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	<title>Comments on: The Immigration Issue</title>
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		<title>By: Max King</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/5560/the-immigration-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-495</link>
		<dc:creator>Max King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 04:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/2006/03/25/uncategorized/the-immigration-issue/#comment-495</guid>
		<description>IMMIGRATION NATION

       No, we will not be sending 11 million illegal immigrants back to their homeland. But it is time we stopped the constant flow of illegal immigrants across our borders. Is it fair to grant amnesty to millions of immigrants that have been living and working in this country for years, while others that await legal immigration status and citizenship wait in line? No, it is not. Is it a good move to offer these 11 million illegal immigrants citizenship? No, it is not. It will only entice others to cross our borders illegally in pursuit of U. S. citizenship.

       So what are the â€˜fairâ€™ solutions? First, we have to evaluate our current situation. Thousands of immigrants cross our borders to work and make a living because it is not possible to do so in their own countries. In many case these countries have ample resources to provide for their citizens. Greed, corruption and mismanagement prevent this. Our primary approach has to be to improve conditions and opportunities for the people of these countries. Thousands come here to seek work and in most cases are very hard workers that are willing to do jobs that other Americans are not. But thousands of others come here only to take advantage of our graciousness. They join gangs, are unemployed, deal drugs, commit burglaries, violent crimes and homicide. These are not the immigrants we want entering our borders.
       
       Our commitment has to be to pressure the governments of these countries to improve conditions for workers in their countries so that they have jobs and are able to support their families. Skilled workers and professionals living in the United States, which were once also illegal immigrants, have to play a crucial role in helping these countries and in developing the economies to support their citizens. We must understand that the major problem is not in America, but in the countries the immigrants come from. America must not be seen as their only hope. 

       The drastic increase in illegal immigration is a recent development of the last twenty-five years. Twenty-five years ago if you said â€˜immigration policeâ€™ to a crowd of illegal immigrants there was fear. Today they do not fear consequences because few consequences are enforced. Two decades ago, ranchers and farmers, construction contractors, landscapers and restaurant and hospitality owners and managers realized they could increase their profits by hiring illegal immigrant labor. In many cases they did not pay Federal or State employment taxes on their employees, saving them thousands of dollars every year.  Employers did not have to concern themselves with safety issues because they knew if one of their employees was hurt on the job they would never file a lawsuit against the employer. The laborers were illegal and therefore fear prevented them from pursuing any litigation. And accordingly, they would not file Workmanâ€™s Compensation or require unemployment compensation. 
       
       Employers did not have to offer illegal immigrant laborers health insurance or vacation time or any fringe benefits. Illegal immigrant workers worked harder under tougher conditions without complaining because they were afraid to lose their jobs and be forced to return to their homeland. And of course, employers did not have to deal with Unions. All of these factors gave these specific business industries a windfall. They made lucrative profits while legitimate businesses that were not taking short cuts and circumventing American laws struggled through taxes and mounting expenses. Look around today and you will easily see that the businesses that are thriving are the ones that hire and employ illegal undocumented workers. As a legitimate business owner that does not employ undocumented workers, I find this to be criminal and completely unfair for those businesses that follow the letter of the law.
       
       But the bottom line, as always is money. In Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California for three decades now, politicians and government administrators were willing to look the other way because their constituents and their pockets were being lucratively rewarded. They all felt that as long as they were making money, no one was getting hurt. But the facts are very different. Although as consumers we may see some economic savings at our restaurants or landscaping service or in a new home purchase, in the long run the costs outnumber the savings. We have also seen a dramatic increase in our taxes, all of our taxes; property taxes, sales taxes, school taxes, city, county and state taxes. The reason is quite simple. The growth from the influx of immigrants into our work force and our communities has created more stress on our resources. We require more homes and apartments to be built, more roads, more schools, more utilities, more law enforcement and jails and ultimately everything actually costs us more. It also creates more crime because often they think they can do things that they might get away with in their own country. Other times they find that dealing drugs or stealing cars for parts or other criminal activities can be more lucrative than working. And sometimes when they lose their jobs, this is the only choice they have so they do not have to return to their impoverished homeland. And despite what some may think or say, they very often take jobs away from Americans. They force contractors that do not employ illegal immigrants out of business because they cannot compete with companies that do.
       
       California is a good example of the economic stress the immigrant population has created. The state and many of the local communities are in constant economic trouble because of the taxing burdens on their infrastructure and services. Illegal immigrants rarely pay property taxes because often times they rent and crowd several families in a single bedroom or dwelling. Employers do not take taxes out of their checks and many times when they do, the money never makes it to the Federal government. It ends up in the pockets of the employers. I have seen this often enough to know that it is a fact and it is also very common. Much of the money illegal immigrants make does not flow back into the states economy. It is sent back to their home country to feed their families. They rarely pay school taxes yet our laws require their children be educated in public schools.
And today, public schools that have large immigrant populations with children that have difficulty speaking the language are required to achieve the same standard test scores as schools with a student population of English speaking and native born students. This is not fair to teachers and administrators that work in these high risk schools. There are no incentives to work there. In fact it is the opposite. If their test scores do not meet the standard scores, their funds are reduced and their evaluations are also effected. Illegal immigrant children that do not speak the English language should not be in the same classroom as English speaking students. The progress of the other students is affected because teachers have to slow down their curriculum to let the non-fluent English speaking students catch up. This is wrong and is unfair to all of the students.

       An illegal immigrant should not have the same rights as citizens of the country. This is also wrong and sends the wrong message to those wanting to enter our country illegally. Many police forces in cities in the Southwestern United States cannot turn in illegal immigrants because they are restricted by the laws of their own cities. Illegal immigrants, who commit a crime are sentenced, incarcerated and then released, free to return to society and commit another crime. Every person that crosses the United States border should be fingerprinted and required to provide a DNA sample. So that any illegal immigrant that commits a serious crime while in this country illegally can serve their time and then be returned to their country and not be allowed to enter the United States again. This will open an opportunity for others who will follow our laws.
       
       Employers must be held accountable. We must have a legitimate work-pass program for these undocumented workers. This does not mean citizenship. It means that they have been fingerprinted and have provided a sample of their DNA so that we can keep track of them while they are within our borders. If they are here in this country and they are not citizens or do not have visas, then they must have a work-pass that is authorized by an employer. The employer must ultimately take responsibility for the employee. If they lose their job while in this country on a work pass, then they should be required to file their status with an immigration office and be given a limited time of a few weeks to find other employment and another employer to authorize them or they would be required to return to their country of origin to provide an open opportunity for another worker.
       
       Illegal immigrants that have been in this country for years now should be required to register with the immigration department and be given temporary residence if they are elderly and living with someone that has citizenship or a work-pass. Those that are not elderly should also register and be given a temporary work-pass authorized by an employer and be allowed to remain in the country as long as they are dutifully employed and do not commit a serious crime. Anyone with a work-pass will pay taxes like all others in this country, including Federal, State and Local taxes. Employers should be required to also pay employee taxes on their laborers and be assessed much more serious penalties if they hire undocumented workers or do not pay taxes on work-pass laborers. A work-pass should be a card that identifies the owner of the card and has fingerprint and coded cross referenced information to verify the identity and the legitimacy of the card and the card holder. This is not amnesty that leads to citizenship. It is a residency that gives them legitimacy in our country.
       
       Crossing the border without a work-pass or visa should be a felony offense and punishable by jail time and after serving the jail time extradited back to their country of origin. The money we spend on an efficient and viable work-pass program and the money we spend on protecting our borders and the jails for those that do not follow the laws, will not only provide us a long term benefit but it will also provide us a security that we do not currently have. It is no longer Mexican migrant workers crossing our borders to pick fruit or cotton. It is now immigrants from all of Central America, South America and other countries around the world that cross our Southern border. And although many come for honest work, there are now many others that come strictly for the lucrative crime business.
       
       These are fair proposals for everyone. This will give those that have lived here for years an opportunity to be â€˜legalâ€™ and therefore live safer and without fear of incarceration or deportation. It will give others that are now working here illegally an opportunity to work legally and therefore making their work environment safer and give them their deserved rights as employees under all of our other employment laws. It will level the playing field for those businesses that continue to do legitimate business with legal employees. It will provide a deterrent and penalties to those that want to cross our border illegally. And it will give opportunity to those in the other countries that want to work in America, but it will give them a legal opportunity. We must also continue to find ways to provide better living conditions and jobs for those that live in these other countries. Once workers are trained and educated in this country we can provide incentives and support for them to return to their country and improve the conditions in their own homeland.
       
       This is a fair proposal for all parties, but it will not be easy. Money and power have a way of taking care of their own. Right now there are very powerful people that are making large sums of money by taking advantage of the fears of this modern slave trade in illegal immigrant workers. Drug dealers, criminals, corporations and small business are all taking advantage of the fear and desperation of these illegal immigrant workers. We must rectify and justify this situation immediately despite the powers that will attempt to defeat or delay critical action for their own rewards. 
       
       I am a first generation immigrant and a United States citizen. My wife is a second generation immigrant and her parents came here as migrant workers to eventually become citizens. We both feel it is important for fairness to American citizens who work hard and whose forefathers worked and died for this country and for what they have. But we also believe we can be fair to hard workers who are only trying to provide a better life for their families and at the same time strike against the criminals and tyrants who have been taking advantage of all of us for all these years.
       
       Finally, I also feel that if you come to this country you should respect the laws of this country and those that have lived here for generations. To be an American you must be ready to acclimate and accept American culture for what it is and for what its history represents and continues to achieve. You have to be willing to lay down your life or make the sacrifices necessary to be American. You must not expect Americans to adapt their country to the culture and customs of your country. You must be willing to stand up and defend America even if it means standing up against your own country of your birth. I feel (and this is my personal opinion) that if you are not willing to do these things, then you really donâ€™t belong here. You should return to the country you came from and mold your own country to be what you think it should be. Leave the privilege and responsibility of living in America and being an American to someone who will truly appreciate it for the majesty and glory it is.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMMIGRATION NATION</p>
<p>       No, we will not be sending 11 million illegal immigrants back to their homeland. But it is time we stopped the constant flow of illegal immigrants across our borders. Is it fair to grant amnesty to millions of immigrants that have been living and working in this country for years, while others that await legal immigration status and citizenship wait in line? No, it is not. Is it a good move to offer these 11 million illegal immigrants citizenship? No, it is not. It will only entice others to cross our borders illegally in pursuit of U. S. citizenship.</p>
<p>       So what are the â€˜fairâ€™ solutions? First, we have to evaluate our current situation. Thousands of immigrants cross our borders to work and make a living because it is not possible to do so in their own countries. In many case these countries have ample resources to provide for their citizens. Greed, corruption and mismanagement prevent this. Our primary approach has to be to improve conditions and opportunities for the people of these countries. Thousands come here to seek work and in most cases are very hard workers that are willing to do jobs that other Americans are not. But thousands of others come here only to take advantage of our graciousness. They join gangs, are unemployed, deal drugs, commit burglaries, violent crimes and homicide. These are not the immigrants we want entering our borders.</p>
<p>       Our commitment has to be to pressure the governments of these countries to improve conditions for workers in their countries so that they have jobs and are able to support their families. Skilled workers and professionals living in the United States, which were once also illegal immigrants, have to play a crucial role in helping these countries and in developing the economies to support their citizens. We must understand that the major problem is not in America, but in the countries the immigrants come from. America must not be seen as their only hope. </p>
<p>       The drastic increase in illegal immigration is a recent development of the last twenty-five years. Twenty-five years ago if you said â€˜immigration policeâ€™ to a crowd of illegal immigrants there was fear. Today they do not fear consequences because few consequences are enforced. Two decades ago, ranchers and farmers, construction contractors, landscapers and restaurant and hospitality owners and managers realized they could increase their profits by hiring illegal immigrant labor. In many cases they did not pay Federal or State employment taxes on their employees, saving them thousands of dollars every year.  Employers did not have to concern themselves with safety issues because they knew if one of their employees was hurt on the job they would never file a lawsuit against the employer. The laborers were illegal and therefore fear prevented them from pursuing any litigation. And accordingly, they would not file Workmanâ€™s Compensation or require unemployment compensation. </p>
<p>       Employers did not have to offer illegal immigrant laborers health insurance or vacation time or any fringe benefits. Illegal immigrant workers worked harder under tougher conditions without complaining because they were afraid to lose their jobs and be forced to return to their homeland. And of course, employers did not have to deal with Unions. All of these factors gave these specific business industries a windfall. They made lucrative profits while legitimate businesses that were not taking short cuts and circumventing American laws struggled through taxes and mounting expenses. Look around today and you will easily see that the businesses that are thriving are the ones that hire and employ illegal undocumented workers. As a legitimate business owner that does not employ undocumented workers, I find this to be criminal and completely unfair for those businesses that follow the letter of the law.</p>
<p>       But the bottom line, as always is money. In Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California for three decades now, politicians and government administrators were willing to look the other way because their constituents and their pockets were being lucratively rewarded. They all felt that as long as they were making money, no one was getting hurt. But the facts are very different. Although as consumers we may see some economic savings at our restaurants or landscaping service or in a new home purchase, in the long run the costs outnumber the savings. We have also seen a dramatic increase in our taxes, all of our taxes; property taxes, sales taxes, school taxes, city, county and state taxes. The reason is quite simple. The growth from the influx of immigrants into our work force and our communities has created more stress on our resources. We require more homes and apartments to be built, more roads, more schools, more utilities, more law enforcement and jails and ultimately everything actually costs us more. It also creates more crime because often they think they can do things that they might get away with in their own country. Other times they find that dealing drugs or stealing cars for parts or other criminal activities can be more lucrative than working. And sometimes when they lose their jobs, this is the only choice they have so they do not have to return to their impoverished homeland. And despite what some may think or say, they very often take jobs away from Americans. They force contractors that do not employ illegal immigrants out of business because they cannot compete with companies that do.</p>
<p>       California is a good example of the economic stress the immigrant population has created. The state and many of the local communities are in constant economic trouble because of the taxing burdens on their infrastructure and services. Illegal immigrants rarely pay property taxes because often times they rent and crowd several families in a single bedroom or dwelling. Employers do not take taxes out of their checks and many times when they do, the money never makes it to the Federal government. It ends up in the pockets of the employers. I have seen this often enough to know that it is a fact and it is also very common. Much of the money illegal immigrants make does not flow back into the states economy. It is sent back to their home country to feed their families. They rarely pay school taxes yet our laws require their children be educated in public schools.<br />
And today, public schools that have large immigrant populations with children that have difficulty speaking the language are required to achieve the same standard test scores as schools with a student population of English speaking and native born students. This is not fair to teachers and administrators that work in these high risk schools. There are no incentives to work there. In fact it is the opposite. If their test scores do not meet the standard scores, their funds are reduced and their evaluations are also effected. Illegal immigrant children that do not speak the English language should not be in the same classroom as English speaking students. The progress of the other students is affected because teachers have to slow down their curriculum to let the non-fluent English speaking students catch up. This is wrong and is unfair to all of the students.</p>
<p>       An illegal immigrant should not have the same rights as citizens of the country. This is also wrong and sends the wrong message to those wanting to enter our country illegally. Many police forces in cities in the Southwestern United States cannot turn in illegal immigrants because they are restricted by the laws of their own cities. Illegal immigrants, who commit a crime are sentenced, incarcerated and then released, free to return to society and commit another crime. Every person that crosses the United States border should be fingerprinted and required to provide a DNA sample. So that any illegal immigrant that commits a serious crime while in this country illegally can serve their time and then be returned to their country and not be allowed to enter the United States again. This will open an opportunity for others who will follow our laws.</p>
<p>       Employers must be held accountable. We must have a legitimate work-pass program for these undocumented workers. This does not mean citizenship. It means that they have been fingerprinted and have provided a sample of their DNA so that we can keep track of them while they are within our borders. If they are here in this country and they are not citizens or do not have visas, then they must have a work-pass that is authorized by an employer. The employer must ultimately take responsibility for the employee. If they lose their job while in this country on a work pass, then they should be required to file their status with an immigration office and be given a limited time of a few weeks to find other employment and another employer to authorize them or they would be required to return to their country of origin to provide an open opportunity for another worker.</p>
<p>       Illegal immigrants that have been in this country for years now should be required to register with the immigration department and be given temporary residence if they are elderly and living with someone that has citizenship or a work-pass. Those that are not elderly should also register and be given a temporary work-pass authorized by an employer and be allowed to remain in the country as long as they are dutifully employed and do not commit a serious crime. Anyone with a work-pass will pay taxes like all others in this country, including Federal, State and Local taxes. Employers should be required to also pay employee taxes on their laborers and be assessed much more serious penalties if they hire undocumented workers or do not pay taxes on work-pass laborers. A work-pass should be a card that identifies the owner of the card and has fingerprint and coded cross referenced information to verify the identity and the legitimacy of the card and the card holder. This is not amnesty that leads to citizenship. It is a residency that gives them legitimacy in our country.</p>
<p>       Crossing the border without a work-pass or visa should be a felony offense and punishable by jail time and after serving the jail time extradited back to their country of origin. The money we spend on an efficient and viable work-pass program and the money we spend on protecting our borders and the jails for those that do not follow the laws, will not only provide us a long term benefit but it will also provide us a security that we do not currently have. It is no longer Mexican migrant workers crossing our borders to pick fruit or cotton. It is now immigrants from all of Central America, South America and other countries around the world that cross our Southern border. And although many come for honest work, there are now many others that come strictly for the lucrative crime business.</p>
<p>       These are fair proposals for everyone. This will give those that have lived here for years an opportunity to be â€˜legalâ€™ and therefore live safer and without fear of incarceration or deportation. It will give others that are now working here illegally an opportunity to work legally and therefore making their work environment safer and give them their deserved rights as employees under all of our other employment laws. It will level the playing field for those businesses that continue to do legitimate business with legal employees. It will provide a deterrent and penalties to those that want to cross our border illegally. And it will give opportunity to those in the other countries that want to work in America, but it will give them a legal opportunity. We must also continue to find ways to provide better living conditions and jobs for those that live in these other countries. Once workers are trained and educated in this country we can provide incentives and support for them to return to their country and improve the conditions in their own homeland.</p>
<p>       This is a fair proposal for all parties, but it will not be easy. Money and power have a way of taking care of their own. Right now there are very powerful people that are making large sums of money by taking advantage of the fears of this modern slave trade in illegal immigrant workers. Drug dealers, criminals, corporations and small business are all taking advantage of the fear and desperation of these illegal immigrant workers. We must rectify and justify this situation immediately despite the powers that will attempt to defeat or delay critical action for their own rewards. </p>
<p>       I am a first generation immigrant and a United States citizen. My wife is a second generation immigrant and her parents came here as migrant workers to eventually become citizens. We both feel it is important for fairness to American citizens who work hard and whose forefathers worked and died for this country and for what they have. But we also believe we can be fair to hard workers who are only trying to provide a better life for their families and at the same time strike against the criminals and tyrants who have been taking advantage of all of us for all these years.</p>
<p>       Finally, I also feel that if you come to this country you should respect the laws of this country and those that have lived here for generations. To be an American you must be ready to acclimate and accept American culture for what it is and for what its history represents and continues to achieve. You have to be willing to lay down your life or make the sacrifices necessary to be American. You must not expect Americans to adapt their country to the culture and customs of your country. You must be willing to stand up and defend America even if it means standing up against your own country of your birth. I feel (and this is my personal opinion) that if you are not willing to do these things, then you really donâ€™t belong here. You should return to the country you came from and mold your own country to be what you think it should be. Leave the privilege and responsibility of living in America and being an American to someone who will truly appreciate it for the majesty and glory it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/5560/the-immigration-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-494</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/2006/03/25/uncategorized/the-immigration-issue/#comment-494</guid>
		<description>Fitzov is right on. It seems like a lot of people are trying to build a straw man. This is not about legal immigration. This is about &lt;b&gt;ILLEGAL&lt;/b&gt; immigration, which does make the issue very simple.

These people are coming here &lt;b&gt;ILLEGALLY&lt;/b&gt;. Because of this, among other issues, &lt;b&gt;people who are trying to come here legally are being forced to wait longer than they should have to in order to make room for those coming here illegally&lt;/b&gt;. What is right about this and what is wrong in saying that those who are here &lt;b&gt;ILLEGALLY&lt;/b&gt; should not be given favoritism over those who are trying to get here legally?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fitzov is right on. It seems like a lot of people are trying to build a straw man. This is not about legal immigration. This is about <b>ILLEGAL</b> immigration, which does make the issue very simple.</p>
<p>These people are coming here <b>ILLEGALLY</b>. Because of this, among other issues, <b>people who are trying to come here legally are being forced to wait longer than they should have to in order to make room for those coming here illegally</b>. What is right about this and what is wrong in saying that those who are here <b>ILLEGALLY</b> should not be given favoritism over those who are trying to get here legally?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Fitzov</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/5560/the-immigration-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-493</link>
		<dc:creator>Fitzov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/2006/03/25/uncategorized/the-immigration-issue/#comment-493</guid>
		<description>That article and the contemporary discussion consist of red herrings and straw men. The bill only affects people that are here illegally. These people did not go to the US Consulate to get a visa. They do not have a right to be here. They do not have a right to get a job here. The  author tries to make a comparison with the immigrants who built the country. Well, those immigrants came here legally. They waited in long lines and had their names changed. What sickens me is that people don&#039;t see why this is such a political bubble--money. There are a few very large companies that make buku bucks by exploiting undocumented workers. They don&#039;t have to pay them what is already a ridiculous minimum wage. They don&#039;t have to pay any workers compensation insurance for these employees. Meanwhile, Americans are on unemployment. Don&#039;t give me that crap about how we don&#039;t want to do the work--some of us wouldn&#039;t mind, but not for what these companies are willing to pay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That article and the contemporary discussion consist of red herrings and straw men. The bill only affects people that are here illegally. These people did not go to the US Consulate to get a visa. They do not have a right to be here. They do not have a right to get a job here. The  author tries to make a comparison with the immigrants who built the country. Well, those immigrants came here legally. They waited in long lines and had their names changed. What sickens me is that people don&#8217;t see why this is such a political bubble&#8211;money. There are a few very large companies that make buku bucks by exploiting undocumented workers. They don&#8217;t have to pay them what is already a ridiculous minimum wage. They don&#8217;t have to pay any workers compensation insurance for these employees. Meanwhile, Americans are on unemployment. Don&#8217;t give me that crap about how we don&#8217;t want to do the work&#8211;some of us wouldn&#8217;t mind, but not for what these companies are willing to pay.</p>
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