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	<title>Comments on: Hearing History: Lyndon Johnson Escalates Vietnam</title>
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		<title>By: keelaay</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-233194</link>
		<dc:creator>keelaay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-233194</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not apologizing for LBJ.  Have read many revealing biographies of him and Karnow&#039;s account of Vietnam.  Clearly the Vietnam war was a catastrophe.  I&#039;m just saying that the stakes were higher than presented in most arguments.  Yes plenty were advising against the war contemporaneously as has  been the case with nearly every war.   The choices and consequences were not black and white.  LBJ was tormented by the war and it destroyed his presidency and his liberal agenda.  And your right, the solders never get to decide, except through their own votes on election day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m not apologizing for LBJ.  Have read many revealing biographies of him and Karnow&#39;s account of Vietnam.  Clearly the Vietnam war was a catastrophe.  I&#39;m just saying that the stakes were higher than presented in most arguments.  Yes plenty were advising against the war contemporaneously as has  been the case with nearly every war.   The choices and consequences were not black and white.  LBJ was tormented by the war and it destroyed his presidency and his liberal agenda.  And your right, the solders never get to decide, except through their own votes on election day.</p>
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		<title>By: Tin sáng th? t?, 24.11.2009 &#171; Voland1980&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-233184</link>
		<dc:creator>Tin sáng th? t?, 24.11.2009 &#171; Voland1980&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-233184</guid>
		<description>[...] Hearing History: Lyndon Johnson escalates Vietnam (Moderate Voice). L?ng nghe l?ch s?: Lyndon Johnson leo thang [trong chi?n tranh] Vi?t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hearing History: Lyndon Johnson escalates Vietnam (Moderate Voice). L?ng nghe l?ch s?: Lyndon Johnson leo thang [trong chi?n tranh] Vi?t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-233053</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-233053</guid>
		<description>Keelaay, this isn&#039;t all Monday morning quarterbacking, there was plenty of information available at the time pointing out why Vietnam would be a mistake for the US, and there were plenty of people who knew it and were talking about it by the mid 60&#039;s. The wrong choices were made and as usual in the case of bogus wars, the sacrifices were made by those who trusted the ones who made the choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keelaay, this isn&#39;t all Monday morning quarterbacking, there was plenty of information available at the time pointing out why Vietnam would be a mistake for the US, and there were plenty of people who knew it and were talking about it by the mid 60&#39;s. The wrong choices were made and as usual in the case of bogus wars, the sacrifices were made by those who trusted the ones who made the choices.</p>
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		<title>By: spirasol</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232980</link>
		<dc:creator>spirasol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232980</guid>
		<description>........as the Moyers show has continued to effect me in waves........another question arises, brought out in the program, having to do with the reasons why Pres. Johnson said &quot;Yes.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A lot of the discussion seemed to be about &quot;backing down, &quot;  running away&quot; and other such euphemisms for cowardice, loss of pride, shame, embarrassment and the global consequences of such action.  There is a lot of testosterone in the upper ledges of decision making, and I found myself wondering about gender and decision making at the highest levels.  Also about the level of American maturity, which seems to be quite low.  We try to raise our kids to understand the courage it takes to admit we were wrong, we misunderstood, we made a mistake, ...........and that the first step to addressing it is to admit it, than we can get on with the business of correcting it. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What does it mean that America cannot make a mistake or even consider that it is fallible? History proves otherwise, so who does it serve to maintain this fiction?   The principles in play about how we want to raise human beings don&#039;t seem to have application when we speak of us as a group.  The group that reduces all to saving face and protecting our image seems to be the group that so many agree with.  In other words, our personal narratives seem to be out of sync with our national narratives.  To reduce it to my understanding, the former requires humility and strength of character, and the latter seems to be more certain, unrelenting, righteous, unapologetic among other descriptions.        Did anyone else notice these discrepancies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8230;..as the Moyers show has continued to effect me in waves&#8230;&#8230;..another question arises, brought out in the program, having to do with the reasons why Pres. Johnson said &#8220;Yes.&#8221;</p>
<p>A lot of the discussion seemed to be about &#8220;backing down, &#8221;  running away&#8221; and other such euphemisms for cowardice, loss of pride, shame, embarrassment and the global consequences of such action.  There is a lot of testosterone in the upper ledges of decision making, and I found myself wondering about gender and decision making at the highest levels.  Also about the level of American maturity, which seems to be quite low.  We try to raise our kids to understand the courage it takes to admit we were wrong, we misunderstood, we made a mistake, &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..and that the first step to addressing it is to admit it, than we can get on with the business of correcting it. </p>
<p>What does it mean that America cannot make a mistake or even consider that it is fallible? History proves otherwise, so who does it serve to maintain this fiction?   The principles in play about how we want to raise human beings don&#39;t seem to have application when we speak of us as a group.  The group that reduces all to saving face and protecting our image seems to be the group that so many agree with.  In other words, our personal narratives seem to be out of sync with our national narratives.  To reduce it to my understanding, the former requires humility and strength of character, and the latter seems to be more certain, unrelenting, righteous, unapologetic among other descriptions.        Did anyone else notice these discrepancies?</p>
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		<title>By: spirasol</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232976</link>
		<dc:creator>spirasol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232976</guid>
		<description>I watched.  I listened. My jaw dropped. Now this is journalism&#039;s finest hour.  Impressive indeed.  I who lived through it, but never saw in the way this story unfolds what really happened, now only existing as mere fragments in my mind.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I wonder too, as a former presidential advisor, if Moyers wasn&#039;t both empathizing with Pres. Obama, but also trying to get his ear...........Psss...........it would be powerful historical advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched.  I listened. My jaw dropped. Now this is journalism&#39;s finest hour.  Impressive indeed.  I who lived through it, but never saw in the way this story unfolds what really happened, now only existing as mere fragments in my mind.  </p>
<p>I wonder too, as a former presidential advisor, if Moyers wasn&#39;t both empathizing with Pres. Obama, but also trying to get his ear&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..Psss&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..it would be powerful historical advice.</p>
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		<title>By: keelaay</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232960</link>
		<dc:creator>keelaay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232960</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not so sure I agree with the &quot;answered correctly&quot; analysis.  The &quot;no good answers&quot; response I think is closer to the mark.. especially considering the high stakes in 196x and the Monday morning QB perspective from all thereafter.  Four days... forty years.  Makes no difference.  We cannot honestly put ourselves in LBJ&#039;s shoes with rear view mirrors in our sunglasses.  I am not arguing that LBJ made the correct decisions, just that the &quot;it was so obvious and wrong&quot; declarations that pervade both left and right analysis these days is unfair and naive.  The issues, challenges, and potential consequences these men had to confront -- for better and for worse --  were more than any of us likely will have to face in our lifetimes.  And the answers were far from black and white... or even gray.   I respect all those that are elected as public servants to make such daunting and harrowing decisions.  Best of luck, God be with them...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m not so sure I agree with the &#8220;answered correctly&#8221; analysis.  The &#8220;no good answers&#8221; response I think is closer to the mark.. especially considering the high stakes in 196x and the Monday morning QB perspective from all thereafter.  Four days&#8230; forty years.  Makes no difference.  We cannot honestly put ourselves in LBJ&#39;s shoes with rear view mirrors in our sunglasses.  I am not arguing that LBJ made the correct decisions, just that the &#8220;it was so obvious and wrong&#8221; declarations that pervade both left and right analysis these days is unfair and naive.  The issues, challenges, and potential consequences these men had to confront &#8212; for better and for worse &#8212;  were more than any of us likely will have to face in our lifetimes.  And the answers were far from black and white&#8230; or even gray.   I respect all those that are elected as public servants to make such daunting and harrowing decisions.  Best of luck, God be with them&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232949</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232949</guid>
		<description>I caught part of the program, and it was excellent. The questions LBJ was wrestling with in 1964 could have ended that terribly wrong war 10 years early if they&#039;d been answered correctly. The man was truly tormented it seems, but should have listened to his own conscience more than the advice from outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I caught part of the program, and it was excellent. The questions LBJ was wrestling with in 1964 could have ended that terribly wrong war 10 years early if they&#39;d been answered correctly. The man was truly tormented it seems, but should have listened to his own conscience more than the advice from outside.</p>
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		<title>By: vey9</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232919</link>
		<dc:creator>vey9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232919</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m struck by the similarities with our situation today, most especially the truth that there were no, there are no, good answers. &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I heard this on the podcast last night and I was surprised at the similarities. I was hoping someone would post about it. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m struck by the similarities with our situation today, most especially the truth that there were no, there are no, good answers. &#8220;</p>
<p>I heard this on the podcast last night and I was surprised at the similarities. I was hoping someone would post about it. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Hearing History: Johnson Escalates Vietnam &#124; The Moderate Voice -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232901</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Hearing History: Johnson Escalates Vietnam &#124; The Moderate Voice -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232901</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV, Vietnam Wire. Vietnam Wire said: Hearing History: Lyndon Johnson Escalates Vietnam - The Moderate Voice: Boston GlobeHearing History: Lyndon Joh.. http://bit.ly/6LAbWy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV, Vietnam Wire. Vietnam Wire said: Hearing History: Lyndon Johnson Escalates Vietnam &#8211; The Moderate Voice: Boston GlobeHearing History: Lyndon Joh.. <a href="http://bit.ly/6LAbWy" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/6LAbWy</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peacethinker</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232899</link>
		<dc:creator>Peacethinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232899</guid>
		<description>I love Bill Moyers, he&#039;s terrific... he&#039;s retiring next year at 75 and I&#039;ll miss him very much. He has always been a voice of reason, conscience, intelligence... I don&#039;t know him personally, but he seems a very decent human.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I added a link to this from my site: &lt;A href=&quot;http://vitalmuser.ning.com/&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://vitalmuser.ning.com/&lt;/A&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Specific link: &lt;a href=&quot;http://vitalmuser.ning.com/forum/topics/johnsons-escalation-of-vietnam&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://vitalmuser.ning.com/forum/topics/johnson...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Bill Moyers, he&#39;s terrific&#8230; he&#39;s retiring next year at 75 and I&#39;ll miss him very much. He has always been a voice of reason, conscience, intelligence&#8230; I don&#39;t know him personally, but he seems a very decent human.</p>
<p>I added a link to this from my site: <a href="http://vitalmuser.ning.com/" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">http://vitalmuser.ning.com/</a></p>
<p>Specific link: <a href="http://vitalmuser.ning.com/forum/topics/johnsons-escalation-of-vietnam" rel="nofollow">http://vitalmuser.ning.com/forum/topics/johnson&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: About bill moyers journal, vietnam, pbs &#124; Find me About</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/53807/hearing-history-johnson-escalates-vietnam/comment-page-1/#comment-232887</link>
		<dc:creator>About bill moyers journal, vietnam, pbs &#124; Find me About</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=53807#comment-232887</guid>
		<description>[...] Bill Moyers offers up a fascinating hour of history that is a must listen/watch for those of us who are seriously interested in considering the question of what to do in Afghanistan. Whether we agree or disagree, advocate more troops or pulling them &#8230;Read Original Story: Hearing History: Lyndon Johnson Escalates Vietnam &#8211; The Moderate Voice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bill Moyers offers up a fascinating hour of history that is a must listen/watch for those of us who are seriously interested in considering the question of what to do in Afghanistan. Whether we agree or disagree, advocate more troops or pulling them &#8230;Read Original Story: Hearing History: Lyndon Johnson Escalates Vietnam &#8211; The Moderate Voice [...]</p>
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