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New York Mag Profile of Nancy Pelosi: Follow-Up

Yesterday, I received a note (on my Facebook page) from Vanessa Grigoriadis, author of the Nancy Pelosi profile in New York Magazine that I critiqued here. The note says:

Hi Kathy,

I read your piece on my piece, and I have to say I think you are misreading this. I never would have said that Pelosi was a shrew myself; I was talking about the way she can be perceived. I understand that you feel the piece was badly done but I cant accept that it is anti-feminist. I do write with a lot of topspin and very aggressively, on every subject. In any case, the beginning of the paragraph with the words ’shrew’ lays out clearly what the piece is about: the problems people have with women in power. I’m not one of them.

Thanks,
Vanessa

I just sent off a reply, as follows:

Hi, Vanessa. Thanks for letting me know your thoughts on my piece about your piece (really!).

After reading your message, I went back and read the paragraph in question, and it still comes off to me as I wrote in my article. I do take your point about your writing style, and I can appreciate your feeling that I interpreted an aggressive writer’s “voice” as your own point of view. However, for reasons I lay out below, my view is unchanged.

You say (in your note) that “In any case, the beginning of the paragraph with the word ’shrew’ lays out clearly what the piece is about: the problems people have with women in power. I’m not one of them.”

The paragraph in question begins with this sentence: “There’s a knee-jerk aspect to much of the criticism of Pelosi, of course, because she is the most powerful woman in U.S. political history—and we know what the problem is with that.”

I agree that that sentence signals that what follows is the opinion of people who feel threatened by powerful women, and not your personal opinion — but then comes the second sentence: “But even to liberals, Pelosi can come across as shrill, strident, too rich. Humorless, odd, tone-deaf.” That sentence clearly (to me, at least) implies that what follows is not simply the distorted or biased views of people (men, mostly) who can’t stand powerful women; it’s also the view of “liberals” — Pelosi’s supporters, those who presumably have no problem with women in power. In a word, the second sentence completely undercuts the first. The criticisms of Pelosi you lay out are *not* just the knee-jerk opinions of Washington misogynists; they are widely shared, and indeed have objective legitimacy.

Ultimately, my response to your article is about perception, not factual truth. This is not a fact-checking issue. It may indeed be the case that what you call “topspin” and an aggressive “voice” create an impression that does not accurately reflect your own views. Someone else might very well have a totally different response to the piece (and I’m sure many do). But having carefully re-examined my perceptions in the light of what you say is the approach you take to all your writing subjects, those perceptions remain the same.

I think it’s only fair to you that TMV’s readers know you’ve expressed these views, so I am posting your note to me and my reply in a new post at TMV.

Thank you again for taking the time and trouble to give me this feedback.

Best wishes,

Kathy Kattenburg

I will let you know if Ms. Grigoriadis responds again (and any reply I make).

  • dduck12
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
  • AustinRoth
    Kathy -

    Please don't take this wrong, but TMV is An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right, not your personal blog. This would have been more appropriate there, or something like Facebook, than here, IMO.
  • GeorgeSorwell
    A New York magazine writer decided to reply to a piece Kathy wrote here at TMV.

    It seems like an interesting turn of events to me.

    Thanks for the update, Kathy.
  • JSpencer
    Grigoriadis is definitely backpedaling here. Either she doesn't understand what a powerful tool the creation of perception is these days, or doesn't want to take responsibility for her use of it. Good job on calling her out on it.
  • kathykattenburg
    I respectfully disagree, austin. Vanessa Grigoriadis wrote me about a piece that appear on The Moderate Voice -- a piece about her article, as it happens. Why on earth would I post a response to an article I wrote for TMV, on my own personal blog?

    I'm not sure what you mean by "or something like Facebook," because I did reply to Grigoriadis on Facebook. If you look at the very end of my reply to her, I tell her that I am posting her note to me and my reply to that note on TMV, so that TMV's readers will know how she feels about what I said about her article, in my article that was published on TMV.

    LOL
  • kathykattenburg
    Thanks, JSpencer. I actually thought her note to me was very courteous and respectful, too. I had no problem with it.
  • kathykattenburg
    Thank you, GS. Not to mention the fact that if someone objects to an article I write at TMV, it probably would make sense for me to make that objection known at the same blog where the original article was published.

    Duh.
  • adesnik
    I'm glad to see this post on TMV. A reply from a journalist certainly deserves attention, especially when it is courteous and reasonable. Still, I think Kathy is right. But there is some wiggle room in Grigoriadis' prose -- she wants to have it both ways it seems. Get praise from Pelosi critics, tell Pelosi fans she didn't really say that.
  • kathykattenburg
    Thank you, David. I appreciate that.
  • I, too, find this reaction post from the original subject author to be both interesting and well within the bounds of the blog.

    I can see where Kathy's perceptions came from, just as I can see why Vanessa thinks she was presenting a removed view. I think, though, that it's pretty likely that Kathy's interpretation was the more common, but I also think there's some defensive bias there.

    I'm not a liberal. I disliked the "shrew". But I did relate to the second sentence. One can dislike a powerful woman just because of her mannerisms or personality quirks -- just as one can dislike a woman who does not hold power, or a man.... Doesn't always have to be an attack on feminism, you know.

    OT, everybody -- sorry -- (Kathy -- hope this comment makes sense. Writing from the hospital post-surgery tonight. Meant to respond to your note saying 'welcome back' a few days ago, but it's been crazy)
  • JeffersonDavis
    I read Vanessa's piece and did not get the same vibe as Kathy (big shocker). But I also do not have the insight that many women have on the subject of a double standard with women in power.

    I have both worked for and been married to independent and powerful women. I personally think they are awesome. I have also been the "powerful man" within both professional and marital arenas. But I see where the perception of Nancy Pelosi comes from. It's the emptiness of her eyes and the way she speaks, seemingly with doubt and uncertainty - even when she's talking about positive points.

    There are men that exhibit the same aura about themselves. I truly don't think this is a sexist issue. Politicians are made or broken by the general feeling they give their audience. These feelings are governed by their words, tone, confidence, body language, and overall "look". Let's take Dennis Kucinich, for instance. He's a liberal, but I respect him (unlike Pelosi). Why would that be? For me, it's mainly because he stands up for HIS convictions, not those of his party. However, he suffers from the same afflictions that Pelosi does (as mentioned above). He comes off as cold and distant. The same could be said of Ron Paul. He comes off as "whiney" when he speaks. Pelosi, however, is a party hack with all of these characteristics.
  • Father_Time
    Speaker Pelosi is one of my of which Vanessa Grigoriadis can never be.

    However I have other Heroines such as Amelia Earhart. Some others are listed here:

    http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nwa/heroine.html

    Speaking of Pelosi;

    If she is shrill, fine. Nothing like finger nails on a chalkboard to get your attention.

    If she is strident, well I see that as a quality in a leader, not a fault.

    If she is too rich, fine. Few people of her wealth have ever given a flip for less fortunate Americans than her.

    If she is Humorless. I don't vote for humor. That’s for idiots that need to be loved and accepted by totol strangers.

    Odd? That’s an insult. Please save that for the republican party.

    Tone deaf? For conservadips, I certainly hope so.
  • dduck12
    Redundant Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
  • SteveK
    Redundant Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
    So was your second set of "z"s.

    You are aware that you're not required to read ALL the articles here and you're not required to comment on ANY of them aren't you? Not reading and/or not commenting is O.K.

    Maybe there's an upside to harassing a TMV Author that I'm missing, because any gain in stature from your comment escapes me. If you disagree with the Authors opinion... Disagree with the authors opinion!.. I do that all the time, but your "z"s are not a disagreement and they add nothing to the legitimate subject being discussed.

    To quote another of TMV contributor who uses this ploy... [sigh]
  • dduck12
    I prefer a shorter comment to an article since it may be less abrasive. But if you prefe,r and assuming I have the right to either method, here goes. I found not the article to be a little personal and agree with AR on this.
    However, I don't appreciate your supercilious reply. I do apologize for being redundant.
  • kathykattenburg
    I had no idea you were in the hospital or having surgery, Polimom. I hope your recovery is speedy and smooth. And yes, your comment made sense.
  • kathykattenburg
    So was your second set of "z"s.

    LOL

    To quote another of TMV contributor who uses this ploy... [sigh]

    Oh yeah? Who's that? :-)
  • AustinRoth
    Disagreeing on whether a specific post at TMV does or does not belong here IS expressing an opinion. It may be one you disagree with, but so be it.

    To quote yourself, and with NO humorous attempt this time, You are aware that you're not required to read ALL the articles (posts) here and you're not required to comment on ANY of them aren't you? Not reading and/or not commenting is O.K.

    Good for the goose; good for the gander.
  • SteveK
    comment read
  • SteveK
    I do apologize for being redundant.
    And, I apologize for my supercilious reply to your supercilious comment. Hopefully that doesn't come across as redundant. (or supercilious :-) )
  • DLS
    Things could be worse. Imagine Pelosi as governor of California, and Sacramento going even more leftward.

    (Of course, that means doing Americans everywhere less potential and actual harm, which is good.)
  • dduck12
    Okie, doakey.
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