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	<title>Comments on: Fox News Management Gets Serious About Quality Control</title>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233557</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 06:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233557</guid>
		<description>Rudi, I already satisfied any reasonable person&#039;s wishes and much more, in posting what I had to say definitively (much to say, definitively) about &quot;global warming,&quot; on the following thread:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;So Can Anyone Actually Do Anything About Global Warming?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I also recommend as a follow-up, you also look at what I wrote on the following thread, too:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Global Warming is Dead!  Long Live Global Warming!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rudi, I already satisfied any reasonable person&#39;s wishes and much more, in posting what I had to say definitively (much to say, definitively) about &#8220;global warming,&#8221; on the following thread:</p>
<p>&#8220;So Can Anyone Actually Do Anything About Global Warming?&#8221;</p>
<p>I also recommend as a follow-up, you also look at what I wrote on the following thread, too:</p>
<p>&#8220;Global Warming is Dead!  Long Live Global Warming!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233428</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233428</guid>
		<description>DLS Many scientists, with brilliant minds, are just as petty and sniping as the average Palinite. But the vast majority(95%) of scientists accept AGW. The evidence is there, a few outliers like Antarctic ice can be explained by the ozone hole.&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.skepticalscience.com/Physical-realities-of-global-warming.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.skepticalscience.com/Physical-realit...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now we find that Antartica is losing ice. Will the skeptics report this?&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.skepticalscience.com/East-Antarctica-is-now-losing-ice.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.skepticalscience.com/East-Antarctica...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DLS Many scientists, with brilliant minds, are just as petty and sniping as the average Palinite. But the vast majority(95%) of scientists accept AGW. The evidence is there, a few outliers like Antarctic ice can be explained by the ozone hole.<br /><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/Physical-realities-of-global-warming.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/Physical-realit.." rel="nofollow">http://www.skepticalscience.com/Physical-realit..</a>.<br />Now we find that Antartica is losing ice. Will the skeptics report this?<br /><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/East-Antarctica-is-now-losing-ice.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/East-Antarctica.." rel="nofollow">http://www.skepticalscience.com/East-Antarctica..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233399</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233399</guid>
		<description>By the way, Rudi, did you look at any of the &quot;climate e-mail&quot; text?  Here is some.  Entertaining.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704779704574553652849094482.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Rudi, did you look at any of the &#8220;climate e-mail&#8221; text?  Here is some.  Entertaining.</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704779704574553652849094482.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487.." rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233396</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233396</guid>
		<description>Rudi: This story is being underreported, and my only question is if it is, is it for general reasons (like-minded politics in the media) or specific reasons (protecting PR prior to the Copenhagen meeting and hopes for something ambitious as well as binding on the USA).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That some people might overreact to what was leaked (i.e., be somewhat alarmist themselves, say), is not a surprise.  Good catch on what you found and reported here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rudi: This story is being underreported, and my only question is if it is, is it for general reasons (like-minded politics in the media) or specific reasons (protecting PR prior to the Copenhagen meeting and hopes for something ambitious as well as binding on the USA).</p>
<p>That some people might overreact to what was leaked (i.e., be somewhat alarmist themselves, say), is not a surprise.  Good catch on what you found and reported here.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233297</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233297</guid>
		<description>&quot;All this memo says is that they don&#039;t want production mistakes, which I believe is the goal of any news organization. As far as this being the &quot;end of an era&quot;, this does not address the editorial and programming content or their commitment to being biased.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They get the benefit of the doubt with mistakes, especially considering the nature of their critics and the PC liberal media and commentary orthodoxy.  At their worst they&#039;re maybe somewhere between the Washington Times on the lighter side of bias (such as in headlines, occasionally) and, say, Newsmax (whose &quot;news&quot; stories refer to entities like &quot;Taxachusetts&quot;).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s certainly not like what&#039;s been revealed (and which is no surprise, simply remarkable to the extent and depth the participants chose to go) about PC suppression and politicized climate &quot;science&quot; (which is a major scandal and story, and naturally is &quot;neglected&quot; if not actively suppressed on this lefty site).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Fox is a lightweight, and may often be assumed to have erred, not deceived, unlike the PC Climate Psyientists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;All this memo says is that they don&#39;t want production mistakes, which I believe is the goal of any news organization. As far as this being the &#8220;end of an era&#8221;, this does not address the editorial and programming content or their commitment to being biased.&#8221;</p>
<p>They get the benefit of the doubt with mistakes, especially considering the nature of their critics and the PC liberal media and commentary orthodoxy.  At their worst they&#39;re maybe somewhere between the Washington Times on the lighter side of bias (such as in headlines, occasionally) and, say, Newsmax (whose &#8220;news&#8221; stories refer to entities like &#8220;Taxachusetts&#8221;).</p>
<p>It&#39;s certainly not like what&#39;s been revealed (and which is no surprise, simply remarkable to the extent and depth the participants chose to go) about PC suppression and politicized climate &#8220;science&#8221; (which is a major scandal and story, and naturally is &#8220;neglected&#8221; if not actively suppressed on this lefty site).</p>
<p>Fox is a lightweight, and may often be assumed to have erred, not deceived, unlike the PC Climate Psyientists.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMagicalSkyFather</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233246</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMagicalSkyFather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233246</guid>
		<description>Wow thank you for that, to be honest I missed that very obvious take on the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow thank you for that, to be honest I missed that very obvious take on the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley_B</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233231</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley_B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233231</guid>
		<description>The &quot;mistake&quot; that engendered this memo was the picture of the &quot;Going Rouge&quot; satire book instead of &quot;Going Rogue&quot;, thereby embarrassing Murdoch&#039;s babe, Palin.  This is the only reason this memo was sent out:  don&#039;t embarrass one of OURS.  The other mistakes that have garnered attention here and elsewhere, are seemingly okay.  FOX doesn&#039;t care about mistakes.  They care about mistakes that portray one or several of their favored few in a less than flattering light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;mistake&#8221; that engendered this memo was the picture of the &#8220;Going Rouge&#8221; satire book instead of &#8220;Going Rogue&#8221;, thereby embarrassing Murdoch&#39;s babe, Palin.  This is the only reason this memo was sent out:  don&#39;t embarrass one of OURS.  The other mistakes that have garnered attention here and elsewhere, are seemingly okay.  FOX doesn&#39;t care about mistakes.  They care about mistakes that portray one or several of their favored few in a less than flattering light.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233230</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233230</guid>
		<description>LOL DLS These two links seem to say that the skeptics are blowing the emails out of proportion:&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/dangerous-ideas/2009/nov/23/a-snootful-of-e-mails/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/dangerous-ideas...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Well at any rate, I think this is typical scientific e-mail give and take in a highly politicized arena (been there myself) and I don&#039;t think that global warming skeptics should make too much of this stuff. Besides if they are crying foul because some one who disagrees with them in a private e-mail refers to them as idiots then maybe they ought to get thicker skins.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t take my word for it. You too can sleuth evil climate scientists e-mail by going to the following site and enter your favorite search term! &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;But several scientists whose names appear in the e-mail messages said they merely revealed that scientists were human, and did nothing to undercut the body of research on global warming. “Science doesn’t work because we’re all nice,” said Gavin A. Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA whose e-mail exchanges with colleagues over a variety of climate studies were in the cache. “Newton may have been an ass, but the theory of gravity still works.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;LOL Newton was an ass, so gravity is a hoax...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL DLS These two links seem to say that the skeptics are blowing the emails out of proportion:<br /><a href="http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/dangerous-ideas/2009/nov/23/a-snootful-of-e-mails/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/dangerous-ideas.." rel="nofollow">http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/dangerous-ideas..</a>.<br />
<blockquote>Well at any rate, I think this is typical scientific e-mail give and take in a highly politicized arena (been there myself) and I don&#39;t think that global warming skeptics should make too much of this stuff. Besides if they are crying foul because some one who disagrees with them in a private e-mail refers to them as idiots then maybe they ought to get thicker skins.</p>
<p>Don&#39;t take my word for it. You too can sleuth evil climate scientists e-mail by going to the following site and enter your favorite search term! </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth.." rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth..</a>.<br />
<blockquote>But several scientists whose names appear in the e-mail messages said they merely revealed that scientists were human, and did nothing to undercut the body of research on global warming. “Science doesn’t work because we’re all nice,” said Gavin A. Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA whose e-mail exchanges with colleagues over a variety of climate studies were in the cache. “Newton may have been an ass, but the theory of gravity still works.”</p></blockquote>
<p>LOL Newton was an ass, so gravity is a hoax&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233205</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 06:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233205</guid>
		<description>Maybe Fox &quot;needs&quot; to do a purge or seek the &quot;purity&quot; that the politicized climate scientists seek, a story that this site is, predictably, neglecting if not deliberately omitting (suppressing) as they appear to be doing especially heavily right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Fox &#8220;needs&#8221; to do a purge or seek the &#8220;purity&#8221; that the politicized climate scientists seek, a story that this site is, predictably, neglecting if not deliberately omitting (suppressing) as they appear to be doing especially heavily right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233198</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233198</guid>
		<description>Well the Brass has to make it look like they&#039;re upset at the &quot;mistakes&quot; don&#039;t they?..lol..&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Unfortunately for them we aren&#039;t dumb and the old saying &quot;fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me&quot; holds true. We aren&#039;t fooled Fox. We know you are the mouthpiece for the far right and will say and do ANYTHING to maintain your mafiosoesque hold on the populace via blatant propaganda.  Even if that includes &quot;looking&quot; tough on &quot;mistakes&quot; made by your talking heads.&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the Brass has to make it look like they&#39;re upset at the &#8220;mistakes&#8221; don&#39;t they?..lol..</p>
<p>Unfortunately for them we aren&#39;t dumb and the old saying &#8220;fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me&#8221; holds true. We aren&#39;t fooled Fox. We know you are the mouthpiece for the far right and will say and do ANYTHING to maintain your mafiosoesque hold on the populace via blatant propaganda.  Even if that includes &#8220;looking&#8221; tough on &#8220;mistakes&#8221; made by your talking heads.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMagicalSkyFather</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233166</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMagicalSkyFather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233166</guid>
		<description>I disagree, they will have more difficulty explaining away &quot;production problems&quot; now that they have acknowledged it as a problem issue at their station.  They will still be biased though I agree and notice the &quot;manageable&quot; word which just screams &quot;we will pre-screen all callers and interviews to ensure no surprises or embarrassing moments pop up.&quot;  Either way after a decade of &quot;nothing to see here we are clean and all is well&quot; they just switched to &quot;um we have a PR problem&quot; and little as that is I will call it a win.  A tiny win but the Monica Lewinsky story for Drudge was a tiny win that paid dividends over a decade so I will take note.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree, they will have more difficulty explaining away &#8220;production problems&#8221; now that they have acknowledged it as a problem issue at their station.  They will still be biased though I agree and notice the &#8220;manageable&#8221; word which just screams &#8220;we will pre-screen all callers and interviews to ensure no surprises or embarrassing moments pop up.&#8221;  Either way after a decade of &#8220;nothing to see here we are clean and all is well&#8221; they just switched to &#8220;um we have a PR problem&#8221; and little as that is I will call it a win.  A tiny win but the Monica Lewinsky story for Drudge was a tiny win that paid dividends over a decade so I will take note.</p>
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		<title>By: StockBoySF</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233153</link>
		<dc:creator>StockBoySF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233153</guid>
		<description>&quot;EIther way that memo seems to be an end of an era, the wink, wink nod nod era.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;All this memo says is that they don&#039;t want production mistakes, which I believe is the goal of any news organization.  As far as this being the &quot;end of an era&quot;, this does not address the editorial and programming content or their commitment to being biased.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s absolutely nothing special about this memo telling people to do their jobs right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;EIther way that memo seems to be an end of an era, the wink, wink nod nod era.&#8221;</p>
<p>All this memo says is that they don&#39;t want production mistakes, which I believe is the goal of any news organization.  As far as this being the &#8220;end of an era&#8221;, this does not address the editorial and programming content or their commitment to being biased.</p>
<p>There&#39;s absolutely nothing special about this memo telling people to do their jobs right.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMagicalSkyFather</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233144</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMagicalSkyFather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233144</guid>
		<description>About five years ago my girlfriends best friend worked for FNC as an intern.  I warned her but she really did not care much about politics and figured it was a good gig.  She was a marketing major, the first job they requested of her was to lighten some images of Bush and darken some images of Kerry.  She refused and when they let her know this is what they needed her to do she walked out.  I gained a good deal of respect for her in that moment.  I pleaded with her to put it on a blog or something but she was afraid it would hurt her future job prospects, either way this is an intentional phenomenon there and no one is confused but it is possible they are trying to bring it to an end by stopping &quot;the mistakes.&quot;  If they do stop Fox just got Out Obama&#039;d, if they do not stop this will be posted in every debate where people are trying to say they are balanced &quot;they know there is a problem and still do not fix it.&quot;  EIther way that memo seems to be an end of an era, the wink, wink nod nod era.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About five years ago my girlfriends best friend worked for FNC as an intern.  I warned her but she really did not care much about politics and figured it was a good gig.  She was a marketing major, the first job they requested of her was to lighten some images of Bush and darken some images of Kerry.  She refused and when they let her know this is what they needed her to do she walked out.  I gained a good deal of respect for her in that moment.  I pleaded with her to put it on a blog or something but she was afraid it would hurt her future job prospects, either way this is an intentional phenomenon there and no one is confused but it is possible they are trying to bring it to an end by stopping &#8220;the mistakes.&#8221;  If they do stop Fox just got Out Obama&#39;d, if they do not stop this will be posted in every debate where people are trying to say they are balanced &#8220;they know there is a problem and still do not fix it.&#8221;  EIther way that memo seems to be an end of an era, the wink, wink nod nod era.</p>
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		<title>By: StockBoySF</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233134</link>
		<dc:creator>StockBoySF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233134</guid>
		<description>I firmly believe that Fox is trying to clean up their act.  Wink wink, nod nod.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I firmly believe that Fox is trying to clean up their act.  Wink wink, nod nod.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233126</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233126</guid>
		<description>If they were serious, they could use the Christian Science Monitor for a role model. Of course they aren&#039;t serious though. Perception is the name of their game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they were serious, they could use the Christian Science Monitor for a role model. Of course they aren&#39;t serious though. Perception is the name of their game.</p>
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		<title>By: Father_Time</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233119</link>
		<dc:creator>Father_Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233119</guid>
		<description>They will never change. Fox is dedicated to Rupert Murdoch&#039;s personal distorted perception of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They will never change. Fox is dedicated to Rupert Murdoch&#39;s personal distorted perception of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: shannonlee</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53937/fox-news-management-gets-serious-about-quality-control/comment-page-1/#comment-233111</link>
		<dc:creator>shannonlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53937#comment-233111</guid>
		<description>In order for their propaganda machinemarketing theory to work, the 15 minutes of actual news they report must be perfect.  I can understand management being very upset at their &quot;news&quot; producers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In order for their propaganda machinemarketing theory to work, the 15 minutes of actual news they report must be perfect.  I can understand management being very upset at their &#8220;news&#8221; producers.</p>
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