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	<title>Comments on: When Voters Disrupt the Tea Party (Guest Voice)</title>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention When Voters Disrupt the Tea Party (Guest Voice) &#124; The Moderate Voice -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229435</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention When Voters Disrupt the Tea Party (Guest Voice) &#124; The Moderate Voice -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229435</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Hans Spee and TMV, Top Atl Lux Blog . Top Atl Lux Blog said: Atl Lux Restaurants When Voters Disrupt the Tea Party (Guest Voice) http://bit.ly/1bhBsn [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Hans Spee and TMV, Top Atl Lux Blog . Top Atl Lux Blog said: Atl Lux Restaurants When Voters Disrupt the Tea Party (Guest Voice) <a href="http://bit.ly/1bhBsn" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/1bhBsn</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229403</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229403</guid>
		<description>&quot;I believe most states, and even at the federal level, need much better auditing system of where our tax dollars are going.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s in addition to the bigger-picture reform I have stated numerous times is overdue, the application of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) to the federal, state, and local governments.  Also, we all deserve annual or other periodic balance sheets, income statements, accounting and explanations to be supplied for currently unfunded future liabilities by all these governments, and so on.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;An &quot;annual report&quot; with real figures in addition to any glitz, like those of businesses, rather than dumbed-down political press-and-public fluff, is needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I believe most states, and even at the federal level, need much better auditing system of where our tax dollars are going.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#39;s in addition to the bigger-picture reform I have stated numerous times is overdue, the application of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) to the federal, state, and local governments.  Also, we all deserve annual or other periodic balance sheets, income statements, accounting and explanations to be supplied for currently unfunded future liabilities by all these governments, and so on.</p>
<p>An &#8220;annual report&#8221; with real figures in addition to any glitz, like those of businesses, rather than dumbed-down political press-and-public fluff, is needed.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229401</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229401</guid>
		<description>Michigan is in notorious shape (someone else and I were discussing the state&#039;s fate earlier today, when I was taking her to downtown Detroit for an appointment) and probably will be worse next year, as rather than reform itself, which is long overdue, the state simply has misspent stimulus money from the federal government on current deficits -- even when the need to restrain this practice (which is what passes for &quot;reform&quot; in Blue Nation Michigan) in order to face worse expected deficits next year was already known.  (In later years, the question my passenger and I were wondering about was how much the state&#039;s metro areas and smaller cities would be like ghost towns, or like what I saw when I lived and worked for two years in Upstate New York -- decayed and decrepit, depressing places, or as my lib friend from DC said, predictably, when she came to visit me once: &quot;Dreary.&quot;)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Naturally, the dinosaur Democrats (liberals) here whine and wail and moan about government &quot;losses&quot; and what it means for &quot;the people,&quot; even though Michigan creates a hostile environment toward businesses, jobs, and people (who aren&#039;t in government or in favored unions).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s pretty bad when fast food restaurants and Hooters on the largest metro area arterials (designated as state highways) close.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And that&#039;s before the bigger problems next year, and what may happen in the years after that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michigan is in notorious shape (someone else and I were discussing the state&#39;s fate earlier today, when I was taking her to downtown Detroit for an appointment) and probably will be worse next year, as rather than reform itself, which is long overdue, the state simply has misspent stimulus money from the federal government on current deficits &#8212; even when the need to restrain this practice (which is what passes for &#8220;reform&#8221; in Blue Nation Michigan) in order to face worse expected deficits next year was already known.  (In later years, the question my passenger and I were wondering about was how much the state&#39;s metro areas and smaller cities would be like ghost towns, or like what I saw when I lived and worked for two years in Upstate New York &#8212; decayed and decrepit, depressing places, or as my lib friend from DC said, predictably, when she came to visit me once: &#8220;Dreary.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Naturally, the dinosaur Democrats (liberals) here whine and wail and moan about government &#8220;losses&#8221; and what it means for &#8220;the people,&#8221; even though Michigan creates a hostile environment toward businesses, jobs, and people (who aren&#39;t in government or in favored unions).</p>
<p>It&#39;s pretty bad when fast food restaurants and Hooters on the largest metro area arterials (designated as state highways) close.</p>
<p>And that&#39;s before the bigger problems next year, and what may happen in the years after that.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229400</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229400</guid>
		<description>I should add that far-left fringists (strongest proponents of the &quot;public option&quot; federal takeover approach to health care currently; ambitious &quot;global warming&quot; legislation and regulation and social engineering, etc.) have not only been outside the mainstream, but have been notably absent this year as far as activism and public spectacle, as well as apathetic (as the recent elections demonstrated), and perhaps as dysfunctional and stumbling as the liberal Democrats have been lately.  Why not only try to recover, but also to get out and be seen and heard more?  As with fringe far-left talk radio and now television (given a  beginning forum on MSNBC, farther left than the normal well-left lib-and-Dem major media orthodoxy and conformity that otherwise Fox is the party notorious for defying them), why not, if there is sufficient support and peer group formation, take advantage and be seen and heard -- not only in resolving this health care &quot;reform&quot; effort or with the &quot;global warming&quot; politically-directed legislative goals, but with other issues related to the complexion and nature of Washington in general (its nature as well as scope), as well as with individual issues?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that far-left fringists (strongest proponents of the &#8220;public option&#8221; federal takeover approach to health care currently; ambitious &#8220;global warming&#8221; legislation and regulation and social engineering, etc.) have not only been outside the mainstream, but have been notably absent this year as far as activism and public spectacle, as well as apathetic (as the recent elections demonstrated), and perhaps as dysfunctional and stumbling as the liberal Democrats have been lately.  Why not only try to recover, but also to get out and be seen and heard more?  As with fringe far-left talk radio and now television (given a  beginning forum on MSNBC, farther left than the normal well-left lib-and-Dem major media orthodoxy and conformity that otherwise Fox is the party notorious for defying them), why not, if there is sufficient support and peer group formation, take advantage and be seen and heard &#8212; not only in resolving this health care &#8220;reform&#8221; effort or with the &#8220;global warming&#8221; politically-directed legislative goals, but with other issues related to the complexion and nature of Washington in general (its nature as well as scope), as well as with individual issues?</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229366</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229366</guid>
		<description>[yawn]  Dogged liberals biting adult humans -- not big news there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[yawn]  Dogged liberals biting adult humans &#8212; not big news there.</p>
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		<title>By: Rambie</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229330</link>
		<dc:creator>Rambie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229330</guid>
		<description>Same in red state Utah T-Steel.   Over 50% of our property taxes goes to education but don&#039;t ask for an accounting of how that money is spent.   &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I believe most states, and even at the federal level, need much better auditing system of where our tax dollars are going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same in red state Utah T-Steel.   Over 50% of our property taxes goes to education but don&#39;t ask for an accounting of how that money is spent.   </p>
<p>I believe most states, and even at the federal level, need much better auditing system of where our tax dollars are going.</p>
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		<title>By: ProfElwood</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229321</link>
		<dc:creator>ProfElwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229321</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s close to what Indiana is experiencing. It&#039;s a &quot;purple&quot; state (actually something of a donut) that has a constitutional block on borrowing. In order to keep its rainy-day fund from getting depleted, while not directly raising taxes, they simply put the burden on the counties and made them do the tax increases. Politics is fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#39;s close to what Indiana is experiencing. It&#39;s a &#8220;purple&#8221; state (actually something of a donut) that has a constitutional block on borrowing. In order to keep its rainy-day fund from getting depleted, while not directly raising taxes, they simply put the burden on the counties and made them do the tax increases. Politics is fun.</p>
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		<title>By: merkin</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229314</link>
		<dc:creator>merkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229314</guid>
		<description>TABOR has also been defeated in Oklahoma and Nebraska, primarily because it is a bad idea.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;TABOR limits the increase in revenue to the increase in population plus inflation measured over the last year. There are two problems with this. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is no allowance for increases as a result of changes in population demographics. The health insurance industry has been very successful at driving up the cost of health care on one hand and of pushing off the sick onto the government. This has resulted in a large increase in Medicaid costs, far larger than the increase in the overall population. Another example is the increase in school age children called the mini-baby boom which called for increases in education budgets greater than the overall population increase.  Or the larg, out of proportation increase in prison population is another example. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The other major problem is the ratcheting down effect. Since the look back for allowable increases is only one year if that year was a recession year you build in a permanent deficit in revenue. The first year after a recession you are forced to rebate the increased revenue which actually was just the legal amount collected before the recession. Revenue goes down as a percentage of the economy and cannot be recovered even in an economic boom.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The only state that enacted TABOR was Colorado in 1992 (about). They have reformed it over the years to the point that it is now largely ineffective because it created so many problems and truly hurt the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TABOR has also been defeated in Oklahoma and Nebraska, primarily because it is a bad idea.</p>
<p>TABOR limits the increase in revenue to the increase in population plus inflation measured over the last year. There are two problems with this. </p>
<p>There is no allowance for increases as a result of changes in population demographics. The health insurance industry has been very successful at driving up the cost of health care on one hand and of pushing off the sick onto the government. This has resulted in a large increase in Medicaid costs, far larger than the increase in the overall population. Another example is the increase in school age children called the mini-baby boom which called for increases in education budgets greater than the overall population increase.  Or the larg, out of proportation increase in prison population is another example. </p>
<p>The other major problem is the ratcheting down effect. Since the look back for allowable increases is only one year if that year was a recession year you build in a permanent deficit in revenue. The first year after a recession you are forced to rebate the increased revenue which actually was just the legal amount collected before the recession. Revenue goes down as a percentage of the economy and cannot be recovered even in an economic boom.</p>
<p>The only state that enacted TABOR was Colorado in 1992 (about). They have reformed it over the years to the point that it is now largely ineffective because it created so many problems and truly hurt the state.</p>
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		<title>By: T-Steel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229294</link>
		<dc:creator>T-Steel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229294</guid>
		<description>Well I can tell you this much in red state Georgia, the dominant Republican state government is under serious fire for taking hundreds of fees and not knowing where the money is going thus strangling local city/county governments.  Has many Republicans covering their own behinds here.  So &quot;government issues&quot; is a bipartisan thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And regarding less government, red state Georgia wants more government concerning transportation since it&#039;s bad in Metro Atlanta and rural Georgia hasn&#039;t had any transportation &quot;love&quot; in years (unpaved roads, etc).  So I think that more/less government is all about what a need is in a particular area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I can tell you this much in red state Georgia, the dominant Republican state government is under serious fire for taking hundreds of fees and not knowing where the money is going thus strangling local city/county governments.  Has many Republicans covering their own behinds here.  So &#8220;government issues&#8221; is a bipartisan thing.</p>
<p>And regarding less government, red state Georgia wants more government concerning transportation since it&#39;s bad in Metro Atlanta and rural Georgia hasn&#39;t had any transportation &#8220;love&#8221; in years (unpaved roads, etc).  So I think that more/less government is all about what a need is in a particular area.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonidas</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/52355/when-voters-disrupt-the-tea-party-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-229284</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=52355#comment-229284</guid>
		<description>Of course the fact that Washington State and Maine are both Blue States had absolutely nothing to do with it. I mean Washington state even voted for Dukakis LOL, and Maine hasn&#039;t voted for a republican President since Dukakis ran.  I&#039;d like to see how bused in liberal groups fared if they tried it in a purple or red state.  All this tells me is that Liberal groups can win on issues in liberal states.  Gee what an earth shattering surprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the fact that Washington State and Maine are both Blue States had absolutely nothing to do with it. I mean Washington state even voted for Dukakis LOL, and Maine hasn&#39;t voted for a republican President since Dukakis ran.  I&#39;d like to see how bused in liberal groups fared if they tried it in a purple or red state.  All this tells me is that Liberal groups can win on issues in liberal states.  Gee what an earth shattering surprise.</p>
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