Sorry, you really have no idea what you're talking about. In fact, most of your comment really doesn't make much sense, particularly this: “Perhaps you'll find your answer.” Huh?

“A thick skin is another job requirement for bosses. And another reason it's not a job for everyone.”

Thanks for your awesome mansplanation and career advice. What would I do without you? Somehow I've managed to become the youngest manager at my company, but hey, I'm sure you're better qualified to tell me what my job requirements are.

Anyway, this is getting boring. Good luck and have a lovely weekend.

I've read his comments before, and I've found them generally rational and barbed, with a whiff of resentment. I have a low opinion of unions, and although “parasite class” is stronger than I'd put it, I can see his point.

I have no idea what it is you said that elicited an accusation of being racist.

Think back to whatever was going through your mind when you wrote “grow up and realize that white men are no longer the only people who are allowed work anymore.” Perhaps you'll find your answer.

Tiptoeing around the jerk boss while knowing for certain that the “b” word would apply to you if you were half as “strong a leader” as he.

Sorry, let me clarify: everyone has to tiptoe around the boss, not just minorities. People who have it backwards, who require the boss to tiptoe around them, don't get promoted, because they cause more headaches than they take away. The boss has plenty of her own already.

As for the injustice of the B-word, boo-friggin-hoo. A thick skin is another job requirement for bosses. And another reason it's not a job for everyone.

You didn't go back and read his earlier comments, did you? Again, even on posts where race has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter, he brings race into it. One of his new tricks seems to be calling blacks, Mexicans, and union workers the “parasite class”. The numerous, numerous racially charged comments he's made in the past make it really hard to give him the benefit of “interpretation” in this case. Your mileage may vary.

“Wow, you sure are handy with the “racist jokes” verdict.”

I have no idea what it is you said that illicited an accusation of being racist. I can either assume that whoever accused you of racism in the past was genuinely hurt by something you said, or that he/she was just being a jerk for no reason. There are jerks in every culture, but most people I know don't fein hurt just to make a fuss. Sometimes we say or do things that hurt others without meaning any harm — it happens all the time. In most situations (think of fights with loved ones), I think you'd agree that the best way to handle such a situation is to try and understand why the person is hurt, apologize, and do your best not to repeat the offense. This is no different with accusations of racism. It's no harder than apologizing to a friend or a loved one where you don't really understand why they've taken offense, but you also value them as a person enough to believe that they aren't faking being hurt. I can guarantee that if you take that approach when people indicate that they've been hurt by something you've said, you'll get far fewer accusations in the future.

“You don't rise in the ranks by being “allowed work” or demanding that everyone else tiptoe around you.”

As a minority in the workplace, I can say with utmost certainty that yes, you do. That is exactly how it feels for a minority to work in a primarily white male workplace Tiptoeing around the jerk boss while knowing for certain that the “b” word would apply to you if you were half as “strong a leader” as he. That the culture has formed itself around that norm to such an extent that you don't even notice it is exactly what is meant when people use the term “white male privilege”.

Between your dropped jaw, your falling hair, and your boggled mind, I'm growing concerned. I would hate for our conversation to leave you hobbling around town all deformed.

There's plenty of room for interpretation in what SD said, but the points I'm tracing are from the original post, pointing out the paucity of blacks in high tech. SD said that's because liberals don't actually welcome black so warmly, because everyone “knows” that black culture doesn't encourage overachievers. That's my reading. Your mileage may vary.

If it's so ingrained in certain white people to make/laugh at racist jokes, to causally say things that will make black co-workers feel uncomfortable in the workplace, maybe they should start minding their mouths.

Wow, you sure are handy with the “racist jokes” verdict. You figure the only people walking on eggshells are those dispensing racist jokes? Honestly, that's precisely the sort of offensive off-hand accusation I'm talking about. If you're going to make it, expect to be challenged to substantiate it.

The fact is school, work, and the rest of life are all competitive environments. You don't rise in the ranks by being “allowed work” or demanding that everyone else tiptoe around you. People won't see you as an overachiever, they'll see you with a chip on your shoulder. If you're genuinely suggesting we must alter that reality in order to give blacks a fair shake, you're essentially proving SD's point.

My jaw is dropped. Here is what he said: “if there are too many blacks in their workplace, that work becomes more difficult, success becomes rarer, and that life is harder.” That is NOT the same as “suggesting” that “such effects hold blacks back in the workplace.” That you would interpret such a thing out of that statement is mindboggling.

“No one accuses me of homophobia, but I'm regularly accused of racism on the most circumstantial of evidence, such as being white.”

Well, here's a thought: maybe you don't get accused of homphobia because you don't feel the need to defend people who think that someone's gayness makes them bad workers and unfit to work with straight people? I'm guessing that may be a factor.

“Does it leave well-meaning whites treading on eggshells around blacks? I know from experience that sometimes it does.”

I can't believe I have to say this, but honestly? Boo-friggin-hoo. If it's so ingrained in certain white people to make/laugh at racist jokes, to causally say things that will make black co-workers feel uncomfortable in the workplace, maybe they should start minding their mouths. I feel exactly the same way about men who complain that they can no longer make salacious comments about women in the workplace because the women who work there will be offended. Grow up and realize that white men are no longer the only people who are allowed work anymore. Not to mention the fact that women and people of color are keenly aware that they must watch their mouths at all times in a white male dominated workplace — and always have.

“And I don't think whites are nearly as fearful as SD implies.”

I don't either. But you know what? For those that are, they should probably grow up and get over it.

The jury story is an anecdote about a black person who accused a group of white people of racism. Maybe she was crazy, maybe she was exactly right; I don't know enough about the case to comment.

But what I do know is that case wasn't a one-off. Such accusations are tossed around casually and routinely, sometimes by minor Jesse Jacksons, more often by white liberals trying to atone for history. Does it leave well-meaning whites treading on eggshells around blacks? I know from experience that sometimes it does.

SD suggested some such effect holds blacks back in the workplace. I would imagine that's at best a minor factor compared to the economic and educational ones you mentioned, but to speculate on it is not IMHO a demonstration of racism.

I'm similarly moderate on gay issues. I'll correct and even mock anti-gay writers for the crazy claims they make, but I don't join the chorus accusing them of hatred.

If I'm defending Destroyer more zealously than I'd defend Jefferson, it's because I feel a bigger stake in the racism issue. No one accuses me of homophobia, but I'm regularly accused of racism on the most circumstantial of evidence, such as being white. I don't feel inclined to tolerate that. Racism should be a serious charge we take seriously and are prepared to defend seriously.

I know that in the past we've had discussions on why I feel it is, in fact, productive to call people out on subjects like racism. You seem to understand almost intuitively why it's important to do this when people make anti-gay slurs or say that gay people don't belong in particular work environments, or any of the other homophobic comments that we see on this board every time a gay issue comes up. You seem to understand that pointing out people's bigotry (overt or soft) against gay people is one way to make sure the speaker (and others reading) knows that the bigotry has not gone unnoticed, and that it's not acceptable. Why, then, does it seem like every time I make very similar comments toward pretty overt racism (it's quite overt in this case), you jump down my throat and act like I'm some sort of crazy person (whose hair is falling out) who is just looking for something to be upset about? Is it just that you don't think racism exists to the same degree as homophobia? Or that you think black people deserve the bigotry more? Maybe you or a loved one actually is gay, so you relate to that more?

My great grandma used to say that having black people move into a middle class white neighborhood lowered property values. This, while quite possibly statistically true, was not because black people were using their home to sell crack, and it was not because black people moving into a neighborhood meant that the neighborhood was going down hill. It was because white people didn't want to live next to black people, and a few black people were finally financially able to move into neighborhoods previously occupied only by whites. If that happened enough times to actually lower property values, then yeah, it could be a precursor to the neighborhood actually going down hill. Is this the fault of the original black family moving in, or the fault of the white people who find black people's very blackness repugnant? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy were the primary way to break the cycle is for white people to stop being racists.

Hopefully you can see the clear analogy. Great grandma got a pass because she was extremely old and grew up in a much different time; SD, I would assume, does not have that excuse. Unless you think that blackness itself is the cause of all black people's problems (somehow they are genetically stupider, lazier, etc), it becomes fairly clear that having an attitude like SD's (and yours?) that black people make the workplace worse off in all ways does become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Expectations tend to be met.

“Sorry if I offended.”

That's obviously untrue by the rest of that paragraph. SD's post was not level headed, and his “controvesial ideas” basically consist of the idea that white people are correct in not wanting black people in the workplace. Not only did he say this, but he attempted to splatter that clearly false and hateful crap onto many people he has no right to speak for. He used an entirely unrelated story about a juror to illustrate his point. If my tone is “emotional”, which I think is quite debatable anyway, that really has nothing to do with whether or not he's clearly feeling glorified in his own prejudicial thought process.

I point blame at our education system…well, really systems…because a lot of kids are in schools that simply cannot prepare them for a technical education. Culturally speaking, as long as being a gangster or a baller is cooler than getting an education, we won't see many blacks or hispanics in technical fields. We also won't see many people getting involved with public schools to help make them a place were kids can get a great education.

Well, is that statistically true or not? Or rather, is it statistically true that whites believe that, which was what SD said? Your response virtually concedes that it is, and then hastens to blame whites.

And don't condescend by telling me to “keep my hair on”

Sorry if I offended. SD's post was a level-headed presentation of some controversial ideas, your reply was an emotional attack. If you don't like “keep your hair on”, what phrase would you prefer?

“Elite whites know that if there are too many blacks in their workplace, that work becomes more difficult, success becomes rarer, and that life is harder.”

That is not merely “failing to moralize emphatically enough”. It is not “rooted in statistics”. It's a blatantly racist claim that a person's blackness makes hir a poor worker; it is stated as a fact that having black people in the workplace is bad for whites, bad for business, and even makes “life harder”. So not only do black people ruin the workplace, but they ruin “life”. If I “moralize” over such an overtly prejudicial, hateful, and demonstrably false claim, well, too damn bad. I find it a morally repugnant stance.

Keep your hair on, Roro. I'm not sure I agree with SD's claims, but they look like they're more rooted in statistics than any attempt to exalt racism.

You seem to be upset because, well, racism is bad and he's failing to moralize emphatically enough against it. In other words, the very notion of a fact-based discussion of the topic–free of moralizing in either direction–is anathema.

Look, if you are a racist jerk who doesn't want to work with black people, go on with your KKK self. Realize that you likely have no ability to control this, and if you do, you should be sued for discrimination.

“Black culture has diverge [sic] so much from the rest of the U.S. that it is like blacks live in a different country and no longer feel the need to interact with other Americans.”

This statement is so wrong-headed such as to verge on the absurd. When in the history of black people in the US has the black culture been in any way similar to the white culture? I'd say that right now it is much *more* similar than it has ever been before — you know, with black people being able to own themselves, vote, use the same bathrooms and restaurants and such. Now let's think for three seconds about whether the differences in culture were the fault of black people or the fault of white people. Hmm? It's also true that while you, a white person, can pretty much get by without interacting in any meaningful way with black people, most black people do not have the opposite luxury of not having to deal with racist people like you.

There are certainly problems with white so-called progressives who do not take issues of race seriously. I am very happy to point out the racism embedded deeply within the left whenever I see it. Your argument seems to rest on the idea that that racism is good, or at least justifiable and righteous. I, and most on the left (even those whites who, as you point out, rarely interact with people of color) think it's something to fight against.

You would have a point if the whites on the left did not appear to live their lives in a manner to avoid contact with blacks and Hispanics at all costs. From private schools to gated communities, the left consistently avoids contact with blacks.

We all know why. Black culture has diverge so much from the rest of the U.S. that it is like blacks live in a different country and no longer feel the need to interact with other Americans. The same can be said for Hispanics.

Elite whites know that if there are too many blacks in their workplace, that work becomes more difficult, success becomes rarer, and that life is harder. When President Obama is sending his own children to a virtually all white school and surrounds himself with white prep school and Ivy league graduates, it should be apparent that the elite in the U.S. know that black culture is a losing proposition.

* I see the contradiction that I used “diverse” in the title to my post.