Comments on: Jew, Muslim and Christian: It is God Who is Being Murdered – L’Orient Le Jour, Lebanon

By: Almoderate

Almoderate — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:33:23 +0000

“…it's just that their ability to get others to join them despite their own lack of personal gain would be diminished.”

And as I said in my last sentence… Fear is a good motivator. Remind me again how we got into the Iraq War.

By: ThurmanHart

ThurmanHart — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:22:46 +0000

Hmmm...to which atheist leaders do you refer?

Vladamir Lenin
Josef Stalin
Pol Pot
Mao Zedong
Kim Il Sung

I would note that the atheism of these individuals did not lead them to commit atrocities. But neither did it protect anyone against which they turned their attention - and, to directly address the point made above, none of them couched their leadership in terms of religion.

By: ThurmanHart

ThurmanHart — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:12:20 +0000

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
– Steven Weinberg

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Good people do bad things all the time, all it takes is the proper motivation, whatever that happens to be for that individual.

By: dduck12

dduck12 — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:42:54 +0000

The “religion” of those folks is the religion of power. They use any and all means to their ends, atheist or “real” theist.

By: roro80

roro80 — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:50:37 +0000

On second thought, perhaps a better question would be: how does it compare to the track record for theist leaders?

By: roro80

roro80 — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:26:40 +0000

Hmmm…to which atheist leaders do you refer?

By: ProfElwood

ProfElwood — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:29:31 +0000

The track record for Atheist leaders doesn't back that assumption.

By: roro80

roro80 — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:59:01 +0000

“I think it merely takes an excuse that is good enough”

Hey Almoderate — I would agree with your sentiment, but I think dduck12's first comment kind of speaks to the point. It's not that those whose hunger for power and wealth compel them to encourage violence would be diminished were there no religion, it's just that their ability to get others to join them despite their own lack of personal gain would be diminished.

By: dduck12

dduck12 — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:43:57 +0000

Your point is well taken. The wolf often takes the cloak of religion to hide his evil intent.

By: Almoderate

Almoderate — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:30:04 +0000

Regarding the Weinberg quote… I think it merely takes an excuse that is good enough. Religion merely provides a convenient and easy to use one. Those who start a war have their own motives– money, power, revenge, etc. Look into the heart of every war ever started where we're told from a young age that there were noble causes (with the possible exception of SOME revolutions), and you will find not-so-noble beginnings. Even in cases where the lower and middle classes overthrow their leaders, you will find that they are often lead by someone who is motivated by putting himself into power.

Religion isn't needed to hurt other people. It's just currently the easiest excuse that can be used to get other people to go along with it. Without religion, you can bet that something else would be used to manipulate the masses. Fear comes to mind.

By: dduck12

dduck12 — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:42:02 +0000

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
— Steven Weinberg