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	<title>Comments on: Pat Robertson Is Not Happy About Hate Crimes Bill</title>
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		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227183</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227183</guid>
		<description>In many communities law enforcement officials still do not take the plight of gay victims seriously. Until they do, we need a hate crimes bill.&lt;br&gt;I compare it to the fight for civil rights in the deep South during the 60&#039;s. Everyone was supposedly equal under the law, but in practical terms, it was only enforced for white victims. Black lynchings and other crimes were not investigated fully or prosecuted fully unless they were retried under federal law. The murderers of Medgar Evers, Emmett Till and many others were acquitted by all white juries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In many communities law enforcement officials still do not take the plight of gay victims seriously. Until they do, we need a hate crimes bill.<br />I compare it to the fight for civil rights in the deep South during the 60&#39;s. Everyone was supposedly equal under the law, but in practical terms, it was only enforced for white victims. Black lynchings and other crimes were not investigated fully or prosecuted fully unless they were retried under federal law. The murderers of Medgar Evers, Emmett Till and many others were acquitted by all white juries.</p>
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		<title>By: Dissenting Justice</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227074</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissenting Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227074</guid>
		<description>The law always treats certain crimes more seriously than others --- because of the harrm that they cause to larger groups of people.  For example, stealing 20 bucks in a mugging at gunpoint has different penalties than stealing 20 bucks during an attempted armed bank robbery.  The same amount of money, same behavior, highly different penalty structure. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Certain murders are more likely to receive the death penalty than others; in fact, the Supreme Court (and thus every state) requires that juries list &quot;aggravating&quot; factors that led them to impose the death penalty.  So, one murder may get a life sentence, while another gets the death penalty.  Why? Because the aggravating factors are seen as presenting a greater harm to society.  The law in every state  treats &quot;cop-killing&quot; as death eligible.  Mutilation is an aggravating factor. Killing a very young person is an aggravating factor.  Killing more than one person is an aggravating factor, etc.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Similarly, killing people because of religion, sexuality, etc., causes harms that extend beyond one person and that individual&#039;s immediate community.  Others who share the characteristic are chilled due to the crimre.  There are tons of psychological and criminal law literature on this subject. Even the Supreme Corut has ruled on the issue -- in a case validating an enhanced penalty for a black man who selected a white victim due to race.   See Mitchell v Wisconsin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The law always treats certain crimes more seriously than others &#8212; because of the harrm that they cause to larger groups of people.  For example, stealing 20 bucks in a mugging at gunpoint has different penalties than stealing 20 bucks during an attempted armed bank robbery.  The same amount of money, same behavior, highly different penalty structure. </p>
<p>Certain murders are more likely to receive the death penalty than others; in fact, the Supreme Court (and thus every state) requires that juries list &#8220;aggravating&#8221; factors that led them to impose the death penalty.  So, one murder may get a life sentence, while another gets the death penalty.  Why? Because the aggravating factors are seen as presenting a greater harm to society.  The law in every state  treats &#8220;cop-killing&#8221; as death eligible.  Mutilation is an aggravating factor. Killing a very young person is an aggravating factor.  Killing more than one person is an aggravating factor, etc.  </p>
<p>Similarly, killing people because of religion, sexuality, etc., causes harms that extend beyond one person and that individual&#39;s immediate community.  Others who share the characteristic are chilled due to the crimre.  There are tons of psychological and criminal law literature on this subject. Even the Supreme Corut has ruled on the issue &#8212; in a case validating an enhanced penalty for a black man who selected a white victim due to race.   See Mitchell v Wisconsin.</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227018</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227018</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV: Pat Robertson Is Not Happy About Hate Crimes Bill: Another freedom has been taken away from him:

Yesterday on the C... http://bit.ly/2UliTO...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV: Pat Robertson Is Not Happy About Hate Crimes Bill: Another freedom has been taken away from him:</p>
<p>Yesterday on the C&#8230; <a href="http://bit.ly/2UliTO.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/2UliTO..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227073</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227073</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227069</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227069</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227064</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227064</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227019</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227019</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227047</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227047</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227045</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227045</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227043</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227043</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-227035</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-227035</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-226994</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226994</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-226985</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226985</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-226965</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226965</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-226934</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226934</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-226951</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226951</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-2/#comment-226933</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226933</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-226932</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 05:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226932</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes to start coming down? Or is this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-226928</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 05:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226928</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes start coming down? Or this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes start coming down? Or this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51272/pat-robertson-is-not-happy-about-hate-crimes-bill/comment-page-1/#comment-226925</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 05:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51272#comment-226925</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holly in Cinncinnati&#039;s post&lt;/A&gt; back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#039;m willing to do so again, but I&#039;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at &lt;A href=&quot;http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act&quot; rel=nofollow rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog&lt;/A&gt;. I&#039;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#039;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;So I&#039;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say &lt;I&gt;benefit&lt;/I&gt;, I&#039;m talking about &lt;I&gt;tangible&lt;/I&gt; benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes start coming down? Or this simply a bunch of &quot;feel good&quot; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;&lt;/BR&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#39;ve gone over this debate again and again and again, going back to <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">Holly in Cinncinnati&#39;s post</a> back in May 2007. It was a very spirited debate back then, and we must have had at least 10 very spirited debates on hate crimes legislation since then. I&#39;m willing to do so again, but I&#39;m beginning to doubt whether anyone is really getting anything out of these debates, as they seem to rehash the same points over and over again.</p>
<p>I personally oppose hate crimes legislation, but I feel that I have at least some understanding of where supporters of hate crime legislation are coming from considering that I was once a staunch supporter of such legislation (and as a civil libertarian, continue to be a supporter of most gay rights).</p>
<p>I have offered my comprehensive 4 1/2 page position on this subject, both here at TMV and over at <a href="http://themoderatevoice.com/12602/letter-to-my-congressman-on-llehcpa-hr1592-hate-crimes-prevention-act" rel=nofollow rel="nofollow">my blog</a>. I&#39;d be willing to clarify any part of my position that others find confusing, but it&#39;s probably a waste of time and space to repost the entire post here.</p>
<p>So I&#39;ll simply ask supporters of hate crimes legislation: What does this legislation accomplish? How do gays or lesbians or any other discriminated group benefit from this legislation? And when I say <i>benefit</i>, I&#39;m talking about <i>tangible</i> benefits that can be measured empirically? Does this legislation offer any tangible benefits for gays or lesbians? Should we expect hate crimes start coming down? Or this simply a bunch of &#8220;feel good&#8221; legislation passed by a bunch of armchair politicians who are merely pandering to gays and lesbians?</p>
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