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A Tax on Red Meat? Oh No You Don’t.

redmeat.jpgI wouldn’t have even noticed this article from Peter Singer at the New York Daily News today had I not heard about it on both CNN and MSNBC first. (The frequently preachy Mika Brzezinski was going off on yet another tangent about how there should be a tax on red meat to offset the damage that diners are doing to themselves and the health care system. None of this seems to encourage her to want to tax her own regular diet of Absolut and Ambien, though.)

The author begins by attempting to draw some sort of parallel between taxes on cigarettes and soda to the need for taxing red meat.

But in all these moves against tobacco, transfats and sodas, we’ve been ignoring the cow in the room.

That’s right, cow. We don’t eat elephants. But the reasons for a tax on beef and other meats are stronger than those for discouraging consumption of cigarettes, transfats or sugary drinks.

We are then treated to a list of the various ills caused by beef which will be reduced or eliminated if only the nanny state will come in and tax the Purchase of Tasty Animals. (PETA) These include health hazards from consumption, cruelty to animals, water table contamination, reducing agricultural runoff and greenhouse gas emissions.

Of course, in reality, (or what little remains of it today) I don’t think you could find any real support in Congress for such a move. It would be a political poison pill. But then again, had you told me ten years ago that cities would be banning fois gras, I’d have laughed in your face. Even if we don’t see such a thing on a federal level, states such as New York and California could easily entertain such a notion.

Food staples have historically been something that the government is supposed to keep its paws off of when it comes to taxes. The basic ability to feed and cloth yourself should not be hampered by the long arm of the tax man. If this effort to turn us into a nation of tofu gobbling vegans gains enough traction to the point where one of the four basic food groups is looked upon as a poisonous plague, we will have crossed over the rainbow bridge indeed.

Tax my steak and you’ll have fired the first shot in a very uncivil ideological battle indeed.

  • Silhouette
    The reason this "scary" piece even gets air time is because it tries to galvanize the meat and potatoes crowd just before this election.

    Red meat, unlike soda, alcohol and tobacco, has real actual nutritional benefits in moderation. B-12, protein, iron, trace minerals and more are in good beef, lamb, pork and so on.

    The only things that will be taxed are items with no nutritional value, or excessive sugar which nobody disputes will lead to diabetes and the serious health issues stemming from the complications of diabetes.

    The soda tax is perfect. The stuff is pure poison from a health standpoint and yet people drink it in excess. So when the little soccer mom comes on the commercial everyone has seen and gets all huffy about soda taxes for the poor people just trying to get by, you can pat her on the back and assure her we're pulling for her kids in the photo who we don't want [and we assume "she" doesn't want] to get sick from diabetes. Giving her a disincentive is EXACTLY the idea. Duh..lol..



  • tidbits
    Soda tax, meat tax, increase in tobacco tax, alcohol tax.

    Here's my question: What mechanisms will put in place for people to prove that they make less than $250,000 a year to exempt them from these taxes so Obama can keep his pledge that people making less than 250k will not see their taxes increase? Will the IRS make tax records available to the local Safeway or will it be up to the individual taxpayer to prove he/she is exempt? Will he/she also have to prove compliance with the mandate to purchase health insurance to qualify?

  • DLS
    Jazz, this isn't surprising. I've suspected that the far-left fringe would want to tax meat (not limited to fast food meat dishes, either). This is separate from what is related food-fad fringist nonsense, taxes on calories or on fat content, et cetera.

    There actually are activists who would want to "punish" meat because it's "sinful" and goes far beyond not only any kind of philosophical kinds of argumentation that vegetarians and vegans can make about meat against meat (and in favor of a "plant-based diet," to use the contemporary faddish phrase for it), but environmental and US-hating far-left fringists can make against meat not only as a US gluttonous lifesyle demon, but against an environmentalists' demon (not only heavy use of water and plants to make meat, but now with deforestation and of course contribution to "global warming" and related nonsense).

    I prefer an older, intellectually-superior concept that can be employed dispassionately about this, while also stating the obvious about policy.

    Meat is a premium food, and should be viewed as such.

    The Western world can afford premium food, which is true progress. The rest of the world wants it, too.

    There is no excuse for taxes as an instrument of mentally-ill, extremist political policy action, nor an excuse to intrude into personal lives (especially in the USA by the federal government, which should be as removed as possible from individuals -- it is not our parent or the Devil who owns our souls!) nor as an excuse (using contemptible "reasoning") for oppressive tax policy.
  • DLS
    90-plus per cent (more like 99-plus per cent, it seems) of food poisonings involve meat, milk, eggs, fish -- animal biologicals. That is something vegeterians and vegans avoid. The proper response to this is relief rather than smugness or a view that others not so enlightened are evil. Also proper is insistence on better sanitation and food safety practices, which includes an end to stupid anti-technological, anti-science, anti-progress attitudes in the case of food irradiation, which is an excellent spoilage control method.
  • DLS
    "What mechanisms will put in place for people to prove that they make less than $250,000 a year to exempt them from these taxes so Obama can keep his pledge that people making less than 250k will not see their taxes increase?"

    Proponents of a meat tax would want no exemptions -- and they view the poor who eat a lot of meat as especially contemptible or at least in great need of "re-education" and "behavioral reform."

    Hopefully nobody wants so totalitarian a government that it monitors (and approves or punishes) spending decisions and other details of your personal life. Yeech. It's the conspiracists' scenario, using a "national ID card" as a debit card, that coordinates all purchases out of Washington (or its satellite facilities throughout the nation) and approves or disapproves, taxes (at whatever rate) all people's purchases based on their income (or their race if "affirmative action taxation" applies, etc.).
  • roro80
    Ah, tidbits, you know that just because some "ethicist" is calling for meat taxes doesn't mean Obama or Congress or anyone else is calling for it. It's like the poll I saw the other day asking if you think Obama should shut down Fox News. It's like asking answering a question that's not being asked. It was an idea of one person.

    Heck, for that matter, I've had little fantasies about what would happen if everyone in American went vegan tomorrow, and I'm guessing it would be awesome once everyone realized how gross hamburgers are and always have been, when they see their energy shoot through the roof, once they see their weight plummet, once they see how many more people can be fed on so much less, once they see how much better the enviornment is. But we all know that's not going to happen!

    On the other hand, they've been taxing the heck out of my vice (cigarettes) for ages. Maybe it's time someone else picked up the slack. (mostly kidding on that one...)
  • roro80
    "That is something vegeterians and vegans avoid."

    That is, until they start spreading cow poo around my spinach.
  • tidbits
    In response to my prior comment, DLS said "Proponents of a meat tax would want no exemptions".

    For anyone who may have missed it, my comment about exemptions for those making under $250,000 was sarcasm. I may be dumb as an earthworm, but even earthworms aren't dumb enough to believe there would be exemptions to a meat tax.
  • Zzzzz
    Well... I think there are two ways you can look at this. You can look as this as an attempt by nanny-state liberals to force God-loving meat and potato Americans to eat some liberal fascist diet or you can see this as an inefficient effort for the government to take back some of its food subsidies. Personally, I think the ideal solution is for those ridiculous subsidies on corn and sugar to be scaled back dramatically. Liberals are happy, because the prices of all cr@ppy artificial foods and meat go up dramatically. Fiscal conservatives are happy, because a holes in the budget get plugged both on the farm subsidy and healcare ends. The only people who aren't happy are the people who like to pretend like they are fiscally conservative and like their lifestyle isn't being subsidized by the government... and also people who prefer to have their lifestyles subsidized the government.
  • DLS
    "even earthworms aren't dumb enough to believe there would be exemptions to a meat tax."

    Anything is possible with the kind of politics related to such issues as Demon Meat and Lifestyle Social Engineering.

    And you owe the earthworms an apology. Activists would consider you to be anthropocentric.
  • DLS
    "Personally, I think the ideal solution is for those ridiculous subsidies on corn and sugar to be scaled back dramatically."

    Kill them.

    As for the meat, there is an anti-meat fringe and there is an "anti-gluttony" fringe, separate fringe groups (which may overlap in practice in Fringe Territory).
  • Zzzzz
    Kill them.

    I would love them scaled back to zero, but Iowa owns both parties and it isn't going to happen. Any amount they are scaled back would have me jumping for joy. Only in America would we use tax payer dollars to subsidize food that makes you sick.
  • tidbits
    roro80 -

    Why do I attract vegans? One of my best friends is vegan. She has one exception. As a gifted athlete, she still has a leather softball glove. Helluva shortstop/thirdbaseperson and an A/Open raquetball player...most importantly, a great person.

    Lunch time. Gotta go get a hot dog & a Pepsi (before the tax kicks in).

    Later,
    tidbits
  • I think that taxing any food at all is rediculous. Is this the way we expect to dig ourselves out of the economic hole we're in? If so, we're doomed and everybody's going to go broke from being taxed to death!

    -Nikki-
  • "One of my best friends is vegan. She has one exception. As a gifted athlete, she still has a leather softball glove. "

    SHE HATES COWS! KEEEEEEEEEEEEL HER!
  • shannonlee
    Ahh, red meat, why do you make a hypocrite out of me?!?!?!?

    It isn't good for me. It takes a lot of energy and grain to raise a cow, not to mention the carbon footprint.

    People are starving all over the world...can't afford grain, yet I eat a cow that first must eat a village worth of grain before it can be slaughtered for my enjoyment.

    sigh...I do love a nice KC strip.





  • AustinRoth
    Then she is vegetarian, not a vegan.
  • tidbits
    Nah, AR, she's vegan. It's an old glove that she had before she got the vegan religion 7 or 8 years ago. She won't buy anything leather, won't get a car with leather seats, objects to people who play flute, because flutes use fish "something or other", writes vegan editorials and letters to the editor. I'll give her a pass on the glove, though it's an interesting little hypocricy. I'l have to ask her next time we talk if the softballs in her league are leather wrap. It'll give me sometihng to give her a hard time about, knowing she'll give it back just as good.
  • AustinRoth
    Flutes? Flutes?? Flutes are 100% solid metal. Professional flutes are solid silver, in fact. The pads covering the various holes are made of cork and felt. Nothing remotely animal there. Someone steered her wrong on that one!

    btw - you are probably correct on the softball having a leather cover, too.
  • Father_Time
    Oh YES tax red meat!

    Double the tax on fast food and syrupy sugar water beverages!

    However end income tax on restaurant workers tips and make it illegal for a restaurant owner to take or force sharing of tips.

    Hey we need to pay back our loans from Communist China. (thank you George Bush).
  • Father_Time
    Fine then you pay the Communist China back.
  • tidbits
    You're probably right. Maybe it wasn't flutes. I'll ask & get back to you sometime.
  • Father_Time
    He is taking about INCOME TAX.

    What you are describing is SALES TAX.

    You have no idea what the national debt actually is do you? You have no idea what instrument it is held in. You have no idea whom it is owed too or when it is due.

    The healthcare reform Tax Rise will be placed upon those with the highest 1.5% income. That’s income in the dozens of millions and up. The $250,000 a year is jack nothing by comparison and will never see the healthcare reform tax rise, but will see a more modest tax rise. (apparently).
  • archangel
    red meat is cultural in part I think. I come from that culture. It's called elk, deer, and bear. Way back when... if the larger animals had gone high north on migration routes, then squirrel, possum, rattlesnake. I laugh when people say rattlesnake is a delicacy. They must have grown up in a high rise. At my uncle's house, it was Oh no, not diamondback again!!

    You'd try to bag the bigger animals, more blood, more marrow, more meat, especially marrow and blood. I have never seen on any menu, fancy or plain restaurant, the items of blood and marrow we ate as a matter of course when we were children. It was considered strength and medicine.

    I respect what others wish to eat, or have no choices about. But I dont look askance at people who are vegans or ovolacto (did I spell that right?) or else. I dont find that always true coming from the other direction.

    The part of hunting for meat that is missing in some, however, seems to be respect for the creatures... all of them all along the pursuit of one. It may be part of what is missing in cattle raised in feed lots too.
  • Father_Time
    KC strip? What's that?

    Never heard of a "KC" strip.

    New York strip I've heard of, but "KC"....nope.

    Is that like kitchen cut or kremlin cut or karmel corn or.....?
  • Father_Time
    "seems to be respect for the creatures"--

    lol

    You gotta be kidding....

    Respect? The Universe don't "respect".......
  • shannonlee
    New York City!!!!!!

    Get a rope.
  • archangel
    no, not kidding father time.

    there's a difference between hunting, and shooting birds out of the trees as target practice.
  • Leonidas
    (If you drive a car car), I’ll tax the street,
    (If you try to sit sit), I’ll tax your seat,
    (If you get too cold cold), I’ll tax the heat,
    (If you take a walk walk), I’ll tax your feet.
    Taxman.
  • Dr J
    Hey we need to pay back our loans from Communist China. (thank you George Bush).

    The healthcare reform Tax Rise will be placed upon those with the highest 1.5% income. That’s income in the dozens of millions and up.

    Father Time, I don't think your credibility could be in sorrier shape if you dragged it out and beat it against rocks. I'm no fan of Mr. Bush, but the facts are that Mr. Obama will be borrowing much more from China, and $250K is enough to win you a place among the top 1.5% of households.
  • AustinRoth
    Actually, in less than one year in office, Obama HAS borrowed more from China than the entire 8 years of Bush. And he is only about 5% - 10% of the way along his deficit spending.

    I have said for years that Republicans had no more fiscal control than Democrats. Boy, was I wrong! Republicans do not have fiscal control either, but it is like speeding on the highway. The Republicans go 15 - 20 MPH above the limit; the Democrats go 2 -3 times the limit!

    :)
  • Father_Time
    Yeah, so, why not?

    The European's tax is higher than ours and so is their standard of living because of it. You are just not catching on are ya? Try taking a look around.
  • Father_Time
    Oh please Wiki????

    Eat...https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

    ya bug eyed conservapinko....
  • Father_Time
    I'm not going to disagree....

    ....too busy hanging on for the corners....

    ....where we go'n so fast anyway....?
  • Father_Time
    Two months ago I murdered a whole family of raccoons. Momma, papa and two crappy little brats with my daddy's old 22 auto.

    nuisance critters.

    Believe me I showed no respect. Tossed their carcasses in a land fill like they never existed.

    Ha!
  • Dr J
    Don't know what you meant to link from the CIA or why you'd think they'd be authoritative on US income, but the IRS reports the same thing. Of the 110,522,670 household returns they received in 2007, 1,040,998 (0.94%) made $500K or more, and only 0.14% made $2M or more. Your numbers are off by a factor of 10.
  • BeaElliott
    Well... at the very least - If your red meat cannot be taxed - in all fairness, can I withdraw all my VEGAN money from the meat subsidies & from animal agriculture? Can I reserve my share of health costs to not cover illnesses related to an omnivore diet? Can I withhold my "contribution" to government bailouts to the pork industry? To the dairy industry? Fair is fair. Let the true cost of burgers, chops and wings be seen! Eliminate the grant money to animal agriculture! Demand that the animal "farmers" pay for the destruction to ground water and eco system! Stop the sponsership of "research" in the meat "sciences"! End the cattle grazing on public lands at pennies an acre! No. I didn't think so. No one wants to pay the true cost of flesh without Uncle Sam's handouts... Sickening isn't it?
  • archangel
    when we teach boy scouts at the range for their shooting badges, we use NRA standards toward teaching about animals including those that intrude. The attitude is that if in your judgement you have to kill, and not for meat, then one does it clean, with no crowing, and with various ways of handling the animal's body afterward that make it safe for other humans and other animals, esp if the animal is diseased, or might be.

    ps fathertime, some people liked your poem over on the other article. go see.
  • DLS
    "when we teach boy scouts at the range for their shooting badges,"

    Thank God, sanity still prevails somewhere.

    And you're right about the hunting. Not just the respect for the quarry, but the stalking and other effort (which is why bowhunters value what they do), which doesn't even require a gun; a camera does it, too.
  • DLS
    "It isn't good for me. It takes a lot of energy and grain to raise a cow, not to mention the carbon footprint."

    "Carbon" is a false demon of environmental extremism ("global warming" or "climate change" religion).

    It's safe to say that it requires heavy use of resources like water and plants (food-chain climbing), which is another reason besides its mere richness why I say it should be viewed in the old-fashioned way, as a premium food.
  • BVegan
    A meat diet is not clearly good for our health and for the environment. Please check this out:

    http://www.worldwatch.org/files/pdf/Livestock%2...
  • archangel
    thank you DLS. Bowhunters. What ruth hunters, usually.
  • "90-plus per cent (more like 99-plus per cent, it seems) of food poisonings involve meat, milk, eggs, fish -- animal biologicals. That is something vegeterians and vegans avoid."

    You're kidding right? Vegans and vegeterians have been the ones hit HARDEST lately with all the e-coli scares - or have you forgotten all of the tainted lettuce, tomatoes and peppers of the last two summers? That is why I grow my own. Too many big growers using organic fecal matter to fertilize their crops!

    LL
  • "The European's tax is higher than ours and so is their standard of living because of it."

    Speaking as someone who has actually LIVED in Europe (and not just read either sides propaganda about it) you are dead wrong Father Time. Our standard of living is much higher than just about any country in Europe - except maybe Ireland's.....

    LL
  • "can I withdraw all my VEGAN money from the meat subsidies & from animal agriculture? "

    And can those who disagree with abortion remove their money from Planned Parenthood funding? Those who oppose war withdraw their money from funding the Pentagon? After all - fair IS fair.....

    LL
  • BeaElliott
    Sure you can LL - You first! :)
  • Father_Time
    Uh no. We are 4th among nations unless healthcare is added to the statistic and then we are sixth in standard of living statistics.

    I actually lived in Europe for a decade. Not in some American community either. Irrelevant though, Since these statistics are widely known and easily researched. We are listed higher than Ireland.
  • DLS
    "And can those who disagree with abortion remove their money from Planned Parenthood funding? Those who oppose war withdraw their money from funding the Pentagon? After all - fair IS fair....."

    NOTE:

    It has customarily been the Right that has expressed favor for "earmarking" of expenditures by taxpayers, when discussing the frequent behavior by government (notably, Washington) in defiance of what the people want.
  • DLS
    "Our standard of living is much higher than just about any country in Europe"

    Europe has seen improvements since a generation ago, when everything was not only more expensive there but often old and often too small! (Back then, Motel 6 was a palace by European standards.)

    While Europe has climbed, it still has an inferior economic system and worse unemployment normally.

    No, we don't want much higher taxes and government interventionism (or nearly all retirement income coming from government, etc., as in European countries, something it won't be able to sustain in its current form). Other nations also have higher TB or HIV infection rates, so should we seek these, too?
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