LOL! I would be more correct for me to say the Cat stole me. . .she rules!

Thanks so much for the kind reply. Very well expressed. As this post is nearing the end of the front page, I will print your comment so I can review it more fully & get back another time. My initial reaction is an appreciation of your perspective, though I am still haunted by what I view as the counter productive people in costume outside the state penetentiary at execution hour and how we had to struggle to overcome those images in the public eye as we tried to get referenda passed to end capital punishment.

I particularly liked your explanation of the appeal to the female.

Your cat sounds wonderful. Did you steal it?

I sadly report that my Golden Retriever passed away several weeks ago. He, Steck, had been trained as a handicap assist dog who could not be placed because of a serious heart condition, but outlived all predictions by many years. His stocking hangs above the fireplace for the holidays and he is missed.

I had to stop and think about comparing PETA and Greenpeace in the same sentence, like you i have long admired Greenpeace. First heard of Greenpeace back in the late 60 or early seventies era. As a teenager i resonated with their stance on anti-nuclear protest and their powerful commitment to environmental issues: whaling, bottom trawling, global warming, old growth, nuclear power, and genetically modified organisms and as an adult i still do. Do you remember 'back in the day' when Greenpeace was so very controversial as they took on the whaling ships. They threw their bodies, hearts with such passion. It was covered each evening by the major news networks and remember vividly the family,community and school reactions to what they perceived as anarchy, if they would of known the word eco-terrorists back then they would of use it for Greenpeace. The parcel of Greenpeace feels very masculine in its passionate expression. Nowadays it seems that only causes that are sensationalized get air time. The non-dramatical advocate organizations are left to send newsletters with address stickers hoping to get a few dollars and even then they become soiled with legitimacy concerns. Maybe there is something in us that seeks to resist advocacy which suggests we need to make changes for the greater good and is imperative if we are going to have a life sustaining planet?

This is how i perceive PETA, some might be valid and some may just be the crook and slant of my mi-optic vision looking through a periscope at the kaleidoscope of these morphing bold wacky women that display themselves and gets publicized by PETA. I am only an on-looker of this organization, but once again i appreciate their passion for a cause that many would rather not see. I don't get bent out of shape when PETA displays the graphic mingling of violence with the explicit sexual to shock people. I have seen the real thing and that i become truly protest. Something in me sees PETA as coming from some kind of 'in the face' dreamscape theater of the feminine psyche. The rage of feminine exploitation, the long dark hidden history of women in the grip patriarchal dominance gets blended and woven into animal rights and welfare for the women and animals share history and many features of being forced into submission by the spirit of domination. It is a long ugly history, there is a lot stored in the collective pain body of women around this issue that gets played out so vividly in many of the images of PETA. Many of the images and ways of PETA are like little children smearing feces, it is ANGRY. IMHO there is something in the collective feminine psyche that needs expressing, and finally after thousands of years it is safe for these horrific symbolic images to be displayed for all to see. I see these women as serving all of us by airing that which would of killed them not so many years. With the display of the rage and the empowerment through symbolic dreamscape they have chosen a cause that so needs our understanding and compassion as to the ethical and humane consideration of all creatures. I like these twisted sisters and whatever theater it takes for them to bring awareness and expression that can lead them to greater space and self-containment i am heartened by.

PETA has passion, much like Greenpeace has passion. Both show their willingness to put themselves on the line. Greenpeace put their courage and bodies, and PETA puts their psyche and primal fury and that too is courageous. We all know that old saying; “There is a thin line between love and hate”, PETA has definitely tripped onto the darkside of that one.

I do believe PETA has brought some positive changes. So many dislike PETA but they have greatly reduced the use of fur coats used for glamor and affluence grabs. They have caused many science, industry, big farm and circuses to raise their standards in spite of the fact of their nasty ways. Many places do not want PETA on their tails in the same way one does not want wasp in the car while driving.

Sometimes PETA makes me laugh, or at least i think it was PETA that took the fake fox scent to throw off the Fox Hunts in England. Now Tidbits i like that one, the imagery is choice.

PETA says that pet ownership is akin to slavery. Just last night i thinking about PETA and pushed it to the back of the mind for my cat was wanting to watch a video. She loves the laptop and a few times a week i find an animal video and she sat inches from the screen and watches the entire video. Last night i came across Meer Cat Manor a series on Animal Planet. It is only 20 minutes and thought it would be just right for Luna. We ended up watching two hours of Meer Cats. The same reason i like watching the Meer Cats is the same reason i like watching PETA. There are some real behavioral similarities lots of vigilance, gutsyness, protetiveness, fighting, fierce loyalty, passion and oral crunching. Always the question, what are they going to do next?

Often times when i hear about PETA or see their images an old REO Speedwagon song plays across my mind, Tough Guys. For years thought the words where, “She does it like the tough guys”, and later came to realize the words are “She does not like the tough guys” either one seem to fit PETA for me.

Tough Guys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9rWSxlilUI

Tidbits as usual i got into a ramble, but thanks for sharing your question about PETA and Greenpeace and my association of the two are abit skewed and warped in a twisted sister sort of way. But what i really want to say is hope you have a great Holiday Season with lots of joy, peace and good fun.

And Happy Holidays to One and All. . . .

Your gentle spirit shines through as always in your remarks, and I commend your deep committment to non-violence.

Still, I find a sliver of separation when you compare PETA to Green Peace. Green Peace seeks to prevent the extinction of rare species by directly interfering in the killing of that species. PETA, it seems to me, seeks only to shock for the sake of shock itself. The general public appears to have a very different perception of the two, one respected the other distasteful.

If I am incorrect, or if my views on this are simply a product of social indoctrination, I stand open to correction and education.

Then they kill domestic animals by the billion and eat them. This in turn kills people by the million, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative – and fatal – - health conditions like heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, and cancer.

So then humans spend billions of dollars torturing and killing millions of more animals to look for cures for these diseases.

Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals.

Meanwhile, few people recognize the absurdity of humans, who kill so easily and violently, and once a year send out cards praying for “Peace on Earth.”

~Revised Preface to Old MacDonald’s Factory Farm by C. David Coates~

Check out this informative and inspiring video on why people choose vegan: http://veganvideo.org/

Also see Gary Yourofsky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bagt5L9wXGo

I do think, however, that calling people “murderers” because they consume meat is offensive and unhelpful.

PETA uses film that was shot in other countries, they lie and say the film was shot in the USA. They lie about everything. I want to be in a world with animals myself. No my spiritual path is why I'm not a meat eater. Twenty five years on this path. What are the masses going to eat?

tidbits

Not to mention why does no one ever think about all the poor mudered plants?

And you could hit someone and say it was not meant as an assault but as a “physical goad”, how do you think that will play? Yeah thought so.

I suspect that it is only force of habit and laziness (unconsciousness) that keeps me eating flesh. I am slow to change but the path is lit and I an aware of the blinking light down the vegan path.

Irrespective of the subject at hand, I do believe our lifestyle (modern Western post industrial) is unsustainable and mightily disrespective to all nature, human and animal. For me much of it boils down to relationship (to land, to creatures). Try to explain to any kid why their pet goat has to be put to slaughter. Why JoJo the dog has to die. I have too, spoken to small farmers, who do slaughter but sometimes even cry for doing so, for the loss of a creature they have named and loved. I remember to in Don Juan's books, the gratitude expressed and the pain acknowledged when a vegetable was pulled from the earth to serve the purpose of feeding us. In other words all living things including plants suffer, the difference is the consciousness and gratefulness involved in how much, how many, how done, etc.

I would be curious to hear the authors views vis-a-vis the Native American view. There was a certain consciousness and gratitude in their killing. The respect and thankfulness it takes to take another's life so as to feed your own. It would have been a good interview question.

Breathing techniques ……..to relieve the stress…….relax the mind. It has been difficult get my soul to take its place on the cushion, to be quiet, and to listen ………….it has been very rewarding and a gift that keeps on giving. Far away from TMV , Dr E, I'll meet you there.

It is a rash & bold statement which is, to say the least, provocative in the extreme. Somehow, though, I can see the directions of his thought. If it is murder to kill a human, no matter how debilitated or unable to speak in his/her own defense then why is it not murder to kill anything else which shares this life with us?

My intention is to try to get people to think outside of their “comfort zones” & try to see the world in a different way. As a certain German physicist once suggested, the thinking which got us into a problem will not get us out. Meat consumption is helping drive global climate problems, undercutting our attempts to feed the poorer members of our own tribe, & generally costing us billions in health costs. It is only by rethinking our relationship with other tribes that we will have a chance to solve some of these problems.

I will not say “don't eat meat! Give it up! Go vegetarian right now!” That would be hypocritical of me & unworthy of you and your readers. All I ask is that people not blissfully trash-talk opinions with which they differ, and actually use the brains & the hearts with which we were endowed by an all-loving Creator.

To reiterate, the “murder” statement was not meant as an insult, it was meant as a mental goad.

You can accept or reject that as you will. Thank you for hearing me out.

If in doubt about TMV rules for commenters, or you havent read them lately and want to, please go to Top of Home Page: there are there, and they are good boundaries for keeping discussions passionate and civil… which most of our commenters do… nearly all the time.

And by the way, its the holiday season: I hope you all have kind, funny, safe and meaningful moments in this time of so many different kinds of celebrations and good will.

thanks,
dr.e

If they could talk I wouldn't eat them.

FT was out of line and offensive in his remarks but you know what being called a murderer is even more offensive to me and certainly does not encourage conversation..

Thanks for this article Dr. E. and Elijah. . .To each their own is how i live it, but in truth so much could be written about the repercussions and negative effects to the environment, the body, the heart, and soul with the current carnivore practices. The truth is; Vegan, Vegetarian, or even reducing the intake of meat products is good for our bodies, good for the environment, good for our hearts, good for our souls, and good for all sentient beings. Truly when one is able to make the decision to reduce the intake of meat it is a win/win for every direction.

Cool to hear about the sudarshan kriya meditation Dr. E. I do Nidra Yoga each morning and it is one that anyone can do without having to turn the body into a pretzel, the benefits have been amazing.

As far as PETA, for me they are similar to Green Peace. Shock activism like shock jocks are not my energetic but can appreciate their passion.

I do not wish for such animals as were mentioned above to be my pets any more than I might want to bring in a deer or a skunk from the wild, for one thing I don't have the room. If, however, I did have the space to take in a cow or a sheep as a pet its life would likely be far better than when it's ultimate fate is food for people who care not from whence it came or what it may have suffered.

I suspect that, if we weren't eating them, robbing them of habitat, transporting them into different environments & continents & otherwise corralling & abusing them, there would have been possibly just about as many as their own habitats would sustainably support. More is not necessarily better. I won't say that their lives would be better or worse, that's a personal judgment call, but their lives would have been their own. You would not be participating in what would be, at its most polite, called murder if said creatures could talk. That they cannot speak for themselves just means that it is our duty to protect them.

However, if you still want to go out now & eat that hamburger, then give thanks for the life that was taken so that you could increase your cholesterol intake. That is also a personal judgment call & one I am not proposing to make for you.

I'm saying there would have been far fewer that have lived!

We know you want them as cute little pets to play with, but really they don't want you and many would eat you if they could. So go sit on an egg…..after you learn to read and understand english.

I agree that PETA's tactics are a problem, and not just the denegration of women. I also disagree with Ms. Wosko that controversial tactics are used to advance discussion. Seems to me that many are so offended by the tactics that they refuse to engage in the discussion, instead taking the position “If those offensive people at PETA take that position, I'm against it.” Knee jerk reaction to offensive conduct…no discussion necessary. I takes a lot, my view, to want to engage in discussion with folks who begin by being ofensive.

The other side is that there are legitimate issues that need to be discussed and addressed like factory farming, artificially altering animals, issues about dairy factories and general insensitivity to suffering and death. My question is whether PETA advances that discussion or impedes it. Maybe PETA, with its outrageous tactics has served its purpose and it is time to move on to a more rational, and less stunt-based conversation of real issues.

Other than the PETA issue I thought Ms. Wosko did an admirable job of defending what is still a minority view.