A Woman’s Place, Then and Now
I am currently reading an historical novel by English author Hilary Mantel about Sir Thomas Cromwell, the powerful adviser to King Henry VIII. It’s called Wolf Hall; it won the 2009 Man Booker Prize; and it’s a great read.
I may have more to say about the book when I’m done, but for now, I just want to highlight part of one paragraph, which I found quite arresting because it made me think about the way ideas and beliefs we no longer endorse — and for the most part would say we no longer believe — still affect societal attitudes and public policy. The paragraph is part of a conversation between Cromwell and his mentor, Cardinal Wolsey, who is the one speaking in the quoted paragraph. The woman they are discussing is Anne Boleyn — whom, of course, King Henry VIII wants to divorce his wife, Catherine of Aragon, to wed:
“Ah, but women, you see. Women reading the Bible, there’s another point of contention. Does she know what Brother Martin thinks is a woman’s place? We shouldn’t mourn, he says, if our wife or daughter dies in childbirth — she’s only doing what God made her for. Very harsh, Brother Martin, very intractable. And perhaps she is not a Bible woman. Perhaps it is a slur on her. …
That sentence I emphasized, when I read it for the first time, resonated in my ears almost in a physical sense. It seemed incredibly important, incredibly relevant. And it does seem to me that anyone who believes that this view of women — of a woman’s reason for being — does not linger, as a ghostly presence, underneath our public conversations about issues like abortion, pregnancy, childbirth, and the role of women in society in general, is fooling themselves.
9 Responses to “A Woman’s Place, Then and Now”
All I have to do is look at my wife's career in natural science and I can see blatant oppression. In her first biology class, the professor walked in and said out loud, “Once again, a new year and half of my class is full of women. Half of you will drop out and the other half will get married. I feel like I am wasting my time.”
There are certain professors that simply won't take her seriously just because she is a younger woman. She has to dress and wear her hair very conservatively at conferences and grant reviews. God forbid the cute little blond girl from Germany have something serious to contribute…and that is the thing…she has contributed…more than most of the people she has to deal with, but it isn't enough.
You wouldn't believe the hoops she has to jump through even today….and this is within academia!
The whole thing just really pisses me off.
I dunno, Shannon, advancing in one's career is hard, and hard in different ways for different people. Everyone brings their own personal advantages and disadvantages to it, and it sounds like your wife is experiencing her own mixture.
I can tell you in my academic experience in physical science, I saw plenty of the opposite. Professors who not only didn't make provocative challenges, but who never said anything memorable at all. Female colleagues finishing grad school, submitting CVs for junior faculty positions, and getting job offers back–not invitations to come interview like any man would have gotten, but job offers. My colleagues were left wondering how much to credit tokenism and how much to credit their backgrounds, but the opportunities were real and, like many career opportunities, unique to them.
So you're right, men and women don't face the same challenges in science. Nor do short versus tall people, nor smooth talkers versus the tongue-tied, nor do people divided along many other dimensions. The question is really what we can or should do about that, and whether doing so will make things better or worse.
And what does make things better? Are challenges good or bad? The prof who accuses you of wasting his time is giving you an extra challenge. The chairman who summarily sends you a job offer is taking a challenge away. Which is better for you in the long run? I don't have the answer.
[...] Kattenburg of themoderatevoice has some thought-provoking comments about the role of women in English history and how it is applied [...]
There ya go, shannonlee. The “challenge” of prejudice and stereotyping and outright sexism in your wife's career is probably better for her in the long run. Cmon, Dr. J. are you just spoiling for a fight or intentionally rationalizing sexism as possibly a good thing, or what?
My other thought reading your comment, shannonlee, was a quote I remenber from the book China, Inc. A university dean said “Biology departments today exist to transfer knowledge from old Jewish men to young Chinese women.” So the joke is probably on the old male professor, as he snarks against the next generation of top academics.
Kathy, shouldn't you just shut up and cleave to the beliefs of your husband? 1 Cor. 14:33b-36
Are you just spoiling for a fight or intentionally rationalizing sexism as possibly a good thing, or what?
The question I posed was about challenges in general, not specifically sexist ones. Are they a good thing or not?
Actually, I stopped taking Paul seriously when he told Jewish men that they were disgracing their heads by wearing head coverings, and then turned to the women and told them they were disgracing their heads by NOT wearing head coverings. So in one fell swoop he is both trying to turn Jews away from the requirements of Jewish law, AND telling women they are dirty, sinful creatures. That's 1 Cor 11: 2-5, but it gets even worse after that.
You can't advance in anything if you are not willing to take on challenges, but that isn't really the point now is it? Sexism, racism…you name it, can create impenetrable walls that no one's talent and hard work can overcome. I don't fault anyone that walks through a door that is opened because of their last name or who they studied under. What really upsets me is when those same doors are closed because of someone's sex. There are a lot of older people in natural sciences that feel that women are better suited for psychology….and should stay there.
China is sending MD's and PhD's all over the world. You have a mixed bag of people that want to learn and return, never return, and steal data and return. There are a lot of Chinese scientists doing great work in the US….keeping us on the cutting edge.