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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;The Cost of Dying:&#8217; False Choices or the Future of American Healthcare (Guest Voice)</title>
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	<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/</link>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233567</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233567</guid>
		<description>&quot;ultra Reps&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Their path would take the unfortunate to the hospice or home to die (at the individual&#039;s and his or her family and friends, or charity, religious institutions&#039;, etc., own expense).  The ultra-Demmies would not only be gung-ho about euthanasia, but would promote it (the Ad Council and your tax dollars at work), if for no other reason than for some hoped-for guilt reduction (and rationalization of various kinds).  More &quot;moderate&quot; or &quot;centrist&quot; Dems would settle for pro-euthanasia ads and (heavy?) counseling about end-of-life issues (tending to leave the decision still in the hands of the individuals, unlike uber-Dems).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s the horror story as interpreted conventionally.  (Nice movie script were it not that it involves present and future federal government entitlements, including health care.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;ultra Reps&#8221;</p>
<p>Their path would take the unfortunate to the hospice or home to die (at the individual&#39;s and his or her family and friends, or charity, religious institutions&#39;, etc., own expense).  The ultra-Demmies would not only be gung-ho about euthanasia, but would promote it (the Ad Council and your tax dollars at work), if for no other reason than for some hoped-for guilt reduction (and rationalization of various kinds).  More &#8220;moderate&#8221; or &#8220;centrist&#8221; Dems would settle for pro-euthanasia ads and (heavy?) counseling about end-of-life issues (tending to leave the decision still in the hands of the individuals, unlike uber-Dems).</p>
<p>That&#39;s the horror story as interpreted conventionally.  (Nice movie script were it not that it involves present and future federal government entitlements, including health care.)</p>
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		<title>By: dduck12</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233423</link>
		<dc:creator>dduck12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233423</guid>
		<description>I did not want to mention euthanasia in my prior post.  As opposed to a passive act like hospice care or an at home death, it is not passive.  I have no problem with E in concept, but am aware that there could be potential abuses.  And, (whisper), I hope no ultra Reps are listening to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not want to mention euthanasia in my prior post.  As opposed to a passive act like hospice care or an at home death, it is not passive.  I have no problem with E in concept, but am aware that there could be potential abuses.  And, (whisper), I hope no ultra Reps are listening to this.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233393</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233393</guid>
		<description>&quot;hospice and comfort care&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Improved palliative care (including permitting the use of heroin, etc., when pain is extreme) is something long neglected and identified as part of the solution against a slippery slope that can develop with the practice of euthanasia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;hospice and comfort care&#8221;</p>
<p>Improved palliative care (including permitting the use of heroin, etc., when pain is extreme) is something long neglected and identified as part of the solution against a slippery slope that can develop with the practice of euthanasia.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233392</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233392</guid>
		<description>&quot;Pfizer, and Viagra&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t forget the explicit anti-generic Insist On Lipitor ads, too.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve long wanted these ads (including &quot;pester your doctor to allow you to buy X&quot; along with anti-lawsuit standard side-effect warnings) to be banned.  If tobacco ads can be banned at least sometimes, why not these things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Pfizer, and Viagra&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#39;t forget the explicit anti-generic Insist On Lipitor ads, too.</p>
<p>I&#39;ve long wanted these ads (including &#8220;pester your doctor to allow you to buy X&#8221; along with anti-lawsuit standard side-effect warnings) to be banned.  If tobacco ads can be banned at least sometimes, why not these things?</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233391</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233391</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is a hot, hot subject.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Allocation and &quot;futility&quot; are, in fact, stand-alone issues in addition to cost-benefit issues and overall &quot;appropriateness,&quot; not to mention competition for eventually more-scarce resources.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;it is cowardice to put the intellect on standby&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Or to engage in distraction, or react out of defensiveness (and cowardice), by mischaracterizing the serious concerns of those with more intellect and (nobably, too) moral substance (including making the distinction between the dispassionate and factual issues, and wishes and resentment at not receiving instant gratification, or at least much of it this year).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Issues clarified and corrected...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is a hot, hot subject.&#8221;</p>
<p>Allocation and &#8220;futility&#8221; are, in fact, stand-alone issues in addition to cost-benefit issues and overall &#8220;appropriateness,&#8221; not to mention competition for eventually more-scarce resources.</p>
<p>&#8220;it is cowardice to put the intellect on standby&#8221;</p>
<p>Or to engage in distraction, or react out of defensiveness (and cowardice), by mischaracterizing the serious concerns of those with more intellect and (nobably, too) moral substance (including making the distinction between the dispassionate and factual issues, and wishes and resentment at not receiving instant gratification, or at least much of it this year).</p>
<p>Issues clarified and corrected&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Love Working Out? You’ll Love Homeopathy &#124; Alternative Medicine</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233363</link>
		<dc:creator>Love Working Out? You’ll Love Homeopathy &#124; Alternative Medicine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233363</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8216;The Cost of Dying:&#8217; False Choices or the Future of American Healthcare (Guest Voice) (themoderatevoice.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8216;The Cost of Dying:&#8217; False Choices or the Future of American Healthcare (Guest Voice) (themoderatevoice.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233335</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233335</guid>
		<description>Of course there will always be fools who yell about death panels and other associated paranoia, but the truth is that even average, normal Americans (no I&#039;m not channeling any other TMV&#039;ers here) will need to become more informed and  courageous about this subject. I say courageous because it is cowardice to put the intellect on standby and allow the pumping of ungodly resources into prolonging someones life a few weeks at most. Yes, I understand that love is what prompts this, but it is still wrong, wrong, wrong - and no service, respect or love is being shown the patient in following this path. The irony here is that by showing the kind of decency we would all like to be shown, there is also fiscal responsibility. Does it seem odd that the two are not mutually exclusive? In this bizarre culture that is afraid to talk about death it&#039;s a common misconception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course there will always be fools who yell about death panels and other associated paranoia, but the truth is that even average, normal Americans (no I&#39;m not channeling any other TMV&#39;ers here) will need to become more informed and  courageous about this subject. I say courageous because it is cowardice to put the intellect on standby and allow the pumping of ungodly resources into prolonging someones life a few weeks at most. Yes, I understand that love is what prompts this, but it is still wrong, wrong, wrong &#8211; and no service, respect or love is being shown the patient in following this path. The irony here is that by showing the kind of decency we would all like to be shown, there is also fiscal responsibility. Does it seem odd that the two are not mutually exclusive? In this bizarre culture that is afraid to talk about death it&#39;s a common misconception.</p>
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		<title>By: dduck12</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233332</link>
		<dc:creator>dduck12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233332</guid>
		<description>This is a very depressing subject, but  I said my piece above. I just watched the segment on my computer, and the sponsor was Pfizer,  and Viagra. The juxtaposition made me laugh, then I got real serious.  This situation is busting Medicare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very depressing subject, but  I said my piece above. I just watched the segment on my computer, and the sponsor was Pfizer,  and Viagra. The juxtaposition made me laugh, then I got real serious.  This situation is busting Medicare.</p>
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		<title>By: dduck12</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233327</link>
		<dc:creator>dduck12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233327</guid>
		<description>This is a hot, hot subject.  There is a time to live, and a time to die, and it is my belief that quality of life trumps quantity of life.  But let me put my personal opinion in context.  My mother spent her last two weeks of life at Cabrini Hospice, in NYC.  I was so impressed with the Hospice, its personnel and its goal: maximum comfort to patient and family.  I have never regretted the decision, and I want to go that way myself.&lt;br&gt;If you can visit a hospice and then an ICU, then let your final wishes be codified in a Living Will and Health Care Directive. And, do it as soon as possible.&lt;br&gt;I just wish there would be a &quot;Right To Die&quot; bill that would have a central registry of  everyone&#039;s wishes (applicable and legal in all states and jurisdictions) so that extra unnecessary tests and procedures would not be performed and would protect doctors and facilities from any potential law suits.  (Yes, I believe one of the current HCR bills has a provision enabling suits for pain and suffering.) If you are paying your own bills, however, it should be your right to prolong as long as you wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a hot, hot subject.  There is a time to live, and a time to die, and it is my belief that quality of life trumps quantity of life.  But let me put my personal opinion in context.  My mother spent her last two weeks of life at Cabrini Hospice, in NYC.  I was so impressed with the Hospice, its personnel and its goal: maximum comfort to patient and family.  I have never regretted the decision, and I want to go that way myself.<br />If you can visit a hospice and then an ICU, then let your final wishes be codified in a Living Will and Health Care Directive. And, do it as soon as possible.<br />I just wish there would be a &#8220;Right To Die&#8221; bill that would have a central registry of  everyone&#39;s wishes (applicable and legal in all states and jurisdictions) so that extra unnecessary tests and procedures would not be performed and would protect doctors and facilities from any potential law suits.  (Yes, I believe one of the current HCR bills has a provision enabling suits for pain and suffering.) If you are paying your own bills, however, it should be your right to prolong as long as you wish.</p>
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		<title>By: VeratheGun</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/54115/the-cost-of-dying-false-choices-or-the-future-of-american-healthcare-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-233324</link>
		<dc:creator>VeratheGun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=54115#comment-233324</guid>
		<description>The discussion above exactly mirrors the very real patients, conversations and moral dilemmas I see everyday at my hospital.  Folks, it is REAL and it will be the end of us if we cannot get a handle on the amount spent on healthcare, especially end-of-life care, in this country.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;From my personal experience, the core of the problem is that, frankly, most people feel it&#039;s monetarily cost free to pursue any option available to them.  In particular, when one is on Medicare, and has an attitude that they &quot;paid into the system&quot; and thus should be able to demand and receive any medical option, even one that the research does not bear out as effective.  If Medicare patients, or families, were responsible for even 10% of the cost of the care they receive, you would see a lot more cost consciousness.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even if a patient asks to have a DNR/DNI order in their chart, if they become unable to reiterate that wish, family often steps in and changes the order to Full Code, which means we have to do everything we can to resuscitate them, in the event of a code.  I have seen some of the most egregious examples of people who we could allow to die peacefully, be resuscitated, at tremendous pain and suffering, all at the wishes of the family.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Soultions?  As a nation, we need to have a huge push to educate about hospice and comfort care.  I do believe many, many sick people would choose to be made comfortable and pass away in their own home, with family present, rather than in an ICU, with machines alarming and people running around.  We need to educate to prepare patients and family for the inevitable end we will all face, in a compassionate and respectful, yet fiscally responsible manner.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This does mean that we are going to have to deny some people all-you-can-can-consume care.  We have no other choice, or WE are going to be consumed by these costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The discussion above exactly mirrors the very real patients, conversations and moral dilemmas I see everyday at my hospital.  Folks, it is REAL and it will be the end of us if we cannot get a handle on the amount spent on healthcare, especially end-of-life care, in this country.  </p>
<p>From my personal experience, the core of the problem is that, frankly, most people feel it&#39;s monetarily cost free to pursue any option available to them.  In particular, when one is on Medicare, and has an attitude that they &#8220;paid into the system&#8221; and thus should be able to demand and receive any medical option, even one that the research does not bear out as effective.  If Medicare patients, or families, were responsible for even 10% of the cost of the care they receive, you would see a lot more cost consciousness.</p>
<p>Even if a patient asks to have a DNR/DNI order in their chart, if they become unable to reiterate that wish, family often steps in and changes the order to Full Code, which means we have to do everything we can to resuscitate them, in the event of a code.  I have seen some of the most egregious examples of people who we could allow to die peacefully, be resuscitated, at tremendous pain and suffering, all at the wishes of the family.</p>
<p>Soultions?  As a nation, we need to have a huge push to educate about hospice and comfort care.  I do believe many, many sick people would choose to be made comfortable and pass away in their own home, with family present, rather than in an ICU, with machines alarming and people running around.  We need to educate to prepare patients and family for the inevitable end we will all face, in a compassionate and respectful, yet fiscally responsible manner.</p>
<p>This does mean that we are going to have to deny some people all-you-can-can-consume care.  We have no other choice, or WE are going to be consumed by these costs.</p>
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