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	<title>Comments on: James Arthur Ray, Cult or No? How Cults Operate</title>
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		<title>By: redbus</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226514</link>
		<dc:creator>redbus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51057#comment-226514</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The cults never seem to have merciful outreach to the poor, or the ill, the homeless, or the needy. Despite the cult’s huge wealth centered in the leader, the cult is turned in on itself instead.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I suspect that this observation is accurate in most cases. Even in cases where so-called &quot;cults&quot; show acts of compassion, one needs to ask: &lt;i&gt;What is the motivation behind this act?&lt;/i&gt;  wonder if the lack of merciful acts test could be applied to the more fundamentalist groups in mainline religions as well? From a Christian perspective, ideally, a Christian acts mercifully because it is part of who he or she is, and not because it will help to win a convert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The cults never seem to have merciful outreach to the poor, or the ill, the homeless, or the needy. Despite the cult’s huge wealth centered in the leader, the cult is turned in on itself instead.</p></blockquote>
<p>I suspect that this observation is accurate in most cases. Even in cases where so-called &#8220;cults&#8221; show acts of compassion, one needs to ask: <i>What is the motivation behind this act?</i>  wonder if the lack of merciful acts test could be applied to the more fundamentalist groups in mainline religions as well? From a Christian perspective, ideally, a Christian acts mercifully because it is part of who he or she is, and not because it will help to win a convert.</p>
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		<title>By: spirasol</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226288</link>
		<dc:creator>spirasol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was thinking of the video of &quot;The Secret&quot; also championed by Oprah as a primer.  I watched it, had nothing against ancient laws of manifestation, but now the focus is narrowed to material wealth. I couldn&#039;t watch to the end, disgusted as I became.   No cult there, just buy the film (and the makers of the film are very wealthy now as millions bought it) and watch at your leisure at home.  However a small cottage industry evolved around with others promising to help you to manifest your financial goals....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking of the video of &#8220;The Secret&#8221; also championed by Oprah as a primer.  I watched it, had nothing against ancient laws of manifestation, but now the focus is narrowed to material wealth. I couldn&#39;t watch to the end, disgusted as I became.   No cult there, just buy the film (and the makers of the film are very wealthy now as millions bought it) and watch at your leisure at home.  However a small cottage industry evolved around with others promising to help you to manifest your financial goals&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Leebot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226225</link>
		<dc:creator>Leebot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is an excellent and comprehensive list -- it could easily be adapted to &quot;How To Tell If You&#039;re In An Abusive Relationship.&quot;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t know the extent the word &quot;cult&quot; applies to Mr. Ray or how closely connected his followers are to him (although I read somewhere that for an even more exorbitant price, followers can partake of &quot;all things Ray&quot; for an entire year).  But based on your list I think a case could be made for the Warrior Retreat as a microcosm of a cult like experience.  I have to admit that as tempting as it may be to say &quot;I would never let that happen to me&quot; for whatever reason, the frightening reality -- the bit that has been in the back of my mind for the past few days -- is how very vulnerable we can be, how frighteningly effective these tactics of psychological manipulation, exploitation and control can work on even the most self-possessed.  While the Warrior type retreat would not appeal to me (and my body does not tolerate heat well), I did once inexplicably buy a $1,000+ vacuum cleaner.  I wasn&#039;t eager to at the beginning of the sales pitch, but I wasn&#039;t prepared for the tightly scripted textbook-case routine, the nuts and bolts of which I ruefully saw only in retrospect.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;One part that is especially disturbing is the kind of Turbo-Charged Emotional Excavation. Does he think this is patty-cake?  This just makes me angry, and aching for the grief and depression you describe.  Someone earlier used the word Trickster and it seems very apt here -- I sense a kind of sadistic emotional vampire behind the persona.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent and comprehensive list &#8212; it could easily be adapted to &#8220;How To Tell If You&#39;re In An Abusive Relationship.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I don&#39;t know the extent the word &#8220;cult&#8221; applies to Mr. Ray or how closely connected his followers are to him (although I read somewhere that for an even more exorbitant price, followers can partake of &#8220;all things Ray&#8221; for an entire year).  But based on your list I think a case could be made for the Warrior Retreat as a microcosm of a cult like experience.  I have to admit that as tempting as it may be to say &#8220;I would never let that happen to me&#8221; for whatever reason, the frightening reality &#8212; the bit that has been in the back of my mind for the past few days &#8212; is how very vulnerable we can be, how frighteningly effective these tactics of psychological manipulation, exploitation and control can work on even the most self-possessed.  While the Warrior type retreat would not appeal to me (and my body does not tolerate heat well), I did once inexplicably buy a $1,000+ vacuum cleaner.  I wasn&#39;t eager to at the beginning of the sales pitch, but I wasn&#39;t prepared for the tightly scripted textbook-case routine, the nuts and bolts of which I ruefully saw only in retrospect.  </p>
<p>One part that is especially disturbing is the kind of Turbo-Charged Emotional Excavation. Does he think this is patty-cake?  This just makes me angry, and aching for the grief and depression you describe.  Someone earlier used the word Trickster and it seems very apt here &#8212; I sense a kind of sadistic emotional vampire behind the persona.</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226164</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>thanks Christopher, I made an error. Just fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Christopher, I made an error. Just fixed.</p>
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		<title>By: christopherfoxgraham</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226147</link>
		<dc:creator>christopherfoxgraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The 50+ participants paid $9,000 minimum, so the the total is over $450,000, not $4,500,000, which would have been if he charged $90,000 per head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 50+ participants paid $9,000 minimum, so the the total is over $450,000, not $4,500,000, which would have been if he charged $90,000 per head.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226102</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The cult trappings are probably a by-product; to me the central issue is that he is a New Age celebrity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cult trappings are probably a by-product; to me the central issue is that he is a New Age celebrity.</p>
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		<title>By: spirasol</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226068</link>
		<dc:creator>spirasol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Do you mean Ray is running a cult or do you mean he is a member/victim of the for profit new age enlightenment overnight movement? While our external elders model unparalleled greed in a system where we have removed the road signs encouraging caution and the laws no longer regulate the speed or the weight of capitalist carriage.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Do members who meet and go home and may or may not sign up for more qualify for having succumbed to a cult?  I don&#039;t rightly see how he fits into the usual model.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is not the kind of workshop I would be attending, but there are hundreds if not thousands of workshops all across the country teaching people how to make more, get more, live more.  And it would appear to be in sync with the prevailing zeitgeist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you mean Ray is running a cult or do you mean he is a member/victim of the for profit new age enlightenment overnight movement? While our external elders model unparalleled greed in a system where we have removed the road signs encouraging caution and the laws no longer regulate the speed or the weight of capitalist carriage.  </p>
<p>Do members who meet and go home and may or may not sign up for more qualify for having succumbed to a cult?  I don&#39;t rightly see how he fits into the usual model.  </p>
<p>It is not the kind of workshop I would be attending, but there are hundreds if not thousands of workshops all across the country teaching people how to make more, get more, live more.  And it would appear to be in sync with the prevailing zeitgeist.</p>
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		<title>By: tidbits</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226055</link>
		<dc:creator>tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Very informative.  Thank you.  Ray&#039;s personal conduct strikes me as self serving and reprehensible, but I confess that I do not now enough about how Ray&#039;s treatment of those who &quot;bought&quot; into his philosophy fits into the criteria you set out.  Perhaps others with more information, beyond what happened in Sedona, can enlighten me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very informative.  Thank you.  Ray&#39;s personal conduct strikes me as self serving and reprehensible, but I confess that I do not now enough about how Ray&#39;s treatment of those who &#8220;bought&#8221; into his philosophy fits into the criteria you set out.  Perhaps others with more information, beyond what happened in Sedona, can enlighten me.</p>
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		<title>By: More Clarissa Pinkola Estes on James Arthur Ray &#171; Arthur Goldwag</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226061</link>
		<dc:creator>More Clarissa Pinkola Estes on James Arthur Ray &#171; Arthur Goldwag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Comments  Was Ray a cultist? He sure acted like one, writes Clarissa Pinkola Estes, in her second post on Ray in The Moderate Voice. Estes has studied cult-formation in conjunction with her therapeutic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Comments  Was Ray a cultist? He sure acted like one, writes Clarissa Pinkola Estes, in her second post on Ray in The Moderate Voice. Estes has studied cult-formation in conjunction with her therapeutic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Arthur Ray, Cult or No? How Cults Operate &#124; Secured Loans</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/51057/james-arthur-ray-cult-or-no-how-cults-operate/comment-page-1/#comment-226037</link>
		<dc:creator>James Arthur Ray, Cult or No? How Cults Operate &#124; Secured Loans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=51057#comment-226037</guid>
		<description>[...] See more here:  James Arthur Ray, Cult or No? How Cults Operate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] See more here:  James Arthur Ray, Cult or No? How Cults Operate [...]</p>
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