Subcontracting in fact makes sense as a permenant way to down-size government operations.

“Uh huh. Like $900 a day mercenaries instead of trusting our troops? Like hiring Halliburton …”

This was conceded in the 1990s, even though it was fought by government unions (which we still see in ancient places like Detroit city, currently) and

[Read the following, which was missed earlier.]

even though contractor problems in Iraq have blemished it.

Besides, nimbyism from progressives like yourself will ensure that most projects cannot get started in the U.S.

I think all of us had some civilian work (infrastructure or otherwise) ideas in our heads when the word “stimulus” came up for the first few times. Then it all went to banks and insurance companies. Indeed…. What a shame.

Infrastructure is the way to go. That was one of the things I liked about Huckabee…. This was his exact approach to helping the economy in a downswing. I really liked that guy.

Uh huh. Like $900 a day mercenaries instead of trusting our troops? Like hiring Halliburton at $200 an hour to subcontract operations to another company at $75 an hour so they could subcontract that to another who actually hired someone to do the work for $7.50 an hour. Yeah, and to think you're the one whining about deficits and debt.

Subcontracting in fact makes sense as a permenant way to down-size government operations.

This was conceded in the 1990s, even though it was fought by government unions (which we still see in ancient places like Detroit city, currently) and even though contractor problems in Iraq have blemished it.

There's no reason that we can't subcontract most of this, as well as, for example, hire prison laborers. (So much nonsense is being said about the chain gangs, which are more humane now than before, and none of the silly critics bother to ask the prisoners what they think about getting the chance to do outside prison and jail walls. Never mind that an expanded scenario as on this thread would involve job experience or training, effectively, too.)

“deporting the 10-20 million illegal aliens. Why start up a jobs program while maintaining open borders and a policy of unlimited immigration”

Make 'em build a wall before they're kicked out first!

So would I. Any government stimulus (especially with the federal government) is normally rejected, but many of us were willing to suspend propriety and give Washington (ObamaCo) the chance to try what in theory was grand and appealing and logical, if not economically and ideologically controversial.

This thread, the “economic summit” next month by ObamaCo, and all other discussion and nearly all other thought on subjects related to this right now are news and discussion issues specifically because ObamaCo and the lib Dems in Congress did the wrong this so far, this year, and have achieved next to nothing in addition to engaging in a great deal of wrongdoing and present and future harm. It's no surprise now that trying to do things right, after all, this time, hopefully (which is what this thread and these issues really are all about, doing things right, after all, this time, hopefully) is developing news now.

Actually, the reality is the suburbanization and exurbanization of this country.

Inner-ring suburbs and the next, currently-declining adjacent communities are the best bang for the buck.

(What I omitted from an earlier posting is something not related to nuts and bolts only, but which is the next step, which would be to rebuild housing as well as roads and bridges, etc., and then to address not only public housing, but to look ahead to long-term housing as well as rehab for the unemployed and those getting out of jail or prison, etc., who are being job-trained, ideally — where will they go? What about disaster refugees, if rebuilding their former home makes no sense for various reasons, be it too costly, too outmoded — central-city oriented — or in an environmentally unrealistic or risky place like beach areas near hurricane storm surge zones, for example? What about so many inner-city people whose future jobs are in the suburbs and smaller cities in rural areas, etc? Relocate them into homes that are set up for them. It's cheaper, anyway, than perpetuating the existing inner-city treadmill to nowhere.)

Including prison labor. This should not be neglected, or worse, ignored or avoided.

No union subjection, “prevailing wage” union-favoritism, etc. No make-work just for make-work's sake, no emotional drivel recalling the WPA and trying to cast Obama again ridiculously as another FDR. [gag]

Infrastructure, yes. (New highways, deficient bridge repair and replacement, electrical transmission new construction as well as upgrades, such as uprating voltages and replacing older towers with newer, more enviro-friendly and aesthetic cost-effective towers, etc.) Retrofitting structures for energy efficiency (new insulation, substandard facility repairs and replacements, LEAD PAINT REMOVAL in places like St. Louis city buildings, etc.), yes. Just don't overdo it or leap emotionally to ridiculously silly expectations.

I think you're losing it, GD. I'm not supporting cutting costs by sacrificing worker safety. I'm saying the standard of worker safety has changed since the 1930's, and that will make things more complicated as compared to that era.

And I am all for hiring currently unemployed construction workers, I just don't think we need a CCC to accomplish that. I would have preferred an increased focus on infrastructure in the stimulus bill.

Why should we want anything less than safe working conditions. This is a new low for you DaGoat, supporting cost cutting through sacrificing worker safety. And you're wrong about worker expectations. Very wrong. Home building, construction and remodeling industries are in freefall right now. There has never been a faster collapse of any industry I know of. Believe me or not, but there are vast pools of experienced construction workers, planners, designers and installers who are out of work and desperate.

Neither does the right, because it's a stupid and undoable idea. Mister naysayer, there are thousands of “shovel ready” projects in every single state. And both minority and female contractors have already been qualified, as have contractors with no such designation (which do still get the lion's share of the work).

In addition, many of the kind of projects being talked about require skilled laborers, not unskilled. You can't just hire some schlub to repair a bridge, you need ironworkers, welders, etc. By the time the unskilled are trained the job situation would probably have improved on it's own.

Finally, I have to question the level of interest in a CCC type project given that many people are already receiving unemployment and will see no personal benefit in joining such a program.

I do like the idea of improving infrastructure but it would be quicker just to hire out the projects using existing skilled laborers that are currently unemployed (as opposed to creating a government program).

Yes, we are very much a changed America, and technology has impacted our ability to employ many people at a low level of technical sophistication is radically reduced. (Technology — ain't it great?) However, many of the CCC projects stand today. They were engineered and executed wonderfully, and I happily encounter them in my hikings and wanderings all the time. National parks, though, aren't the only places such projects would be useful. State parks, township conservation properties — all across the country, there are millions and millions of acres that need intelligent stewardship.

That said, though, I agree with GreenDreams. Among the many changes has been the urbanization of this country, and a radically different energy outlook. Putting people to work in the urban areas strikes me as an exceedingly useful idea. The needs there are vast, and the long-term benefits enormous.

And the roads / bridges / sewage systems all across the country are badly in need of repair and updating.

I would be willing to put public funds to use in this way, and support it strongly. Heck, I'd probably even volunteer to get involved out there in one of my beloved parks.

Of course, the left refuses to look at the idea of deporting the 10-20 million illegal aliens. Why start up a jobs program while maintaining open borders and a policy of unlimited immigration.

What do you say to the idea that we start penalizing employer who hire illegal aliens, lets say 100k per violation for the first 100 violations , and 500k for every violation above 100.

Also, idea like Corps of Engineers require environmental assessment, contract bidding, and the proper number of minority contractors. They take years to get started.

Well we could always KBR a nice cost plus contract to manage the job. I am sure that they would not rip us off.

Also, idea like Corps of Engineers require environmental assessment, contract bidding, and the proper number of minority contractors. They take years to get started.