and articulate examples, like ProfElwood.
For starters they could take an honest look at themselves and admit how badly the party has been rotted by the influence of FOX, Limbaugh, the conservative entertainers over the years. It's a first step, but a necessary one if they want to be taken seriously again. The infection is deep and widespread, but not terminal… yet.
David Gergen has said something similar to Frum.
I think we may be to close to the events to judge how they will be perceived two weeks from now much less in November.
I am sorry, the Gergen quote came from Think Progress.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/21/baby-killer/
“The Democrats have just create a new entitlement class that will automatically vote for the Democrats…” Interesting thought. Maybe the mid-term elections will not be the “blow-out” the Republican are hoping for? Guess we will have to just wait and see.
Sure, as moderate democrats lose their seats in November due to inability to oppose a progressive wing controlled Congress.
to Commenters: Comments have been removed. Sorry for the interruption in flow of comments after. Thanks for your help in keeping TMV a civil discussion, debate, teaching place.
Thanks
dr.e
Just a personal comment: There's a saying where I come from, that the buzzard always loses when he believes the sparrows wont react when he dive-bombs their nests.
Sparrows are tiny, but have incredibly sharp talons and beaks, but more so, fly like lightweight fighter planes, swooping under at low altitudes, making direct scathing hits, then flying away at sudden right angles. Righteous sparrows. Lots of banged up buzzards after.
I hope this made you smile
“The Democrats have just create a new entitlement class…”
Really? What entitlement class are you referring to? There ARE no entitlements in this bill.
There was never going to be a Republican blow out. There are too many Democrats in absolutely safe seats.
Giving free or subsidized health care transfer costs to 30 million additional people creates more automatic Democratic voters. And since others will pay the taxes to subsidized the helath care transfer costs, there is no downside.
The Democrats have probably now reached the point where more than 50% of the voters are dependent on government transfer payments. The only question is how will the Democrats grow the economy to fund all of the entitlement spending while the demographics of the U.S. become more like South-Central LA.
The “entitlement class” (to quote an oft used but poor definition) includes far too many republicans to use as a partisan pejorative. Keep reaching…
and what would a “new” party be able to do?