We are supposed to be “better” than the criminal, remember?

Two cents worth,
Ghost

Father_Time quote in regards to Hasan: “A menace to society to be mentally dissected like a lab specimen and then killed according to the law of capital punishment that applies.”

No compassion afforded a sick human being should be forthcoming.

Islam didn't cause Hasan to walk into that facility and start shooting. Islam directed the path of his personal destruction towards that facility. Hasan's mental break from reality and religious beliefs caused this tragedy. The mental break being the tipping point.

So basically, take Islam out of Hasan's life and he still snaps and does who knows what, maybe the same thing. With Islam in Hasan's life, he does this.

“A significant number of Navy medical officials and Marine commanders do not get it,” a frustrated Manion said about the situation at Camp Lejeune. “They do not understand the implications of what happens if somebody loses it,” explained Manion, who has 25 years of experience as a psychiatrist and who also specializes in traumatic brain injury — exactly the kinds of skills needed so desperately at military hospitals, because mental problems and brain injuries are the signature wounds of the ongoing wars. “People either commit suicide, commit homicide, get drunk, beat up the wife, all these things. I've seen it,” he added. “That is how serious this is and they just don't get it.”

The Militarization of Mental Health; Death by Denial

<http://www.counterpunch.org/cramer11132009.html>

Mary Lynn Cramer, MA, MSW, LICSW worked for many years as a clinical social worker treating children and adults with PTSD and Dissociative symptoms.

My two cents,
Ghost

If I understand you correctly, Dr. Hasan was scamming and then because his scam wasn't working, he descended into a false belief system that led him to murder….
Are you aware that what you are describing is a man in the grips of a psychotic break?
IF someone, with intent, builds up a series of falsehoods in order to get “light duty” but then, for whatever reason, then begins to believe his own lies to the extent that his original reality is shattered and then the fellow acts out on his false beliefs…
That sounds like many of the psychotic situations I have seen.
Conversely, could it be that Hassan was having issues all along and THAT was why he was such a slacker?
Most people in our society wish to be functioning, productive and participatory members of this society and they wish to succeed in life as well.
For a person to become so disaffected with society and with life that he begins to “turn off, tune out, and veg” is usually the beginning of a long descent into darkness and a sickness of mind of soul.

My two cents,
Ghost

I suspect that being a devout Muslim was a prop used in the scam to justify things like not working hard during Ramadan, being late to work, or not working any of the Muslim holidays. It is when the scam did not work as well as Dr Hasan believed that he seemed to descend into really believing what he was saying and Dr Hasan began to hate the world.

The question is whether failing to scam people should be considered a mental illness.

Thank you too for your straight up report on 'scheming' projections by some in the military. That continues to be a shameful response. There has to be a better way to separate slackers from those with genuine concerns. I've seen the 'wanna get out' syndrome in those too, a different category altogether, who were often too immature and ought not have been oversold by recruiters to begin with.

I always want to say when we speak of so much that seems unspeakable, Ghost, Let us pray.

thanks.

I will not be surprised if it turns out that Hassan did say he was having issues and asked for assistance. It does seem that they missed many other clues that this was a man who should not be serving in the army.

When I served, many of service people did ask for help and were ignored. Everything that I have read concerning current military attitudes is amazingly descriptive of what many of my comrades in arms enjoyed (sarcasm intended) during their time in service and that was 35 years ago. I have been shocked and alarmed to think that 35 years can pass by and our military remains as deeply mired in denial as it was when I was discharged in 1975.
When I was in many airmen went in seeking help only to be told that:
1) They were scheming to get an easy out and this was not going to happen.
2) They were scheming to get sent back home and this was not going to happen
3) They were scheming to get out of their current tour of duty because of a dear john letter and this was not going to happen.
4) They were scheming …..

I'm sure yawl catch my drift…
Then there was the money issue..
The service had paid for their training .. did they think it fair for the tax payer to put out all of that money only to have them QUIT? Well, by golly, they were NOT going to quit!

It is actions and attitudes such as these that, not only do not help people having a mental health crisis but can make things so very much worse.
Having said all of this, I personally don't wish to make a snap judgement but from what little has been released, it doesn't look or sound right to me.
There is a possibility that Hassan wanted out, said he was troubled, and no one listened and I think it is a possibility that should be looked at because we need to make sure that such a mistake is not repeated.
No one is saying his behavior is to be condoned.
They are asking the question if he snapped YET had warned people before hand that he was unwell and having serious issues … ? Then what?
Our society does not execute people who are not in control of themselves due to insanity. That went out with the middle ages, eh?

Be well,
Ghosty

PS In my opinion, the death penalty is from the middle ages as well and should be dispensed with, but that's a whole different discussion.

I appreciate that you use the word “minute” when talking about antipsychotic dosage and I realize that dosage is one more important issues when discussing side effects but for most of the shrinks I know (and that's not an insignificant number heeh) they have an attitude of “more is better.”
The patient suffers due to the treatment and the suffering is not insignificant. We're not talking about gaining two pounds or slight sedation here. I have yet to meet a person who has not gained a significant amount of weight and much worse, I known several people with TD (tardive dyskinesia) due to antipsychotic therapy.
Antipsychotic side effects (partial list rom Wikipedia):
Antipsychotics are associated with a range of side effects. It is well-recognized that many stop taking them (around two-thirds of people in controlled drug trials) due in part to adverse effects. Extrapyramidal reactions include acute dystonias, akathisia, parkinsonism (rigidity and tremor), tardive dyskinesia, tachycardia, hypotension, impotence, lethargy, seizures, intense dreams or nightmares, and hyperprolactinaemia.

Scary side effect:
Tardive dyskinesia is a variety of dyskinesia (involuntary, repetitive movements) manifesting as a side effect of long-term or high-dose use of dopamine antagonists, usually antipsychotics. Other dopamine antagonists that can cause tardive dyskinesia are drugs for gastrointestinal disorders (e.g. metoclopramide) and neurological disorders. While newer atypical antipsychotics such as olanzapine and risperidone appear to have less dystonic effects, only clozapine has been shown to have a lower risk of tardive dyskinesia than older antipsychotics.

TD is not curable.
This is a “visable” condition. The person's tongue and mouth move ongoing. That is to say, their tongue will move in and out of ther mouth and they move their mouth .. WELL … it's hard to describe so I've copied a video for anyone who wishes to know more about tardive dyskinesia.
This lady was on one of the newer anti-psychotics (Geodon) for a year and a half at a high dose and is responding well to amatadine (sp?) but frankly, that is rare and, of course, amatadine has it's own list of side effects.
There's no way to really describe TD except to see it so I'm giving an url
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJjXqKa4cbE&feat…

BTW, the psychiatrist will always mention that there is a CHANCE the patient can get TD and by doing so insures that there is NO CHANCE of the person being able to sue for damages and TD is serious neurological damage.
The older antipsychotics are most famous for the TD condition but the newer meds are having it happen as well…and as for the claim that it's less often ..
Considering that the “newer” meds are “newer” .. who's to say what we'll be looking at in 10 years.
Trivia: The phenothiazine catagory of antipsychotic (thorazine, melliril, etc) was originally introduced (in 1935) as an insecticide.
The BBC on Nov 12, 09 reported:
150,000 dementia sufferers 'being prescribed anti-psychotic drugs unnecessarily'
Up to 150,000 people with dementia are being prescribed anti-psychotic drugs unnecessarily, a Government-ordered review disclosed.
Only around 36,000 of the 180,000 people on the drugs in the UK derive any benefit from them, it said.

Over prescribing of the drugs is linked to an extra 1,800 deaths a year among elderly people.

My one and a half cents worth
Ghosty

thanks.

thanks.

Just look at how is relatives are supporting the scam even though virtually everything they have said had been shown to be false.

I was struck in particular by your idea of developing a “science of peace”. A wondeful idea whose time, one hopes, will come soon.