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	<title>Comments on: Biden, Absolutists,  Irony, and NY-23 (Guest Voice)</title>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51509/biden-absolutists-irony-and-ny-23-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-227797</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51509#comment-227797</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I don&#039;t know...the dems have their faults but at least they aren&#039;t selling drugs to troops and US Citizens and aiding/abetting the enemy on a daily basis.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;That I cannot forgive. I&#039;d forgotten all about the Contra scandal with Bush Sr. and Ronnie [commie-inquisition] Reagan until I overheard a program on Delorian, the car maker who died of his cocaine addiction during that time period. I remember all the cocaine flowing around our community then too in the 80s. I mean, &quot;the cocaine 80s&quot; is a household word. Everyone knew about it. What everyone didn&#039;t know and quite a few people were asking was: how was all this blow getting into the country unfettered? It was everywhere.  In every town and every berg so many people were running around blazed on coke.  That&#039;s a LOT of cocaine.  Way too much for the common border runners to supply..  Basic botanists could tell you the coca plant doesn&#039;t grow in the US at all and any cocaine in this country was imported. Then the news broke about military planes being used to import the coke on orders &#039;from above&quot;.  Who was the designated fall-guy back then.  Oliver North right?  It&#039;s so hard to keep up with the names.  The routine is always the same though..  Just ask Colin Powell.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;The rest is history. The apples in the Bush family have not fallen far from the rotting tree..&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I don&#39;t know&#8230;the dems have their faults but at least they aren&#39;t selling drugs to troops and US Citizens and aiding/abetting the enemy on a daily basis.</p>
<p>That I cannot forgive. I&#39;d forgotten all about the Contra scandal with Bush Sr. and Ronnie [commie-inquisition] Reagan until I overheard a program on Delorian, the car maker who died of his cocaine addiction during that time period. I remember all the cocaine flowing around our community then too in the 80s. I mean, &#8220;the cocaine 80s&#8221; is a household word. Everyone knew about it. What everyone didn&#39;t know and quite a few people were asking was: how was all this blow getting into the country unfettered? It was everywhere.  In every town and every berg so many people were running around blazed on coke.  That&#39;s a LOT of cocaine.  Way too much for the common border runners to supply..  Basic botanists could tell you the coca plant doesn&#39;t grow in the US at all and any cocaine in this country was imported. Then the news broke about military planes being used to import the coke on orders &#39;from above&#8221;.  Who was the designated fall-guy back then.  Oliver North right?  It&#39;s so hard to keep up with the names.  The routine is always the same though..  Just ask Colin Powell.</p>
<p>The rest is history. The apples in the Bush family have not fallen far from the rotting tree..</p>
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		<title>By: ThurmanHart</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51509/biden-absolutists-irony-and-ny-23-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-227719</link>
		<dc:creator>ThurmanHart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51509#comment-227719</guid>
		<description>There are four reasons why I left the Democratic Party today to begin building a liberal wing of the Republican Party.  They are: Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, and the Hudson County Democratic Organization.  If I could add another, it would be Thomas Dewey.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The HCDO is primarily a corrupted organized criminal enterprise.  I can simply no longer stand to be a part of such a group.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Lincoln, from his Peoria speech:&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt; Little by little, but steadily as man&#039;s march to the grave, we have been giving up the OLD for the NEW faith. Near eighty years ago we began by declaring that all men are created equal; but now from that beginning we have run down to the other declaration, that for SOME men to enslave OTHERS is a &quot;sacred right of self-government.&quot; These principles can not stand together. They are as opposite as God and mammon; and whoever holds to the one, must despise the other. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;and:&lt;br&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong...In both cases you are right. In both cases you oppose [expose?] the dangerous extremes. In both you stand on middle ground and hold the ship level and steady...To desert such ground, because of any company, is to be less than a whig—less than a man—less than an American.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Roosevelt, from his first inauguration: &lt;blockquote&gt;Much has been given us, and much will rightfully be expected from us. We have duties to others and duties to ourselves; and we can shirk neither. We have become a great nation, forced by the fact of its greatness into relations with the other nations of the earth, and we must behave as beseems a people with such responsibilities. Toward all other nations, large and small, our attitude must be one of cordial and sincere friendship. We must show not only in our words, but in our deeds, that we are earnestly desirous of securing their goodwill by acting toward them in a spirit of just and generous recognition of all their rights. But justice and generosity in a nation, as in an individual, count most when shown not by the weak but by the strong. While ever careful to refrain from wronging others, we must be no less insistent that we are not wronged ourselves. We wish peace, but we wish the peace of justice, the peace of righteousness. We wish it because we think it is right and not because we are afraid. No weak nation that acts manfully and justly should ever have cause to fear us, and no strong power should ever be able to single us out as a subject for insolent aggression.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Eisenhower, from his 1953 state of the union address: &lt;blockquote&gt;At the outset, I believe it would be well to remind ourselves of this great fundamental in our national life: our common belief that every human being is divinely endowed with dignity and worth and inalienable rights. This faith, with its corollary— that to grow and flourish people must be free—shapes the interests and aspirations of every American. From this deep faith have evolved three main purposes of our Federal Government:&lt;br&gt;First, to maintain justice and freedom among ourselves and to champion them for others so that we may work effectively for enduring peace;&lt;br&gt;Second, to help keep our economy vigorous and expanding, thus sustaining our international strength and assuring better jobs, better living, better opportunities for every citizen;&lt;br&gt;And third, to concern ourselves with the human problems of our people so that every American may have the opportunity to lead a healthy, productive and rewarding life.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Dewey, despite his lousy history as a presidential candidate, defended the right of Americans to form the American Communist Party, saying, &quot;You can&#039;t shoot an idea with a gun.&quot;  He supported the creation of the UN and saw our primary international power as being one of diplomacy.  As a federal prosecutor, he had mercilessly pursued mobsters.  As Governor of New York, he gave state employees a living wage, doubled aid for education, and still managed to pay down state debt.  He passed the country&#039;s first law banning racial discrimination in hiring.  Not only did he play an important part in convincing Eisenhower to run, but he also brought along such men as Herbert Brownell, James Hagerty, and John Foster Dulles.  For both better and worse, he also brought Richard Nixon onto the national stage...which proves no one is perfect, especially Nixon.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The problem with today&#039;s conservatives is that they are simply social reactionaries in the vein of the John Birch Society and the anti-Masonite Whigs.  Scozzafava was good enough for Newt Gingrich to support, and I dare say Ronald Reagan - who faux-conservatives love to compare themselves to - would have as well.  Pro-gay equality isn&#039;t conservative?  What do we do with good old Barry &quot;Mr. Conservative&quot; Goldwater then?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think many of the old lions of conservativism would have trouble fitting in today.  That includes Frank Meyer, whom most couldn&#039;t identify, who coined &quot;fusionism&quot; to unite libertarianism and conservativism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are four reasons why I left the Democratic Party today to begin building a liberal wing of the Republican Party.  They are: Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, and the Hudson County Democratic Organization.  If I could add another, it would be Thomas Dewey.</p>
<p>The HCDO is primarily a corrupted organized criminal enterprise.  I can simply no longer stand to be a part of such a group.</p>
<p>Lincoln, from his Peoria speech:<br />
<blockquote> Little by little, but steadily as man&#39;s march to the grave, we have been giving up the OLD for the NEW faith. Near eighty years ago we began by declaring that all men are created equal; but now from that beginning we have run down to the other declaration, that for SOME men to enslave OTHERS is a &#8220;sacred right of self-government.&#8221; These principles can not stand together. They are as opposite as God and mammon; and whoever holds to the one, must despise the other. </p></blockquote>
<p>and:<br /> <br />
<blockquote>Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong&#8230;In both cases you are right. In both cases you oppose [expose?] the dangerous extremes. In both you stand on middle ground and hold the ship level and steady&#8230;To desert such ground, because of any company, is to be less than a whig—less than a man—less than an American.</p></blockquote>
<p>Roosevelt, from his first inauguration:<br />
<blockquote>Much has been given us, and much will rightfully be expected from us. We have duties to others and duties to ourselves; and we can shirk neither. We have become a great nation, forced by the fact of its greatness into relations with the other nations of the earth, and we must behave as beseems a people with such responsibilities. Toward all other nations, large and small, our attitude must be one of cordial and sincere friendship. We must show not only in our words, but in our deeds, that we are earnestly desirous of securing their goodwill by acting toward them in a spirit of just and generous recognition of all their rights. But justice and generosity in a nation, as in an individual, count most when shown not by the weak but by the strong. While ever careful to refrain from wronging others, we must be no less insistent that we are not wronged ourselves. We wish peace, but we wish the peace of justice, the peace of righteousness. We wish it because we think it is right and not because we are afraid. No weak nation that acts manfully and justly should ever have cause to fear us, and no strong power should ever be able to single us out as a subject for insolent aggression.</p></blockquote>
<p>Eisenhower, from his 1953 state of the union address:<br />
<blockquote>At the outset, I believe it would be well to remind ourselves of this great fundamental in our national life: our common belief that every human being is divinely endowed with dignity and worth and inalienable rights. This faith, with its corollary— that to grow and flourish people must be free—shapes the interests and aspirations of every American. From this deep faith have evolved three main purposes of our Federal Government:<br />First, to maintain justice and freedom among ourselves and to champion them for others so that we may work effectively for enduring peace;<br />Second, to help keep our economy vigorous and expanding, thus sustaining our international strength and assuring better jobs, better living, better opportunities for every citizen;<br />And third, to concern ourselves with the human problems of our people so that every American may have the opportunity to lead a healthy, productive and rewarding life.</p></blockquote>
<p>Dewey, despite his lousy history as a presidential candidate, defended the right of Americans to form the American Communist Party, saying, &#8220;You can&#39;t shoot an idea with a gun.&#8221;  He supported the creation of the UN and saw our primary international power as being one of diplomacy.  As a federal prosecutor, he had mercilessly pursued mobsters.  As Governor of New York, he gave state employees a living wage, doubled aid for education, and still managed to pay down state debt.  He passed the country&#39;s first law banning racial discrimination in hiring.  Not only did he play an important part in convincing Eisenhower to run, but he also brought along such men as Herbert Brownell, James Hagerty, and John Foster Dulles.  For both better and worse, he also brought Richard Nixon onto the national stage&#8230;which proves no one is perfect, especially Nixon.</p>
<p>The problem with today&#39;s conservatives is that they are simply social reactionaries in the vein of the John Birch Society and the anti-Masonite Whigs.  Scozzafava was good enough for Newt Gingrich to support, and I dare say Ronald Reagan &#8211; who faux-conservatives love to compare themselves to &#8211; would have as well.  Pro-gay equality isn&#39;t conservative?  What do we do with good old Barry &#8220;Mr. Conservative&#8221; Goldwater then?</p>
<p>I think many of the old lions of conservativism would have trouble fitting in today.  That includes Frank Meyer, whom most couldn&#39;t identify, who coined &#8220;fusionism&#8221; to unite libertarianism and conservativism.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51509/biden-absolutists-irony-and-ny-23-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-227690</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51509#comment-227690</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is why the GOP, if it is to have any success, must not simply hope for Democratic failure, but must create and articulate a series of core principles and positive plans for action if it is to have any chance at regaining the national electorate.&quot;&lt;br&gt;*******&lt;br&gt;Yes, but they&#039;ve already gutted those principles erstwhile adherants hold dear under the &quot;republican&quot; label.  That&#039;s why the same old rotting, foul, malignant, amoral darlings have made it their strategy to berth their new regime under the label &quot;conservative&quot;.  Whatever works.  Ironically, using &quot;whatever works&quot; is diametrically opposed to the moral foundation of those they are trying to woo.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The solution is of course to become a party of actual morality instead of utter debauchery and greed masquerading as morality via the word &quot;conservative&quot;.  Real christians, jews and people of other good faiths of all descriptions realize what a hypocrite is.  And they, by the time they&#039;re 12, have been told that hyopcrites and those that support them don&#039;t go to that nice fluffy place in the sky when they die.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Pretty simple stuff.  You either walk the walk or walk the plank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is why the GOP, if it is to have any success, must not simply hope for Democratic failure, but must create and articulate a series of core principles and positive plans for action if it is to have any chance at regaining the national electorate.&#8221;<br />*******<br />Yes, but they&#39;ve already gutted those principles erstwhile adherants hold dear under the &#8220;republican&#8221; label.  That&#39;s why the same old rotting, foul, malignant, amoral darlings have made it their strategy to berth their new regime under the label &#8220;conservative&#8221;.  Whatever works.  Ironically, using &#8220;whatever works&#8221; is diametrically opposed to the moral foundation of those they are trying to woo.</p>
<p>The solution is of course to become a party of actual morality instead of utter debauchery and greed masquerading as morality via the word &#8220;conservative&#8221;.  Real christians, jews and people of other good faiths of all descriptions realize what a hypocrite is.  And they, by the time they&#39;re 12, have been told that hyopcrites and those that support them don&#39;t go to that nice fluffy place in the sky when they die.</p>
<p>Pretty simple stuff.  You either walk the walk or walk the plank.</p>
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		<title>By: tidbits</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51509/biden-absolutists-irony-and-ny-23-guest-voice/comment-page-1/#comment-227689</link>
		<dc:creator>tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51509#comment-227689</guid>
		<description>Questions for the author:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1.  What is conservatism today?  There are at least three factions vying for that mantel, traditional/economic, neocon, and religious right, with perhaps a fourth in the libertarians.  To which do you subscribe, or do you have an amalgam definition that attempts to meld the three/four.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2.  What are the &quot;core principles&quot; of Republicanism that are inviolate, keeping in mind the three/four tracks of conservatism identified in question one?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3.  As Polymom asked yesterday, on what issues would you permit candidates to &quot;stray&quot; and how far would they be allowed to stray while being allowed to remain within either the Republican Party or the conservative fold as you define those entities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Questions for the author:</p>
<p>1.  What is conservatism today?  There are at least three factions vying for that mantel, traditional/economic, neocon, and religious right, with perhaps a fourth in the libertarians.  To which do you subscribe, or do you have an amalgam definition that attempts to meld the three/four.</p>
<p>2.  What are the &#8220;core principles&#8221; of Republicanism that are inviolate, keeping in mind the three/four tracks of conservatism identified in question one?</p>
<p>3.  As Polymom asked yesterday, on what issues would you permit candidates to &#8220;stray&#8221; and how far would they be allowed to stray while being allowed to remain within either the Republican Party or the conservative fold as you define those entities?</p>
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