Comments on: Hillary’s Bombshell: Obama Administration Subtly Launches Dramatic Policy Change on Peace Process (Guest Voice)

By: Vajor

Vajor — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:01:03 +0000

You shouldn't negotiate with someone who wants to kill you (and their own). It is very simple. Let the Palestinians get their house in order, clean up their act, FIRST!

By: PJBFan

PJBFan — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:22:10 +0000

Considering that Israel under Rabin offered 98% of what the Palestinians demanded, and the Palestinian government rejected it because it still wasn't enough, I find little compassion for the Palestinians, who are mostly of Jordanian and Syrian descent anyways. If anything, my suggestion is to let Israel keep the WB, Gaza, and the Golan heights, give only those Palestinians who can actually trace their descent to British Palestine Israeli Citizenship, and send the rest back to Jordan, Syria and their other true motherlands. Keep Jerusalem totally under Israeli control. That's my view anyways.

By: dduck12

dduck12 — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:35:35 +0000

I finally thought of a topic where they (you know who you are) can't insert B into the debate:
Tomatoes nowadays are not as sweet as they used to be.

By: TheMagicalSkyFather

TheMagicalSkyFather — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:41:02 +0000

Honestly who is gonna forget doofus? Do not get me wrong I as well will pull his scary legacy out of the closet for the 2012 election if I feel I need to but until then what is really the point? We all remember and those that act like they do not are partisan hacks who disagree with your take on him anyway so it is wasted key strokes. When he is the best comparison by all means use him, I will, but the habit of constantly bringing him up is reminding me of 8 yrs of debating Clinton when Bush did or said anything and that is the best case scenario for bringing up Bush all of the time. We spent 8 yrs being attacked by sore winners bringing up Clinton every time Bush made a mis-step, I just think it would be nice to play the grown up while no true threat exists of a GOP resurgence.

By: kathykattenburg

kathykattenburg — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:52:15 +0000

In that case, shouldn't Israel offer them exactly what true justice would require: a Palestinian state, drawn on the 1967 border, with contiguous land, the apartheid wall torn down, the settlements dismantled, Jerusalem an international city not controlled by Israel or the Palestinians, and the right to return to the homes they were forcibly evicted from?

If it's so certain Palestinian leaders will turn this down, why not make a serious offer? No need to worry; they're going to turn it down anyway, right?

By: dduck12

dduck12 — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:50:03 +0000

“Make people forget about Bush ASAP” And, C also.

By: kathykattenburg

kathykattenburg — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:45:00 +0000

Thank you, shannon!

By: shannonlee

shannonlee — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:50:21 +0000

Or maybe this is a new right wing tactic.

Make people forget about Bush ASAP.

By: shannonlee

shannonlee — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:49:21 +0000

Great reply.

By: TheMagicalSkyFather

TheMagicalSkyFather — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:07:04 +0000

My comment was actually my first and therefore overly nice journey into the “stop bringing up Bush” struggle. I generally start by trying to find the middle by explaining both sides points but in reality I am trying to get rid of it as well. Its utter silliness when we have so many other Admins to use as examples. This is also why when comparing Bush to Obama I am trying to call Bush doofus so that no one thinks that I think he was a normal president. I think he was even unfairly maligned like Hoover and Carter before him(the most extreme examples I can find and Bush fits in with them) but it gets us nowhere but bickering to continue to bring up Bush much like conservatives bringing up Clinton for 9 years has not really resolved anything. Sorry for the explanation but I did not want you to think that I did not feel your pain on that one I do I just escalate slowly.

By: dduck12

dduck12 — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:47:01 +0000

I'm really joshing about the overuse of the B name, from a debating standpoint. It seems like a knee-jerk reaction. When in doubt whip it out. I was trying to think of a topic that would be impossible to invoke the B name. Could not think of one.

By: TheMagicalSkyFather

TheMagicalSkyFather — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:37:43 +0000

In FT's defense it was ignored for 8 years but I do think picking on Bush is unfair considering many of the steps now being taken as well as the difference in tone toward both sides is a very new thing so the same could be said for all presidents since Nixon. Clinton did little more than the standard US response which is and always has been “whatever Israel said”, I can't say that has changed but it seems to have and the rhetoric is also now night and day different but no reason to single out Bush I agree. It will be a long while before we know if it is at all successful considering both sides have a bad habit of acting like they do not actually want to resolve this but we are at least trying new things, not from Bush but from prior admins period though mostly in tone which is actually very important to perceptions.

By: dduck12

dduck12 — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:03:04 +0000

Can't have a thread without Bush, can we?

By: Father_Time

Father_Time — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:06:21 +0000

Still more than Bush ever did. Which was nothing.

By: spirasol

spirasol — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:45:39 +0000

As best as I can tell the roses on offer smell somewhat morbid. As for tripping over their own feet and falling deeper and deeper into the endless well, the talent of the IDF are self evident.

Hell we couldn't even do Katrina, what would we look like if we were under constant chronic occupation?

By: vfriedman

vfriedman — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:09:18 +0000

Wake up and smell the roses. The P. never fail to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

By: vfriedman

vfriedman — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:06:54 +0000

Dear Ms. Kattenburg: You are right, it is an interesting piece. And you seem to miss the Palestinian situation: they (Hamas and PLO) hate each other, can't agree to get along with each other, kill each other and have no intention of working out a deal with Israel. Their actions speak louder than their words.

By: spirasol

spirasol — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:54:36 +0000

….Yes, let us together with Rubin and his ilk, crush the insect known as a Palestinian under our foot. Look their screaming……go back for more…………kill the children, the women, the old men, kill history, bulldoze the truth, kill everyone except our kind, our religion, — Watch out Syria, Lebanon– the Zionist never sleeps and when you do they will take your clothes, your family, and finally your land.

By: kathykattenburg

kathykattenburg — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:49:53 +0000

Wow, Barry Rubin. This is quite an interesting piece, I must say. You have certainly gone the extra mile -- and then some -- to convey your utter contempt for Palestinians and their concerns. It oozes from almost every word.

Having said this, can you perhaps provide any independent support for your astonishing, sweeping generalizations about what Palestinians want and what they would be willing to accept? Because right now you provide none at all -- apart from "I know Palestinians and you don't." Which I can't really take seriously as a grown-up argument.

Also, I'd like to challenge you with a question: Why should anyone take your opinions seriously when you portray one side in a conflict as entirely serious, reasonable, peace-loving, and willing to compromise; and the other side as cartoon caricature villains who should not be taken with the slightest seriousness?

I certainly can't.